In the interest of avoiding getting into any database of any sort, in this case the Cash Transaction Report (CTR) and avoiding becoming a future felon through the structuring rules, the question is how to get your cash from the bank in amounts of over $10,000 or to cash checks of over that amount from others.

Here's a plan I heard and would appreciate comments. someone has $25,000 in bank and wants it out and also wants to own gold in some amount. That person buys $25,000 of gold and then several weeks later sells $12,000 of it back to the dealer and asks for payment in cash. Of course, there are some small transaction amounts for the buying and selling on each end but it seems to perhaps accomplish avoiding the problem. Any comments or ideas would be appreciated.

-- Rancherdick (angusdude@yahoo.com), October 16, 1998

Answers

1. Will the gold dealer simply hand you that much in cash?

2. Does he have reporting responsibility for it? My guess is that, yes, he does, otherwise this loophole would have been used before as a basis for drug funding........the seller takes payment in gold and then cashes the gold in for cash. (I know that the sale of some gold coins do not have to be reported, or didn't the last time I looked.)

Suggest you contact a gold dealer and ask him.

-- rocky knolls (rknolls@hotmail.com), October 16, 1998.

If you'd divide your assets between several different banks, then withdraw under $10k cash from each, would that work, or does the government keep a tab and total of all withdrawals from all banks for each individual?

-- Chris (catsy@pons.com), October 16, 1998.

Gary North is currently offering, for free, a special e-mail report entitled "Surviving All 3 States of the Flight to Cash", which I would suspect would cover the questions that have been raised on this thread -- though I don't know for sure, since the report won't get e-mailed out for a few more days. Go to http://www.garynorth.com and into the "Banking" category, click on the above titled post, then follow the instructions to get your free e-mailed report. NORTH'S OFFER ENDS TOMORROW, BETTER ACT QUICK.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), October 16, 1998.

Actively seeking to avoid the CTR is a felony, if you are caught, you will have a new boyfriend. His name will be Bubba, and you will be his 'bitch'.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 16, 1998.

Protecting one's privacy is one issue, withdrawing one's own money from one's own bank account is another. Having never withdrawn >$10,000 from my bank at once, I've never had anyone shove any paperwork under my nose. Can anyone confirm?

Besides, it would seem logical that the issue (from a tax standpoint) is not how you spend cash you *withdraw*, but can you substantiate a legitimate source for a large sum of cash you want to *deposit*. What's the problem with transferring $20,000 + from, say, an equities fund to your checking account, and withdrawing that $20,000 in cash?

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), October 16, 1998.

Withdrawing $10,000 or any combination thereof over the course of a year (not written in stone, they may still go after you if you have a suspicious 14-month record) is to keep you from using that money for a drug deal. If this is upsetting to you, tough sh*t, there is a war on, and you must give up your freedoms, one after another, in order to win this war.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 16, 1998.

the gold dealer is required to report any individual who buys $10,000 worth of gold in a year using cash.

so you can buy lots of gold using a check(paper trail). or you can have your closest relatives buy gold for you with cash.

-- areseejay (areseejay@aol.com), October 16, 1998.

however, if you are not asked for id when you buy gold..... or if you buy at multiple shops.... and if you spread your purchases out over the short time remaining...

-- areseejay (areseejay@aol.com), October 16, 1998.

Deedah, >>Withdrawing $10,000 or any combination thereof over the course of a year (not written in stone, they may still go after you if you have a suspicious 14-month record) is to keep you from using that money for a drug deal. If this is upsetting to you, tough sh*t, there is a war on, and you must give up your freedoms, one after another, in order to win this war. <<

Based solely on the relative positions of our responses, I am assuming you're addressing mine, and not the original questioner. With that in mind.... Where the heck are you coming from?? I am having some difficulty parsing your first sentence, but my original post, as poorly worded as it may be, was meant to suggest that one is not forbidden by any law from withdrawing whatever quantity of cash one wishes. In fact, Structuring, or apparent structuring, is the greater risk, as it implies an ulterior motive. Withdrawing $10,000 cash over the course of a year? Hah! Barely covers groceries!

As to your second sentence, you have one foot on the slippery slope and the other on the banana peel.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), October 16, 1998.

Elbow grease Please carefully note placement of Unc's tongue! And his other posts for reference. Oy vey.

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 17, 1998.

Elbowor is it Mr. Grease?

My comments were directed at any and all posters who are looking for a way out of obeying a federal law. I was not saying that you may not legally withdraw cash in any amount you desire (not yet, but hang on), just that if you are caught trying to avoid filing the CTR the Feds may, at their discretion, prosecute you. The CTR applies whether you do it in chunks of cash, or in aggregate amounts of smaller withdrawals. They have the upper hand when it comes to the interpretation of whether or not you are doing something illegal, and if they decide against you, you will end up in court, and possibly prison. You may, of course, do as you wish to do in this regard, but if you are caught you should be aware of the consequences. There is a war on dammit, and you must do your part, your part includes telling Uncle Sam (My evil twin) what you are doing with your cash.

I agree with your second assertion with one small change. Because of this war we are in, society stands on the slippery slope and banana peel, and that slope leads to totalitarianism. Current law enforcement trends indicate to me that there is only one way to win this war, and that is for every single US citizen to take a weekly pee test, and to allow in home monitoring with cameras in all rooms of every house across the USA. After all, if you are doing nothing wrong, you should have no objection. No tongue in cheek here, that is the only way to win. How many of you out there are really ready to do what it will take to win?

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 17, 1998.