Cris-crossing "contrails" over Los Angeles!! : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

I've been watching some weird cris-crossing contrails since 10 a.m. here in Los Angeles. I woke up at 10 and when I looked out my window, there they were. And they I saw a new one forming, and then amother, and another. They formed gridiron patterns and then a couple of times the planes were heading for each other at an angle, creating an "X". Got out my telescope and determoned that the plane making them is NOT a regular commercial airliner. These planes are a bit smaller and flew very fast. The "smoke" is comming out of of both sides of the plane. This has been going on for the past 2 and a half hours. Anyone knows what's going on??!!

-- DD (dd@home.worried), January 15, 1999


Is this for real? Someone posted a link last week to an article about this. It said that people outdoors, under these jet trails, got sick; those inside were ok.

Is it just someone's idea of a joke? -- If so, that's life on the Web, & I can live with that; if not, then some weird shit is going on. Either way I would REALLY like to know. Please someone, verify!

-- what's going on (, January 15, 1999.

Look here. 1999L-01-12-01.html

-- Bill Sloan (, January 15, 1999.

Advice to DD: get your camera and take pictures. That's what I would do, can't understand why no one has done so yet.

-- a (a@a.a), January 15, 1999.

FWIW, I have also noticed unusual criss-cross patterns over Iowa on a couple of occassions in the past few weeks. Didn't really give it much thought at time. Didn't get sick. Don't know anyone who did. Didn't have a telescope so I can't tell you anything about the aircraft that made them.

Most (but not all) contrails across this state are basically east/west. A few flights out of/bound to Minneapolis are north/south but the regular 'grid' pattern I saw was a bit unusual.

I'm curious but not overly suspicious or concerned. I'll chalk it up to 'training exercises' unless other real evidence is forthcoming.

Do we have any ATC-knowledgeable among us?

-- Arnie Rimmer (, January 15, 1999.

Stay calm. Just calm down now. Don't put on your little aluminum-foil hat now (heh-heh!). It's just a military exercise in weather control. So it might kill a few old people - don't you think it's worth it in the long run? Like feeding orphans radioactive lemonade: we won the cold war, so what are you complaining about? You'd be speaking Russian right now if it wasn't for radioactive orphans. Don't be so paranoid, Fox Mulder (heh-heh!). Here's some more info:

MYSTERIOUS SPAYING SAID TO BE SECRET-MILITARY OPERATION The Environmental News Service ( has a follow-up to their report about multiple sightings around the U.S. of massive grid-work patterns in the sky being created by fleets of jets that fly back and forth and spray down a material that seems to make people ill. (see In their follow-up [1], ENS interviews Thomas Farmer, an ex-Raytheon Missile Systems engineer who's been tracking the mysterious spraying incidents for over a year. Farmer has confirmed that jets used to spray are Air Force jets, and he's made several collections of the cobweb-like, or "angel hair," material the jets are spraying out, which made him, just like many others, sick after contact. It appears to be a substance used to seed (build) clouds. ENS reports that Farmer is "fairly certain the contrail phenomena is one part of a military weather modification weapons system." The ENS report then observes that a sub- set of the military plan to use weather as a weapon and create a "Weather Force," is massive cloud-seeding that will work in with the HAARP antenna in Alaska, which is the U.S. military's primary weather-weapons system, which can exert effects on locations across the earth. The openly-stated goal for the U.S. military is to "own the weather" [2] by year 2025 and to thereby be able to bring target populations to their knees by "storm enhancement," "storm modification," and being able to "induce drought." [1] So rather than natural laws of solar-heating and earth-rotation directing the weather, the weather will be determined by who is pleasing or displeasing our military masters, or then again, perhaps power does not really corrupt. A U.S. military webpage [3] states that weather modification by the military is intended to allow for "storm triggering/enhancement using airborne cloud seeding." That military webpage also says: "A global network of sensors provides 'weather warriors' with the means to monitor and accurately predict weather activities and their effects on military operations. A diverse set of weather modification tools allows manipulation of small- to-medium scale weather phenomena to enhance friendly force capabilities and degrade those of the adversary. Many of the sensors required for this system are assumed to be...part of the global information management system (GIMS)..." Apart from allowing for an Orwellian-weather tyranny, military-weather control could lead to environmental catastrophe, since the desire to exert control will conflict with and overpower rational environment con- siderations, particularly if control is directed under the cover of military secrecy. Deliberate large-scale modification of the weather must be the most dangerous thing we could do to our planet, and it appears that military-weather-control planning is being done in secret, outside the realm of democratic oversight, just where it needs to be for the worst outcomes! [1] Read The Full Environmental News Service Report "Mystery Contrails May Be Modifying Weather" (1/12/99): [2] Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025: [3] Military Weather Analysis and Modification System: After my first message on this topic one person replied saying the grid pattern of contrails appeared in their area in Idaho and 13 people (mostly old) died shortly there after. Another person responded saying they've seen unique grid-work contrail patterns in Georgia. From: Ian Goddard

-- E. Coli (, January 15, 1999.

well, its sounds sinister...but look at the bright side - the weatherman may actually be accurate for a change.

-- a (a@a.a), January 15, 1999.

Calm down D. Im quite sure they do LOTS of things we dont know about.

Lets check out some of Es links first.

The other thread:

What the hell is going on in this country ? 000NJm

-- Diane J. Squire (, January 15, 1999.

Seems to me that Mother Nature kicked our butts for so many years (from Cro Magnon times forward) that we hate Mother Nature's guts and now we're on top so we're gonna knife Mother Nature in the throat and go hurtling off the cliff together into the abyss.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), January 15, 1999.

The earlier story:


Contrails Mystify, Sicken Americans

By William Thomas

SEATTLE, Washington, January 8, 1999 (ENS) - Contrails spread by fleets of jet aircraft in elaborate cross-hatched patterns are sparking speculation and making people sick across the United States.

Washington state resident William Wallace became ill with severe diarrhea and fatigue after watching several multi-engine jets spend New Year's day laying cloud lines in an east to west grid pattern. A neighbor working outside came down with similar symptoms. But their wives, who remained indoors, suffered no ill effects from the inexplicable maneuvers which observers liken to high-altitude "crop- dusting" by unidentifed multi-engine aircraft. ...

D, take note: ... their wives, who remained indoors, suffered no ill effects.

Stay inside and take pictures.


-- Diane J. Squire (, January 15, 1999.

Looks like nobody else is stepping forward, so I guess I'm elected to be the voice of reason.

It's hard to reply seriously to such flagrant paranoia, but for starters, how in the world is anything in a contrail at 30,000 feet going to make you sick on the ground? By the time anything in the contrail reaches ground level, it'll be in another time zone and spread over three states. As for collecting spider-web like material, same objection.

That aside, what does this have to do with Y2K? Why are we trying to convince visitors that we're all lunatics here?

-- Ned (, January 15, 1999.

Ned, I just love weird stuff like this. Can you please point us to an NG that has good people like here, but is open to any weird topic ?

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), January 15, 1999.

I have been watching these "planes" flying over So Cal for months... lately they have been more frequent.

They do fly exceptionally fast and extremely high and the contrail actually is made up of two contrails. They can literally go from viewable horizon to horizon in about a minute and a half... figure that out someone, please. In fact, they are so fast that the contrail still remains AFTER the "plane" has flown out of sight.

Anyone able to do the math on that?

They've become so frequent that I now keep a pair of binoculars ready to catch them flying across the sky. Maybe I'll grab my video camera next time.

Mike ==============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, January 15, 1999.

::I saw the same thing the other day here in Oklahoma close to Tinker A.F. base; my son says he's been seeing them too.

-- Tony (, January 15, 1999.

I'm really having a hard time believing that anyone is taking this seriously, and at the risk of making a fool of myself by explaining the obvious...

When jet fuel burns, the principal products of combustion are carbon dioxide and water. Since it is cold at high altitudes, the water freezes into ice crystals, which, being the same material that clouds at these altitudes are composed of, are white.

The products of combustion come out of the jet engines. It has been found from long experimentation that having a jet engine on just one wing makes the plane dangerously unstable, therefore, when you have an engine on one wing, there is usually one on the other as well, and this accounts for the two contrails.

The fact that a contrail stays there for a long time is no more remarkable than that a cloud might stay there for a long time too. In fact, if it lingers for such a long time at an altitude of six or eight miles, don't you wonder how it could be simultaneously making people sick on the ground?

-- Ned (, January 15, 1999.

The voice of reason -I- hear tells me to check on E.s article. The voice of reason -I- hear tells me that a super-military power is super hungry for power, and if it thinks up starwars, super laser weapons, and already has the best gadgets in the world, it has thought of harnessing the power of the weather for its artillery.

The voice of reason I hear tells me that this world has gone mad.

-- Chris (, January 15, 1999.

>The voice of reason I hear tells me that this world has gone mad.

At least for this little corner of it, I can't argue with you.

-- Ned (, January 15, 1999.

Ned... maybe you're just not paying attention...

I never said this was some strange craft, a UFO or what have you. Your description of what makes up a contrail just makes the sightings more valid.

If you haven't seen this then you shouldn't make snap judgements.

Southern California is home to many high tech, military programs, military bases, etc. Southern California has had every kind of project that has come out of the Skunk Works fly over it. The SR-71 "didn't exist" either at one time but we all know very well it actually did.

If you read the initial post you wont find any reference to aliens, spacecraft or what have you.

When I do get the video together I'll send you a copy.

Mike ===============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, January 15, 1999.

Michael, you are quite right, you didn't claim they were UFOs. I was referring to some particularly outlandish claims in one of E's links,


My point is that there's absolutely nothing remarkable in planes leaving contrails. I've seen them all my life, and so has everyone else. What's the fuss?

-- Ned (, January 15, 1999.

Have any of you thought about photo reconsiance? I imagine that the military will need recent maps of the "120" cities that they are being charged with managing during the Y2K season.


-- Mike (, January 15, 1999.


For me, there is no fuss.

However, these contrails are different.

From my front porch I can look toward the San Bernadino mountains and actually see planes on approach to LAX. Just to the south is Long Beach Airport and commercial jets frequently fly over my home. There are numerous smaller airports in the area as well. I've been up in smaller craft and flown around the L.A. basin. I've flown out of LAX many, many times.

The point is that it's very easy to find jets and planes in the sky over L.A. It's even easier to understand the flight paths commercial airliners must use in the area.

What I am watching in the sky is not a commercial jet.

Last weekend I watched what seemed to be a single "plane" fly back and forth over Southern California about a dozen times. It was very high and moving exceptionally fast leaving a contrail each time that stretched from the horizon to horizon. It was much faster than a commercial airliner. It could very well have been an F/A 18, F/14, who knows...

DD... the bottom line is I have seen the same exact thing you have... I saw it today... I cooberate what you saw.

Mike ========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, January 15, 1999.

What you are seeing is the newest highly classified military jet spy plane AKA tha 'Aurora'. It is not wise to talk about this subject because... I'll be right back, someone is at the door.

-- Uncle Deedah (, January 16, 1999.

It's me again. I've read all of the replies so far. Now that I'm not in such a hurry to write a message, I'll expand a bit.

Okay, first of all, let me say that I have plenty of experience observing the sky. I'm what some of you might call a "stargazer," so I've seen all kinds of cloud formations and natural atmospheric phenomena, some of which some of you may have never heard about. I've also seen tons of contrails. Ned, trust me, the ones I saw this morning were very unusual. First, they were double. Second, the planes making them were not regular commercial planes. Third, I have never before seen the grid and "X" patterns they formed (for what purpose?)

Finally, and as Mike Taylor said, there are several airports in and around L.A. I'm quite familiar with the planes flightpaths because I have an excellent south-facing view from my window (which is always open). These planes were flying NW to SE and back, with some planes flying almost perpendicularly to cross the existing contrails. That't why I thought they were very unusual. I couldn't tell if the contrails were from horizon to horizon because I couldn't see the north sky, but they were going all the way to my southern horizon. This activity went on until about noon.

I must say, tho, I'm not familiar with different types of aircraft. Just passenger jets, which I have flown quite often. If these planes were military, I don't know what kind. But they were bigger than, say, an F-15, and smaller than a 747.

Finally, yes, I did take pictures, which was pretty difficult at times because the sun was shining so bright. Can't wait to show them to my more aircraft-savvy friends.

I appreciate all the responses to this, particularly the links to the articles. I was not aware other people had already reported about this. What to make of this? I don't know. But if the military is conducting some sort of training/recognizance exercise, I'd like to know about it.


-- DD (DD@home.wondering), January 16, 1999.


Over a hundred thousand concerned citizens today watched the skies, as flying saucers and military aircraft -the flying saucers using holographic disguise- fought it out in a tic-tac-toe tournament across the skies of America...

-- Leo (, January 16, 1999.

Nah Leo - it's "Celebrity Squares" - it is Hollywood after all :) Seriously, check out

this link for the latest scoop

-- Andy (, January 16, 1999.

If a correlation between the grid-laying overflights and illness on the ground overflown can be demonstrated, the question, "how can contrails laid at 30,000 feet reach the ground below?" may need rephrasing. Maybe these are not contrails (condensation of water vapor from combustion in the engines), but something else.

-- Tom Carey (, January 19, 1999.

Tom: You could be onto something. And I really don't think the planes altitude was 30,000 ft. Maybe 15 - 20,000 ?

-- DD (DD@home.puzzled), January 24, 1999.

Once again, Art Bell's radio show has left me quaking & shaking.

Art Bell's interview with William Thomas

-- Bingo1 (, January 26, 1999.

there are contrails like this over maryland every day when atmospheric conditions are right for them to form


-- ? (.@...), January 26, 1999.

Hopi Information Network
Yep, it says infomagic

Translation of the Hopi Prophecies sung in the film Koyaanisqatsi

If we dig precious things from the land,
we will invite disaster.

Near the Day of Purification,
there will be cobwebs spun back and forth in the sky

A container of ashes might one day be thrown
from the sky, which could burn the land
and boil the ocean.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (, January 28, 1999.

Are U.S. Planes Spraying Chemicals?


Are U.S. planes spraying chemicals?
Widespread illnesses reported in wake of contrails

By Jon E. Dougherty, ) 1999

Some people have respiratory problems. Others have mouth blisters.
Still others are chronically tired. Many people are suffering from a combination of these illnesses, coupled with weight loss, burning mouths and noses, hoarseness, dizziness and disorientation. And they say their symptoms can last for days and even weeks.

Reports say hospital emergency rooms in some areas of the country have been flooded with such patients, while talk radio programs have begun to discuss the phenomenon at length. The Internet is abuzz with theories, counter-theories, and any measure of explanation. But no matter what aspect of the story is debated, more and more people are beginning to dismiss the naysayers who insist it is nothing more than an elaborate hoax. It's real, say the infected and affected -- and it's getting worse. But what is going on?

Specifically, the focus of this mysterious "sickness" is centered around the observance of contrails -- trails of gaseous substances -- left in the wake of jet planes flying high above certain areas of the country. Observers on the ground have discovered, after several "patterns" of contrails have been produced by numerous planes making dozens of passes over an area, that a colorless web-like sticky substance falls from the sky, often generating sickness for many who come in contact with it. In other areas no such substance is reported, but scores of people have become ill nonetheless, presumably because the planes forming the contrail patterns are literally spraying some sort of chemical in the air.

Sources who have followed the phenomenon for over a year have claimed that the planes likely belong to the U.S. Air Force because of their type. Those planes -- KC-135s and KC-10 aerial tankers -- have been spotted "seeding clouds" -- a term used by the Air Force in ongoing weather modification research. Officially the Air Force denies it is involved in anything associated with the sightings, but some residents who have seen the contrails have reported changes in the weather (such as heavy rains) after the "seeding" is complete and the planes retire. No one knows where the planes are coming from or where they land when they're finished. However, one man says he is certain the phenomenon is weather-modification related, and is equally sure the Air Force is behind the testing.

Tommy Farmer, a former engineering technician with Raytheon Missile Systems, has been studying the jet contrail phenomenon for over a year, and he recently confirmed the number of reports coming in all over the country to the Environmental News Service. In a recent article, "Farmer said he has collected samples of what he calls 'angel hair' sprayed by the mystery aircraft on six occasions since February 1998. Four samples have been taken since November 1998."

According to one source, who requested anonymity, one sample taken supposedly contained elements of JP-8 -- jet fuel -- and Ethel Dibromide (EDB), a pesticide which was banned years ago because research showed prolonged exposure caused carcinogenic effects on humans. The source also said that another reportedly contained non-specific bacterial groups, but neither of these could be confirmed independently by WorldNetDaily

Other researchers have speculated that the epicenter of the "sky seeding" phenomenon is linked to an ongoing research project on weather-modification techniques funded by the Air Force. The project focuses on weather modification research and development, and the Air Force says the military can find ways to "own the weather by the year 2025." According to that report, Air Force researchers said that the United States military already retained the ability to control weather patterns "to some degree" with a technique known as "cloud seeding" -- the dissipation of chemical elements into the sky in an effort to produce a certain weather affect.

Continued research has shown that there may be a link between that project and the High Altitude Auroral Research Project (HAARP) project located in Alaska. The HAARP array, according to the Air Force and the Navy, which is co-developing the project, "is not weather modification," but is designed to influence jet streams and air patterns, and theoretically could be used in conjunction with sky seeding technology to produce a desired weather affect. According to one published report, HAARP "has for the past several years been using phased array antennas to steer powerful beams of tightly-focused radio waves to 'stimulate,' heat and steer sections of the upper atmosphere."

Reports have generated from Texas, New Mexico, Washington, Tennessee, and some other states -- all reporting similar contrail patterns in the sky and all reporting near-identical symptoms, suffered by a number of people in the area, accompanied by the sticky web-like residue.

One observer who contacted WorldNetDaily by email wrote, "We have been bombarded almost everyday with jets leaving contrails grids in the sky above us. I have never seen the spider web stuff really thick. It is just really constant; it is always around us. In the sky and all over the fences and trees."

Observers mostly report that jets make "X" patterns in the sky, sometimes dozens of them, often causing near zero-visibility in the sky and, in one case, "massive fog" on the ground. The planes are almost always described as jets, but one observer said the jets in an area in Texas were followed by "a smaller, thicker plane with propellers; flying at a considerably lower altitude."

Debra Mahon spoke with WorldNetDaily by telephone from her home about 35 miles north of Dallas, Texas. She said she became ill earlier this week with many of the same symptoms reported by others. Though her voice was hoarse and labored -- effects of the sudden illness -- she said the contrail phenomenon has been occurring in her area "for quite awhile."

She also reported seeing "thousands" of web-like strands falling from the sky after each "seeding." She described them as looking like "spider webs in the spring, but they disintegrate into nothing in your hand. They're not nearly as strong as real spider webs."

On a recent day, she and a friend were watching planes laying contrail patterns when suddenly "one plane we were watching just disappeared. We don't know where it went."

"I asked (my friend) if she had seen it too, and she told me she had but also couldn't explain it. I was almost afraid to bring it up. It is just so weird."

She said there was speculation among some who are analyzing these incidents that perhaps the government is releasing a certain biotoxin "in the hopes that you can build up an immunity against it, as if they're expecting it to be spread by some other method -- like a terrorist attack or something." She freely admitted she had no proof of "any of this," but said she and many others she has been in contact with "sure would like some answers."

She is not alone, but the phenomenon has not been officially acknowledged by any service branch of the military, or by the U.S. government. Calls to the Air Force were not returned.
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxx

-- Leska (, February 22, 1999.


I'm still seeing them here in So Cal nearly every day. Today the weather is beautiful and we have warm, strong, gusty winds coming from the desert (Santa Ana conditions). The planes and the contrails are no where to be seen. There were out yesterday though criss crossing across the sky.

Maybe it would just look too suspicious to try to manipulate weather under todays conditions?

One thing has been bugging me. What if these exercises are to build models for how a toxic cloud might move under various conditions? Thinking about that along with all the Antrax scares has me a little worried.

Thanks for the article!

Mike ============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (, February 22, 1999.

Dang,..did E. Coli really leave the forum? This old post reminds me because of his input. (drat)

Heard the Art Bell interview with some guy the other night on spraying of toxic substances from jet aircraft...creating contrails that STAY...opposed to the regular jet contrails that dissipate within a minute. I have no factual info...only the Art Bell reference as a reason for why this might become an issue.

BTW, the guy on the radio said that EVEN IF there was no toxic spraying going on with jet contrails...the exhaust from jet fuel was to be examined (of course) because of how the exhausted components of jet fuel degrade.

-- Donna Barthuley (, February 22, 1999.

Hi Mike & Donna, wish this weren't happening. For Pete's sake, can't they leave the *sky* alone! Man has tampered with the natural beauty & rhythm of the earth too much. Have never seen this contrail monstrosity ourselves, prolly cuz we're shut-in most of the time. But when free & not raining (the two don't seem to coincide), like to be outdoors. If this report is true, it's sick sick sick. Spraying sticky cobwebs of illness-producing pollutants? Does anybody have a conscience anymore? Oops, end rant ;-)

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xx

-- Leska (, February 22, 1999.

WOW !! Take a look at the picture in the link, read the above Hopi prophesy -- what a match! Awesome! Graphite webs,
"A woman removes a web of graphite covering her house after it was hit by a NATO "soft bomb" in last night's strikes on power plants near the village of Veliki Crljeni, outside Belgrade. The bombs spread graphite particles in the air, causing short circuts to a power grid."

Will somebody please paste that picture here now, fast!?? The URL will be worthless in a day or two. That picture is worth 1000 prophesies!

New deadly NATO mistake feared

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-- Leska (, May 14, 1999.

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