Aerobic 07 water treatment product : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I read of a person on this board offering a product for safe and long term storage of water called Aerobic 07. I have never heard of this product and am leary of sending a M.O. or personal check to a person and not a company name. Any information on this product would be appreciated. What if they cash the check and send no product? Thanks

-- Careful shopper (, October 01, 1998


You're correct about being wary of ANYTHING on the internet!! However, sending money for nutritional products to Roy Cave is as safe as you'll get. I've done business with Vitalogic Research and you'll be fine. But... you can always have him send your order C.O.D. for about $5.00 extra!

-- Merle (, October 01, 1998.

This stuff would be great if it really worked. Does anyone have experience storing water for over 6 months with a stabilized oxygen product, successfully?


-- E. Coli (, October 01, 1998.

After studying an aerobic (stabilized) oxygen dealer's site and various forum postings, in response to an inquiry from this poster, Wallace I. Sampson of the National Council Against Health Fraud wrote: ------ Can someone tell me that if I were to store water for a disaster that I should use something sold on the internet, by a person or company without a permanent site, without proof, and that will not divulge the contents of the material?

I would like a list of people who will buy into this so I can sell them my next product - of course I have not decided yet what it will be, or for what use, but I am working on it and need advance capital for my research. Put my address up and I will wait for the money to roll in. Of course, I would not call the donors fools, because that might reflect badly on my image (because I used too strong language.) ------ Search the National Council Against Health Fraud site: ------ Of its alleged health properties, Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch wrote: ------ Claims that the product has health benefits by increasing the amount of oxygen in the blood are absurd. Blood levels stay within a narrow range and are modifiable within seconds by how people breathe. Oxygen taken by mouth has no effect on blood oxygen level, and even if it could, the amount would be too small to do anything. ------ For information on other questionable products, see: ------ Despite diligent searching, not just on my part but also on the parts of at least a dozen experts consulted (inluding principals at the American Society of Microbiologists), nobody unearthed a controlled, double-blind, scientific study in a respected journal to support the claims of the manufacturer and dealers, and the dealer in question was unable to provide a citation. The substance has been around, apparently, since the mid-1980s; it is a safe assumption that if there were any benefits provided by this substance the manufacturer would be more famous than Bill Gates. This is not to say that the product does not work; it is to say that there is no reliable proof that it does. A thousand anecdotes do not a reliable study make.

If you have further questions about this or any other health product, the National Council Against Health Fraud and Quackwatch, would be very happy to answer your questions at the URLs above.



-- Aitch (, October 01, 1998.

This is suspiciously off-topic. I'm interested in whether anyone has any experience storing water with any one of the many stabilized oxygen products on the market. I'm not interested in hearing more authoritarian blather from some pharmaceutical cartel front organization. We who have USED oxygen therapy KNOW that it works. For those of you unwilling to let pharmcos do your thinking for you, read OXYGEN THERAPY by Ed McCabe (Ed, btw, is being held on "tax evasion" charges, and has undergone extensive "diesel therapy" - i.e., he's been flown from prison to prison on CONAIR, in shackles, for weeks, and thrown in the hole for months without cause. This is one of the sweetest guys you could hope to meet, and they are torturing him and trying to get him to sign papers without access to legal counsel; READ HIS BOOK before the govt. burns it).

Let me spell it out for all you who are confused by this treatment-of-choice vitriol: the pharmaceutical companies RUN CONGRESS. Nobody gives more money than they do. They RUN influential DOCTORS, who are given "gifts" that would put Monica to shame for peddling the pill of the hour. Same goes for the FDA - their execs approve drugs and food additives IN CONTRADICTION TO THE REPORTS OF THEIR OWN EXPERTS, then go to work months later for the same companies that made billions off the drug they approved. Why are you hearing scare stories about the "dangers of herbs?" PHARMCO payola. Why do they continually attempt to regulate such "dangerous" herbs and supplements as vitamin C and Chamomile? Simple: if they can REGULATE it, they can PROFIT from it, and keep it from competing with their prescription drugs by making it unaffordable. They CAN'T SLAP A PATENT on natural herbs and vitamins, (or oxygen) AND THAT'S WHY THEY FEAR THEM, that, and THEY WORK, by strengthening the body's natural defenses, not substituting for, and thereby weakening them (like a crutch weakens the leg it is "treating" - the mode of action of most prescriptions). They are equally afraid of you asserting your right to treat yourself as you see fit, so they "donate" billions to media and "education" to shape your perception of health and disease. Meanwhile, iatrogenic (lit. "caused by doctors") disease kills TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE A YEAR, primarily from the unmanagable interactions of the chemical soup of pills they are pushing at us. And they have the audacity to warn that 4 people died after taking ephedra last year - people who were in all probability taking some synthetic, symptom-supressing, disease-causing prescription as well! Just do a little research on the FDA's bullying of the natural foods and supplements industry - breaking down clinic doors with guns drawn, confiscating inventories of vitamin C - it's Wacoesque!

I know from experience that oxygen therapy can cure chronic, intractable disease (disease proclaimed "hopeless" by the pathetic barbers and pill-pushers that are paid so handsomely to supress anything the pharmcos can't squeeze a profit from). If you are a doctor and object to this, I'm sorry; you may be ethical, but by lack of vigilance or lack of effort, you have allowed the rotten apples to squander the moral authority of your profession. If you aren't energetically opposing the AMA/FDA/PHARMCO effort to crush and assimilate the natural foods industry, you are complicit. Educate yourself. If you doubt oxygen works, read OXYGEN THERAPY by Ed McCabe, do a search on "oxygen therapy", read some testimonials, learn how to use it, and TRY it. There are also some fine oxy therapy clinics here and there, thought they are shut down by jackbooted thugs periodically (if they don't like being called that, they shouldn't wear the damn things, much less go kicking in the wrong doors with them). A lot of people are DYING from diseases that could be successfully treated with oxygen, while we let lust for profit rule the day.

My question is whether anyone has achieved success, or failure, trying to use stabilized oxygen products for WATER STORAGE. I need information about this subject, and don't care to hear any hot air from self-styled "quackbusters" who are enemies of American health-freedom. Anyone with some EXPERIENCE?


-- E. Coli (, October 01, 1998.

I've seen testimonials on just about any topic you could name, very convincing ones from people who have been 'cured' from cancer by latetrile, grapes, krebiozen... the ones I know about are dead now. No 'testimonial' should convince anyone that 'stabilized oxygen', whatever that is, is good for anything. The snake oil salesmen of a century ago were, I'm sure, equally convincing and I hope you don't treat yourself with snake oil when you've got pneumonia! Even you take penicillin when you need it, don't you? The scientific method has given us that, give it some credit. Count me among those who wants to see a scientific explanation of what it is, how it works, and supporting studies proving its efficacy in double-blind trials.

As a libertarian I don't think the state should be in the business of protecting people from their own folly, so if you want 'stabilized oxygen', laetrile, or whatever, I'm all for letting you have it. Just don't fool yourself about what you're getting.

-- E.N. Taylor MD (, October 01, 1998.

I'm the guy getting shot at here, simply because I don't operate in a politically correct fashion. I've been using and selling Aerobic '07' for over 20 years, and until one ridiculous post in response to a legitimate question, I've never had anything but positive reports from users of this outstanding product.

I don't rely on sales of nutritional or healthful living products for my sustenance, so it's of little concern to me whether I sell anything or not. My profession is "ambassador at large for Christ" and I pay expenses by selling nutritional supplements. The Lord is the supplier of my needs and it's to Him that I look for my needs to be supplied.

Regarding Aerobic '07', let me say that I'm simply a wholesale/retail distributor and do NOT manufacture this product. In order to keep within the law, (and not get even close to breaking it), I make no claims for the therepeutic benefits reported by many thousands of satisfied users of this product for over 25 years.

As our forum friend has stated, the book "Oxygen Therapies" by Ed McCabe is a classic work on the thereapeutic uses of stabilized oxygen and other forms of oxygen by alternative physicians. These, as well as their patients, have come to realize that good health cannot be had by drugging, cutting, and burning, but only by taking responsibility for ones own health and giving the body life-promoting food, drink, and supplementation.

Although never advertised, there are Medical Doctors and Naturopaths all across America quietly using and prescribing Aerobic '07' for a variety of disease symptoms, as well as treating their patients in clinical settings for lung disease and big C.

I never advertise the many benefits that are reported by customers or by recovered patients, simply because this is considered 'anecdotal' and unreliable information. You see, until a product qualifies as a candidate for pharmaceutical patent, and undergoes millions of dollars in controlled studies and lab testing, it is considered unproven, and therefore possibly unsafe and unreliable by the powers that keep this country dependant upon doctors and drugs for its very life.

I have in my possession dozens of independant lab reports and other scientific information on the safety and effectiveness of Aerobic '07', but this is reserved only for physicians who are seriously considering using the product in their practice. I do NOT provide this information to anyone as sales promotion, and especially not to internet skeptics!

I have never had reason (until now) to consider storing water for even 6 months, but the manufacturer's chemist (as well as their literature) states that one ounce of Aerobic '07' will purify water for a period of 5 years, and this information is what I provide to my customers.

As far as being wary of sending money to individuals, rather than to a company, I'd feel the same way! I have no web page simply because I'm not interested in making money or taking my time updating materials. I sell Aerobic '07' for less than any dealer in the country, and if I have to put procedures in place just to satisfy the skeptics, then they are free to shop at any good health food store, where Aerobic '07' sells for about twice the price.

Water can be purified in many inexpensive ways, such as boiling, iodine, household bleach, etc. but if you want to be sure that disease producing pathogens are controlled, and that your bacteriacide, fungicide, virucide is going to be effective when needed, then don't skrimp on cost. Get a product that's safe, effective, and so stable that when properly stored, it has no shelf life limit whatsoever.

-- Roy Cave (, October 01, 1998.

Thanks Roy, well put, and you answered my question. I admire your restraint with the drug 'em and cut 'em crowd.

As for scientific method and penicillin, Mr. Taylor, I am a student of the philosophy of science, so I'm familiar with the limitations of the scientific method, and it's abuse as a tool of commerce and politics. Penicillin is a great advance - or was; it's use, and the use of other antibiotics, has bred hardier bacteria, resistant to all of our current antibiotic arsenal. Inventing new antibiotics is not a sustainable solution; one must hypothesize the endless creation of newer and stronger antibiotics. Antibiotics also strip from the gut the "friendly bacteria" essential to digestion and the manufacture of nutrients. When these are displaced, the immune system is compromised - resulting in steady sales of symptom-suppressing patent medicines for colds, flu... In any case, when the FDA is literally breaking down doors to intimidate alternative health care practitioners, your mudslinging takes on a new significance, does it not? I don't need a money-grubbing high priest telling me I can or can't take this or that plant or vitamin that has proven effectiveness for me. If you weren't standing behind a venal power-grab, I might be more flexible. But as it is, you can take you double-blind, pharmaceutical-company-funded studies and implant them rectally. If y'all want war...


-- E. Coli (, October 02, 1998.

Now, now E., if you would take the trouble to read my post, you will find that I have slung no mud, and that as a Libertarian, as I said, I agree with you on all your freedom issues. It is not the business of government to tell people what they can or can't do with their lives and their dollars. What I said was, the evidence isn't here. And it isn't.

-- Ned (, October 02, 1998.

Here I am again... incidentally, there are plenty of treatments that wouldn't seem to offer much profit to anyone that do get proper trials - Vitamin E for the prevention of coronary artery disease, for example, for which the evidence is quite good.

-- Ned (, October 02, 1998.

Funny you should mention vitamin E. Johnathan Wright's (MD/ND)Clinic in Seattle, Washington, was raided at gunpoint by FDA/SWAT/local Sheriff. Over a dozen agents kicked in an unlocked door, POINTED their loaded guns at the receptionist and otherwise bullied the employees, yanked the phone cords out of the walls (???), confiscated the entire inventory of his pharmacy, took computers - basically his business - and dragged him away. The charge: using an organic form of vitamin E imported from Europe, that contained no preservatives. That's it. FDA proclaims that those with sensitivity to the preservatives can't have the treatment that they require, and the decision to forgo those preservatives cannot be trusted to the individual and his chosen medical caregiver. Johnathan Wright has an outstanding record, and he's a leader in the world of natural medicine. His business was hammered, AS AN EXAMPLE to anyone who dares cross the line. The FDA has now done this to DOZENS of health practitioners, clinics and other businesses; it's a matter of public record. Sure, Echinacea has been proven in double-binds too, as has St. John's Wort and many others - but these have fought tooth and nail for acceptance years AFTER being proven in the lab, and are still being maligned by establishment pharmco-funded/allopathic medicine. IT IS PRECISELY BECAUSE NUTRITIONAL SUPPLEMENTS ARE NOW PROVEN THAT THE ESTABLISHMENT FEARS THEM AND IS DETERMINED TO CONTROL THEM AND PROFIT FROM THEM. The FDA/AMA has been trying to make every kind of nutritional supplement available by prescription only, BECAUSE THERE ARE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BE MADE. It's taken a massive, expensive, grass-roots signature campaign to preserve the right to herbs and vitamins for all Americans, but the money-grubbing wolves just keep trying! It's a war between pharmcos and nutritional supplement makers. It's a war by plutocrats against the Constitution of the United States and the American people, and when you make shallow excuses for them, you are complicit, by ignorance or design.


-- E. Coli (, October 02, 1998.

Update on the exception of vitamin E to the pharmco/allopathic war on herbs and vitamins: the main manufacturer is ADM, a monsterous mega-conglomerate agribusiness that has been waging war on the family farmer for decades. Because the best source is soybeans, they have a huge interest in pushing vitamin E. And they do. If the AMA now touts it, and M.D.s now prescribe it, that's why. Look at all the studies that show marijuana is an effective medicine - they are studiously ignored. Why? Because a weed that YOU can grow yourself, anywhere, can't be allowed to compete with a chemical that THEY can patent and extract for the same purpose. They'd charge us for every breath of clean air, making us pay an M.D. for an oxygen/nitrogen Rx, if they could. And if their unsustainable farming and manufacturing processes continue to poison the environment, they may soon get the opportunity.

As Joel Gray said before the Nazis shut down his Cabaret, "Money makes the world go around..."


-- E. Coli (, October 05, 1998.

Re: Dr. Nash's response, "You take penicillin, don't you?" No, Doctor, I do not, having been given it so many times as a child and young adult by the old "Here's an antibiotic, that'll help" school that I not only developed an allergy but a range of other health concerns. I am a registered nurse and agree with you completely on the need for a physiological explanation and standardized testing - I don't even know or care about this Aerobic 07 since I use bleach and have a filter for when that runs out. What concerns me is that "traditional" and "alternative" practitioners are so knee-jerk reactive to each other that all energy is spent slamming each other, with no opportunity to learn from each other. Dr., there HAVE been people who defeated cancer and other diseases by what is called "alternative" methods. Please, if our goal is to help people - closing our eyes and waving our fists is not the answer.

-- Melissa (, October 05, 1998.

Gosh, E., I'm part of a conspiracy and didn't even know it. Kinda chokes me up inside. But haven't we shot ourselves in the foot here? After all, we can make a whole lot more money off a heart attack (CCU at thousands a day, coronary artery bypass surgery at $50,000, rtPA at $2000 a dose) than off a few measly bottles of Vitamin E. Shocking lack of foresight. If I belonged to the AMA, I'd have to find my representative and give him a good talking-to.

I believe it was GK Chesterton who said that when people stop believing in God, the problem isn't that they believe in nothing, it's that they'll believe in anything. The same thing happens when people abandon the scientific method. My opinion.

-- Dr. Ned Taylor (, October 05, 1998.


The reason that we have so many drug resistant strains is because every whinny crybaby that ever had a cold wanted "some pills to help." The doctors share the blame of course, they did not have enough balls to risk losing a patient and say "This will not do you any good."

-- Uncle Deedah (, October 05, 1998.

Sigh, the lack of knowledge about antibiotics and their most common uses is really shocking. The tremendous growth in resistant bacteria cannot be explained by human dosages, these dosages usually result in the destruction of the bacterial colony. To breed resistant strains of bacteria requires low dosages of antibiotics constantly present in a large population of hosts. Guess what! That is exactly the way we feed antibiotics to livestock. As a preventative for low level infections it works pretty well, and causes them to gain weight faster.

BTW if you want real information about vitamins and no BS look up the recommended amounts for hogs as per the Dept. of Agriculture. They have no axe to grind for anyone, and look only at maximum weight gain for the animal up to about human size (220 lbs or so - slaughtering size) i.e. the most healthy animal - not one who just shows no overt sign of disease. Hmm, aside from C - which most mammals can make in their tissues - but man cannot - seems the dosages are a lot higher than the AMA says are right. Kinda funny, esp. when you remember the hog is very similar to man in all its body tissues - shucks we steal their heart valves to use for our own!

-- Paul Davis (, October 06, 1998.

Dr. Taylor: Yes, you are part of a "conspiracy." Doctors conspire to promote their interests, and the interests of the pharmaceutical companies that they represent. Nothing mysterious about it. What foundations support med schools? Any pharmco money there? How many MDs own pharmco stock? How many med schools teach nutrition? - most still have no classes in nutrition. None! It's almost all drug-and-cut, "heroic" medicine, and there were NO nutrition classes in med schools until a few years ago. We do need heros now and then, but among physicians we need a hundred good citizens for ever hero, that is, we need an emphasis on prevention, which includes diet. But where's the money in that? The medical establishment hasn't "shot itself in the foot" by accepting vitamin E, etc.. It has chewed off it's paw to get out of the trap it set for itself - it has coopted new findings in nutrition out of necessity, because it was losing credibility in the public eye. A decade ago, MDs were just as sarcastic about ANY kind of nutritional therapy as you are now about the excesses of pharmacology and the "conspiracy" of a BILLION dollar a year business. Are you telling me they're not in it for the money? Ordinary people are finding out as never before that medicine is big business, and that you should no more trust a physician than you should a mechanic. Some are in it for the love of the job, but most are venal. All are working within the constraints of a billion-dollar pharmaceutical cartel; it's control of the FDA and the AMA cannot be denied by any honest and informed researcher. Even it's proponents don't deny it's vast wealth and influence. Conspiracy? Semantics.

As for the scientific method: I'm all for it. And I'm all for Methodism, and the rythm method, and any other method you may wish to practice. Practice it freely. The trouble lies in kicking in people's doors for not practicing it in the way an elite priesthood dictates, or for practicing a competing method, no matter how efficacious. The scientific method is, like Carl Sagan described it, a "candle in the dark," the darkness being blind superstition. But it is very limited. It tells us nothing at all about places that have not yet been illuminated - yet irrational rationalists tell us that those of us who claim to have felt our way to solid and useful objects in that darkness must be suppressed. No one must venture into the darkness; we must be protected - for a fee. Indeed, many areas of the darkness are declared off-limits to our candle's light, a priori, because they are irrationally declared non-lightable -unworthy of the light- by the elite candle-priests (I suspect those areas are where the matches are). Societies are funded to expose and stamp out tiny candles in the hands of amateurs. Campaigns of ridicule are enjoined against those who promote feeling by touch as a method on par with seeing by eye. Choices are made as to where the candle should be taken next, and these choices are anything but rational: the mass-extinction of species, technologies of megadeath, and the poisoning of our water and air should tell us that. "Not our fault!" cry the candle-priests as they pocket their pharmco and military grant money...

Rationalism is only one modality of perception. Use it, but don't tell me what kind of tea I can and can't drink. Don't threaten my health care provider with guns and jail sentences because he won't submit to your unjust, venal and oppressive authority. Rail against oxygen therapy, but don't kill people by closing the clinics down; remember: a few decades ago, when you outlawed herbs the first time, you were recommending HEAVY METALS as therapy. That's your heritage, and it will be your legacy.

Science is a method, and can be a good argument, but I object to it's use as a license to kill. It's just not rational.


-- E. Coli (, October 06, 1998.

For anyone in Australia that managed to read/skip to the current bottom of this post - this product under the name of ION is available in Australia. You can contact me for details.

-- Mark Johnson (, October 06, 1998.

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