"Hoarding" and "Confiscation"

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In a previous thread, "Old Git" brought up the fact that food stores were confiscated from "hoarders" in England during WWII. Can those of you who remember confiscation, rationing, "black market" goods, etc., in either America or Europe during those days, share some of your experiences here? Or if you have parents who've told you their stories? I think it would help put all our preparedness efforts in perspective, and perhaps help us all preserve from plunder what hard-earned wealth we've managed to earn and save and store.


-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 03, 1999


This looks like a good place to ask a similar question. The Red Cross Y2K pamphlet says to stock supplies to last several days to a week. Then it says "The Red Cross doesn't recommend hoarding supplies." What is the definition of hoarding, then? What is hoarding versus stockpiling? Is it just a matter of volume?

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), February 03, 1999.

Our lives are the result of the survival of our ancestors who worked to build at-home reserves to sustain their families.Let us do likewise to attain greater self reliance while we ignore twisted word slinging inuendos. Beware of those who criticize common sense. Strive on and keep well. Best wishes, Watchful

-- Watchful (seethesea@msn.com), February 03, 1999.

You think the Red Cross is confusing on hoarding ? How about this, from FEMA's own disaster documentation:

In the unlikely event of a military attack or some other national disaster, you may need long-term emergency food supplies. The best approach is to store large amounts of staples along with a variety of canned and dried foods. Bulk quantities of wheat, corn, beans and salt are inexpensive and have nearly unlimited shelf life. If necessary, you could survive for years on small daily amounts of these staples.

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), February 03, 1999.

My mother still has her WWII rationing stamps. The stories she tells are sounding like the "could be" scenarios of Y2K. Because they were self-sustaining on the farm, they traded their eggs, beef and pork for sugar, corn meal, coffee and flour rationing stamps. Grandpa had to leave the farm and saw mill that he operated because there was no money or need for wood. He boarded a train and went into the city to find work. He worked as a conductor for the railroad and lived in boarding houses and sent home money to help sustain the family. Now the scenario here in these times are different. Families don't live on farms anymore and we are dependent on each other to get what we want and need. We all know the chain of command so I won't go into that. It will be so difficult for many to take care of themselves because we are a service oriented society. Call someone else to take care of your problems because you don't have the time, expertise to fix it yourself. Could this be the reason why so many are unwilling to accept the fact that life could become difficult for them if Y2K took all their securities away? No job, no food, no electricity, no water, no car, no survival training, how will I survive? Well, our grandparents and great grandparents survived without a few of these things and the sooner we get use to the idea that it may happen to us, the better your chances of survival will be.

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), February 03, 1999.

The difference, Pearlie is in the timing. My judicious buying today is going to be someone's hoarding shortly.

-- dave (wootendave@hotmail.com), February 03, 1999.

I've read these stories of private food supplies being confiscated in England during WWII in several places on the web. Some have even tried to say the same thing happened in America during the Depression. (Not so, of course.) Yet my mother grew up in England during the war, met my GI father then, and she has never mentioned it. I asked her about it recently and she said she didn't remember it that way. There was stringent rationing, to be sure, but she knew of no organized programme to seize private food stocks. Git, was your father referring to isolated instances of people trying to circumvent rationing and selling on the black market? Are there any written accounts describing it? I'd be very interested to learn more.

-- Curious (curious@asking.com), February 03, 1999.

I also noticed at the Red Cross sight that the reason they gave for storing only a few days of supplies, was that by that time we could all be in their shelters. What if we don't want to go to a shelter??

Where I live the biggest disaster is a snow storm. I don't know how this works. Can you say no? Is it legal to stay at home?

If anyone has experience with this please w/b.



-- Deborah (happy@home.stay), February 04, 1999.

The new reality:

The food I have is stored.

The food you have is hoarded.

I beg to differ with another poster on confiscation of food during the depression.

These stories came directly from my fathers lips to me and were confirmed many time by his brothers and sisters.

My father was tending his small plot and farm when the County sheriff and some "government" man stoped by one day. They told my father that two of his three hogs had to be confiscated. Now my father had know the sheriff all his life and informed him that that was NOT going to happen.

After a brief conference with the "government" man (there were 4 brothers and three sisters present) the sheriff said it would be ok if they killed the hogs. My father never understood why this order was given but clearly understood it was somewhat less troublesome to shoot the two hogs than the two law men.

He did so, under the scrutiny of the lawmen and buried the hogs. That seemed to satisfy the "government" man.

The sheriff took my father aside and said another brand of "government" man was coming through next week to check on how many groceries each place had and would be collecting "excess" for the hungy in the county. He also pointed out that they would not take home canned food.

By the next week when the lawmen returned - amazing as it sounds - not a speck of "store bought' food could be found on the place.

The "government" man even allowed as how he was impressed with all the pickled pork they had on hand.

Now I don't know the whys or the rules or the "programs" that caused the above events. But I do know they happened.

I was not born until much later, but I have been shown the spot where the hogs had their (almost) final resting place.

I feel the need to reiterate a point here about Martial Law. Martial - that means force. Folks, when you are looking AT force you have to make seroius decisions about what you are going to do.

Your values WILL be tested. In one way or the other in the coming storm. I recall a line from the play "A man for All Seasons". Paraphrased: "When all the laws and rules have been knocked down and the winds of hell prevail, what then will you stand behind?"

To assert that the "government" wouldn't use force against it's citizens flies in the face of history and is naive beyond anything this old bear can understand.


- Got beans?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 04, 1999.

POSTHOLE DIGGERS rather than just beans.


-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 04, 1999.

Yup, lots of new fences.

Dam, my shoulders hurt just thinking about it.

-- Greabear (greybear@home.com), February 04, 1999.

My wife is German. She was a little girl in Germany during WW11. They lived on a small farm outside of town. When the American soldiers occupied the area, they took every bit of food from the local German population. They survived by hiding what few potatoes, turnips, etc under the manure pile. In the middle of the night they dug up what they needed for the soup for the next day. She totally understands the concept of confiscation.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), February 04, 1999.

I was on the phone with my father the other day when the subject of WWII hoarding came up again. Dad mentioned that besides friends and relatives turning in those who had more than the mandated supply of food, shopkeepers also reported those who bought/had bought large supplies. It was the patriotic thing to do, since, it was said, the rich were hoarding food at the expense of the poor, creating shortages and high prices as demand outpaced supply.

My parents lived in a small village in Nottinghamshire and there was some access to fresh vegetables (victory gardens) and home-raised chickens and rabbits, possibly the occasional pig or two. If you knew enough, you could also go "blue-stalking"--picking mushrooms of a certain, delicious type, gathering new dandelion greens in the spring, wild rose hips, crab apples and blackberries in the fall. There was always poaching too. From what I gathered, the hoarding regulations applied nationwide. My father was 22 when war broke out in 1939, so these are not the vague memories of a child. Although he's now 82, there's nothing wrong with Dad's mind--he Got It before I did! I'll try to find out more.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 04, 1999.

Greybear .

If Y2K is TEOTWAWKI , I think I would opt to " bury " the goverment men ...... two less for the rest of you too worry about .


-- Mike (mickle2@aol.com), February 04, 1999.

"May your hogs never go hungry", John Ross.

-- nine (nine_fingers@hotmail.com), February 04, 1999.

Response to "Hoarding" and "Confiscation"

For some reason, the idea of storing food cuts to some vestigial core within our (American's) being: I notice a sort of panicky look come into people's eyes when it's discussed. I think deep down everyone has a vague notion in the back of their minds that these good times might someday end, and they don't like people talking to them about it (for parallel reasons a lot of people shy away from talk of the Final Things: Dying, Death, Judgement). Let sleeping dogs lie, I guess. ------Another question to ask yourself is: have you ever been hungry? I mean, really hungry, with no chance for food for at least 12 hours? I suspect few Americans under the age of fifty have. Let's just say it's character-building. Such an experience would also predispose any individual towards stocking (hoarding, saving, storing, whatever) food. As an interesting experiment, you might yourself try a day of fasting on bread and water (health permitting). Eat as much bread as you like, but only bread. Have your normal caffeine so you don't get a headache. But after your morning dose try just bread and water--it's not easy. Many religious disciplines recommend fasting because it tends to concentrate the mind, freeing you from the slavery of the flesh, deepens prayer life, all that sort of thing. Probably IS salubrious, too (give the old gut a day off). ------Not to proselytize, but the Blessed Virgin Mary has reportedly been appearing since 1981 in Medjugorje, Bosnia, advising prayer and twice a week bread and water fasts. Lately, I've begun wondering if the fasting part was more than a spiritual exercise: like maybe Mary has been trying to prepare us for a soon-to-come world where famine would be a reality. It is easy to imagine a post-Y2K world where scarcity, unemployment, societal chaos is rampant: after all, as someone has pointed out (infomagic? Milne?) most of our jobs are not 'real' work in the sense of practicing husbandry of the earth's resources, of providing for self-sustaining mechanisms by which to feed and clothe people, and most of those 'jobs' would vanish with even a modicum of 'fractional-credit' financial disruption.------'nuff said.

-- Spidey (senses@tingling.com), February 04, 1999.

I wonder if the inruduction of shoppers club card, and Bonus cards at the two dominant ( and in parts only)large grocery stores has something to do with that. Everything you buy is linked to your card and with this to you. The same applys to Sams and BJs and whatever other store that uses this type of tracable card. Be aware that all that info is stored and what will prevent Big Brother to search those database for hmm say families with one child that have bought more then an established average amount of food and supplies. Now if you also account for the classic hollidays, exclude known people that are on wellfare and hey look who has bought more food then he can use in one or two years. That of you who buy from thos " well known outfitters" do you thing Big Brother will just sit there without checking you out. What is easyier then to just check those lists? Be sly my friends buy small to medium quantities at different stores. Avoid sticking out.


-- rickjohn (rickjohn1@yahoo.com), February 04, 1999.

As I understand it: If there's currently a shortage, then you're hoarding. If there's plenty to go around, like now, then you're stockpiling.

Eventually our stockpiles might BECOME hoards. That's what the ammo is for.

As for fasting on bread & water, that has its uses of course. But it's hardly the way to prepare for short rations. Quite the contrary. If I'm convinced that there won't be enough food next month, I'm going to stuff myself daily this month. It might not be a bad idea to put on an extra 20 lbs in December if you really believe there are going to be widespread shortages of food in January, & if it doesn't damage your general health. (I do that every December anyway, come to think of it...)

-- explanation (of@our.terms), February 04, 1999.

Response to "Hoarding" and "Confiscation"

Yeah, I load on 20# every winter, too--extra insulation, right? I personally find fasting extremely difficult; if I make it through the day, when I get home and see dinner on the table, I start with "just a little vegetable," and next thing you know I'm wheeling out the oreos and ice cream. I certainly can't preach what I don't practice! Just thought I'd toss it out on the floor to get kicked around...

-- Spidey (senses@tingling.com), February 04, 1999.


Got bad news for you. Mary is dead. Happened over 1900 years ago.

So is Elvis BTW.

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), February 04, 1999.

"Mary is dead. Happened over 1900 years ago" ?

I'm surprised at you, Craig. I thought you were a Christian.

"A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head" (Rev 12:1).

-- I Believe in the (resurrection@heaven.com), February 04, 1999.

I wonder if the Nottinghamshire foragers, many more of them, operating over lesser wildlands, could be as succesful today ?


-- runway cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), February 04, 1999.

RC: I've heard that most game animals got hunted into the backwoods during the depression - none to be had. I expect folks won't be complaining so much anymore about those pesky racoons coming around!

As for "government men" taking my stuff. I'll let them take it. But they will identify themselves and leave the name of the agency. And I will eventually extract payment. And I don't care if I get that payment from that particular agent or not.

I think some desperate fool crawling through my window to steal, and quite probably maim or kill in the process, deserves to get shot dead on the spot. That's fairly obvious. Theft of my hard-earned pay, that I have, through foresight and frugality, painstakingly put into the form of life-giving food, is tantamount to an attack on my life - especially in times of starvation. When "government" burglars abuse the law and their office to steal and take life, the offence is not only against me and my house, as in the case of the window-burglar. It's an offence against all of us. The only way we can keep it from happening is to make it more trouble for them than it's worth. But there's no need to make them compound their theft with murder.

Funny how it's possible to be told by the system we live in that you have to work hard to get anything. That no one owes you a living. So you go out and do your best, accept menial labor cheerfully, work your way up by being responsible, reliable and patient. Meanwhile others are living off the 30-40% you pay in taxes, raising and educating whole families, having the children that you have been waiting to have, because you feel you haven't yet saved enough to raise and educate them responsibly. Then, because you take your civic duty seriously, and work hard to stay informed, you figure out that there's going to be trouble. You warn people while you prepare, because you care about your neighbors. A few start preparing, but most of them laugh at you, or become afraid of you, because their television told them to. And your public warning only exposes you, in the hour of peril, to "confiscation." All of a sudden, YOU are the cause of other's dire circumstances - THEIR laziness, or lack of awareness is somehow not the issue. And now you must pay. You must pay for choosing to wash dishes and clean toilets instead of going on welfare and food stamps. You must pay for being responsible and resourceful and energetic and patient. You must answer to the envy of the people who you tried to help, and who laughed at you. Now, if you think these envious people are going to be pissed, how do you think the "hoarder" is going to feel, when all he has worked for has been taken, and he has nothing to lose? I suggest that he's going to turn his quiet, industrious nature to a whole new occupation. Think about it, "government men."


-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 04, 1999.

Runway, some of the Notts people are still able to forage. Even now, there's a bit of countryside left, and a small part of the once great Sherwood Forest--and a bit of Robin Hood in the genes too. Every now and then, my old Dad finds a nicely cleaned rabbit at his back door, left there by a poacher friend. Dad himself was taught poaching at an early age, during the General Strike in the 1920s. His Uncle Alf would help him up a large oak tree where he had a vew of the back and front doors of the gamekeeper's cottage. Later he was taught how to train and use a rabbit dog (often a Jack Russell. Dad grew to love animals and wouldn't kill anything--until World War II and the necessity to keep a family healthy. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it--thanks for the dried milk and eggs and tins of Spam, you lot! And if anyone knows any GIs who were in England during the War, thank them for leaving behind good parts of their C rations (especially the chocolate and the gum) after they rested on their marches to the south coast and the invasion. Innumerable grubby, snotty-nosed kids remember their thoughtfulness.

A friend at one of the consulates here is going to try to find out where I can get more information about WWII hoarding, black markets, and the rest. I'll let everyone know in a separate thread if there's any good information.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 04, 1999.

To all you reeeely old folks out there:

I remember going to the movies as a kid during WWII and seeing the "short subjects" such as Nostradamus as applied to the war effort and its clear predictions that we would win. One of those short subject melodramas dealt with hoarding. All I remember is a middle aged man, fat, foriegn looking being discovered in a closet surrounded with cans of food, hams, tires etc. He was roughly hauled from his closet and taken away. Thats all I can recall. It would seem that the same propaganda machine that made it possible for mothers to hang black bordered stars on the windows of their living rooms was responsible for these films. I am afraid that this time there will be no time or capability to control us with popular opinion. The government will have to resort to more direct methods. These are indeed scary times.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), February 04, 1999.


I agree with your thinking, but what I have a hard time swallowing is the belief that the government will have the capability (at least for very long) to do much of anything.

As you pointed out, a world of slaves is pretty expensive. I would think that collecting and redistributing what little stockpiling there is (what have we heard? 1-2% of the population preparing at all?) would cost more in all ways than the government could get back out of it.

Do you think that they'll even try?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 04, 1999.

I tend to agree with Hardliner. The government is not too ethical to steal our food, but it will simply be crippled by the same problems that we will all have. And the return wouldn't be worth the hassle anyway.

-- Pearlie Sweetcake (storestuff@home.now), February 04, 1999.


You have voiced exactly what I have been thinking but reticent to post. Of course the gov't would not chase down the paultry stores that we have squirreled away. We do not have much to fear from an organized military. My biggest fear is that I will give my stuff away to people who are hungry. You are a former Marine, are you not? I don't know where you may have seen service, but I know for a fact that my brother, a former Marine in the invasion of Okinawa would not eat in front of the starving civilians. Most of the others didn't either. I am old now. How in the hell can I eat my food and drink my water if there will be children suffering a few feet away from me? It really hurts to be hungry. Am I going to save my ugly old ass for a few more years and let youngsters die because I have the luxury (with my webtv) of access to the net and they don't? I guess I'll have to decide when and if it happens.

Bill in South Carolina

-- Bill Solorzano (notaclue@webtv.net), February 04, 1999.


I have no desire to insult you because I have come to hold a great deal of respect for you. You may have seen my expressed opinion that there are few policemen worth the air that they breath and I stand by that. Having said that, I have to tell you that if I believed you to be one of the "gets joy from inflicting pain" cops or one of the "what's in it for me?" cops, I wouldn't give you the time of day. I see you as one of the few who holds the "protect and serve" ethic and lives by it. Lest you expect something grand after all that though, I have to tell you that all I can offer is the opinion of a Jarhead who often, lately, feels a million years old.

I see your dilemma with the children (and I'll bet that the age of the hungry wouldn't be too crucial to your feelings) but I suggest to you that you are letting your love of your fellow man put you in a mental box.

Your feelings and moral values are admirable and I share them, but you should realize that they are only half of what your mind is made to provide you with. The other half is logical thought.

It is clear (to me at least) that the future of the human race is vested in our children and that the wisdom of the human race is held by our seniors. Both are of equal value to the survival of the human race. In other words, on a specific, personal level, you are as important and useful to the future as those children. Neither of you should watch the other starve.

The best practical solution I can offer to the "starving" problem is to make "Stone Soup" as long as you can and hope that you don't run out before you can come up with a sustainable food supply. (I imagine, perhaps wrongly, that you know about "Stone Soup", but if by some chance not, I'll do my best to tell the tale).

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 04, 1999.

A little different slant.

The above posts seem to indicate that most think the fed will not come after our stash because that would be either 1) to expensive, 2) to time consuming, 3) to dangerous 4) require to much coordination.

I belive they *will* come after our things, but for a different reason. Because the stored food will sustain us. What? Exactly that. If you are the type that would store food and try to take care of yourself then you are a disease in the body to these people. Your need to be eliminated from the body of the populace. The want a cooperative populace totally dependant on them for their existance.

They want cows they can milk. They want the herd. Bulls running aroung causing trouble are not a think to be tolerated.

You have marked yourself as a trouble maker when you exibit signs of self reliance.

They don't want your food. Period. They just don't want you to have it. It gives you TOO much independance and freedom (compared to others who will be totally dependant on them).

What's bad for my enemy is good for me.

Works both ways.


- Got beans?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 04, 1999.


We are of like mind as to the federal government's motives, mind-set and intentions, but I still can't see it happening (the round up of food, etc.)

If Y2K is even half as bad as it might be, I believe the government will not simply fall, I believe that it will cease to exist as a coherent entity. Their own numbers give a picture of a bureaucracy, totally dependent on computer systems, somewhere between 6 and 7 thousand of which are "mission critical" (depending on when you ask and what "numbers" they want to come up with) and being around 75,000 in total. In my book, that means that somewhere around 90% of the government's cybernetic nervous system is not going to function. DoD's published figures are tantamount to publicly admitting that they are very bad off. We've all seen the figures on the various other parts of the federal government and none of them look good (or bad, depending on your viewpoint).

What part, specifically, of the government do you see as being able to conduct these "stash round ups"?

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 05, 1999.


No question "the numbers" tend to support the view that the gov probably won't be able to operate anything like today.

I live near a regional FEMA office. They have THE most impressive array of antenna I've seen outside of a back-scatter radar installation in Alaska. This is just one tiny piece of the scene I see. Elements that exist NOW in the Gov are prepared, equiped, and I believe willing to operate independant of any cohesive Federal level / DC type directions. So the lack of computers doesn't really enter in to the problem. As you know better than I a small unit in the field, when it can get resupplied, can stay in action a long time.

Those in the regular military who, as you do, understand their oath to the Constitution are the ONLY hope I see. Any I fear there are not enough of those are in the ranks. (See Lucifers Hammer by Jerry Pournell)

I am concerned, not about the whole Federal government, but some left over decaying twitching piece of it. Now I know there are some good guys in the Alphabet squads. But I think most are corrupted down on the soul level. I don't need an organized effort over the whole US to give me the jumps. Just a dozen or so near me and who have "gone rogue". Examples of abuse abound in our *peaceful* society now.

If I could only depend on them to show up 3 or 4 at a time, I could sleep well.


- Its not the bullet with my name on it that I worry about, It's the one marked "to whom it may concern".

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 05, 1999.

Old Git, on behalf of my deceased step-father, who led the bombing raids over Berlin and Dresden EVERY NIGHT, taking off from Southern England, and returning with many comrades missing presumed dead each morning, we accept your thanks.

Looks like the FEMA discussion has Darwinized itself over to this thread...

I stand with Grey Bear. The object of power is power. Their desire to achieve absolute control isn't a practical goal (though it has practical ramifications). I've posted elsewhere about this. I see the Fed units, balkanized as Hardliner, Bill, and others have foreseen, mutating into geographically based warlords, Chinese style. These warlords will be at war with ethnically based criminal gangs for control of a helpless civilian population. This is EXACTLY the model China lived through for 100 years (1850 - 1950), and Russian is not far from it today.

Hard to continue this discussion until everybody has read Unintended Consequences . I don't agree with Ross' solution, but I think everybody should be aware of the book and have a position on it. I can't stand with Ross, because despite my extensive weapons training and interests, I fundamentally believe in the Buddhist doctrine of ahimsa or 'harmlessness' as a spiritual necessity. Be a shame if y2k somehow drove me to abandon that.

-RC -RCat

-- Runway Cat (Runway_Cat@hotmail.com), February 05, 1999.

The cut-off head of a rattle snake can still bite, inject venom and kill.

The body is dead but some of the nervs can still react.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 05, 1999.


Two questions. 1) Do you know of a cheap source for Unintended Consequences (my lib says they can't get it and I just can't bring myself to pop $29 for a fiction however good) and 2) What's a MPK-Ti ? (Who made it, metal, shape, etc)

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 05, 1999.


You're "dead" right (not funny, I know) about the rattlesnake. The federal government is a mutated snake though, it has numerous heads that will be able to "bite" after being separated from the rest of the snake!

It sounds like we're all pretty much in agreement here about what's likely to be the state of affairs, after. The old 4th Marines were in China during part of the period Cat refers to and what I know of those times comes from Corps lore. The Boxer Rebellion was a major event in the history of the USMC. I imagine that things will be a lot like that, without the presence of foreign powers to complicate things.

None of that appeals to me, but if I had to pick, I'd be a warlord before I'd go for being a criminal or even a civilian. That's a pretty bleak scenario to look forward to.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 05, 1999.

Grey Bear,

1. MPK is a titanium all-purpose knife from MPK. Used by a number of US elite military outfits. In my vast collection of "edged defensive tools", it is one of my favorites, titanium feels fantastic (like a handgun that has just the right balance, you know?) and will never rust, doesn't have to be kept coated with goo like the carbon v blades. All-around cool knife, both for work-a-day and tactical.

2. I know what you mean about U.I. book. Expensive and BIG. What I'd recommend is: find 1 or 2 other people who might be interested to buy one copy and share it among you. With 132 reviews on Amazon.com it is one of the most customer-reviewed books, you could point a potential buying partner there first. Disclaimer though: it has some extremely graphic and upsetting scenes. Also, I believe it is politically and possibly legally dangerous to be in possession of this book. I'm certain the FBI has an extensive file on John Ross by now. I'd bet that, in the future, if this book is found in your home, you're going to be in big trouble. If I were you, I'd read it and then throw it away or give it away (as I did).

As I say, my commitment to the Buddhist concept of ahimsa prevents my condoning the plan for "social change" advocated in this book. But there's no other book quite like it. I'm commited to reading and pondering anything that any smart person writes, from Noam Chomsky on down.


-- Runway Cat (Runway_Cat@hotmail.com), February 05, 1999.

I just ordered U.C. through Amazon.com for about 20.00 (8 bucks off, shoppers).

And if the NSA/FBI/CIA/NRO/BATF/BDA doesn't like it, they can kiss my tatoo.


-- E. Coli (nunayo@beeswax.com), February 05, 1999.


I recognized it when I saw the picture. Please, tell me more.

How hard to maintain edge. RC45doesn't bother because I actually *prefer* carbon over stainless. (Old tastes)

Is it really worth the $$. Last time I saw it in a mag it was ( I think ) about $375. Not unwilling to pay that as I have others that cost more, but would like comments from someone who has used one.

Does it fit larger hands. Hows balance. Middle, forward, back?

What criticisms do you have? Down cheks?

Have about 130 others of various nature collected over last 40 years including 6 of the auto variety from the boys in Oregon. Would be VERY interested in trade if subject object is really superior quality not just esoterica. Not even sure where to but now. Thier site didn't have info.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 05, 1999.

Wow, Grey Bear, you are indeed a serious collector! OK, so as not to get flamed for using up bandwidth for non-y2k issues, but wanting to help a fellow knife lover, may I refer you to the excellent and (I feel) generally quite accurate review of the MPK-Ti in the latest Soldier of Fortune magazine ? You know, the one with the cover article on how the US military is increasingly taking over police functions in this country, as the police themselves become increasingly militarized ... I believe all your questions will be addressed there.


-- Runway Cat (runway_cat@hotmail.com), February 09, 1999.

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