Wanting to purchase a 1992 Dodge Cherokee -- how do I tell if it'll be compliant? Is there a site with general info on vehicles?

-- Willa Fernets (willaf@hotmail.com), December 12, 1998

Answers

Speaking as a technician at a GM dealership with a bit of experience with computerized vehicles, I would offer the following simple check: Unhook the battery and see if the clock in the radio display keeps it's time or needs to be reset. If the clock keeps it's time setting, there may be a problem, if not, it's probably OK.

-- Bill S. (arlene@inreach.com), December 13, 1998.

Sorry Bill, but no.

A realtime clock can be kept running for decades on a small-battery (hearing-aid style; look for the metal disk in a holder on a PC motherboard). It can be kept running for many hours or days on a capacitor. On some modern RTC chips, the battery is integrated into the chip! Therefore, disconnecting the vehicle's battery is not a meaningful test.

Rule of thumb no. 1; if there's no electronics of any description in the vital systems (fuel control, emissions control, braking control) then it's compliant. Most old vehicles pass this test. Ones that were cheap and/or old designs at time of sale are more likely to pass than up-market or new designs. It's easy enough to tell by looking at the wiring schematics.

Rule of thumb no. 2, if you're prepared to look at the electronics boards; if there's no realtime clock chip there, it doesn't know what the date is and so can't fail because it's 1/1/2000. You need to be an electronics wiz to do this, or trust that someone at the auto company has done the check for you.

Apart from this, you have a LOT of work to do to establish compliance.

Despite these points, I think it unlikely that many cars are noncompliant. (Trucks may have greater problems). An RTC is not necessary to the function of the vehicle, so good engineering (and probably economics) would have designed it out. Even if present with on-board backup power, in order to disable the vehicle the RTC or the control software must be faulty in such a way as to permanently disable the vehicle after 2000. Most likely faults would cause a brief glitch for a short time exactly as the chip passes through midnight, then resume normal operation.

None of which helps if it's your vehicle that's the exception (and especially not if you're going at high speed when the engine glitches)! Only way I can think of to be SURE is to buy a pre- automotive-electronics-rust-bucket as your backup transportation. (Also this gives you safe storage of an extra tank of fuel which vould come in handy :-)

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), December 14, 1998.

Jack your car up onto a stand so that the driving wheels can spin freely, run your car at max revs till it clocks over into 2000, stop then try to restart.

Look of course there's not going to be a problem with starting cars in y2k, you may not have any gas, but you'll be able to start it.

-- Richard Dale (rdale@figroup.co.uk), December 14, 1998.

"Only way I can think of to be SURE is to buy a pre- automotive-electronics-rust-bucket as your backup transportation."

That's the way I see it too. Also, walking, horses and bicycles for local movement as well. Amish style. Besides the 'will there be gas' is the question will travel be limited (Martial Law). There isn't much info from the big three auto makers...still...The car salespeople, whom we all trust completely, don't have a Y2K clue either. The only company that I have heard even mention specifics is Saturn - where they found and supposedly fixed Y2K related problems with the power-train.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 14, 1998.

One other thing: Some folks are going for a new vehicle with a lease that will expire soon after Jan 2000. It was either Gary or Ed that mentioned leasing on the Art Bell show. I guess the reasoning behind this it that if you do not own the car you do not own the problem. Any thoughts on this?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 14, 1998.

Don't count on being able to just turn your leased vehicle back in any time you decide to. I've had a very bad experiences with leases. After paying for 3 years (never missing a payment), the company (a GM dealership) tried to screw me. According to the fine print, if the value of the vehicle is less than the residual amount, you have to pay the difference. What they don't tell you when you sign the lease, is that the dealership are the ones that get to decide what your vehicle is worth when you return it and that is not fair market value, but rather the black book value. In a nutshell, it's very easy to get into a lease, but a heck of a lot harder to end it. Don't just assume you can drive you vehicle onto the lot and hand the keys over.....you may have a surprise.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), December 14, 1998.

Thanks for the info Craig. Do you think it makes sense to get a 1 year lease, (Jan 99 to Jan 00) with eyes open to fine print, and keeping in mind about geting screwed by the dealership when the lease is up, as a trade-off to serious Y2K potential problems with the car, or is it just not even worth it.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), December 14, 1998.

Nigel, I think you missed my point. Unhooking the battery is a quick and dirty test for the presence or absence of a RTC. On GM vehicles, the time keeping function displayed on the radio come from the main computer if it has that capability. If not then time is kept by a simple clock built into the radio.

-- Bill S. (arlene@inreach.com), December 14, 1998.