There's been a change in the weather on this forum. A LOT of people are casting stones instead of shedding light. If someone needs a project (yeah, right) I have a suggestion. I'd like to see some real FAQ's here. Pick a subject; food storage, barter, alternative energy sources.... Or subsets of these things. Then distill the facts out of all the verbiage, and post. There are many folks who have yet to discover this or similar forums. Could we give them "just the facts" so they do not need to wade through all the flotsam and jetsam?

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), October 28, 1998

Answers

Thank-you, Mr. Grease. I just said basically the same thing on another thread.

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), October 28, 1998.

I second this suggestion, but reserve the right to be philosophical, to examine root causes, to project probable scenarios; in otherwords, generate "verbiage" that risks annoying you. ;)

The practical stuff has already been covered elsewhere, and I see the value of this forum in continuing to point newbys elsewhere - like to the LDS site, Cassandra, or Walton Feed's excellent archive of early and very practical Gary North forum on food storage, right here: http://www.waltonfeed.com/self/forum/default.htm

People should take a few moments with Lycos or Alta Vista to find the practical stuff, and if they can't find what they're looking for, or they have further, specific questions, they can ask a live forum like this. One person's "casting stones" may be another's holding to accoutability, or healthy debate. I enjoy the diversity of interests and opinions here.

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), October 28, 1998.

Probably a matter of perceived behaivor, just that the "phillyspocoly" stuffs gets great attention very fast, rather than factual stuff that gets slower attention with broader technical aspects.

People jump when poked, but their minds aren't changed. They move slower, but more permanently when convinced.

To your original topic - how to cross-reference (link ?) to older threads, to help find stuff on basics that "you kinda remember reading, but don't recall exactly..." Jean, for example, "lost" her little thread: others too no doubt had the same thing happen.

There are broad topics - if things would stay on topic inside a thread - but they won't. First assigned things may also get "misassigned" or diverge. Or simply not assigned at all. What to do?

Be able to "mark" a point in a thread? Kind of like having an interactive "create your own" appendix as you read a reference?

What about approaching Yourdon to print (after editing) variuos threads by topic? Government? technical and programming? Preparedness? Survival? Banking? Tools and household? Even cooking and food? (As if anybody would be interested in that stuff... 8<)

There is a tremendous wealth of contributed knowledge (and awful puns and mispellings) in here....how would you compile it so somebody else can use it? How would you find that hint about ????? from ???? when you need it later?

If the power were down? If the net were down?

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), October 28, 1998.

I've noticed this change also. I'd rather have people reading and researching as much as possible, and forming their own opinions. I continue to research and read, since things are changing. I need to be able to change too. There are still plenty of good links in the posts here. I like to read everyone's opinions, but those links keep me coming back.

I also have to wonder how many lurkers are combing through the archives, and not asking those same questions again. This might have something to do with the change in atmosphere.

-- Mike (gartner@execpc.com), October 28, 1998.

>>I second this suggestion, but reserve the right to be philosophical, to examine root causes, to project probable scenarios; in otherwords, generate "verbiage" that risks annoying you. ;) <<

To E.

What annoys me is when someone thinks they know what annoys me. You haven't seen me annoyed. :-D :-D I have a tendency to go for the throat like a junkyard dog when philosophy turns into ridiculing Christianity. It is EASY to pick apart someone else's faith. (That goes both ways)

E, I respect your thoughts and insights, for the most part, though I don't agree with some of them, and wouldn't suggest any restrictions if I could. I enjoy the diversity of interests and opinions too.

>>The practical stuff has already been covered elsewhere, and I see the value of this forum in continuing to point newbys elsewhere - like to the LDS site, Cassandra, or Walton Feed's excellent archive of early and very practical Gary North forum on food storage, right here: http://www.waltonfeed.com/self/forum/default.htm <<

That's fine, but you mention those sites so offhandedly! What's wrong with a list of urls and why you feel they are valuable? Me, my memory is not what it never was, and I had forgotten the walton feed info. :-(

I feel fortunate that my Y2K discovery experience did not follow the pattern. I went instantly from awareness to action about 18 months ago. But gleaning info from the Web was like pulling teeth, even up to about 6 months ago. And at this stage there are people who NEED hardcore knowledge in a hurry.

-- Elbow Grease (Elbow_Grease@AutoShop.com), October 28, 1998.

I don't know about anybody else, but I have a big enough hard drive on my home workstation to lose all the good info here, so I'm going to get an old fashioned three ring binder and print out the information and put it where it's easy to get to.

-- Karen Cook (browsercat!@hotmail.com), October 29, 1998.

And I knew I had another point:

We could probably use a FAQ section, but anyone who has just stumbled on us really may need the initial (20 seconds) of handholding that Bob Cook and a couple of others seem so D**N GOOD at with the newbies. Often times, the questions asked are NOT the questions that need answered, and we seem to pick up on this fairly quickly, and at least one of us reminds the toddler that the respiratory system CAN be consciously controled.

Just the rest of my $.02

I'd actually considered offering a piece of my mind, but I've only got one left, and it's so small...........

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 29, 1998.

That is interesting. I wonder where the first half went??

Anyway:::

1) [raising right hand] "Nolo contendere, Your Honor"

2) The opinions are not the problem, as they are like fundamental orifices, every one has at least one. the problem comes in when we go from opinion to attempted forced conversion to another opinion and then to baiting. the distance between these points seems to have shortened substantially in the past couple of weeks.

It reminds me of my wife's two second favorite t shirts "I'm 51% Sweetheart and 49% Witch! Don't Push Me!" and " I go from here to Witch in 0.2 sec. Don't Push It!!" (with the Bravo spelling variant on Witch) Actually, I think we all need to remember why we're here, which is...... ...... ...... .....

Class ............? ..........?.........?

All together now:::

TO PROVIDE LIGHT AND GAIN INSIGHTS, IN TURNS!

I knew you could do it!!!

cr

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 29, 1998.

To Karen (and all),

You mentioned having a hard drive big enough to lose all the info here, and your plan to get a three ring binder to keep it handy. I do find paper books more useful than PC-based alternatives sometimes, but thought I'd tell you about an amazing piece of software that I have been using for 12 years. I want to say up front that I have no financial interest or affiliation with the company that makes this program, I just like to share "neat things" that others may find useful. In fact, two recent converts at work just told me that they "don't know how they got along without it." It's called Info Select, and you probably won't find it at your favorite computer store. I've seen it called a "cult classic" in a magazine review, and that's not too far off.

Anyway, I'll try to describe it... Suppose you had a box or drawer that you could throw all your random information in. From little things like post-it notes, to large articles on Y2K stuff. Family info and phone numbers. That great pizza place in Colorado Springs. Emails and clippings from cyberspace that you know you'll want to refer to next week, or maybe next year. Anything. Just throw it in (cut and paste from any source, or type away) -- doesn't have to be organized at all, although you are given the tools if you want to categorize things. Each individual item is called a "note".

To find something, you pop up the search window and type a couple words, partial words, numbers, or whatever, that are on the "note" you want, but are probably not on the other notes. For example, I owned an auto service business, and always used throw-away plastic seat covers and floor mats to protect the cars we worked on. A guy stopped by my shop one day who had very nice ones at a good price, but I had a large supply on hand and did not want to order more at that time. How do I save his phone number so I can find it several months from now? Rolodex? No, I won't remember his name. Well (as you guessed) I typed a one sentence note about the products, along with his name and phone.

Several months later, I popped up Info Select's search window, and typed a couple words -- probably "seat" & "cover" or "plastic" & "floor". As I typed each keystroke, a graphic with a red dot for each note showed me how many notes met my search criteria. As you type each character, the dots representing notes that no longer contain what you are typing turn from red to black, and a counter shows how many notes are left. That way, you can see how much you need to type before you've found the note or notes you want. It happens in real time, nearly as fast as you type. I now have over 3,800 notes, and can still find the guy's phone number for the plastic seat covers in two or three seconds. Or the quote from the General Motors exec on Y2K. Let's see... g.. e.. n.. e.. r.. a... l... (80 left from 3,862) m... o.. t.. o.. r... s... (down to 11 now) y... 2.. k... (down to 3) hit ... there it is (in about five seconds):

"...there are catastrophic problems in every GM plant." - Ralph J. Szgenda, Chief Information Officer General Motors, Fortune, April 27, 1998

Or, maybe all I remember is that there was something interesting from Fortune about GM: g... m... (down to 166) f.. o.. r.. t.. u.. n.. e.. (down to 2) .. There it is!

Just this week, a co-worker was at a customer site with his laptop, and popped up Info Select to get a piece of info for someone. They saw what happened, and immediately wanted to know where to get it.

There are MANY other features that are very handy: ticklers, web hot- links from your notes, flagging notes for "to do" or "pending", etc. But the incredible thing is the way you can stash, organize (if you wish), and QUICKLY FIND stuff almost instantly. In the 20 years I've been using personal computers, this has absolutely been my favorite piece of software, and the last one I'd part with (can you tell?). You can take a look at their website: www.miclog.com (Micro Logic is the company). Pages http://www.miclog.com/isover.htm and http://www.miclog.com/isdesc.htm give a pretty good intro. They have a 60 day money back return policy, if you don't like it.

Well... I sound like an Info Select "nut" just like many of us must sound like Y2K "nuts". Even if Y2K is a "10" I'll do my best to keep the ol' laptop chugging along with a solar panel so I can still use it -- heh, heh.

Best Wishes, Randy

-- Randy Jones (randyjones@techie.com), October 29, 1998.

I like this forum just the way it is :) I like the controversy, the Woe is Me's and the Milnes and everyone in between. Keeps my brain thinking. And the dash of humor sprinkled all around keeps me from total despair. Laughter is the best medecine(TM).

Before I started posting, I lurked and I read through the archives, and printed a load of good tips for preparation to add to what I already had from other websites. I suspect most newbies do the same. No other forums I've come across come close to this one for ease of use and interesting content. Y2kToday's is DULL and people post infrequently. I suspect this is due to the fact that our real names are required and automaticly added to our posts. This inhibits people from lively debates. Plus, one can't print anything from that website. Other forums are too limited in their subjects/atmosphere (too religious or too techy or too spammy/inflamatory.)

High 5's to Yourdon :)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), October 29, 1998.

I too, mentioned the idea of editing stuff from the threads into more digestible FAQ type things, then I let it die. I think it's a great idea, but needs sort of a ring leader and some organization. I'm certainly willing and able to lend editorial energy, but I don't think I have the time or energy to lead rings. Elbow, or someone else, wanna be the organizer? Ed Yourdon, got any ideas or qualms? There's too much rich material here to NOT do something with...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), October 29, 1998.

Randy,

Thanks for the tip. Created my own internet searchable database with a commercially available s/w. It saves time, and helps with the puzzle piece facts.

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), October 31, 1998.