The new flu shot

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Just to let everyone know - the reason I haven't posted anything lately is because the wife and I got the new flu shots last Saturday. We both reacted badly to them - wound up in the emergency room Sunday night/Monday morning. Has anyone else had this happen this year? It would be nice to know if this is just us or a widespread problem. It does seem funny that both of us reacted the same way though - almost like something is wrong with the vaccine.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), October 27, 1998

Answers

Got mine 2 weeks ago - no problems. Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 27, 1998.

My son got his last week and no problems.Sorry you all had such a rotten reaction!

-- Laura (MrsLKG@aol.com), October 27, 1998.

In ohio, we have been told flu shot shortage will have to wait....Hummmmmm? Perhaps there Was something wrong with them and they had to get new ones? Glad to here you and the spouse are better.

-- consumer alert (private@aol.com), October 27, 1998.

I have lasted out three nasty flu seasons using nothing but echinacea and two grams of vitamin C per day. Almost everyone around me got sick. I had a cold this year, but that's it. Astralagus and Golden Seal are two more herbal immune-response-building alternatives to a government needle in your (or your infant's) arm. Thousands of people, mostly children, DIE every year from mandatory vaccinations. There are manditory child vaccinations for hepatitus C, which is only trasmissable through risky behaviours (like sex and needle sharing)??!! The CDC forces parents to put their children at risk of abreaction and death, knowing that there will be a number of "statistically insignificant" child deaths. They are SELLING VACCINE, - a billion-dollar industry - and establishing the other side of the drug war coin: not only can the government keep you from using any food or chemical without their permission; they can also force any chemical into your body at their whim.

Most flu illnesses are the result of weakened immune systems. You eat meat, which is full of hormones, pesticides, herbacides, and is the largest known vector for dioxin's entry into the body. You don't exercise, or maintain muscle tone. You get your antioxidants from a pill and not from vegetables. You a diet high in refined sugar, flour, and saturated fats. Therefore your immune response is weakened, and being weak, you become vulnerable to two viral illnesses taking over your body: the flu, and the Federal Government. Nature at work, in all it's cruel splendor...

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 27, 1998.


Paul, even though we disagree 99.9% of the time on Y2K, I sure have missed your thought provoking posts. Hope you folks are ok, welcome back.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), October 27, 1998.


E.coli... For once, I wholeheartedly agree with you! I'm 73 now, and for many years, in the Fall, I have "dosed" myself with Echinacea with Golden Seal. No questionable flu shots for me! I've seen too many fellow seniors get bad reactions! We are a pharmaceutically-duped society!! Pity!

-- Holly Allen (Holly3325@juno.com), October 27, 1998.

Got my flu shot three weeks ago and no bad reaction. Hope you and your wife are ok Paul.

E and woman-whose-name-escaped-me-after-I-read-it, I am always very interested in home remedies. Care to share some more details on this one?

Rick

-- Rick Tansun (ricktansun@hotmail.com), October 27, 1998.


E. coli- I agree wholeheartedly with you about building up the immune system, and about generally avoiding unnecessary vaccines and 'remedies', however must disagree with you on one small point. The government (CDC) does not force you to vaccinate your children or yourself. They STRONGLY recommend, (bully, bluff, cajole, pick your term), however they cannot FORCE you to vaccinate. In fact many public health departments have a lot of problems with such things as whooping cough, etc. from unvaccinated children. But that is another story. If you don't want your child vaccinated, all you have to do is sign a waiver at the school. They do track these, and may not allow your child to attend if there is an outbreak at the school, but it is still your choice. As for adults, the only time i have ever been forced to have vaccinations was in the military-but i guess that is another story, huh?

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), October 27, 1998.

Sorry E, tried the daily echinacea/vitamin C/Golden Seal route for two and half straight years at the behest of my brother. I finally got tired of getting the flu.

No, I don't smoke and despite my raves about Hagen Daaz, have limited my fat intake to between 12-20 grams per day for the past few years (mostly unsaturated).

I only eat red meat on rare occassions (just twice this year!) and my diet is very low in both refined sugars and flour. I consume a lot of fresh vegetables and fruit. I exercise aerobicly for 45 minutes between 3-4 times per week.

While this lifestyle has had many positive effects (lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, lower weight, etc.), preventing the flu was NOT one of them. The only thing that has ever had a significant impact has been the vaccinations. I'm not saying that everyone is like me, only that having 'been there, & done that', I do speak with a bit of personal experience. For me, it's the relative risk vs. effectiveness thing. And, Y2K willing, I'll continue taking vaccines for the forseeable future.

However, this should not be construed as an argument against herbal medicines and/or herbal health maintenance products. Indeed, my preparations have included, among many other things, bee pollen, Vitamin C, apple cider vinegar, and a wide VARIETY of canned and dried veggies. Oh yes, and a couple of books on growing, collecting, storing and using herbs (and wild species of plants indigenous to my area).

But different people are different. My neighbor down the street is 74, smokes like a chimney, eats mostly fast foods and grease, wouldn't know a vitamin from a ruffled grouse, and hasn't gotten so much as cold in the 10 years I've been living out here. If I tried this, I'm sure I'd be dead in a week. (But oh what a week it would be).

For any treatment to be considered effective, it must repeatedly SURPASS placebo effect in a double blind study, otherwise prayer rugs, snake oils, shark cartiledge, rhino horn and voodoo chants are all equally as effective.

Certainly some herbal products are of significant value. Likewise, there is no reason not to subject herbal products to the same scientific scrutiny. Not all people respond to same factors.

-Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 27, 1998.


The CDC witholds federal funding from States if they don't meet vaccination quotas, so there's a lot of pressure. Some States allow "philosophical" waivers - for parents who simply disagree; many more only allow medical or religious wavers. In other words, your child can't go to school without a vaccination unless you lie about your religious beliefs. Am I wrong to find this absolutely revolting?

Give them another 10 years controlling your bodies like this and you'll all be eating "Soma" - and liking it!

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 27, 1998.



Just got home from the hospital. My mother (75 years old), was admitted for the flu. She got the flu shot and reacted. Last year she had the flu shot and still got the flu and almost died. I don't trust anything being injected into my body. She is completely broken out with a rash...it's a terrible thing!

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), October 27, 1998.

The best way to avoid getting the flu is maintaining a strong immune system, and proper hygiene.

The immune system is weakened from several factors:

1. Stress, mental and physical. Worries of Y2K is an example of mental stress. Being cold from not enough clothing or keeping house temperature too low is example of physical stress.

2. Diet. A diet poor in Vitamin C and E will weaken the cell walls in the body, as well as those of antibodies.

3. Lack of adequate sleep. (stresses to both mental and physical functions.)

As for hygiene; wash your hands frequently and never touch the mucus membranes of your face (nose, eyes, mouth) that's where the cold/flu viruses enter your body. Wash your hands after handling objects in public areas (door knobs, telephones, using the bathrooms etc.). Stay far away from coughing people (at least 6').

If getting used to do this is too difficult for you, get a vaccine, but make sure you don't have a cold or incubating a cold or flu, and that you're not allergic to the substances that composes the vaccine. The flu virus itself in the vaccine is dead and can't cause the flu, it only sends an alert to the immune system that a foreign body has entered. This response from the immune system is what causes a fever. It's usually a mild fever and aches for a few hours or a day, because the response needed from the immune system is low since it's only a few dead viruses.

The benefits of vaccines cannot be overstated, but as mentioned above, one must first assertain that one isn't allergic to the base substance and that the vaccine is made up of dead viruses, not simply "attenuated" viruses. I beleive those aren't used in vaccination anymore, but I could be wrong. I know the flu vaccines are of dead viruses.

In the case of Paul and his wife, have you asked your doctor what caused this reaction? It's important to ask. You could both have been incubating a flu you cought right before getting the vaccine, or having an allergic reaction.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), October 27, 1998.


Arnie, I'm with your neighbor on this one: egg burrito (or 2 for breakfast), couple of pots of coffee through the morning, can of soup for lunch, maybe a been or chicken burrito too, few more pots of coffee in the afternoon, something for supper, something else for a late snack if I'm working late. Maybe french fries or the like after going to library with the kids, or while waiting during music lessons.

Stir well, repeat the next day. Haven't died yet. (Any of those things have vitamins in 'em?)

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 28, 1998.


Robert: I'm green with endive..er..uh...I mean envy! -Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), October 28, 1998.

Thanks folks, I was just wondering if this had been a common reaction this year. Guess not. The doctor wouldn't exactly blame the flu shots - but he said he had ruled out about everything else - and believe me they ran a bunch of tests. Only thing they did not test for was food poisoning - since we were completely drained (if you get my drift) there wasn't much of anything left to test.

We are all OK now though. Thanks for caring.

Robert, laughing at your last post hurt my sides. Thanks, I guess (OUCH).

Now here is a thought - would an over reaction to a dose of killed virus be a sign of a weak immune system that didn't know how to react - or a strong immune system that was determined to stamp out all invaders? I can't say---what do you think?

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), October 28, 1998.



got my flu shot on the seventeenth of oct. no bad reaction. been getting them regularly for the last four years, and havent gotten the flu. had the flu every year for three years before that, got tired of it, and decided enough was enough! you can talk all you want about the herbs, I think they're worthless.

-- ed (edrider007@aol.com), October 28, 1998.

Catsy: You said
1. Stress, mental and physical.

2. Diet. A diet poor in Vitamin C and E will weaken...

3. Lack of adequate sleep.

Uh-oh, got #2 covered but after reconsidering #1 and #3 - I think I'll go get a second flu shot this year :)

Seriously, you have raised some good things to keep in mind here - especially that some people should not take this shots for very specific reasons. Thanks

Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 28, 1998.


Forgot to close the <blockquote> - sorry -Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (arnie_rimmer@usa.net), October 28, 1998.

I use to get the flu 3 times a year, then somebody suggested plant derived colloidal minerals. I have not had the flu or a cold for two years now. Getting out of bed in the morning has been a more simple task also. Must have been what my run down body needed.

-- smith (gman100@webtv.net), October 28, 1998.

I use to get the flu 3 times a year, then somebody suggested plant derived colloidal minerals. I have not had the flu or a cold for two years now. Getting out of bed in the morning has been a more simple task also. Must have been what my run down body needed.

-- smith (gman100@webtv.net), October 28, 1998.

Sure am glad I ran across this thread. We were offered free flu shots at work yesterday. I'm changing my mind and not getting one. I have not had the flu in two years anyway so wy mess with the shots. Thanks for all of this great information. Dave

-- Dave (dave22@concentric.net), October 28, 1998.

I didn't mean to sound high and mighty about the diet thing. The reason I'm so *pure* is that I drove myself to ill health through poor diet and lack of exercise, then worked my way back, so I have a hightened appreciation for the whole process. Some people can treat their bodies poorly and no show any sign of trouble for years, until it catches up with them and their life is cut short; I've seen this in family members and close friends, so I feel strongly about it. There's also a quality-of-life issue: when you are eating a diet rich in minerals, vitamins, clorophyll, and taking the herbs that are here for us to use, then you have an enlarged capacity for understanding and enjoying self, others and environment. There is no doubt in my mind that "road rage," etc., is the result of bodies that are eating too much and not getting enough nutrition - using up energy processing empty calories and storing toxins, but starving on the cellular level - especially for minerals.

Then there's the awkward subject of colon health. Most people are walking around with impacted bowels, and that affects attitude, behavior, learning capacity, etc.. It's like having a rock in your shoe: you might not notice it after awhile, but you're not going to perform as well.

One good thing about Y2k is that a lot of people are discovering sprouting, and a lot of that wheat is going to be made into wheatgrass for juicing.

I really believe that if the human race learned how to feed itself properly, it wouldn't be quite so thirsty for blood...

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 28, 1998.


No one has mentioned "Probiotics" for good bacteria in you body. As for vitamin C "ester C" is the Choice. more effective and it stays in your system about 4 times longer then Ascorbic acid.www.roex.com I am all for nutritional supplements, but they are secondary to probiotics which are primary. www.natrens .com . becarefull with those collotial minerals , Kona Gold is more effective and they are natural www.integriscorp.com I don't agree with those flu vacines and baby vacination(in most cases). Why are they given at such an early age?:( I agree building up the immune system is the key to stay healthy. And lets don't forget the benefits of "Sun Chlorella" www.sunwellness.com this probalbly the cleaness and most effective algae one could purchase.(my opinions)sorry about my spelling.

-- David (pingpongdave@dreamsoft.com), October 30, 1998.

Today is Saturday, and my mother is still in the hospital. Maybe she'll get to come home soon.

-- Bardou (Bardou@baloney.com), October 31, 1998.

Please wish her my best, and my prayers for you and the rest of her family...

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 31, 1998.

Bardou, I'm SO sorry about your mom's illness. Does she still have the rash? I hope she doesn't get the flu shot next year! It sure sounds like an allergic reaction to me.

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), October 31, 1998.

Here's another grumpy old guy NOT going to get a flu shot. Namely me. Back when they started up this program there were many reports of adverse reactions up to and including mortality. That's when I decided I'd take the chances that came my way without volunteering for more.

For years I've been taking vit. C and (deodorized) garlic capsules. Can't complain about the results. Still get a cold occasionally, maybe once a year, if that, and even then the misery is mitigated by increasing the garlic intake. People used to say garlic drives away evil spirits. Now they say it enhances the immune system. Whatever.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 03, 1998.


Bardou, did your mom make it home safely? I hope she's well, now.

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), November 04, 1998.

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