Ok, here is the problem. I live near Tampa, Florida in an apartment complex (1 bedroom) off the road with several ponds on the premises. I get a decent salary (43K). Its enough to get by but really not enough to buy up the store tommorrow. Since I am only 1 1/2 years out of college, I have some substancial bills monthly that take it up.

I am some what concerned because of low cost housing one mile to the west and a mall 1/2 mile to the east. I can't afford to buy a house. What is the best way to get prepared. Here are my thoughts.

- Communicate to my neighbors in the complex and set up community rules and a community militia. (somehow I don't think the property mngrs will like that one but hey..)

- Buy 20 cans of food every trip to the store.

- Get extra jugs of water ready and store them in the bathroom.

- Move to a two bedroom for extra storage.

- Multi-fuel stove and several 5 gallon containers of gas.

- 5 gallon Canasters of rice (if the third world can live on rice...)

- Blankets.

- Water Purification Tablets and maybe a Water Purifyer.

- Cyphons - (make that pond useful for flush water and to barter for gas)

- Shotgun. Both intimidation factor and if need be, hunting.

- Backback and very light travel kit if I need to go in a hurry.

- Lanterns and fuel.

What else am I missing. I am purposely staying away from a generator. I live in an apartment, and since it is Florida, I probably won't freeze to death.

-- Matt Bonner (Bonnermc@hotmail.com), January 04, 1999

Answers

Sounds good, unless you believe in a Paul Milne scenario (10+).

For low cost, I think the trick is to concentrate on staying alive, and not try to re-create everything you have now.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous.com), January 04, 1999.

Don't forget basic safety rules.

>- Multi-fuel stove and several 5 gallon containers of gas.

>- Lanterns and fuel.

Is the fuel safe to store indoors? Do you have outside storage?

See other threads about safety issues. A couple are:

Isn't it unsafe to use camp stove & heater indoor?

Looking for fuel expert

-- No Spam Please (anon@ymous.com), January 04, 1999.

Chemical toilet and lots of TP. The TP will be a great barter item.

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), January 04, 1999.

Looks pretty good except for a few things. The community approach, especially the "militia" idea, will likely only get you noticed in the *wrong* way. Be discreet in general but calm and helpful with those who seem interested. Buy lots and lots of canned food. Aldi's has veggie cans for $0.30, beans for the same, and canned fruit for about$0.60. Plus it's good for about two years after date of purchase. No excuses for running out of food at those prices. The last is watch out for the type of cooking or lighting equipment you buy. Gasoline or Coleman "white gas" type devices are not suitable for indoors as the fuel is extremely volatile. Kerosene units are a much better choice. PS- One final thing is just a comment about the shotgun. If you know guns and are comfortable around them, fine. If you are not, but plan to purchase one anyway, please take the time to get familiar with it at a range with an experienced instructor. A 12 gauge, depending on the load, is very, very lethal at short ranges and there is no do-over. Tragedies involving family and friends happen all the time and owning a shotgun is a serious responsibility. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, just a note of caution.

-- YourFullName (email@ddress.com), January 04, 1999.

Matt: I'm in a similar situation, except I'm in Los Angeles, Cal. I'm staying here because I can't afford to leave my job so I'm preparing as best as I can. I was in this building when the '92 riots erupted. When the rioters got to about 5 miles away from here (evening), the building's manager blocked the entrance and had all security and maintenance staff guarding the lobby and garage. By late evening fires could be seen 3 blocks away and a few of the neighbors had also volunteered (unasked) to guard the entrance from the mezzanine that overlooks the lobby. There was so much firepower guarding that entrance that any group of looters would have been toast before getting near the door. The next day the management hired extra armed security guards. From our windows we could see smoke plumes all around but our building was untouched. Apparently other apartment buildings in the neighbourhood did the same.

This makes me think that something similar will happen if riots erupt because of Y2K, so I feel relatively safe in here. My only concern is fire. Hopefully my neighbours will be careful with any open fires. That's why when you live in an apartment is especially important to be very prepared for fires, think of all scenarios, know what to do.

The gun idea is okay if you're comfortable with it, but it's better to prevent someone from coming through the door. Get one more lock/chain/ wedge for the door. I also have one of those alarms that go off whenever somebody touches the door.

I'm sure that by spring or summer Y2K can be openly discussed with your building manager and security/safety plans can be arranged. Of course, you don't have to disclose the fact that you have a "stash." The L.A. riots happened without warning and people pulled together very nicely. Surely you manager/neighbors can come up with plans months in advance.

-- DD (stuck@insame.com), January 05, 1999.

> Bottles of bleach (cheaper than water purification tabs) and copy of FEMA and canadian government guides on how to use it to sterilize water.

> Candles more reliable than fuel lamps. If depending on the latter, LOTS of spare mantles!

> Torches and batteries (lots of!). Spare bulbs.

> matches and lighters

> Spaghetti (makes a change from rice). Beans, lentils.

> Candy bars / Granola bars / other confectionery. Good for morale and barter as well as being full of calories!

> Multivitamin tablets and vitamin C tablets (since tinned and dried foods tend to be vitamin-deficient. Or do oranges grow nearby even in winter?

> Dried fruits (raisins, apricots, etc). Nuts (keep best still in shells).

> Battery-powered radios > Personal cassette or CD player (good for morale during dark hours!)

> If it ever gets cold (<5C) in Florida, a sleeping bag is a lot warmer than normal bedding. Also more portable.

> Toilet tissue

> Lots of polythene bags (trash size, food storage size). > Clingfilm (poly-wrap? don't know USA name)

> Glucose, salt, KCl ("lite salt") and Sodium Bicarbonate. Get recipe for DIY rehydration fluid. This may sound like a TEOTWAWKI measure, but the ingredients are real cheap and can save lives.

> Fire extinguisher and/or fire blanket in case a lamp gets spilled.

> Toolkit.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), January 05, 1999.

I have lived in that area. You begin your plan on a bad foundation. That area is totally dependant on food shipped in, and water piped in. In a good year water gets tight. In a bad scenario that area is not survivable in any reasonable way.

The only thing that supports the economy is white collar business and service industry. Neither will do well in a mild economic crash scenario.

There is also a VERY STRONG body of underclass/drifter/poor whatever you care to call them this week.

Look at North/mid Florida if you HAVE to stay in that area. Property is cheap and you can get a few acres with a mobile tin can on it for cheap. Call it a 'vacation' home.

Where you live now is not going to cut it. Plan on leaving.

-- Art Welling (artw@lancnews.infi.net), January 05, 1999.

I have to agree with Art.In the first place, hiring people to defend the building probably won't be possible. That leaves you with just the tenants.If they aren't armed and proficient at it,it's hopeless.Get a map and draw a radius on it of at least 50 miles out from Tampa. Drive around out in the more less inhabited areas and find somewhere you can park a camper or small mobile. Maybe on a farmers land or network on the boards to find someone. Someone already preparing is best as they will protect your stuff when you're gone.Spend your weekends getting this place ready. Good luck from a Floridian who will be long gone.

-- sue (deco100@aol.com), January 05, 1999.

Medicine - band aids, stomach medicine, triple antibotic ointment, the anti-bacterial handwash, alcohol, witch hazel, cotton gauze, that syrup that makes you throw up, diarreha meds, iodine, tape,

vitamin c and peanut butter

s

-- Sharon Schultz (shalom100@aol.com), January 05, 1999.

Matt,

Definately move if you can--best place is a two story/duplex landlord owned house. Don't tell your neighbors anything.

Get a kerosene cookstove (do a search for kerosene, lots of sites)

I read in a survival book that if you boil water for 15 - 20 minutes it will be free from whatever, it just won't taste that good, so get some ice tea mix or something

Get one of those "shower in a bag" that they sell for campers. Get soap!

Pocket knife, super glue, duct tape, flint, whiskey, lanterns, instant cofffee/tea

And definately get something to occupy your time. I have a feeling after a few days without electricity and staying in the house, we are going to be bored, like those guys in foxholes in wwII movies.

-- Sub-Mitt (lurking@ofcourse.com), January 05, 1999.

Thanks for all the good advise. I did some research today and found several good websites with lists of what to buy.

http://cassandraproject.org/indprep.html

I am not personally confident in having a gun. When hurricane Andrew hit here, I read about people standing outside there door with a BIG Shotgun pointed at the air. They didn't move and the rioters passed them by. But, if you don't plan on using it or don't feal confident in using it, a gun might be a bad descision.

Moving. Florida is probably not the best choice of living locations. However, I am in no position to tell my work, I quit and I am moving to the country to become a farmer. But because of that fact, I suppose it would be best to have extra food on hand. One thing most people don't know about Florida is that it has the more Cows than any state in the Union. You can't drive 10 minutes without seeing a cow, even from a downtown area. Florida does have a few other staples of food that are in season, strawberries and Oranges, during the first part of the year. Though I don't think you can live on it, its there. Again, thanks for all the advise.

MB

-- Matthew Bonner (Bonnermc@hotmail.com), January 05, 1999.

Note on Vitamin C: tea made from pine needles has more C than orange juice. In the old days sailors used to drink it to avoid scurvy. I've tried it and it ain't bad.

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), January 09, 1999.

Hi Matt.

I am also trying to Y2K prepare on a budget. I understand what it's like to try to think of everything, too little too late.

Except I'm trying to prepare to help about 150 other people in a HUD-apt complex across the street, most elderly and children (or not very inclined to work apparently), which is really contributing to my no-time no-money panic factor, alas. And probably others in the town. The local rednecks think Y2K is a problem the computer geeks made up just to try to scare them. And they've all got guns. Sigh. So I may as well prepare as best I can to share with my small town since getting shot early on (a california computer geek new in a little texas town during Y2K, good move eh!) would be the other option, probably.

In my research for solutions I've noticed one thing that you might consider especially in Florida. (Note: I second, and third, all comments about getting the hell out of the city and an apt. complex, first.) There are many plants and herbs that can be grown indoors near a window that are very useful for a myriad of things -- medicinal purposes, edible purposes, practical purposes. While they do take water, last time I was in FL (Clearwater) it rained most days in the winter, for a brief time, so that might not be too big an issue.

The Cassandra project is a great resource.

I've had lanterns; the little net-things are so fragile that I went through them at the speed of light. I suggest an aladdin-type lamp and lamp oil, and candles with sturdy holders -- and changing your sleep schedule to match daylight hours (get up earlier, go to bed later).

The idea of hunting in Tampa gave me quite a laugh, I must tell you. What are you going to hunt, trapped tourists? Someone else's cows? Gators? If gators, skip the shotgun and get a large gauge scope rifle... you don't wanna be that close before you shoot.

The gasoline I would avoid -- it's too flammable and smelly for an apartment, and if you're thinking of driving, think again -- if things are bad enough for all this to really be needed, you won't get far anyway (and "highway robbery" will finally revert to its original meaning). Propane is also VERY flammable, however, a proper container and fixture reduces that danger considerably (I've used it for years without trouble, in small quarters), and you can get a much larger container for your apt. that could run a little stove, a lantern (if you go with that idea) heater if necessary, etc.

Just thoughts...

A couple of "useful-herb" links:

http://www.keepsmilin.com/medherbs.html (This site has nice categorical collection for seeds)

http://www.scs.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/ (This info site lists some unique uses (shampoo? diapers? lifejackets?) for certain plants... also has a database that has info on a bazillion different plants, very useful)

Also, you can buy probably 10 kinds of dwarf fruit trees that would grow in an apt. in florida, as long as you've got a good window for light, and some species are made to bear fruit early/late in the season. If you have a patio, you could also plant a small garden this spring and in the fall/winter; I got a dehydrator at Wal-Mart for $20 before christmas, and plan to dehydrate lots of fruit and veggie slices as well as dry some useful herbs (though I don't know how well that will work in FL's humidity.) Freeze drying in your freezer, I saw a tip on that, slice apples (etc.) really thin, lay 'em in there (like on a cake-cooling rack), wait some days, a week, take one slice out. If they're not dried enough they'll turn dark pretty quickly. When one doesn't, they're done. Stick 'em in an airtight container and there you go... not much work except the slicing, and you have some time this year to buy fruits and veggies to do this sort of thing with. But, get the dwarf trees, if you're into that, NOW, as they're not always sold and this is the season for 'em.

PJ

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@zmatrix.com), January 10, 1999.