Response to Help-has my SARN caught them out!

I've inserted my comments into a copy of your post to retain context...

To recap - B&W claim I owe them 31K - here are my findings from SARN

Monies owed when I handed keys back 65,689.07 –
the 31K is interest of 10K (took them 2 years to sell as they kept rejecting better offers!),
fees of 3K,
loss on sale 21K less my endowment they cashed in of 3K.

They could have sold the property for 7K more, two months after repossession but from the docs I received when I SARNed them, they turned this and subsequent higher offers down.

You should go to the Repossession section and read the page titled: “One reader's findings after serving SARNs on Abbey National” or click on http://www.home- repo.org/reposses/sarnresponse.htm where you will find the comments of a reader who discovered similar nonsense after serving two SARNs on Grabby National. Note the reference and link her comments to the Skipton v Stott case.

Notes on the offers say things like the purchaser (at 52K) was renting property on same street and was ready to buy. Agents were obviously amazed that B&W turned him down as there are exclamation marks and advice to sell.

Excellent evidence to use against them if they ever take you to court!

On this same form where it has "Loss details/recovery action" it says:

Current debt      66,279
indemnity         13,500
break even value  52,779

Based on this, their loss would have been a measly 779pounds but they still didn't accept!!!

This brings me to the next point - when I took out the mortgage for 65,250 - B&W advanced 51,750 and a guarantee was given by Sun Alliance for the remaining 13,500. I paid a one-time fee of 607.50 for this.

(My endowment was also with Sun Alliance (paid mthly) which I presume is something different??)

Yes, your endowment was the method by which you would have been told you would probably been able to repay the amount you originally borrowed. In fact, it probably wouldn’t have repaid it.

I have asked B&W 3 times for copy of MIG but they keep refusing and there is nothing in SARN docs showing whether they got anything back from Sun Alliance other than the 3K from cashing in the endowment.

Where do I stand on this 13,500?

You may owe it, you may not. If the MIG was mis-sold to you or if it was mis-represented as something that would protect you from claims/bills as a result of being unable to continue the mortgage then you should not have to pay it – but you’d only need to argue this if it came to court.

If the £13,500 would have not been claimed if the house had been sold at a more appropriate price – as it appears it should have been – then you should not have to pay it – but you’d only need to argue this if it came to court.

If the last payment on the mortgage was made more than six years ago, the MIG is beyond the six year limitation period, which does apply to the MIG element (because it is a “debt simple” so far as I know)

Sun Alliance have never come after me for this and don't appear to have gone after B&W either?

They are coming to you through B and W. It’s called subrogation. (However, we’ve seen some evidence that lenders do not pass on the MIG element of shortfall settlements to insurers.)

If I am not responsible for the 13,500 then according to my belief I don't owe B&W anything as it was their own stupid fault that they didn't sell a month after repossession for a much higher price. They let the property sit there and rot for two years which seems daft to me!

Agreed.

Please advise me on where I stand with this indemnity. Oh, on one of their "compliance notes" it states BandW Loss 16648.78 and MIG loss 18065.01. If B&W had sold at 52K, there would have been no interest of 10K plus 7K more from the sale so the BandW loss would have been 0.00.

Agreed.

Another doc says Actual Loss 32,796.98 broken down as Normal Loss 14631.97 and Claim 18065.01? How do I treat this indemnity/claim/MIG loss?

Ignore it. You will only have to “do” anything about it if the lender takes you to court and if any of the conditions I mentioned above do not apply.

I really want to go on with this fight especially if B&W aren't responsible for this 13.5K and it has been written off. Sorry about the length of this msg but hope it makes some sense.

Good for you. Fighters usually win.

Let me clarify something… you keep asking how you should deal with things. My suggestion for dealing with things is to find out as much as you can about the lender’s claim, try to find the holes in the claim and then sit back and wait for the lender to make the moves.

You need to pre-equip yourself with info about the quality of the lender’s claim though, partly so that you can feel easier while you sit back and call the lender’s bluff and partly so that if the lender does sue you, you are on top of preparing your defence.

Given that lenders are not usually anxious to give you much info, you have to serve a SARN to find out as much as you can. The only way of finding out more than a SARN can give you is to use Disclosure, but you can only use Disclosure once the lender has begun to sue you.

The one thing you do not want to do, is take the fight into the lender’s territory. You absolutely do not want to write back and say:
“You guys messed up.”

Why? Because they will say:
“You’re right. OK, we’ll lop £20,000 off the amount you owe us but you still owe us £10,000 (or whatever).”

So… don’t give them the opportunity.

If you want to know how write to lenders, see the Readers’ Shortfall Letters page in the Repossession section.

Will the lender sue you? Who knows? As you already know from carefully reading the site… the lender will generally only sue you if you have assets or a PAYE income or if you have left a papertrail of applications for loans, hire purchase or mobile phones.

Lee

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