See the following article which appeared in today's Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/1007y2k.asp

My wife has a contact through her job who is a member of the National Guard. She gave him a copy of my Powerpoint presentation. There's a good chance I'll be giving a presentation to the guard. I'll keep everyone posted.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), October 07, 1998

Answers

Excellent. That one should get at least a few people their taking it seriously. Some very serious preparation (by the entire country) the next 14 months would go a long way towards helping.

Sounds like they do need to be educated just a bit on the whole date issue though, their services are very likely to be needed prior to midnight, 2000 eve.

Go Wisconsin!

David

-- David Hume (dh001@usa.net), October 07, 1998.

hey, anyone know how i could go about finding out for Ohio? Do we have a plan?

-- carrie (private@aol.com), October 07, 1998.

The chairman of the National Guard Association testified to the Bennett Y2K committee last Friday that all of the National Guards are developing contingency plans.

-- Buddy Y. (DC) (buddy@bellatlantic.net), October 07, 1998.

... And you don't want to be a part of them, if you can help it. A probable Y2K meltdown scenario is that the military will lock in the cities, rural communities will lock out the towns. Your best hope is to be part of a rural community.

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), October 07, 1998.

I forgot to mention that the National Guard's are also asking Congress for more money so that any Y2K activities will not impact their other responsibilities of being the regular Army's backup.

-- Buddy Y. (DC) (buddy@bellatlantic.net), October 07, 1998.

Steve, That article also mentioned that a large utility company is advising people to get generators. They are mobilizing the guard because they fear power and water shortages. This was a FRONT PAGE article, folks...in a big paper! A professor from the UW said "people may die." Scary Gary does not sound so scary anymore! Go Packers and Badgers!

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), October 07, 1998.

Steve:

Thanks very much for this post. As a fellow Wisconsinite, it's good to hear someone is taking this seriously. Honestly, I'm a little stunned, and will be thinking about this alot. I'm not sure if this is GOOD NEWS or BAD NEWS.

"Honey, I have good news, and bad news - The Guard is gearing up for Y2K."

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), October 07, 1998.

Steve, Whether you give your presentation to the guard or not, now that you have posted this info, I hope that you will yourself find out from the guard just what they are going to be doing...will it be to HELP people, or to become like Gestapo agents??? I understand the Canadian military is training and preparing to HELP people; this was on one of these Yourdon sites recently. They will be ready to move people (who need it) into shelters that are being kept warm and providing hot food with the use of generators, warm beds, etc. Too many people on this website keep predicting the U.S. military is going to be used against U.S. citizens. I prefer not to believe this!

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), October 07, 1998.

Holly:

I know plenty of guys in the National Guard - I work with them every day. They have mothers, and fathers, grandmas, and grandpas, and wives, and babies, and doggies and kitties, and houses with swing sets in the back yard. They live and work in my town. They're not Gestapo.

My family's home was destroyed by a tornado when I was a teenager, and the guard HELPED us. They patrolled the neighborhood to stop looters while we were sleeping at a friend's house. They were not Gestapo.

That's my real life experience.

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), October 07, 1998.

Comparisons of the Guard to the Gestapo are highly offensive. I also know many Guard members. I believe that they will be there to help. I'm much more concerned about the actions of the police force and the feds than the National Guard. However, if there are widespread power outages, the Guard can only do so much (which is true of the police and the feds as well, of course). They would provide generators for critical services and guard them, and distribute food and water, I imagine, but they would not be able to help most of those in need if the problems persist for any length of time.

The Milwaukee CBS news affiliate ran a response to the Journal story from a spokeswoman from Wisconsin Electric Power Company (WEPCO), which services Southeastern Wisconsin (the Journal article quoted an attorney for a Madison-based utility). She said, in effect, that the story was nonsense. WEPCO has been working on this since 1995, and has project milestones!! People shouldn't worry about not having power, she said, but rather worry about their place of business, etc. All with a smile, of course. The local reporter apparently accepted all of this and didn't ask any probing questions.

There is obviously a threat to the power grid. Anyone who researches this issue knows that to be true. What will happen, of course, is unknown, but the threat is very real and could take down large areas for extended periods of time. Obviously, many utilities are working hard to avoid outages. Others are clueless or well behind in their efforts.

I, too, was very shocked to hear the attorney for the utility recommending generators. I have yet to purchase one--the cost is a bit prohibitive at the moment. I had planned to do so by the end of the year. Now I'm not sure they'll be available. However, given the ability of corporate PR flacks to spout happy-faced pablum to the press and have it swallowed whole by both ignorant reporters and viewers alike, my guess is there will still be a few available come then.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), October 07, 1998.

One more thing. As for the professor's comment that he fears someone will die... I put it in my presentation--maybe it will shock some people into awareness. While some may find his comment outrageous, I would go much further. I fear that millions may die.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), October 07, 1998.

Way to go Steve! Good job! Blondie

-- Blondie Marie (Blondie@future.net), October 07, 1998.

I just sent the following letter to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel:

Kudos on running the front page story by Amy Rinard on the mobilization of the Wisconsin National Guard ("National Guard ready to act on eve of 2000"). This was a very well written, hard-hitting piece which, I hope, conveys the serious nature of the problem. Y2K is the most important issue, in my opinion, facing Wisconsin and the world, yet has received very little serious coverage prior to this article. Now I challenge you to go the extra mile. Y2K will not only potentially impact utilities, but government on all levels, banking, the stock market, communications, the food suppy, transportation, etc. In short, any company that uses computers and anyone who depends upon computers will be affected. There is an abundance of information available on the subject. Most of it is on the Internet, not the mainstream press. I feel that it is too late to fix all of the bad code. I am not alone in this assertion. The fact is, most of the world's businesses and governments are either not going to fix all of their broken code, or will do nothing at all to remedy it. The result will likely be a near total breakdown of infrastructures and our technological society as it currently exists. It is not too late, however, to inform your readers of the chaos likely to come, and to help them prepare. I have read literally thousands of articles, and have produced a Powerpoint presentation on the subject, which I am attaching. I have also worked as a Y2K project coordinator and mainframe system tester, so I feel that I am knowledgable on the subject. Please view the presentation. It is filled with facts and quotes, including several from today's article, as well as web sites to visit for more information. Your readers deserve the truth, and time is short. Better to lay out the facts and create a little panic now than have mass chaos and potential riots when 1/1/2000 comes. Feel free to contact me for more information.

[End of letter]

I'll post any response I get.

-- Steve Hartsman (hartsman@ticon.net), October 08, 1998.

Re Gestapo & the Guard: Lets get real here. If Y2K were to be an isolated and short term disaster type event, indeed you could expect that the troops would be outstanding. However, as the the duration, hopelessness, and magnitude of a Y2K meltdown become apparent, things will change accordingly, especially when food and clean water get scarce for everyone. (Ever hear the expression, "After three days, fish and guests start to smell?" That is a drop in the bucket compared to what will happen in the cities under martial law.

-- Joe (shar@pei.com), October 08, 1998.

I agree that, by and large, our National Guard are composed of ourselves - individuals within our community who, under normal circumstances, would adhere to the highest standards of professional conduct.

They/we are here to help, not oppress and it would do us all good to start from that point. Indeed, to those of you who serve in the National Guard who may be following this thread, I would say that I think we will need your services and your role will be essential.

But the potential for catastophic mistakes, overreaction and abuse of power - even under localized and moderately disruptive circumstances - should not, indeed must not be underestimated.

The four unarmed students shot and killed by our National Guard at Kent State University on May 4, 1970 were:

• Jeffrey Miller
• Allison Krause
• William Schroeder
• Sandra Scheuer

Those names and their sacrifices should not be forgotten and we ALL must act responsibly as events unfold.

- Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 08, 1998.

Arnie - was it ever discovered who the guards were that actually pulled the trigers and killed those students? And were they ever held responsible? Johan

-- johan (reisch@c-zone.net), October 08, 1998.

Johan: It was an extremely difficult time for our country. Blame was laid in a great many places and my personal opinion is that, indeed, we all share in the responsibility, to some degree, for those unnecessary deaths.

It is fairly easy to choose one target and single them out for blame: the shooters, their CO, the entire National Guard, Richard Nixon, the students throwing rocks and bottles, the Congress, the college administration, the mayor of Kent, the news media, General Westmoreland, left-wing ideology, right-wing ideology, the military-indutrial complex, the Democrats, the Republicans, the protesters, those who spoke up, those who were silent, the communists, the capitalists, etc., etc., etc....

But the fault lies in many places, not one. Any of the above individuals and groups who deny their responsibility do not fully understand the events which transpired that very sad day. George Santayana's often quoted words apply here ("For those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.)

Today, nearly 30 years later, what is most important is not so much 'who was to blame?' but rather 'what can I personally do to ensure that such events do not occur again?' Think about it.

Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 09, 1998.

Sorry for leaving BOLDING on, it should be turned of in this thread now - I had intended to bold just one word, not the entire post. Oh well, if that's the worst thing that happens to me today, it will have been a very good day!

Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 09, 1998.

I'm new on the internet. Boy, people have a hard time staying focused, don't they?!

-- Diane Krstulovich (dideekins@hotmail.com), October 10, 1998.

I'm new on the internet. Geez, people have a hard time staying focused, don't they?! I can't locate the news article to which you refer and would VERY MUCH like to see it. I've tried the web address you gave, but without success. Help, please. Thanks

-- Diane Krstulovich (dideekins@hotmail.com), October 10, 1998.

=But the fault lies in many places, not one.=

Sorry Arnie, but that is the kind of thinking that leads to the "It's not my fault, society is to blame" nonsense that is prevalent today. The fault lies with the trigger puller, plain and simple, no ifs ands or buts.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 10, 1998.

Diane, the article has been removed (and chances are somebody lost their job!) I printed it out and am glad I did, these types of articles have a way of "disappearing."

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), October 10, 1998.

Check out the archived messages at the bottom of the main threads list. If you find it and post to it, it will revive to the "new answers" page. Clear as mud? Sorry...

I'm trying to get the gist of the "trigger puller" thing. Uncle,...are you talking about the trigger puller for Y2K, martial law? "Help me Mr. Wizard," as Tutor Turtle was known to say,...Elucidate, my wise fellow mentor-weirdo-survivor!

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 10, 1998.

Oh heck...sorry Uncle, please forgive my stupid question...just reviewed the thread...you meant Kent State...and I agree with you....Who pulled the trigger? is the pertinent question. No powers that be...What individual? We could talk about My Lai...about Nazi or other group war crimes...and the perennial..."I was just following orders" chant. In our house...just following orders means one is brain dead, and not a valid excuse for anything. "Just following orders" makes the concept of opposable thumbs moot, doesn't it?

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 10, 1998.

Help! Mister Wizard, I don't want to be a airplane pilot!

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 10, 1998.

...I just gotta:

"Drizzle, drazzle, drazzle drome,...Time for this one to come home"

It's not my fault you see,...just quoting Mr. Wizard!

LOL

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), October 10, 1998.

Diane, I can get the article at:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/1008elec.asp

rocky

-- trocky knolls (rknolls@hotmail.com), October 10, 1998.

Whoops, sorry, that was the 'retraction.' It's worthwhile reading, anyway.

-- rocky (rknolls@hotmail.com), October 10, 1998.

Donna

Ain't it grand, hey, what was the formula for Milton the Monster, I know, I'll bet you are just the sort to know too.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 10, 1998.

Milton the Monster...

6 drops of Essence of Terror,
5 drops of Sinister Sauce!
(When the stirring's done, may I lick the spoon?
Of course, ha ha, of course!)
Now for the Tincture of Tenderness,
But I must use only a touch! It might destroy me! Whoops! Too much!

Better hold your breath; it's starting to tick! (Better hold my hand; I'm feeling sick!) Hello Daddy!
What have I done?!
I'm Milton, your brand-new son!

Amazing, the crap permanently etched into my brain. No wonder I don't watch much TV anymore....

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), October 12, 1998.

Larry

You are correct, sir! You are now eligible for the extra credit lightning round! The question will concern "Fearless Fly"

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 12, 1998.

For without a touch of tenderness. It might destroy me.

But yeah, the recipe is right.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 12, 1998.

The article in which the power company attorney spoke about generators did not actually "disappear" a la 1984. The Journal Sentinal software simply archived the piece (along with all the other stuff from that day). (You can access it here).

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), October 12, 1998.

Deedah, what about Fearless Fly? I don't remember the name of his meek mild-mannered alias, but he only got strong when he wore his glasses.

Loved it, especially since I had glasses too. :-)

-- Larry Kollar (lekollar@nyx.net), October 13, 1998.

To get back to the National Guard/Gestapo comparison: Gestapo also had mothers, and fathers, grandmas, and grandpas, and wives, and babies, and doggies and kitties, and houses with swing sets in the back yard. They lived and worked in various "home towns," every bit as folksy and heartwarming as our own. They celebrated Christmas, and cried at weddings. They believed in what they were doing, and believed it was the best thing for their country, and the world. What they did was horrible, and many of them knew it was horrible, and did not relish their "duty." They were goaded to cruelty in the name of honor, and in the name of the peace, prosperity and hope that would be ushered in by A UNITED EUROPE and eventually A NEW WORLD ORDER - sound familiar? These pitifully corrupted dupes were punished at Nuremberg (along with a good share of sociopaths who rose to the top under these circumstances). The international financial bosses that built up the Nazi war machine from the ashes and set their racial/eugenics policies funded both sides in the war, and went unpunished (Read David Icke's "And The Truth Shall Set You Free" for more information on this topic).

Point is, that under economic duress, and manufactured threat of an internal enemy, even "God's people" can be manipulated into horrifying acts that they never could have imaginined in better years. We all have a dark side, and these master manipulators know more about it than we do. They also know all about the pride and egotism that makes us say "not us! not here!" I have no doubt that hungry National Guardspeople would confiscate my "hoard" of a years food supply "for the good of the community" (who didn't bother to prepare) at the drop of an informant's dime. Goes double for my guns. Right now I don't see them protesting the suspension of the 4th amendment via the phoney "war on drugs," or protesting "civil seizure" laws that amount to direct theft of private property on suspicion, by and for law enforcement, regardless of whether the accused is cleared in criminal court. These "good people" either haven't read the constitution or don't care about it, and this bonfire of our liberties has been happening under a booming economy. What will the people of the nation submit to when they are really hurting? Your National Guard friends may really be the best of folk. But forgive me if I don't share your confidence in their love of liberty, given the historical context and track record of law enforcement in the last decade.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 13, 1998.

Ya know E, I'm startin to think ya might be on ta sumthin.

Still not sure that most people would go meekly to the "relocation" camps though.

BTW, perhaps it is time for like-minded people to relocate to one geographic area, and form the "New Republic of Freedonia". A wonderful land where the US Constitution is not just a sheet of paper in a museum, but the actual law of the land. A real-life experiment in "Live and let live"! My goodness what a wonderful place that would be! Shall we?

PS to Larry-Hiram was his 'other' name. But who was his arch enemy?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 13, 1998.

Last time South Carolina tried that you guys got mad.

Real mad.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 13, 1998.