birth of a survival gruop

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is anyone else here building a group for future survival? we have started witha few local people who are interested in Y2K. presently we are deciding on what supplies to stock up on. we all have bug-out bags and an area to assemble at if it all rolls over. we are just now learning basic-survival skills, but in the coming months plan to work on small-unit tactics. we arent a militia just people who plan to disappear for awhile at the end of '99 or whenever BIG problems arise. i would like to know if anyone else here is planning the same thing and what are the pitfalls you are encountering. thanks for your time.

-- michael miller (yoaders@aol.com), January 05, 1998

Answers

my apologies to people replying to my question here. obviously all the pressure of preparing for the coming collapse has left me temporarily..."gruop-impaired". i really can spell "group" correctly!

-- michael miller (yoaders@aol.com), January 05, 1998.

it is encouraging to learn that others are considering such logical survival tactics. i am currently working with several friends to prepare in a similar fashion as miller. aside from minor ridicule by unconcerned citizens, preparations are going well. we would appreciate a list of supplies from miller to compare to our own.

-- C. B. Cross (crosscb@okstate.edu), January 09, 1998.

In reply to Mr. cross, we are still refining our "bug-out bags" right now, and will work more on group supplies after that is accomplished. for my own families provisions...20 gallons of treated water in sealed, hard-plastic 5-gal jugs(more on the way)...50 lbs of rice in plastic container...2 large cases of toilet paper...30 boxes of tri-ox fuel compound...small home-built stove to use tri-ox, wood, charcoal...'100 feet of rope...assorted food such as jerky, ramen noodles, campbells soup, powdered milk, vitamins and hard candy...150$ in pre-1964 u.s. silver coins...10,000 rounds of .22 lr ammo(for use and barter)...mag-lite flashlights...wiggy sleeping bags(used and the best)...10 large boxes of strike-anywhere matches...3 gallons of un-scented chlorox bleach...large med-kit(always expanding). as for group supplies, we are thinking of items that arent of use to any one, single person in the group. items will include a ham radio(base station and antenna)...long-term nitro-pack bulk food...ammo for accepted group main battle weapon(for barter or use)...large surplus "C&C" tent...advanced medical supplies...chainsaw, axes, picks, etc... all of the above items are purchased by group vote and will remain with the members of the group who stay. if you, me and 4 other people in the group all contribute 100$ for purchases and i decide to leave the group or am kicked out...the equiptment that was bought will stay with the remaining members. this is a fair policy as long as you are informed about it before your admission into the group. it is also an effective way to discourage people from leaving the group for stupid reasons. if i have a large monetary investment in the supplies used by the group, there is MUCH less of a chance that i will treat the group as a "hobby". Mr.cross, please post here what you are doing about you teams supplies. thank you and good luck in 2000. michael

-- michael miller (yoaders@aol.com), January 10, 1998.

Can I inflict some of my own opinions here on the kits and storage? Glad to see you started with water. With water you need a container that is lightproof and not gas permiable. I like the 6 gallon aluminized mylar bags with a tapper spout. They are put in a box which allows them to hold only 5 gallons, that way if it freezes only the box and not the bag will rupture. They are a lot easier to carry than a 5 gallon bottle, stack nicely, and can be carried by two children (side handles). You can punch out the red circle and convert it into a port-a-potty with a heavy gauge trash sack and disinfectant.

On disinfectant, grocery store liquid bleach keeps losing it's concentration over time. It might be 5% today, what will it be in 1/1/2000? I suggest getting swimming pool crytals, the ones that are strictly pure hypochlorite, no anti-fungal, or clarifying aluminum compounds. That way you can make your own bleach when you need it (in a WELL ventilated area).

On rice, I assume that is white rice, as brown rice spoils faster, that's why I like wheat, infinate lifespan. Again, the rice is okay now, how will it be in 2 years?

If you want to spend some nickels call my BBS (314)821-2815, at 14.4bps, I support batch zmodem x-fer and have LOTS of survivalist files, just TAG the ones you want and download at logoff.

A Internet site with good survival info (ingore the megs of religious nitpicking) is www.garynorth.com no survial files but some very informative postings.

Be sure to add some sharpeners for those tools you're getting. On the soup, think weight and space. Go for items that are dried unless your fluid requirements are calculated on the wet packaged can goods. You'll get more bang from your weight/space buck with dried and a good portable water filter like the Katadyn(sp?). The only thing about the Katadyn is that if you drop it, you crack the ceramic element, so get a spare element.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@primary.net), January 15, 1998.


I have been searching for "strike anywhere" matches, without success. Where do you find them in large boxes? Are they waterproof only? (I have seen small boxes of strike anywhere waterproof).

Thanks.

-- Ruth Anna Minch (rminch@cabq.gov), January 16, 1998.



here in oregon, strike-anywhere matches are in most grocery stores. the boxes i get contain 250 large wooden matches. we spray these matches with hair-spray to help waterproof them. after that they go back into the box along with a large piece of folded sandpaper. then the whole sealed box is dipped in to hot wax, pulled out and allowed to cool. after the above preparations, these matches could go into the shower with you and still be fine. i know that it sounds like alot of work, but if you ever need them you will be glad you did it. good luck. yoaders in oregon

-- michael miller (yoaders@aol.com), January 17, 1998.

If you assume even a relatively mild upset of finance, utilities, infrastructure, etc, I hope you're going to have more than $150 in cash. With disruptions of this nature inflation (probably severe) is a given. Look at Asia.

-- Laurie Smith (Laurie@free-market.net), February 08, 1998.

I am interested in forming a Y2K survival community. All my friends and relatives are in denial. If you live near Lake Zurich, IL and are seriously planning your survival stragety, let me hear from you. There is strength in numbers, and we must move quickly.

-- Bob Randall (ROBERRRT@worldnet.att.net), March 13, 1998.

In reference to comments about inflation vs. deflation: there is a major difference between economic dynamics WITH computers vs. WITHOUT computers. Inflation has attended a number of past and present debacles (mostly caused by politicians, rather than markets) because the computers have been there to "print" the money---as much money as necessary. Given that the Millenium Bug will disable the ability of computers to "print" electronic forms of money, inflation will be limited to the physical printing of currency---which is constrained by capacity limitations at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing as well as its supplier of currency-grade paper [see Gary North's "Remnant Review" newsletter]. The obverse side of the issue is that enormous amounts of electronically-denominated wealth---in the form of stocks, bonds and money market instruments---will be destroyed, possibly for a long time; maybe forever. It is highly probable that physical currency will increase in value after January 1, 2000 due to the rising demand for a recognized medium of exchange, and the sudden contraction in wealth.

-- Bob Randall (ROBERRRT@worldnet.att.net), March 13, 1998.

I am interested in forming a Y2K survival community. I have the same problem that many have: all my friends and relatives are in denial. If you live near Warsaw, Indiana and are seriously planning your survival stragety, let me hear from you. I live further north, but would like to find a place around Warsaw. Time is of the essence - we have to act quickly.

-- Gwen Hari (h_gwen@hotmail.com), April 07, 1998.


As far as a local survival group, I haven't found anyone who thinkgs this will be very serious. But as far as a virtual survival group, on the Internet, I know of one (besides this really good forum)

*********************************************************** Are you aware of the Year 2000 problem? We all need to be. *********************************************************** Join the email list: y2k-homestead-request@MyList.net (type subscribe in the body of the message)

It's low volume and shares news sightings as well as survival links, information on storing food and other things, checklists, homesteading tips and Y2K concerns.

BooBear

-- BooBear (bear456@rocketmail.com), May 03, 1998.


Bugging Out!! I have read about bugout kits and have seen this in the net to American Survivalist Magazine. However, nowhere have I seen any descriptions about where people plan to bug out "TO". Living in a rural area, I have to tell you that we are not interested in having a bunch of "bug out" survivalists show up on our doorstep. Now if you own property here and you are coming in for a retreat, that's different. But if you are squatters, who are bugging out from some place else, you might find that the reception you get in the "bug out area" is worse than you get in the place that you came from. Moral of this story: If you are planning on bugging out from an urban or bedroom urban area, take some time to get to know the people in the bug out area. Open a bank account. Buy some property, join a church, do all the things that you need to do to be come known in the community even though you are not living there regularly. This is very important, and often overlooked in the discussion of bugging out. Besides if things get as bad as most buger outs think, there may be travel restriction to those who have to proof that they live there. Getting your driver's licence changed to your new address in the bug out area, or at least being able to show proof of ownership of property(like with a deed) might be necessary to allow you through, since there may be a mass migration away from the urban centers, and the guv(local, state, national) is going to try to prevent that. I would figure that if nothing else the locals would try to prevent move ins. Just a thought GK

-- Glenna Kamoroff (kamoroff@hotmail.com), May 03, 1998.

I am a computer professional living in Sydney, Australia. I am sold up and ready to go, but most everyone I talk to in deep denial (even friends and family). I am considering moving *anywhere* in Oz, and I hope my wife and kids will come to me. Are there any others who would like to contact me for mutual help. I have a mixed bag of skills -- computer networks, amateur radio, advanced first aid, camping, survival and self-defence. If you are in Australia, and you are worried about the next few years and are ready to do something now, please contact me immediately.

-- David Harvey (Davo@hydra.com.au), May 14, 1998.

A (far too small, imho) group of my friends and I here in Oregon are beginning to start planning for real to get out of town and off to elsewhere in the country (we have a mailing list for ourselves on this). My question regarding this topic is: Are there any existing FAQs, Checklists, HOWTOs, etc. online that give a fair sense of the sorts of decisions to be made, items to be obtained, etc?

-- President b!X (baby-x@geekforce.org), May 16, 1998.

If you want to learn about "bugout kits" (stuff to tide you over for 72 hours while you head for your established retreat, take a look at Frugal Squirrel's website: http://www.netside.com/~lcoble/ This guy has links to numerour Survival sites, and for five bucks or less (you buy a book) he will email you a password to access to a VAST library of text files full of accumulated text information. (The $5 helps pay for the cost of the system used to store the info.) This is the best site of its type anywhere. Expect to use reams of paper once you start grabbing the info for printout/ I also suggest stopring the files themselves on diskette. "Squirrel" is also busy putting it all on CD-ROM, but it isn't available yet, I think.

-- David Harvey (Davo@hydra.com.au), May 16, 1998.


Michael, We here in N. Cen. AR are considering the same thing as you and (it appears) a lot of other folks are getting ready to do.. When I first considered this, the first thought that struck me was just who did I want in that group. If we are going to survive this thing and we will, it will require the right people in the right place doing the right things. We are talking about survival not companionship. Some of your best friend may not be the best for your group. Sounds very harsh and it is. I have been in a survival situation once with friends and I don't ever want to be put in that spot again. I have read with great interest some of the comments others have sent you already and it sure sounds like good advise so far. My training said WATER first then food, good tools, planning, praying and be ready to improvise. Best of luck to you and your group. Also, anyone in N. Cen Ar needing help or willing to give help, let me know. We will all be in this together and most of us will make it. God speed and don't look back. Joe B.

-- Joe Baggs (baggsj@usa.net), May 17, 1998.

Sorry, if you have tried to reach me without success. I have changed Internet Service Providers. Please respond to me at vk2dmh@rivernet.com.au ... THANKS.

-- David Harvey (vk2dmh@rivernet.com.au), June 09, 1998.

I know this sounds funny, but me and my three friends (who are still in high school) have started our own group in San Antonio, TX. The thing is, we're more training to be a tactical squadron that a survival team. We figure that if you can beat someone down, then you can teke their stuff and thus live. Along with the 300 pounds (each)of rice, beans, corn, and flour we plan to buy, we are buying all the survival stuf listed above and then some. Most importantly, we've been collecting our tactical gear for sometime now. BDUs, Alice packs, machetes, you name it.

-- Jose Segura (josesegura@hotmail.com), September 22, 1998.

No Jose, it doesn't sound funny at all. It sounds like you're going to get shot by some homeowner.

-- NotFunny (aiming@you.com), September 23, 1998.

Jose- two words-.... DUMB MOVE!!

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), September 23, 1998.

Jose

For somebody who is "training to be a tactical squadron" you show a remarkable lack of good tactics. Even the most lowly fresh from boot camp dipsh*t should understand that you never telegraph your plans. You and your other 'pimple faced commandos' may be in for a real surprise when you engage your first 'victim'.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), September 23, 1998.


Jose

If you are sufficiently far along in your "training" you will have developped an understanding of the "-2" function, that of intelligence. A critical piece of inteligence you need is contained in "Tom's Take" in another referenced thread. read it and especially read from where he starts talking about "you and your 11 VietNam Buddies". If you have any doubt about the validity of the squirrels abilities, read the entries in "What about you" in this forum. You will find that an inordinate number of us are either : 1) gun hobbyists, 2) ex-military (and presumably trained to the point of sleeping-eating-breathing tactically when in indian country, which will describe everywhere in a bit), 3) retired or active law enforcement.

I would strongly encourage you to re-evaluate your "plan" and learn true survival skills instead of E & E and small unit tactics, else wise, you won't make it to the year 2001.

Put quite simply, anyone who thinks that this dumpy wussy looking homeowner is going to quietly give up what I have worked to acumulate is in for a very loud, and shortlived shock. Their last thought will be the act of identifying the noise as that of a Glock being racked back for chambering.

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), September 23, 1998.


Micheal, how do you plan to *move* all that stuff?

If I were in your shoes, I'd seriously consider pre-positioning the bulk of your stash just in case you have to hoof the last 15-20 miles to your assembly point. (It would help if one of the members of your group *owns* the land containing said assembly point, too.)

I've always considered a "bug-out bag" something you can carry fairly easily. My son & I did an overnight with his Cub Scout den on a moderate section of the App. Trail this spring -- 7 miles in, 7 out. I had 30-some pounds on my back, his was 20-some. We did OK, but that was about as much as I'd want to carry and he felt the same way. You're probably in better shape, but I suspect that 50 pounds would be about the limit.

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), September 23, 1998.


Interesting, isn't it, to read what people were thinking almost a year and a half ago.

Does anyone know what a wiggy sleeping bag is? I've never heard of it.

While we're doing surveys on what you did last weekend, we might consider whether our bug-out bags are presently all they should be.

I go along with having both the bug-out bag and Greybear's SUE bag.

I think that we'll all agree that it is not enough to purchase & own to be prepared - you must have your new possessions properly stored and ready.

By the way, Ingles' has recently begun carrying large boxes of strike anywhere Fire Chief matches.

-- GA Russell (ga.russell@usa.net), June 22, 1999.


You want an excellent book on "Y2K survival tactics"? Buy a copy of James Wesley Rawles' "Patriot: Surviving the Coming Collapse", (1998) It's basically a 350-page group-survival manual dressed up as a novel. Great for describing the group dynamics during extremely stressful and violent situations. Best "y2k novel" I've read (only Y2K isn't mentioned once).

This is not your typical survival novel - appendicies are available ON-LINE!! (www.teleport.com/~ammon/gn/sp1.htm)

-- Bill (Chicago519@aol.com), June 22, 1999.


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