Weapon's responses

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I have received a ton of private responses to the weapons post query. Seems like this forum has about 100 to 1 lurker rate!! Anyway, roughly 80% ARE buying or have weapons. Probably half are relatively new to weapons. Part of the reason I initiated this was to communicate to the non gun culture people who decide to buy guns. We shouldn't make this a taboo subject even though it offends a vocal minority. For survival situations, informing people what weapons are useful is as valid as recommending food storage techniques. Now to answer publicly a number of querys, 1.) I am VERY experienced with weapons up to and including antitank. (ex-military, foreign sevice, hunter) 2.) Couln't agree more about the advice to get proper training, etc. However, this isn't rocket science. Just never point the end with the hole in it at anything you don't want to puncture. AND always secure your weapons from everyone but you. Lastly, practice!!!! 3.) Even for the non gun owners, take a look at your abode and make some actual plans about how you COULD defend it. AND figure out a fall back position (with emergency supplies) if you have to abandon ship in a hurry. This is as important for country dwellers as city folk. Yeah, I know, its 1 in 500 you'll actually need this but, "how lucky do you feel?". 4.) Uncle Deedah, knew I could count on you!!

-- R. D..Herring (drherr@erols.com), October 16, 1998

Answers

Interesting comment about the 100 to 1 lurker rate. I had arrived at roughly the same conclusion, not only for this Board, but others as well. What are the implications? Even if the ration were 1000 to 1, it means only a tiny fraction of the population is reading.

OK, more to the point: Weapons. The suggestions already given are excellent, but fail to address *the* crucial factor. First, I want to make clear that I am 2nd amendment all the way, military training, (multi) gun owner, handloader, hunter, etc, etc. Know what Buck Fever is? Well, *before* you think about acquiring any weapons for self defense, you MUST decide if you can stare down the sights of a weapon at a human being and pull the trigger, *regardless of the reason!* You MUST decide *in advance* what circumstances would call for such action, and what circumstances *do not* call for it. You MUST know what you personally are capable of. You will find that for most scenarios you can think of, very few demand lethal response.

Without taking THESE steps, without doing the mental and emotional exercises, you become a LARGE problem to yourself, your family, and society. And the results, either by hesitation, or by impulsive action, can be tragic.

Plan Carefully.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), October 16, 1998.


If 80% responded to having a gun or will be getting one, that makes me feel very good! I don't have to worry about the other 20% coming after my goods because they won't be armed. If 80% are staying put and defending their turf then things don't look so bad after all....or do they?

-- Bardou (bardou@baloney.com), October 16, 1998.

i hope all the 'new' gun owners realize the responsibilities that come with owning guns. they MUST learn how to safely operate and take care of it. they MUST practice to become accurate. in most cases, the people that sold the gun to you will know where you can get the info/advice/training you need.

having said that, target shooting is a good/fun way to spend an afternoon.

-- areseejay (areseejay@aol.com), October 16, 1998.


And believe it or not, it's reasonably good exercise. No, it aint aerobic, it's actually somewhere between actively anaerobic and isometric. Anyone who isn't a shooter should simply pick up a half pound anything in both hands, stretch the arms out full, and lift up until you are looking straight ahead over the top of whatever it is, and hold that pose for a TIMED half minute, 4 or 5 times in 7 minutes. If your arms and shoulders DON'T start to shake on the third lift, you are in pretty good shape.

Besides, fo pleasure, it's teh accuracy thawt counts and makes it a skill. Just remember that at least 3/4 of the practice should be against teh standard man-silhouet (-5 sp) and at ranges from the social distance of 15 feet (bedroom? kitchen to diningroom?) out to about 15 meters. For handguns and shotguns. Leave the longer ranges to the pros. the experienced. the really paranoid. THe average person will only be involved in the social distances.

BTW Unca D. No grade??

CR

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 17, 1998.


9 points, pretty good for a first try.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 17, 1998.


My mother and I got our training through our local sheriff's department, it was a women's only course. Also, check at shooting ranges for safety classes. By the way, did any of you hear about the poodle who killed his master with a gun? Always assume that any gun is loaded!

-- Bardou (bardou@baloney.com), October 17, 1998.

I hope EVERYBODY (lurkers, are you reading??) pays attention to what Elbow Grease had to say.

I had a friend who had bragged for years about his sharp shooting skills, shown off his target-shooting trophys and ribbons, etc., and loved to regale one and all with descriptions of the big buck he would bring down if only he would get around to actually getting his hunting license.

Finally, the season came and one of our buddies took him out for the big hunt. He got his deer alright. Shook so hard he just wounded the stag, and his pal had to finish it off for him. Mr. Sharpshooter was so shaken up about the whole experience that he broke down in TEARS right in the break room of the office building he worked in when he tried to brag about the big kill. Swore he'd never pick up a gun again, and I don't think he will, at least not for a LONG time.

Moral of the story: Search your souls, Y2kampers, and prepare yourselves as much as you may for what you might find yourself having to do. If you find you wouldn't be able to USE a gun, use the money for some other kind of defense or security measure, like solar lighting or sirens. Or a gaggle of geese. Or maybe a moat???

-- Arewyn (nordic@northnet.net), October 17, 1998.


If you're not currently a shooter, get a _good_ pellet gun and start plinking with it. Not a BB gun, mind you, but a single-stroke .177 (other calibers also) and have fun.

It doesn't go BOOM! but all the other skills apply. And for goodness sakes, learn to shoot in some other position besides standing up. Kneel, sit, or prone are better ways to start than on both feet. Remember, with anything new - success brings confidence...

j

-- j (nothere@yoyodyne.com), October 17, 1998.


Consider a 12 ga. shotgun loaded with "bean bags". Cops use these non- leathal (most of the time) loads to knock the wind out of attackers. Getting hit with one has to hurt.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), October 18, 1998.

My .02 worth again. 1. I agree with your weapon choices but I must emphasize that obtaining a weapon in 5.56 is critical at this point in time. Assuem the best, but plan for the worst. If all of your other weapons fail, a good rifle in this caliber (AR-15, Mini-14, etc.) will be a Godsend. Why? Plan for the worst assumption. That the personnel you will be shooting at will be using the same caliber. The armed forces in this country and local police as a general rule only shoot (at least in my state) the following: 5.56mm, 9mm, 12 gauge, .357 magnum and .45. If you are planning for the worst case scenario if TSHTF, you will at least have the ability to strip ammo from bodies. A grusome thought, but a historically long standing method of building up ammunition stocks in periods of conflict. 2.IF anyone reads this and they are inexperienced, don't go out and play RAMBO with your first purchase. Get a .22 lr pistol and rifle and practice. I don't know how many people that I have tried to preach to about firearms in the last 20 years, and told them to start small, get accurate and move up in kind. Traning with a .44 magnum or .30-06 is assinine. 3.LAST BUT NOT AT ALL LEAST: If you have small children in the house, which I don't, NEVER sleep with the weapon by the nightstand. Hell, never have the weapon in an unsecured area. If you are not home, have every weapon and round locked up in a gun safe. If you are so stupid as to leave the weapons available to small children, you are part of the problem and need to be part of that herd that is about to be thinned. Practice up people. And you best buy those high capacity clips quickly...the market is getting thinner by the day.

-- John Galt (jgaltfla@hotmail.com), October 18, 1998.


A few of you will giggle, some of you will snort derisively, but if you want a good, inexpensive way of training your "point"skills, may I suggest going down to the video arcade and playing a game like "Police Trainer", "Area 51", etc. Any vid with toy guns hanging from the front will do. What we're looking for is the ability to quickly acquire and engage a target, and to differentiate between friend and foe, shoot and no shoot. When you play, be sure to use the proper stance (ignore Junior with the barrel 2" from the screen), use the proper foot/bodywork when changing position, take $10.00 worth of quarters and have fun! BTW, I also believe strongly in the value of range work and in working with air rifles, but when you can't qutie afford range time, or you're at lunch, a vid is better than nothing.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), October 18, 1998.

John

Actually, if you own a 44 mag, training with it is a good idea. Any large caliber takes a little getting used to because the noise and recoil level are quite high. Ditto with any weapon, you must know what to expect when you pull the trigger. If you are used to a 38, a 44 mag can be a real surprise, and that is not something you need in a serious situation. Never buy a gun and just put it away till you 'need it'. That is a recipe for disaster.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 18, 1998.


Me again, gun owners in California who are concerned about their rights may want to go to:

http://www.ca.lp.org/rel/19981015-endorse.html

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 18, 1998.


OK - let's say I AM one of those people who doesn't know if they could shoot someone (although, were my kids threatened, I truly believe I would do it). Can you guys recommend some realistic help in defending oursleves - if not as well as with a gun, then at least better than with a gaggle of geese or a moat. Anyone here have experience with mace? Pepper spray? Stun gun things?

-- Melissa (financed@forbin.com), October 18, 1998.

The concern about the "children" (sob) shooting themselves and others accidentally is just a liberal p-u-s-s-y smokescreen. What they hell good does your gun(s) do locked up and ammo somewhere else? We're not talking hunting or range practice here.

Any kid stupid enough not to know the difference between a real gun and a playtoy doesn't deserve to survive and neither do his parents. "Evolution in action!"

-- bobber (bob@lucifershammer.com), October 21, 1998.



Bobber

Two posts now and you have raised the 'pussy' word when refering to non-gun owners. How long since you got any? Long time, huh. REALLY LONG TIME? I'll bet I could win 50 bux on that one. How does it feel to have a tiny one? No, not a little one, I mean really tiny! Itsey bitsey.

Me, I think that you are the biggest pussy on the planet. F.U. Howabout that for a welcome assh*le? Sh!theads like you give us regular gun toters a bad name, so here you go again F.U.

Go rent a hooker(god help her), and call us when you feel better.

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), October 21, 1998.


But, Uncle D, how do you REALLY feel?? Don't leave anything out, now.

c

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 21, 1998.


Uncle, You have to admit though, that bobber has a point. If you are going to have a useful gun, it has to be where you (and by extension, your kids) can get at it. Far better to teach your kids good "gun manners" than either not have the gun when you need it or have a dead kid! I have always respected that which could kill my kids: guns, high trees with low branches, Draino, etc. I feel the best protection we can give a child old enough to get at dangerous stuff is education. (I admit, sometimes my poor mother's heart felt that this was living dangerously.)

-- Lois Knorr (knorr@attcanada.net), October 21, 1998.

Actually, we need to do like Switzerland and require any potential voter to pass a standard shooting test with a specified minimum score before they're allowed to vote.

That would improve the political climate in this country for sure ;-)

-- Ken Holder kholder@webleyweb.com http://www.webleyweb.com/y2k/y2k.html

-- Ken Holder (kholder@webleyweb.com), October 21, 1998.


John Galt says, in weapons training, start small, work up gradually to larger calibers. I dunno. When I was in Basic at Ft. Benning in 1943 they started us with .30-06 Springfields, later switched to the Garand; there were a few black eyes until everybody learned to keep the butt tight on the shoulder. Concurrently we trained on the Army issue Colt .45. I admit some of the guys had trouble there at first. We all learned to shoot, though.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 22, 1998.

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