What's the consensus for storeing water in less than 32 degree conditions. Food grade barrels full of freezing water will crack, will they not. Can it be prevented by allowing room for expansion or somesuch? Is bubbling a solution? The may be ways of devising such a system.

In perusing the rv store display shelves, I found some pink anti-freeze which is non-toxic according, according to the label. The main ingredient is propaline (sp?) glycol. It is used for keeping RV potable water lines from freezing during winter. It is normally flushed when the system is put back to regular use. Still, I would like to know the number of gallons of antifreeze to a 55 gal drum of water ratio to prevent freezing and if that mixture safe to drank?

Otherwise, please advise how many bottles of 80 proof bourbon it would take to keep 55 gallons from freezing. :-)

Me

-- Floyd Baker (fbaker@wzrd.com), October 29, 1998

Answers

If you anticipate your barrels being in a cold enough spot that the water will freeze, let it. Keep something around that you can chip chunks out with if you have to, but don't put antifreeze in it, no matter what the label says, and save the bourbon for papercuts and other traumas ; )

-- Karen Cook (browsercat@hotmail.com), October 29, 1998.

1. Drink 2 bottles of the bourbon and forget the water.

2. Leave expansion room in the barrels. A couple or three inches at the top will nicely. Might also leave the bung off.

3. If you're concerned about having your drinking water frozen solid, you might consider a few smaller (5 gallon) jugs that can be kept inside.

-- waterboy (gunga@din.com), October 29, 1998.

Anti-freeze recepe for potable water:

1. Buy a barrel and fill it with water.

2. Buy a case of Wiskey.

3. Pour a cup of Wiskey in the barrel, close the lid. Have a sip of Wiskey.

4. Make sure the lid is on tight, then sit on it. This will keep the lid warm.

5. Pour a cup of Wiskey.

6. After sitting on the lid for 5 minutes, stand up and jump for 3 minutes to replenish your body heat.

7. Pour another cup of Wishkey.

8. Sit back on the barrel.

9. Pour another cup in the wishkey.

10. Repeat step 6, add a little jig.

11. Rock back and forth to keep the whiskey in the barrel moving.

13. Poour a barrel of wishkey in your cup.

14. Open the lid, take a wiz *hic* and sit on teh barrel.

15. Well dang! now the barrel's spilled on teh shnow!

16. Eat the yellow shnow *hic* it's whiskey!

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), October 30, 1998.

Chris,

Your husband is a lucky, lucky man!

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), October 30, 1998.

1)Propilene Glycol (-3sp) is NOT NONTOXIC!!!! See ANY VETRINARIAN'S OFFICE for the refernces!!! It tastes sweet for the poor doggies and they drink it and they die, slowly, and painfully!!!!

CR

-- Chuck a Night Driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 30, 1998.

Soda bottles *nearly* full (about 1" air at the top) are undamaged by freezing. Try one in your freezer.

It's hard to test a polythene bucket of water in a freezer, but since polythene is soft and elastic and since the water can expand upwards, I doubt it'll be damaged. If you live in cold parts, why not do some experiments this winter and report the results next spring?

Vodka is the closest you'll get to a non-toxic antifreeze. Ask any Russian!

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), October 30, 1998.

Ethylene glycol, propylene glycol, etc. are all toxic. Matter of fact alcohol is toxic too, hence the phrase inTOXICated. Alcohol (the drinking type) is vastly less toxic is all.

For freezing conditions contact a good survivalist store and and order some water storage bladder/boxes. The bladder (with tap) is aluminized mylar 6 gal., when put into the cardboard box it holds 5 gal. When it freezes, the box might rupture but the bladder will not. Since the aluminized mylar shuts our light and gases the water can be stored for years. I think I list a supplier in one of the texts on my website http://home.earthlink.net/~kenseger The box has handy carrying holes at each end for transport and can be stacked.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), October 30, 1998.

Sure, it's SUPPOSED to be non-toxic. But us RV'ers never try it. In fact, we very rarly ever use the water in the onboard system for consumption. It can sometimes sit a while and get stagnant or grow nasties. It's generally just used for washing and flushing the toilet. The idea behind the RV antifreeze is to prevent the pipes and pumps from freezing up and being damaged.

For drinking we use bottled water.

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), October 30, 1998.

Several years ago our cats started acting drunk (falling over, throwing up), so I called the vet hospital. The vet told me to bring them in right away and checked for propaline glycol. She also told me a story about two down and outers who went on a binge on a bottle of anti-freeze that they had found. One of them couldn't afford to keep binging after they finished the bottle and died. The other had enough to get a bottle of cheap hootch and the alcohol saved his life. She said that both alcohol and p-glycol have an affinity for the same receptors, but alcohol's affinity is stronger and shorter, so it will block out the p-glycol, then lets go itself. P-glycol never releases the receptors that it blocks (I think she said in the kidneys, but I really don't remember), so it will kill mammals. She also said that the treatment of choice for p-glycol poisoning is alcohol. Have another - hic!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), October 31, 1998.