Something to think about (or not, as the case may be)

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Let's hope none of us ever experience this type of behaviour first hand:-

From The Sunday Times, London, England

"CLUTCHING her baby to her, Kim Soon-Hee shuddered as she described the desolation she had escaped in North Korea, a country so severely afflicted by famine that some people have been reduced to eating children to survive.

Soon-Hee, 27, once enjoyed a privileged position as the daughter of a Communist party cadre in the town of Hoeryong. But as the hunger took hold, her family fell from favour. When reports of cannibalism began to circulate, she fled over the border into China.

Three local youths had been executed for selling a woman's flesh as meat, she said. "The woman was going to barter rice cakes at a market. The youths talked her into going with them, stole the rice cakes and then killed her. Afterwards they chopped her body up and made it look like pork."

Soon-Hee also echoed accounts reaching aid workers that abandoned children had been lured from the streets and killed for food. Some of her friends had had children they could not feed, she said. "They were desperate and thought that if they left them on the street, someone might take pity on them and they would have a better chance of survival.

"You have to understand that when you are starving, you go crazy. You can't think logically - you lose the power to reason. And children can stop looking like children. They can end up looking like prey."

The number of children killed by the starving is unknown, as is the overall toll of the famine. It has been estimated at 2m but a visiting team of American congressmen last August put it at anything from 300,000 to 800,000 deaths annually for the past three years.

Ruled for decades by Kim Il Sung - the authoritarian "Great Leader" whose power has been inherited by his son, Kim Jong Il - North Korea is one of the world's most secretive countries. Much of the evidence about what has happened there is coming from refugees who, like Soon-Hee, have reached China's autonomous Korean region of Yanbian. Their accounts are impossible to verify.

A teenager seeking shelter at an orphanage told staff there that she knew of children who had been caught and eaten, according to one uncorroborated report given to Midecins Sans Frontihres, the French aid organisation. The charity also recorded one account of a family in the border village of Pukchong who ate their own daughter after she died and another, from an 18-year-old witness, who said: "Our cousin killed, salted and ate an orphan who nobody cared about."

Link at

http://www.sightings.com/political/nkcannib.htm

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 05, 1999

Answers

Got milk?

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), January 05, 1999.


It was finger licking good.

-- WHOA (WHOA@knuckles.com), January 05, 1999.

WHOA you are sick. I limited my cuisine to what could be found on manure piles.

-- TTF (seenit@ww2.com), January 05, 1999.

TTF,

How many fly "drumsticks" does it take for a meal?

c

-- c (c@c.c), January 05, 1999.


Just got a flashback of the movie "Alive". Took me a while to get over that movie.

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 05, 1999.


c,

I was too hungry to take time to count them. I still have some of them stuck in my teeth. That's why I am so warm and fuzzy.

-- TTF (seenit@ww2.com), January 05, 1999.


You chappies are sick.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 06, 1999.

Andy -- Just checking out new and unique "post y2k" cuisine.

c

-- c (c@c.c), January 06, 1999.


Frozen Lean Cuisine(TM) dinners? Post Y2K, everyone will be lean no?

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 06, 1999.

"Getting to the meat of the matter"

"The bone in contention"

"Out of the frying pan and into the fire"

"I want to WOK you home"

"A few cutting remarks"

"Getting to know your neighbors"

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), January 06, 1999.



Cannibalism has a long and time honored tradition. The Aztecs would roll the bodies down the steps of those pyramid temples so they would break apart, and the people at the bottom would feast. Those pyramids have gutters for the blood. The tribes of central Africa were very into human flesh. I believe that much of the killing between Hutus and Tutsis has to do with that surpressed cannibalistic instinct. My mother has a cannibal fork that she brought back from the South Seas. It's a four pronged fork that they use to eat "long pig." I've visited the Carib Territory on the Caribbean Island of Dominica. The last known cannibals in the Western Hemisphere, into this century, were the Caribs. One of them was said to have remarked "I do not like eating Christians (meaning white people). They give me a bellyache." I don't think there's much of a cannibalistic tradition in Asia, however...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), January 06, 1999.

How about the old SF classic, the aliens land in apparent friendship, and are constantly consulting their ops manual How to Serve Mankind , until somebody swipes a copy, translates it, finds it to be a cookbook.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), January 06, 1999.

<< Cannibalism has a long and time honored tradition. The Aztecs would roll the bodies down the steps of those pyramid temples so they would break apart, and the people at the bottom would feast. Those pyramids have gutters for the blood. The tribes of central Africa were very into human flesh. I believe that much of the killing between Hutus and Tutsis has to do with that surpressed cannibalistic instinct. >>

Ah, you've got to love those "noble savages." What a bunch of beautiful people with sensitive, earth-friendly and deeply spiritual customs! What a shame Christianity came along and spoiled all their fun, huh?

-- Not To Worry (none_O_ur@business.com), January 06, 1999.


And we think Saddam is a d&*(ck.

-- Lisa (lisab@shallc.com), January 06, 1999.

Actually, Not to Worry, I suppose that would depend on your view of the world and your beliefs about the structure of the universe, as well as the cultural context for any given behavior.

The Korea example was simply the fact that a starving nation will not open its' borders or seek help from outside. It's not a normal cultural thing for Koreans to eat people. It is, on the other hand, a normal cultural thing for them to eat dogs. We would never allow that in this country.

In this country, for obvious reasons, people do not eat people. The few who do, (Jeffrey Dahmer? was that his name?) are criminals, and should be. We are a civilization based on the sanctity of the individual. One of the gifts of Christianity.

Meanwhile... "those "noble savages." What a bunch of beautiful people with sensitive, earth-friendly and deeply spiritual customs!"...viewed the world and the universe in completely different ways than we do. In that type of enculturation, if cannibalism for example, was practiced and accepted, then it was, well, acceptable. Pagan societies do not view the individual the same way. A practice like cannibalism may indeed have been a highly spiritual practice, to be done with the proper rituals, etc. Depending on a cultural view of the structure of the universe, it may even in fact have been a case of small sacrifices in order stave off larger scale destruction. Who knows?

So, the tough question is this. Completely stripping away your own enculturation, how can you be certain that a practice like cannibalism is a "bad" thing?

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), January 06, 1999.



ANDY SAY - EAT LEG - IT BAD TING - BAD TINGS HAPPEN IF YOU EAT LEG - ARM OK - IT GOOD TING - NO ARM IN IT AT ALL!!!!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), January 06, 1999.

I don't know if this goes for all cultures who practice/d cannibalism, but the ones that i have heard about did indeed do this for spiritual purposes. Most of these cultures believed in forms of ancestor worship-believing that ancestors had to be remembered, appeased, etc. Most of these cultures would burn the dead relative, and eat the ashes, mixed with some other type of food (a plantain soup, in the amazon, etc) which would be, for them, a taking in of the essence of the dead relative, so that they would never be forgotten by the tribe. It is not something our culture could imagine doing, but for someone of another culture, it is just something that is done. in this way, they know that their dead will be remembered and revered, just as they know that they themselves will be when they die.

-- Damian Solorzano (oggy1@webtv.net), January 07, 1999.

I can't believe this thread is this long and nobody's mentioned Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" (oops, now I have)'

Something he pointed out was that early Christians faced accusations of cannibalism with good reason - we do claim to eat the Body and drink the Blood of Christ.

Personally, in a situation like that in the Andes, if I died,I'd rather my body was put to use to save others lives, than not. On the other hand, I'd also prefer to be allowed to die in a manner which is normal now, rather than in what may become normal if cannibalism becomes widespread.

I continue to prepare for the worst and to pray for the best. (Are there 10 good men in our society?)

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), January 07, 1999.


If it came to a decision between eating dead people, and starving -I would be forced to choose not to starve. I would eat human flesh. I would not enjoy it and I would probably have nightmares of it for the rest of my life, but there would at least BE a "rest of my life".

I don't, however, think that I would kill -or assist in the killing of- another human purely in order to eat them. I would rather starve than do that.

--Leo

-- Leo (lchampion@ozemail.com.au), January 07, 1999.


SO!...it's all come down to this. This thread has finaly explained and clarified the difference between survavalists/GI's/doom-and-gloomers, and DGI's/Polyannas. The formers are cannibals, and the latters are not!(Now you know why there are also DWGI's! picky picky...)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 08, 1999.

A little "Soylent Green" on rice?

Feed the dead to your pigs, then eat the pigs. The circle of life.....

-- Bill (bill@microsoft.com), January 09, 1999.


(bill@microsoft.com);

>>Feed the dead to your pigs, then eat the pigs. The circle of life.....<<

Then, are you saying "feed the long pigs to the short pigs and then pig out on the short pigs?" Do I need a "hoggy bag" to carry any leftovers?

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), January 09, 1999.


S.O.B.,

BWAHahahahahahahaha! Had to save that one, but stop it your killing me!

c

-- c (c@c.c), January 09, 1999.


If Y2K is as bad as Infomagic et al anticipate, obviously human cuisine will be a rediscovered repast.

Ppl eat meat all the time. Billions on globe, many used to easy access food. In America the overweight are increasing. Translates into more & more people getting in habit of eating more than they need. When eating becomes a habitual addiction, the mind & body crave more & more.

When Y2K stops the easy greased food wheel, are these ppl going to settle for one thinned bowl of mush a day? I don't think it's such a far leap from the roasted chicken to the fire-spitted human thigh.

Ashton & I are vegetarians, and will not be sampling human rump roasts -- not because we won't be hungry, but because we'd rather slip away from this planet if the hordes turn to mobs, armed and hungry. Those with strong survival determination will not shy from sustaining human meat. The anarchic violence is what tips our decision.

This is not suicide, but event-forced starvation, a natural, sensible option to reject becoming a member of the roving ravaging rampaging rumbles. And not suicide by drugs, because the conscious exit is highly prized and desireable. Just fading away, if circumstances force it, and in an Infomagic or Milne etc. scenario, we will feel extremely blessed to be allowed to simply slip away without encountering far worse intrusions.

BTW, for an engrossing reading of cannibalism history and related ancient religious rituals, read Anne Rice's novels, which delve into alternative diets in a gripping manner ;-|_ Her chronicles/series also describe, in vivifying detail, the downfalls of past civilizations in such a way to make the reader immediately cognizant of future collapses and keenly thankful of the riches/conveniences we now enjoy.

Ashton & Leska in Cascadia, content with salads

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 14, 1999.


"This is not suicide, but event-forced starvation, a natural, sensible option to reject becoming a member of the roving ravaging rampaging rumbles."

Isn't it actually the opposite of suicide? Suicide stems from despair, no hope. Rejecting suicide but "fading away" in starvation implies HOPE one will find a suitable morsel to eat now and then, other than human flesh ;)

-- Chris (catsy@pond.com), January 14, 1999.


Chris, precisely! Which is why we've stocked the canned soups & sprouting seeds, etc. Hope is a stubborn light shining from the soul spark. :)

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), January 14, 1999.


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