# # # 19981230--[Transportation]"TRAINS IN WAR" HIST Channel--6:00-7:00AM[ET]

Viewing "TRAINS IN WAR" ( (c)1997 ) prompts contingency strategies:

. Build ( analog ) light rail train spurs/networks. . Run low-tech Medical/Hospital rail cars. . Build inventory of low-cost, light rail steam engines. . Analog contingency for Central Traffic Control ( CTC ). . Prioritize: water, food, medical, fuels, raw materials.

It's amazing how the course of human history has been affected by rail trains through the American Civil War, WW-I, WW-II, to the present.

Any further thoughts prompted along this ( rail ) line? Where will this pre-Y2K "track" lead to? ...

Regards, Bob Mangus # # #

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus@mail.netquest.com), December 30, 1998

Answers

Bob,

The best site I know of on the history of trains is:

http://www.rrhistorical.com/index.html

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), December 30, 1998.

Bob,

Trying to draw a parallel between trains in war and Y2K doesn't seem to work. I do see similarities with the world today and post-Y2K and one item highlighted in your post: steam locomotives. Steam engines (locomotives and stationary engines) were once THE form of power in our world. Now out of the thousands in use there are but a few museum pieces. Compare this to Y2K.

With the steam locomotives, there is no longer any supporting infrastructure. Just check with anyone concerned with organizing a steam locomotive operated excursion train. In places where steam was king, there are no longer any coaling facilities, coal suppliers ("Joe's local fuel company. You want HOW MANY tons of coal?"), watering facilities (call the fire department for a couple truckloads of water), firebox ash dumping pits, and especially: no specialized maintenance facilities, tools and the skilled people to use them.

All those things were scrapped or bulldozed when the steam locos were scrapped in favor of diesels, forty or more years ago. The remaining steam operations today are, as I think of it, good examples of what Y2K will leave us with. Islands of the past in a world where those technologies, tools and skills are lost to the population at large.

I don't know if this is the direction you thought this thread would go

-- wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), December 30, 1998.

Trading diesels for steam to use for railway motive power is not the answer. Diesel/electric locomotives may have many computer controlled systems, but the basic design doesn't have to be computerized. Diesels like the EMD F3 and F7 that killed the steam engines in postwar America did not have a single digital system in them. It hadn't really been invented yet. They won over steam because of their inherent simplicity and maintainability. They were actually much LESS complex than the vastly more powerful steam locomotives they replaced. Fewer maintainance hours per road hour, less complex infrastructure required as described in a previous post, etc. In addition to the railroads' end user experience, diesels were probably also cheaper to build for the manufacturers due once again to their lack of complexity when compared to the Northerns and Challengers and Pacifics that ruled the rails in the 1940's. As an aside, only one steam locomotive builder that I know of made the transition to the diesel era: Alco. All the rest withered away with their declining sales. Even Alco ceased production some time ago although you can still find a few Alcos still in use here and there. Everything else is EMD (GM) and GE. James Watt's steam engine may have been relatively simple but 20th century steam locomotives most definitely were not. Still love 'em, though. I've got a tape of the SP's GS-4 Daylight in action that mesmerizes the nieces and nephews (and myself!) everytime we watch it. There's just something about a steam engine that people love.

-- YourFullName (email@ddress.com), December 30, 1998.

Any of you history/philosophy types familiar with PBS' Connections series, moderated by James Burke? Just finished watching the 10th video in the series with the kids and it sparked an interesting discussion on complexity, technology and potential impact of any breakdown. If you can track it down, it is well worth it (our library has it).

-- Maria (encelia@mailexcite.com), December 30, 1998.

"Steam engines. . .were once THE form of power in our world."

Think about it. They still are!

Except for hydro-electric (dams) power stations, we generate our electricity with steam engines whether we make the steam with coal, oil, natural gas or even radioactive fuel.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), December 31, 1998.