Can anyone recommend a good source for medical suture kits. What kind, how many? Also, where can I learn how to properly (or at least adequetly) suture wounds? Thanks

Finally, what about 'medical super glue'? Practical? Available in the US without a prescription?

-Arnie

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), December 22, 1998

Answers

There's an excellent, detailed, and medically correct description of treating a gunshot wound, including suturing, in Jame Wesley, Rawles "Triple Ought".

-RC

-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), December 22, 1998.

I have seen them in the NitroPak catalog. I think you can find them at www.nitro-pak.com

-- Timothy (trebman@megavision.com), December 22, 1998.

Nitro-Pak's web site is under construction - barely there at all really. But of all the things that are there, the one that isn't is their phone number. Amazing. Anyway, I tracked it down via four11.com and have ordered a catalog.

Their address and phone phone anyone else who might be interested is:

Nitro-Pak Preparedness Center
151 N Main St 
Heber City, UT 84032 
(435) 654-0099 

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), December 22, 1998.

Arnie:

Veterinary supply catalogs (like Jeffers) have suturing supplies. Get as much as you can afford, in as many sizes as possible.

Suturing isn't difficult -- but you need to go through specific steps and make sure you eliminate as many sources of contamination as you can (sterile conditions are preferred, obviously). Anybody who is relatively handy, fairly confident, and can tie a knot can suture a wound.

The resulting scar won't be pretty -- but it's better than being dead.

Be sure you include tetanus vaccine (toxoid and antitoxin) in your health kit, even if it's the animal-variety. Some is better than none.

Get a couple of boxes of disposable latex or plastic gloves. Use them where ever you might be exposed to another's body fluids.

If you figure you're going to be sewing on strangers or family members with illnesses, you'd be wise to invest in Hepatitis B vaccination for yourself NOW....it takes several months to take all the shots. Hep B is spread in blood, and I can assure you that you will be sticking yourself with a contaminated needle at one time or other.

If y2k is TEOTWAWKI, some people have expressed caution about sewing on people whose medical histories are unknown.....too darn many blood-borne fatal illnesses for which there are no vaccines. If you are the family's only cutting/sewing person, there may be ethical/moral questions about risking yourself and exposing them to illness.

This whole y2k sure makes us think, doesn't it?

Anita Evangelista (RN)

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), December 22, 1998.

Uh....also, any books on "field medicine" or military medic manuals might have basic instructions. Otherwise, used book stores -- look for surgery books.....you'll get more info than you EVER wanted to know.

Vets locally use plain ol' supermarket variety superglue for animal wounds....One vet told me that the glue has antibacterial properties (probably glues the little guys in place), and he has used it on horses (which are notoriously likely to develop infections), without complications.

For pain control, if you can clean and suture immediately after the wound, you'll have natural endorphins pumping to reduce the pain of the area -- but otherwise, you'll have to either tie your victims down or provide some other relief. One RN friend uses Anbesol (tooth pain reliever) when he has to sew his dogs -- not great, but better than nothing. Effects are temporary. Don't forget the value of distraction (chanting, prayer, "biting the bullet", hypnosis, singing, counting....screaming....)

Include antibiotics in your health-kit. After stitching any wounds, put the sufferer on antibiotics or make them eat four or five BULBS (not cloves) garlic every day until the wound has closed and is not leaking, oozing, swelling, etc. Watch for fever (not a good sign), hot spots, redness, bad smells.....if these occur, the problem is getting worse....

Yikes! Haul out the Mercks!

Anita E.

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), December 22, 1998.

Arnie, try:

Emergency Food Pantry PO Box 115 Rockingham, NC 28380 888-966-3663

They have expedition medical and first aid kits, dental kits, and suture kits. Without digging for a catlog, I believe the dental kits are under $30, the suture kits about $45. Don't hold me to the prices.

-- rocky (rknolls@hotmail.com), December 22, 1998.

Superglue is okay for relatively minor wounds of the skin and subcutaneous tissues. Anything deeper than a 1/4" should be sutured. Practice on a whole chicken from the market. The number one rule is to thoroughly wash the wound out. Soap and clean water are key. As an emergency measure, duct tape closes a wound nicely!

-- RD. ->H (drherr@erols.com), December 22, 1998.

1)Find yourself a good, older, SA or PA (Surgeon's Assistant or Physician's Assistant). (Or a surgeon) They will be able to teach you what to glue, what to suture, and what NOT to close. They will also be able to teach you how to prep/debride (clean - in terms of tissue removal) a wound.

2 If you are uncomfortable using the needle on a person, you may improvise a wound closure with two strips of adhesive tape, a needle and some thread. For clarity in description, we'll use 2" tape, but once you have the concept, I'm sure you'll understand that the width of teh tape is marginally significant.

a) tear two strips of the 2" tape the length of the wound. b) Fold 1/2" of the tape back on itself, sticky side to sticky side. You now have a 1 1/2" wide strip, with 1" of it sticky and 1/2" not. c) Place teh strips parallel (-2sp) to each other, on opposite sides of the wound, with the non-sticky sides toward the wound. d) Thread your needle. (You may go ahead and boiil the setup, or not,as you WILL be using somethikng like Neosporin, BPN, Bacitracin, etc. on the wound) e) Apply a layer of the NEO.(or BPN, etc.) and begin sewing the tape strips together, or, rather pulling them towards each other with the needle and thread. Kind of like lacing your shoes from scratch. Be carteful to pull the tapes evenly so that the scar will NOT be quite so noticeable as it would with large bumps and twists.

cr

PS Get a copy of at LEAST ONE of the following:

Medicine for Mountaineering

Whe(re) (n) there is no Doctor (It's one or the other Where or When)

Barefoot Physician

c

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 22, 1998.

DUUUH . . . . .PS:

The views expressed in the previous post are not meant in any way to replace the instruction of a competent PA, SA, or Physician.

Nor are they sufficient in and of themselves for treating an open wound.

The long version of "Your mileage may vary"

Chuck

-- Chuck a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), December 22, 1998.

it was stated above that a laceration less than 1/4" deep could probably be super glued in place, but if it was greater than that it should be sutured. If not sutured, it could also be taped. Wouldn't taping a lac that deep make it much more prone to abscess? Not a good thing to have on top of everything else. Also, wouldn't good old iodine (available cheap in pharmacies) be a good thing to have in a med kit for cleaning out wounds? I noticed Cheaper Than Dirt has suture and dental kits for cheap. 888-625-2506 www.cheaperthandirt.com their general suture kit is 3.95. They also have many other survival type stuff for sale

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), December 23, 1998.

While looking for mercurochrome [sp?] at my local megachain drug store, I noticed that a) there wasn't any and that the staff didn't know what it is, and b) that there is something called betadine, which is a hospital wound cleaner.

I personally keep lots of hydrogen peroxide around, but intend to stock up on betadine as well, even if the stuff isn't as kind to cuts and abrasions as mercurochrome.

One little tip for anybody who does find some/use mercurochrome and has little kids around who scrape their knees and elbows: paint it on like a temporary tatoo [like a butterfly, or a face design]. Distracts the kid from the pain, and the entire area gets a good swabbing

-- Karen Cook (browsercat@hotmail.com), December 23, 1998.