I'm back with yet another (hopefully eye-opening and useful to at least somebody) opinion poll...

 

What to do when the ammo runs out.

 

 

The potential for bad things to happen looms large in all our minds, and we appear to be preparing to at least some degree for it. But, let's assume for a moment that TS really does HTF, TEOTWAWKI becomes much more than what the average sheep, er, person thinks is some Indian name for some river somewhere, and the Mad-Max type environment asserts itself globally. Post-apocalyptic conditions right after a ten-plus global disaster.

 

 

If you own lots of ammunition and the firearms to use them, what do you plan to do once the ammo runs out? After all, it's a finite resource like anything else and reloading ammunition will become improbable and eventually impossible. Whatcha got in mind? (I plan to acquire a few decent, suitably robust short-swords. A good Katana can offset most anything non-gun...)

 

 

 

OddOne

 

-- OddOne (mocklamer@geocities.com), January 20, 1999

Answers

Maybe save one bullet...

-- Vic (68rdrunneris@compliant.com), January 20, 1999.

Learn to be invisible.

Not kidding.

Read Hienlien (sp?) book: Tunnel in the Sky.

Is a MUST read anyway, but explains this point well.

Greybear

-Got rocks?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), January 20, 1999.

OddOne;

Crossbow.

S.O.B.

-- sweetolebob (La) (buffgun@hotmail.com), January 20, 1999.

Swords, knives. And bows and arrows. Crossbows and bolts.

-- argh (argh@cutnslash.com), January 20, 1999.

I do'nt intend to let the ammo run out for a long long time. Primers are cheap now and the only thing that cannot be made by a person willing to reload. 20,000 primers will take a long time to run out. If you are not planning to remian in the middle of a large city. If you are planning to remain in the middle of a large city you will not have to worry about it, you wo'nt last as long as your primers.

-- Steve Watson (swatson1@gte.net), January 20, 1999.

Are you guys for real??? We're talking about a computer bug here - a fixable, manageable problem...and one that has mostly very minor date stamp type effects on embedded systems, NOT catastrophic failures of airplanes, power plants, etc.... Puleez, reality check.....beam me up Scotty, these imbeciles think Armageddon's a comin...lol

-- And you're not (me@reality.com), January 20, 1999.

I just had this discussion last night with a friend.

Remember the end of Road Warrior... they had only one gun, & only one bullet left, & only one chance to use it. Makes for a great film, but who wants to live that way?

Ammo's still cheap, btw. Check out www.cheaperthandirt.com

-- trigger unhappy (cringing@some.where), January 20, 1999.

Wrong question- the ammo will never run out.

As demonstrated by the previous replies, it will only change in nature from bullets to arrows to rocks.

The question should be, "Can we learn how not to shoot each other before we kill ourselves off?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), January 20, 1999.

Well said Hardliner. I think there's still a smitten of hope for us, but just a smitten.

--Not completely Insane, Just a little bit crazy

-- Other Lisa (LisaWard2@aol.com), January 20, 1999.

This is the kind of question that makes EVERYONE concerned about Y2K look like a craaazzzeeee. People see things like this and lump us all in with the nutsos like the oddone who asked this question.

"After the ammo runs out...What next?" Well, maybe we'll just have to learn to solve our problems WITHOUT killing each other. Betcha can't imagine that, huh "OddOne?"

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), January 20, 1999.

If you have 5000 rounds of ammo and use 10 rounds to stop one intruder and you shoot all of the ammo up that is 500 dead targets how many of these targets will have guns too and if they shoot at you how many times will they hit the targets? If you get lucky you can collect their guns and ammo maybe but do not bet on 500 people not knowing how to shoot all it will take is just one to collect your guns and ammo or what ever you have. HAPPY SHOOTING!!!!

-- Cowboy (6GUN@world.com), January 20, 1999.

OddOne, hope you know how to use that katana. Iaido practitioners tend to cut themselves seriously at least once in their career...a good katana is a weapon to be highly respected. If you do know how to use it, I feel sorry for anyone who tangles with you!

-- Shimrod (shimrod@lycosmail.com), January 20, 1999.

When and if that times comes i tell you that that would be a huge battle there will be brass as deep as my ass . so as others have said i will cross that bridge when i have to ,

i guess in all of history the chinese were lucky to have a gun powder store in china for them to buy all of that powder that they invented.

-- Ron (mongo@earthling.net), January 20, 1999.

Some thoughts:

1. Ammunition does not have to run out, at least not for a resolute, forward-thinking individual with some rudimentary knowledge of chemistry. Gunpowder is fairly easy to prepare, primers a bit more difficult but far from impossible. Blackpowder weapons can be manufactured in a small workshop, and electrical power is not necessary.

The key word above is *resolute*. If I've read correctly, everyone that has weighed in on this thread so far has tacitly agreed that one cannot manufacture ammunition. Not only is this flawed thinking, but it indicates a lack of willingness to do *all that is necessary* to survive.

2. Long after all the factory-made ammunition has been expended, I will most likely be adding yearly to my edged-weapon collection. Don't bring a knife, whatever its length, to a gunfight.

3. One thing I cannot understand: why do some seem people to care so much for what others think about "us", and why does someone's question about ammunition, albeit looking a bit far ahead, bother them so? I have seen too many people on this forum worried about what their friends and neighbors would say if they went ahead with prudent Y2K preparations (Yourdon even mentions this in his book, re: putting a *one month* supply of food away may cause your friends to think you're crazy). If you've informed your friends and neighbors about your Y2K preparations, you've already made a fairly bad mistake that you will most likely not be able to correct short of relocating.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 20, 1999.

I'll amswer that last question, Why2K...

I'm concerned about people's perceptions regarding this issue, because I know people, REAL PEOPLE, who look at something like the TIME mag piece and say "See, it's only the whackos who are care about this problem." Now when TSHTF these people will be totally unprepared and will be freaking out royally. I will not be in a position to help all these REAL PEOPLE, and neither will anybody else, and many of them will not be able to survive if it is truely TEOTWAWKI.

Now the more callous among us will say that "They deserve what they get" but this does not take into account the fact that their fate will affect me personally because I LOVE MANY OF THESE PEOPLE.

Do you?

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), January 20, 1999.

"Why",

The "flawed thinking" is in believing that a resolute individual will be able to survive (regardless of whether he can make black powder weapons or not) without the community of his friends and neighbors. I wonder how many men in our national history who thought they could "go it alone" died at the hands of a community of warriors with stone age tools and weapons. In my view, you're afraid of the wrong group of people.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), January 20, 1999.

Readiness to buy/use/shoot ammunition is not necessarily contradictory to community, interdependence and helping people. This is a non-linear challenge, like so much about Y2K.

Think Wild West. Community, cooperation (on one hand) and wildness, lawlessness and defense of personal property/life (other hand) were "jumbled" up together. And this will include defense of people we love, not just family either. That is what we would most likely see post-TEOTWAWKI.

All conditioned much by where one lives and the history of a particular region.

And conditioned by way "centralized" government acts. IMO, there will be less violence if government is smart enough to exert a light hand or is unable to exert a heavy hand. Comes to the same thing.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), January 20, 1999.

right on the money Hardliner and Big Dog! if nothing else everybody has got to sleep sometime...

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), January 20, 1999.

pshannon:

If people fail to prepare, it is certainly not because of people like myself advocating prudent preparation. It will be due to Time's choice of coverage methods and slant, and to the fools reading and believing it who have long since given up thinking for themselves. If there is blame to be assigned for the possible future deaths of untold innocents, don't place it on the shoulders of those of us who think that Y2K will be catastrophic. Place it instead where it belongs - on those in the media and government who value profits and power more than human lives, and on that part of humanity who fail to plan and provide for themselves, hoping that the great socialist teat will still be able to nurse them, no matter what.

I love my neighbors, but I will not enter into a suicide pact with them because of their shortsightedness and greed.

Hardliner: See BigDog's remarks following yours - his post closely reflects my my own position. A resolute individual will be in a position to help his community survive, as well as assure his own survival. That is presupposing that the surrounding community wants to survive. If the situation becomes bad enough, I have a gut feeling that a good many people will either commit suicide, or simply lose their minds.

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 21, 1999.

Why2K:

I completely and utterly agree with what you just posted. One hundred percent! What I don't "like" personally, is seeing people's paranoid apocalyptic Mad Max let's kill the neighbors fantasies mixed in with the thoughts of "prudent preparation." Now, I'm not gonna do anything to stop Mad Max from posting here, that's not the point. It's just that there are a lot of newbies around who don't know which side of the fence to sit on, and if they see this kind of stupidity, they are more likely to want to remain on the DGI side of the fence. That's not going to do ANYBODY ANY GOOD whatsoever.

If we're really advocating prudent preparation here, then we should be prudent in our attitudes. I know it's a lot of fun to have a lot of fun, I mean what's the use of even surviving the coming crisis if you can't smile once in awhile?

Oh, well...whatever...nevermind...

-- pshannon (pshannon@inch.com), January 21, 1999.

pshannon:

After close to twenty years in the emergency management field, I've found that when I try to smile about all this, the corners of my mouth go down... but I'm still trying :)

-- Why2K? (who@knows.com), January 21, 1999.

If someone comes through my window at night, pre- or post-Y2k, I'm going to assume they mean me harm, and kill them. If a mob of people with attitude comes up my drive, "demanding" food or anything else, they are going to have to step over more than a few bodies of their companions in order to reach my (heavily bolted) door. A threat to my life is implicit both in their "demand" and in the fact that they are intent on depriving me of food (life).

"Extreme?" F#@% you. I worked for every bean I stored, every drop of water. It doesn't belong to the State, and it doesn't belong to "the people." I will give as freely as I can to those in need who admit they were foolish not to prepare, but for unrepentant THIEVES, singly or in mobs, I've prepared swift justice.

If, in an emergency situation, you shoot thieves, or disperse mobs of looters with buckshot, YOU ARE DOING THE COMMUNITY A SERVICE. There is no question about it. By killing a craven, feral human, you are preventing some more restrained, albeit weaker and less prepared member of the community from being raped, robbed, and burned. Don't be judgemental about it, JUST DO IT. It's the opposite of "might equals right." It's the judicious use of deadly force, and the whole of civilization (including your candyland fantasy world) is founded upon it.

I don't trust people who cast aspursions on those prepared to defend themselves and their commmunity. I suspect those people of being most likely to squeal "protect me!" when the gangs sweep through with their machine-pistols. And I suspect them of wanting my garden, and my storage to convert readily to "community property."

E.

-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), January 22, 1999.