Y2K The Hidden Driving Force Behind The Governments Urban Warrior Exercises, Et. Al.?

Warning: Another Long post ...

Okay,

Finally, I think and hope, I understand what is going on. (Whew. Maybe I can sleep now).

In some of the sundry articles Ive read there have been references to a classified document, referred to as the PDD (Presidential Decision Directive) #25, supposedly suspending the Posse Comitatus Rule which keeps the military from becoming a standing army on U.S. soil and also a militarized police force which can be used against/for Americans in the event of a national emergency.

(Did I state that accurately Hardliner?)

While that document, to my knowledge, remains classified, references to it in other Presidential speeches and briefings do not. It appears to exist. And is applied as a national emergency within the the limited context of anti-terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological warfare. And that all loops us back to, guess what, Y2K. But they call it Critical Infrastructure Protection instead.

Y2K appears to be the first real test of the counter-terrorism system that has been built up within the Federal alphabet agencies over the past five years.

I kept being puzzled by, WHY ...

The not so open military Urban Warrior exercises in Texas, California and many other places are being held around the country? Why are we seeing the FEMA agency take a lead position in co-ordinating Emergency Management organizations around the country? Why the newsmedia spin about the truth of Y2K problems? Why arent they being more truthful and honest? Why the banking industry Know Your Customer proposed regulations from the Feds? Why the massive gun registration efforts? Why all the anthrax scares acting as counterpoint to the simultaneous biological weapons training mobilization around the country in 120 cities? Why the major intelligence focus on cyber-attacks, other than the obvious? Is it all a NWO conspiracy, or something else?

The interdependent list of web-like relationships is quite is long. Almost a mirror of what our concerns are about the domino effects of Y2K.

Chances are there are all kinds of secret agendas, with hidden objectives going on, however Y2K issues take center stage, in a behind-the-scenes sort of way. There is not a whole lot we can do about those agendas other than to become personal activists for truth, and what is supposed to be the American way.

What we do have impact on, is that which is local. Back we come to personal preparation and neighborhood and community prep. Fed plans aside.

Yes, IF things get Y2K dicey, all the signs are that Martial Law will be declared where needed.

All the mechanisms are in place. In fact, technically, near as I can tell, for legal purposes, we are ALREADY in a Presidentially declared state of national emergency in certain sectors pertaining to terrorism, et. al. And that definition allows for a wide range of actions on the part of the Fed agencies and military types, which we are seeing more and more of. They are preparing, not for a dark take over, but, and I really think this now, for potential Y2K disruptions. Because it is so unknown, and so overwhelming. And our forces will be called on, globally, to help out, not just at home. That will spread everyone pretty thin, IMHO.

Okay, so plan accordingly. That means we need to prepare, just differently from what they are preparing.

What does that mean?

It means, your best Y2K defense against the unknown global repercussions and the uncertain actions of our military peace keeping forces, is to extend your tribe, your family to include ALL aspects of your community. Expect change in your life, and possibly your livelihood, and plan now. (Youll be more accepting, and flexible, if you plan for new jobs that interest you rather than ones that do not. And perhaps your job will be just fine, or not).

Now is the time to build up relationships with organizations you NEVER thought youd have to deal with other than at a distance.

Who? Well, your local fire department, the mayors office, the city council, the established community organizations, groups and non-profits, the schools, the local Red Cross chapter, emergency response services, the local politicians, your elected officials -- locally and at the state level. The more you get to know those around you, and encourage prudent preparation, the more likely, the spread thin alphabet forces will leave cohesive communities to handle their own Y2K concerns.

Perhaps getting to Know Your Community, not your bank, is the best Y2K preemptive strike, for whatever contingency plans are being created.

Try to be part of the process that creates them from the inside, rather than accepts them from the outside.

Diane

Some additional follow-up research snippets, which helped me finally determine what, I think, the game has been about ...

See also, off the White House web-site search for various publications at:

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/WH/Publications/html/Publications.html

1995-07-14 President to CIA Staff and Intelligence Community

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
TO STAFF OF THE CIA AND INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY
July 14, 1995

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1995/7/14/4.text.1

... Fifty-four years ago, in the weeks that led up to Pearl Harbor, there was a wide range of intelligence suggesting a Japanese attack that made its way to Washington. But there was no clear clearinghouse to collect the information and to get it to the decision-makers. That is what led President Truman to establish a Central Intelligence organization. ...

... I want to work with you to maintain the information and the intelligence advantage we have, and to meet the demands of a new era. Today our government is deluged with more and more information from more and more sources. What once was secret can now be available to anybody with cable TV or access to the Internet. It moves around the world at record speed. And in order to justify spending billions of dollars in this kind of environment on intelligence and to maintain our edge, you have to deliver timely, unique information that focuses on real threats to the security of our people on the basis of information not otherwise available.

That means we have to rethink what we collect and how we organize the intelligence community to collect it. We must be selective. We can't possibly have in a world with so many diverse threats and tight budgets the resources to collect everything. You need and deserve clear priorities from me and our national security team. ...

... Earlier this year I set out in a presidential decision directive what we most want you to focus on -- priorities that will remain under constant review, but still are clear enough at the present time. First, the intelligence needs of our military during an operation. ...

And, see also ...

1995-04-26 Noble Et Al Briefing on Anti-Terrorism Proposals

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1995/4/26/8.text.1

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

April 26, 1995

PRESS BRIEFING
BY
UNDER SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY FOR ENFORCEMENT RON NOBLE,
DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL JAMIE GORELICK,
AND DEPUTY ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR DOMESTIC POLICY BRUCE REED

The Briefing Room

...DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: I'm going to brief you on the President's announcement today ...

... We've been working at the Justice Department and the Department of Treasury with the White House in the development of additional legislative proposals reflecting cooperation throughout the administration and with the leadership. ...

... The steps that we are taking are: one, to hire and seek the funding to hire approximately 1,000 new agents, prosecutors and other federal law enforcement and support personnel to investigate, deter and prosecute terrorist activity. That, combined with the establishment of a domestic terrorism center, coordinated by the FBI, coordinated with other law enforcement agencies, including the ATF and state and local law enforcement, and working collaboratively with our intelligence agencies are the two most significant things that we can do to address the kind of tragic event that we had in Oklahoma City, and to prevent similar occurrences in the future. ...

... We would also seek to amend the Posse Comitatus Act, which is what constrains the use of the military in law enforcement efforts. Right now, the Posse Comitatus Act contains a provision which allows the military to help law enforcement in the event of a potential use by a criminal of nuclear matter. We would like the same help and assistance with regard to chemical weapons and with regard to biological warfare weapons.

[NOTE: ... We would also seek to amend the Posse Comitatus Act]

They have the expertise. This is not the sort of assistance from the military that the act was designed to prevent, and we would like to make that explicit. And we would be seeking certain amendments to the Electronic Communications Privacy Act which would, consistent with the Constitution, fully consistent with the Constitution and the warrant requirements of the Constitution, enhance the use of electronic surveillance to fight terrorism. ...

... Q & A

... Q These are all new -- and on the Posse Comitatus -- could you talk about -- specifically, what would the power be? To do what?

... DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: Well, right now, we can go to the military services for advice with respect to chemical weapons or biological weapons. But if we have someone who had a cache of chemical weapons and we were trying to take those away, we were trying to disarm that person, we could only get advice from the military; we could not use their considerable expertise, their talent, their equipment, their personnel, to help take those chemical weapons safely. And that is the precise kind of assistance that we would want to have in a circumstance like that. We do not have that expertise --

Q Seize and disarm?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: -- helping to seize, helping to protect an area, helping to protect personnel -- law enforcement personnel who are involved in an operation -- that kind of thing.

Q Which of these proposals might have prevented the Oklahoma incident?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: Well, it's very hard to say because of the early stage of this investigation. And I might say, though, that the things that clearly would help us in future similar situations would be more resources and the greatest possible coordination in the sharing of information and intelligence.

... Q I am wondering -- on this number five among the items the President has already announced, the presidential decision directive, what will fall in under that, and what do you expect more that the President can direct that's beyond legislative proposals?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: The presidential decision directive under consideration right now is in the classified form. Generically, it would divide up responsibilities among federal agencies for the mission of combatting foreign and domestic terrorism, and make sure that the lines of communication and authority are clear.

[NOTE: ... The presidential decision directive under consideration right now is in the classified form.]

Q Is there a due date on that?

UNDER SECRETARY NOBLE: There will be.

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: This is something that is moving along very quickly. It has been somewhat delayed by the fact that those of us in law enforcement who have responsibilities, who would have responsibilities under the presidential decision directive, also have operational responsibilities, and we have asked for a little more time to participate in this decision-making process.

... Q How soon would you start hiring the new agents, and how long would it take to get to 1,000?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: It depends on how quickly we get the funding. If the funding is approved for 1995, we could begin immediately; if it is for 1996, we would begin in the new fiscal year, and that would take, yet again, some additional time to hire. This is part of the dialogue with the leadership about the nature of the funding package and the resources that would be applied to this.

Q And we're talking about $1.5 billion dollars over five years?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: Pardon me?

Q How much money are we talking about over five years?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: -- $1.5 billion over five years.

Q Of the agents that you have assigned to anti-terrorist activities now -- and this seems to be a ballpark figure -- is there a percentage breakdown between those assigned to domestic, and those assigned to foreign, and how would the added agents -- those among the 1,000 how much of that changes?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: There is a breakdown. It is currently classified, and I will have to get back to you on what I can tell you about that.

Q Would all of the new agents be for domestic terrorism, as you implied, or would they be --

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: That was our intention; to put these resources into the domestic terrorism arena. But as you know, the two are interrelated, and in fact, over the years, within the FBI, we have moved personnel from one to the other, depending on the nature of the threat as assessed. So I would say, in general, they would going to both, or -- focus right now is in the domestic terrorism arena.

Q What direction has that movement then -- just as a follow-up --

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: I'm sorry, pardon me?

Q I was just saying, in what direction has that movement been?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: Back and forth. And that is, it has gone in both directions.

Q Can you give us a ballpark -- you said it's classified, but can you give us a ballpark of what kind of percentage this is increase? I mean --

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: No. All I can do is characterize the increase as very substantial.

Q Have staffing shortages been a problem in pursuing terrorism leads before? Could you describe what sort of difficulties we've had up until now?

DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: I would say that we have not identified staffing shortages. On the other hand, if you apply more resources in this area, I think you will get more investigative results. And we believe that this is a fruitful area for more resources.

... Q Just a technical question. The 1,000 employees, is some of that to staff the new domestic counterterrorism center that the President --

ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GORELICK: Yes. Yes, indeed.

See also ...

1995-05-31 President at US Air Force Academy Graduation Ceremony

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1995/5/31/3.text.1

May 31, 1995

Remarks by the President at U.S. Air Force Academy
Graduation Ceremony

Falcon Stadium
U.S. Air Force Academy
Colorado Springs, Colorado

... But these same forces have a dark underside which can also lead to more insecurity. We understand now that the openness and freedom of society make us even more vulnerable to the organized forces of destruction, the forces of terror and organized crime and drug trafficking. The technological revolution that is bringing our world closer together can also bring more and more problems to our shores. The end of communism has opened the door to the spread of weapons of mass destruction and lifted the lid on age-old conflicts rooted in ethnic, racial and religious hatreds. These forces can be all the more destructive today because they have access to modern technology.

... We believe still that a strengthened United Nations operation is the best insurance against an even worse humanitarian disaster should they leave. We have a longstanding commitment to help our NATO allies, some of whom have troops in the U.N. operation in Bosnia, to take part in a NATO operation to assist them in a withdrawal if that should ever become necessary. And so, if necessary, and after consultation with Congress, I believe we should be prepared to assist NATO if it decides to meet a request from the United Nations troops for help in a withdrawal or a reconfiguration and a strengthening of its forces.

... I believe we must look at all of these problems and all these opportunities in new and different ways. For example, we see today that the clear boundaries between threats to our nation's security from beyond our borders and the challenges to our security from within our borders are being blurred. One once was clearly the province of the Armed Services; the other clearly the province of local law enforcement. Today, we see people from overseas coming to our country for terrorist purposes, blurring what is our national security. We must see the threats for what they are and fashion our response based on their true nature, not just where they occur.

In these new and different times, we must pursue three priorities to enhance our security. First, we have to combat those who would destroy democratic societies, including ours, through terrorism, organized crime and drug trafficking. Secondly, we have to reduce the threat of weapons of mass destruction, whether they're nuclear, chemical or biological. Third, we have to provide our military -- you and people like you -- with the resources, training and strategic direction necessary to protect the American people and our interests around the world.

The struggle against the forces of terror, organized crime and drug trafficking is now uppermost on our minds because of what we have endured as a nation. The World Trade Center bombing, the terrible incident in Oklahoma City, and what we have seen elsewhere -- the nerve gas attack in Tokyo, the slaughter of innocent civilians by those who would destroy the peace in the Middle East, the organized crime now plaguing the former Soviet Union, so much that one of the first requests we get in every one of those countries is, send in the FBI, we need help; the drug cartels in Latin America and Asia that threaten the open societies and fragile democracies there -- all these things we know can emerge from without our borders and from within our borders. Free and open societies are inherently more vulnerable to these kinds of forces. Therefore, we must remain vigilant, reduce our vulnerability, and constantly renew our efforts to defeat them.

We work closely with foreign governments. We share intelligence. We provide military support. We initiate anticorruption and money-laundering programs to stop drug trafficking at its source. We've opened an FBI office in Moscow, a training center in Hungary to help combat international organized crime. Over the past two years, we've waged a tough counterterrorism campaign, strengthening our laws, increasing manpower and training for the CIA and the FBI, imposing sanctions on states that sponsor terrorism.

Many of these efforts have paid off. We were able to arrest and quickly convict those responsible for the World Trade Center bombing, to stop another terrible planned attack in New York, as well as a plan to blow up American civilian airliners over the Pacific, and helped to bring to justice terrorists around the world.

In the aftermath of Oklahoma City, our top law enforcement officers told us they needed new tools to fight terrorism, and I proposed legislation to provide those tools: More than a 1,000 new law enforcement personnel solely working on terrorism; a domestic antiterrorism center; tough new punishment for trafficking in stolen explosives; for attacking the members of the uniform services of federal workers; the enabling of law enforcement officials to mark explosive materials so they can be more easily traced; the empowering of law enforcement officials with authority to move legal -- and I emphasize legal -- wiretaps when terrorists quickly move their bases of operation without having to go back for a new court order; and finally, in a very limited way, the authority to use the unique capacity of our military where chemical or biological weapons are involved here at home, just as we now can call on those capabilities to fight nuclear threats.

I'm sure every graduate of this Academy knows of the Posse Comitatus Rule -- the clear line that says members of the uniform military will not be involved in domestic law enforcement. That is a good rule. We should honor that rule. The only narrow exception for it that I know of today is the ability of law enforcement in America to call upon the unique expertise of the military when there is a potential threat of a nuclear weapon in the hands of the wrong people. All we are asking for in the aftermath of the terrible incident in the Tokyo subway is the same access to the same expertise should chemical and biological weapons be involved.

[NOTE: ... the Posse Comitatus Rule -- the clear line that says members of the uniform military will not be involved in domestic law enforcement. ... All we are asking for ... is the same access to the same expertise should chemical and biological weapons be involved. ]

The congressional leadership pledged its best efforts to put this bill on my desk by Memorial Day, but Memorial Day has come and gone, and only the Senate has taken the bill up. And even there, in my judgment, there are too many amendments that threaten too much delay.

Congress has a full agenda of important issues, including passing a responsible budget. But all this will take time. When it comes to terrorism, time is a luxury we don't have. Some are even now saying we should just go slow on this legislation. Well, Congress has a right to review this legislation to make sure the civil liberties of American citizens are not infringed, and I encourage them to do that. But they should not go slow. Terrorists do not go slow, my fellow Americans. Their agenda is death and destruction on their own timetable. And we need to make sure that we can do everything possible to stop them from succeeding.

Six weeks after Oklahoma City, months before -- after the first antiterrorism legislation was sent by the White House to Congress, there is no further excuse for delay. Fighting terrorism is a big part of our national security today, and it will be well into the 21st century. And I ask Congress to act, and act now. (Applause.)

Our obligations to fight these forces of terror is closely related to our efforts to reduce the threat of weapons of mass destruction. ...

... This, then, will be our common security mission -- yours and mine and all Americans -- to take on terrorism, organized crime and drug trafficking; to reduce the nuclear threat and the threat of biological and chemical weapons; to keep our military flexible and strong. These must be the cornerstones of our program to build a safer America at a time when threats to our security have no respect for boundaries, and when the boundaries between those threats are disappearing.

Abroad, as at home, we must measure the success of our efforts by one simple standard: Have we made the lives of the American people safer; have we made the future for our children more secure.

Let me say to this class, I know that the rewards of serving on the front lines of our foreign policy may seem distant and uncertain at times. Thirty-four years ago, President Kennedy said, "When there is a visible enemy to fight, the tide of patriotism runs high. But when there is a long, slow struggle with no immediate visible foe, your choice will seem hard, indeed." Your choice. Your choice, ladies and gentlemen, to take on the problems and possibilities of this time, to engage the world, not to run from it, is the right choice.

See also ...

1995-04-17 Executive Order on Classified National Security Info

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1995/4/18/11.text.1

[Quite long but spells out what is classified and what is not and how to figure it out.]

See also ...

1997-09-16 Presidential Remarks at CIA 50th Anniversary

September 16, 1997

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
AT THE 50TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

Central Intelligence Agency
Langley, Virginia

http://www.pub.whitehouse.gov/uri-res/I2R?urn:pdi://oma.eop.gov.us/1997/9/16/9.text.1

... As your first customer, let me reiterate, I depend upon unique, accurate intelligence more than ever. Your work informs every foreign policy decision I make, from dealings with leaders in the Middle East to Russia. Targeted and timely intelligence in some places is more difficult to collect than ever. In today's high-tech information age, the haystacks are getting bigger, but the size of the needles isn't. That's why we've worked so hard to adapt our tremendous intelligence capability to meet the challenges of this time, to make this era of change work for us, to ensure that we have the information we need to keep our nation secure and to help lock in the gains of peace and freedom all around the world.

... Our first task is to focus our intelligence resources in the areas most critical to our national security -- the areas where, as Director Tenet has said, we simply cannot afford to fail. Two years ago I set out our top intelligence priorities in the Presidential Decision Directive. First, supporting our troops and operations, whether turning back aggression, helping secure peace or providing humanitarian assistance. Second, providing political, economic, and military intelligence on countries hostile to the United States so we can help to stop crises and conflicts before they start. And, third, protecting American citizens from new trans-national threats such as drug traffickers, terrorists, organized criminals, and weapons of mass destruction.

[NOTE: ... Two years ago I set out our top intelligence priorities in the Presidential Decision Directive. ]

... We still need dedicated men and women to monitor foreign communications and sound the right alarms. We still need analysts to weave varied strands of data into logical, honest assessments, and, when necessary, into warnings. We still need sophisticated counter-intelligence to keep our secrets in and keep foreign agents out. And ultimately, our intelligence community's success depends upon the support of the public it serves and the Congress that oversees its work.

... In the walls here at Langley, there is inscribed that magnificent verse of scripture, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." For five decades, the men and women of the CIA have made it their mission to bring that truth to light, often at tremendous personal risks, and never for personal acclaim.

So, my request to President Clinton, et. al. is, could you please start telling the Y2K truth now, and set us all free?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999

Answers

See also ...

QUESTION: What Does It Mean When A Presidential E.O. Declares A National Emergency?

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000Wc6

And ...

The Governments Critical Infrastructure Protection Plans -- Presidential White Paper (Think Y2K -- Link From State Guard Association)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000X6G

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane,

I see you post a lot, and almost feel that I know you. You seem like a nice person. However, I think that you are missing what to me are much darker motives behind the "attack on Texas", and other events.

If the only reason for these full-scale military exercises at worst, or SWAT team gymnastics at best is to be ready for Y2K in a strictly benevolent way, then where's the NON-VIOLENT help from our beloved alphabet soup agencies?

Why is it the current administration's overt actions are all strictly violent and militaristic? And their mouthpieces are silent to the threat and mouth only bromides and appeasements?

I read those announcements and EO's and speeches given by Mr. President. He's a great politician. But I don't think he's got *our* survival in mind. If he did, we'd be hearing about preparations OFFICIALLY from the Whitehouse and the President.

Instead, we get unannounced live-fire exercises in towns across the country, massive gun control legislation not seen since Hitler in the '30's. And lying by several critical Federal Agencies about their progress. - As well as lying from the Chief Executive himself over the status of Social Security and its readiness.

Perhaps you're sleepless because the darker side really *is* more probable than your wishful thinking.

I'm not attacking you. I only wish you were right about the ultimate benevolence of our Federal Government. But I for one fear that government more than I fear gun toting motorcycle gangs.

Your assessment that local preparations are more important is absolutely true. However, I think that much of the preparations that need to be made will be to thwart excessive Federal interference.

Jolly

-- Jollyprez (Jolly@prez.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane, I agree with you just about 100 percent. Leaving aside any "dark" reasons, the Feds CANNOT let armed thugs take over the nation's cities, that is, they'll do their best to stop it. I thought perhaps Texas cities were chosen as venues for those exercises because so many Texans serve their country in the military and because those particular towns are military (AF base and two NAS). Then yesterday it hit me that another reason might be because of the notorious trial just ended, where either verdict might produce some civil unrest. Perhaps if Y2K had happened a couple of years ago, the exercises would have been in California, and the LA riots would either not have happened, would have been much less widespread, or (most likely) would have been quickly contained and defused. I think the exercises also were intended to give inexperienced troops some practice for urban warfare in places like Kosovo. Perhaps all these reasons are valid, but we don't know which one is primary. As you say, there must be all kinds of hidden agendas here.

Back to Y2K. I saw in one of your posts (I think it was one of yours) where you had questioned the DoD having responsibility for water (among other things). If you've ever suffered the aftermath of a severe storm, I believe you'll find it's the Army/National Guard that comes in with water trucks--they've already got the equipment to purify and deliver water, so why give the responsibility to some other agency?

I thought all along that the government wasn't being completely upfront (tactful!) with us about Y2K because they needed to get all their ducks in a row before they opened up. Perhaps the DC report was deliberately made public now (according to some schedule) because it's the worst-case scenario for a city. Once people get used to the idea of DeeCee being in such bad shape, the status of their own cities won't seem nearly so bad!

I like very much your idea that a city calmly governing itself will be left pretty much alone. Oh dear, Sweetie and I HAVE to get out of here! The city administration can't organize itself enough to keep a check on city-issued credit cards! And we have a councilperson, a single mother with six children, who just got evicted from her subsidized apartment because she admitted she'd rather pay her large phone bill than her rent. This woman says she has a unique view of the criminal justice system (that's because her oldest son has just been convicted of armed robbery). With these qualifications, she has announced her intention to run for Mayor. Oh--she's on the Council's Finance Committee. . .

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane,

I hate to be the dog in the manger, but somebody's got to ask it.

Granted all the points above (BTW, thanks again for all the good info). IF Chem & Bio are some of their main concerns, WHY have there been NO reports of any of the "trainers" training in Chem/Bio suits.

If the Chem/Bio suits (I forget the proper name) are as clumsy as they appear to be, it would seem that at lest some of the boys would be wearing them in practice and if they did somebody would have seen them. Obviously we did not "see" everything that happened through the various reports. But if there had been *any* of the guys in those suits, I believe it would have been one of the main points in the reports.

Additionally what we did get were reports of soldiers dressed to the nines for *tactical* manuvers in the typical outfit usually called ninja suits. And, the reported quotes by the mil types on the objectives of the various "training exersizes" were to retrive a certain captive or to assult some wackos who were forted-up and would not yield the weapons.

I will be the first to admit that questions about how someone was DRESSED seem at first glance to be rather spurious. But if the *big* picture is to have a large pice of it spelled Chem/Bio then the fashion statements made by the mil guys do have to come into question.

-- Greybear, who wishes he were smart enough to have though of this point himself, but must give first credit to Michelle

- Got (the right) Clothes?

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), February 24, 1999.

Excellent information Diane -- as always you little gopher you!

But I think the conclusion you drew doesn't help me sleep any better at night.

If you want to compare the difference at how a government prepares its people for impending catastrophe, in a benevolent way - - look at how Israel prepped its citizens during the Gulf War. No lies, no silence, no spin, just Here it is- - get ready.

Big difference in my opinion.

Also live ammo in a populated area does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

Neither does turning the local law enforcement into quasi-stormtrooper commandos.

Got sedatives?

-- INVAR (gundark@aol.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane,

No, you didn't start off very accurately at all. Such is quite understandable since both "Slick" and Jamie Gorelick (who BTW is no longer with DoJ) repetitively refer to "the military" as being addressed by Posse Comitatus. It just isn't that broad.

"Posse Comitatus: Lat. The power or force of the county. The entire population of a county above the age of fifteen, which a sheriff may summon to his assistance in certain cases; as to aid him in keeping the peace, in pursuing and arresting felons, etc. 1BlComm. 343; Com. v. Martin, 7 Pa.Dist.R. 224" (definition and citations from Black's Law Dictionary, Revised 4th Ed., p.1324)

You've all probably seen old Western movies in which the sheriff calls all of the men in an entire town into service as a posse and rides out chasing the bad guy(s). This is exactly what a Posse Comitatus is.

The Posse Comitatus statute was enacted after the War Between the States, as a result of the federal (union) government using the Army to enforce civil law in the South. It is an ordinary act of congress and is embodied in the United States Code. It is not a part of the Constitution or any document except the US Code. It originally referred only to the Army, but when an Air Force was born out of the Army, it was amended to include the Air Force as well. It simply provides that anyone who does use any of either of those forces for civil law enforcement purposes be fined (the statute has been amended to remove a limit on such a fine) or imprisoned for up to two years (again, there is no lower limit on imprisonment).

The so called prohibition against a "standing army" is a reference to the stipulation in the Constitution that Congress may only appropriate funds for the Army for two years at a time. There is no such restriction on the Navy. There is no relationship to Posse Comitatus.

Here is the statute in its entirety, with annotations. As you can see, it is quite clear and explicit. That it is so, lends grave misgivings to my understanding of the motives of federal officials who routinely "broaden" (to be kind) their words when referencing the law.

-CITE-

18 USC Sec. 1385 01/26/98

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I - CRIMES

CHAPTER 67 - MILITARY AND NAVY

-HEAD-

Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

-STATUTE-

Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly

authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses

any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or

otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or

imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

-SOURCE-

(Added Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, Sec. 18(a), 70A Stat. 626; amended

June 25, 1959, Pub. L. 86-70, Sec. 17(d), 73 Stat. 144; Sept. 13,

1994, Pub. L. 103-322, title XXXIII, Sec. 330016(1)(L), 108 Stat.

2147.)

-MISC1-

Historical and Revision Note

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Revised Section Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at

Large)

---------------------------------------------------------------------

1385 10:15. June 18, 1878, ch.

263, Sec. 15, 20

Stat. 152; Mar. 3,

1899, ch. 429, Sec.

363 (proviso);

added June 6, 1900,

ch. 786, Sec. 29

(less last

proviso), 31 Stat.

330.

-------------------------------

This section is revised to conform to the style and terminology

used in title 18. It is not enacted as a part of title 10, United

States Code, since it is more properly allocated to title 18.

AMENDMENTS

1994 - Pub. L. 103-322 substituted ''fined under this title'' for

''fined not more than $10,000''.

1959 - Pub. L. 86-70 struck out provisions which made section

inapplicable in Alaska.

-SECREF-

SECTION REFERRED TO IN OTHER SECTIONS

This section is referred to in section 831 of this title.

-- Hardliner (searcher@internet.com), February 24, 1999.

I have to join the chorus here. The nature of the training exercises being conducted is inconsistent with the objective of managing a drastic infrastructure crisis. The primary emergency requirements would be water supplies, medical services, distribution of food, warm shelters, et al.

Stun bombs, automatic weapons, hand grenades, assault helos, warrantless searches, just don't seem to relate to these activities. And the fact (as Greybear noted) that these people are NOT training in HazMat gear is hard to get around.

I'd welcome any illumination on this.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 24, 1999.

[Click!] .. Bold off...

Dan

-- Dan (DanTCC@Yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

bold off

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), February 24, 1999.

Jolly,

Im quite sure there are agendas within multiple layers within levels, etc. But not all.

Just couldnt get a handle on how it all interconnected. Now I feel, rightly or wrongly, that the picture is less fuzzy.

In addition to sending a public message with the Texas events, they are probably intending to send one to would be terrorists as well. All over the country and the globe. Actually, I dont think well be hearing about preparations OFFICIALLY from the White House and the President, until its all in place, by July. Just in time for the 46 states fiscal roll-overs. But for those with eyes to see, the smoke signals are pretty clear.

The NON-VIOLENT help from our beloved alphabet soup agencies is happening feverishly, all at an industry, business, city, town and emergency response level. Study their web-sites and youll see LOTS of action inside their area of turf. (None but investigative journalists go there, and then all too rarely). Thats why we dont see it. All you have to do is spend some time over on the FEMA web- site to see that are pulling out all-the-stops.

Why is it the current administration's overt actions are all strictly violent and militaristic? And their mouthpieces are silent to the threat and mouth only bromides and appeasements?

Setting up all the ducks. And its all about terrorism, thats why. And fear of public panic BEFORE they are ready to handle it. Remember, these are the guys who believe they have all the answers, and the public couldnt possibly be counted on to take preparations into their own hands. Its the ego oriented, only we can fix it, mentality.

Dumb strategy, IMHO. Especially as pertains to Y2K. Inclusiveness is stronger.

Old Git,

There are lots of things that could have been done differently with the L.A. riots. It caught them all by surprise. Hopefully they learned the lessons. It sure looks that way.

Yes, I think were being spoon fed the bad in with the good Y2K information at such a rate as to SLOWLY turn up the prep dial, without causing panic. Also because they are receiving the Y2K update info that way as well. Remember, they STILL have numerous unknowns themselves and seem to be groping their way in the dark.

Chuckles on your city. We forget, as part of our individual Y2K preps, to do an assessment phase of our town surroundings. Some mountains are just too steep to climb, and its best to look for an alternate trail.

Greybear,

IF Chem & Bio are some of their main concerns, WHY have there been NO reports of any of the "trainers" training in Chem/Bio suits.

Actually, I have seen the reports. They did a news special on a Silicon Valley local TV which showed how the local fire depts and emergency response teams were practicing, all in their fancy new bio suits. There IS coverage on the issue. Its the newsmedia that doesnt get it.

Again, go check out the web-sites for EMT Emergency Response Trainers & managers, their industry associations, and state and local disaster response services. Its all there. With pictures.

As near as I can figure, the .mil types are doing their Urban Warrior training thing, the Delta Force is doing it with black helicopters, the and the emergency response and HASMAT (-1 sp) groups are doing theirs. Some busy little groups out there!

INVAR,

The way they are preparing themselves and not us, does not give me warm fuzzy feelings either.

Its like putting on their own oxygen masks, first, in a plane crash scenario.

However, it DOES look like Phase Two is starting to be implemented now, and that DOES include gentle preparations ... FEMA big booklet, Red Cross, more cities and towns having Y2K info available, articles appearing about preps in local areas, etc. They dont want to rock the bank boat or the stock market. I expect the official prep suggestions to get longer as the country moves in that direction, and as they get better information on actual Y2K conditions.

Bet there is a flurry of work being done on contingency plans right now.

Hardliner,

Thanks for the correct terms and assesment. For someone whose never had a reason to pay attention to any of the military goings on its all new territory.

Doesnt mean we let the .gov types off the Y2K hook. Or keep watching and blowing whistles.

It just seems like their actions have a common underlying link now, in light of Y2K threats to the Critical Infrastructure Protection.

Ill still wear hiking boots, poised to kick some shins. Koskinen is tops on my list.

Diane

(Leska, Ill look at your post next. Whew! Hard to keep up!)

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane, Hardliner, E Coli, everybody, check out this site:

Great Site Summarizing What's Up

Is this writer one of us? Interesting reading. Except it's all too much for my poor befuddled brain. Is it really coming down to this? Why do we have to live in such *interesting* times! I wanna go back to sleep.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Leska,

Took a look at your first "bold" link.

It's all about getting ready for terrorist actions, IMHO. It's their job.

Will now look at the second one.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

This just up on Breaking News:

CIA Predicts Serious Y2K Problems In Foreign Countries

[ This is for educational purposes only ]

2/24/99 -- 11:30 AM
....
WASHINGTON (AP) - The Year 2000 computer problem could cause serious disruptions abroad, including breakdowns in nuclear reactors and strategic missile systems, midwinter power outages and disruptions in world trade and oil shipments, a CIA official warned today.

Air Force Gen. John Gordon, deputy director of the CIA, emphasized at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing that gaps in information make it hard to assess the scope of the damage in foreign countries, although it is evident that most countries, particularly Russia, are far behind the United States in preparing for the crisis.

Gordon said Russia has exhibited a low level of awareness for the ``Y2K'' problems ...

Midwinter power outages, he said, could have ``major humanitarian consequences'' in countries such as Russia and Ukraine.
....
But he said there could be serious local problems with missiles if temperature or humidity monitors malfunction, and that problems in early-warning systems could lead to incorrect information.

The developing world faces the greatest threats of disruptions, Gordon said. China will probably experience failures in key sectors such as telecommunications, electric power and banking.

The United States is regarded as the world leader in fixing the Y2K problem, but the draft of a report being prepared by two senators who have been studying the issue, Sens. Robert Bennett, R-Utah, and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said the consequences within the country should not be underestimated.

During this year, they said in a letter to other senators, ``We will be confronted with one of the most serious and potentially devastating events this nation has ever encountered.''
....
``This problem will affect us all individually and collectively in very profound ways, from the availability of electrical power to the quality of our health care,'' they said.

Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre, at the Senate hearing, said 93 percent of the Pentagon's mission-critical computer systems will be fixed by the end of March, the deadline President Clinton set for federal agencies to repair their computers.

``I would also like to take this opportunity to state unequivocally that our nuclear command and control system has been thoroughly tested and has performed superbly,'' he said.

``Rest assured, although there will be increasing unpredictability and some degradation in some systems, the armed forces will be ready to ensure national security before, on and after the Year 2000,'' Hamre said.
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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Leska,

My browser keeps locking after I get to that site ... http:// members.home.net:80/tcocp/

Just a word of advice.

When info is questionable, at worst just provide a link to the info rather than the post, and its just better not to post it. It looks like the memo comes from the "dark" side of the web.

We need to maintain some standards as responsible Y2K researchers. Stay on the "light" side -- it's fair game. And you don't P.O. the powers that be as much. Find the correlating data, provided by the leads and clues if you just have to.

Interesting" huh? (Get me outta here! CA.)

At least we are indicating all the sensitive holes in the .mil and .gov sites. Small favor.

How about a trade for accurate Y2K infomation, Koskinen?

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane, when the thread pops up, nothing is bolded. Looked under "View Source," can't see a stray bolding tag. Oh well. No comprehendo mucho.

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Diane: "The NON-VIOLENT help from our 'beloved' alphabet soup agencies is happening feverishly, all at an industry, business, city, town and emergency response level. Study their web-sites and youll see LOTS of action inside their area of turf. (None but investigative journalists go there, and then all too rarely). Thats why 'we' dont see it. All you have to do is spend some time over on the FEMA web- site to see that are pulling out all-the-stops." Action described on web-sites may or may not reflect action on the ground. The "feverish" activity you mention is very hard to reconcile with the events in Cincinnati that I reported a few days ago, in the thread Conflicting messages..., as follows:

"A friend of mine in a Cincinnati suburb (a small, separate township) has been trying to convince his mayor that he should be warning people about possible interruptions in basic services come next January. The mayor is well aware that the situation could get iffy, but he is also getting very mixed messages. He's read a lot of things taken from the Web, but he's hearing quite a different story from other governmental sources. (I have all this second hand, of course.) The mayor told my friend that he had attended a major conference of local government officials this past week, where State, county and "civil defense" representatives had a lot to say about Y2K. The substance of what they all said was, there aren't going to be any serious problems, nobody needs to panic, whatever little glitches occur will be fixed right away, we'll have power and water and food, all this stockpiling of stuff is completely unnecessary, and go back and tell your people this.

"Isn't there anybody here who knows how to play this game?"

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 24, 1999.

Diane, I don't know how to tell what's web-light or dark, or what side of the Web something's from. First time clicking around
news:comp.software.year-2000
Interesting place, not as friendly or give-and-take as this Yourdynamite Forum :)

Please tell all of us here ASAP how to tell which side, light or dark, something on the Web sides with? What are the indications? How do you determine what to or not to post? You look thru lots of gov & mil pages; we haven't; stayed away from them because it's a different world and we can't even keep up with regular news sites. But this was posted on csy2k, looked interesting. Thought you'd love the extra info!

From now on, I'll run the mil stuff by you first, but if I were to wait on your eMail commentary, it wouldn't get posted timely. Tried to this morning, but you don't look at your eMails fast! My computer makes noise when eMail comes through so I know to look. :) Although, it's still dropping @ 1/3 of messages.

Did you look on the web page link on your thread to the guy who posted the link on csy2k?

The Continuity Of Consciousness Project

Seems like he's got info that would really interest you re this thread and your continuing curiosity re Urban Warrior. He even has the plans & maps for the exercises coming pretty close to you geographically in about 3 weeks. Page doesn't look "dark." Don't know what that means. It looks interesting. We don't have time to explore it, though, today, but here it is:

The US Marines To Take Over The Bay Area For Urban Warfare Training

http://www.mcwl.quantico.usmc.mil/mcwl-hot/uw/venue/index.html

If this info is "questionable," how can you tell?

He said he thought the link would vanish, but it was free & clear, on open server, no security gateways. Still don't understand. ??? Possible the mil put on web to intimidate ppl? Or just doesn't care how many ppl see it because it's happening now? Or it's common knowledge? How can you tell if any military link is authentic? Please give brief educational explanation for those not-as-experienced surfers as yourself.

If your thread re PBS Russian stuff is all true, yikes! Glad the military is exercising & prepping. I'm more frightened of terrorists by far than American military trainers. But I don't like any guns, or any trouble, or any unrest, or any disruptions.

Anyway, I put the csy2k info on this Urban Warrior thread because it looks apropo, the nitty-gritty details of the doings; you've been posting stuff on the Urban Warrior scenarios, and I want ppl to tell us what it means or doesn't mean. Looks like hard-core real info. If it isn't, what is it? And how can you tell? Is it a hacker spoof? How can you tell?

"Get me outta here!" Hey, me first, let me out now!

Leska, hoping NOT to PO *anybody*

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

There was a Bio/Chem exercise yesterday with full gear at the Van Nuys airport here in L.A. "Westwind 99" as seen on CNN today. A year in planning, it utilized 200 Marines who posed as victims. Mentioned in the report was a need to prevent panic. So ... something is really, really up. It plays right into this thread.

By the way, great thread Diane. Thank you for your excellent research and thoughts on community as a way to deal with what ever may come. No THEY can't force us to do anything unless WE allow it to happen.

Thanks to everyone for the honest and levelheaded thoughts. I'm not so sure how levelheaded my thoughts are but I want to give it a shot.

Maybe the reasons aren't "hidden"?

I think the Fed from the White House on down are working within agendas regarding Y2k and the threat of Nuclear War and Bio/Chem attack, etc. And, it's all connected and it isn't.

From what I can see there is an effort on two fronts regarding what is happening and the information is out there for those who listen and look.

Front #1. The Awareness Campaign

On this front, we have Koskinen, the GAO, etc., putting out information and trying to both build awareness and avoid panic. Koskinen and co. are now being served by a professional PR firm. If there is a PR firm involved then, obviously, this front is interested in how they 'play' in the press. "Image" is everything.

Information is getting out. However, we wont see any organized call for preparations for some time. Furthermore, when you have both FEMA and the Red Cross each putting out an advisory calling for preparations you would think it would be taken seriously. If people aren't paying attention then you can't hit them over the head and make the GI's.

That leaves us with the mainstream media to put out the word. Polly slant or doomer slant doesn't really matter. The air play is what matters. What ever the slant, it builds awareness. When TSHTF it wont nearly be so bad because people have been initiated and they are have been formatted to a preconditioned response. If you've been told constantly that Y2k will be a "bump in the road" then you're less likely to over react when things start to fall apart.

There is and always has been a major problem with coming out and saying Y2k will be a disaster. Why? It isn't a disaster yet.

What justification is there for mobilizing efforts now in open, public view? How do you prepare in the open for a problem that doesn't even exist? Everything is speculative. There are no major disruptions right now. The economy is still "booming." Money is being made and people are buying stuff. Children are going to school. Kids are killing kids on the street. Everything is "normal."

If there were an open call today to prepare for a Milne or an Infomagic scenario then it's already TEOTWAWKI.

So, we get the "72" hour scenario. It's prudent. Everyone should do that anyway. It's within "reason." It's insurance.

Besides, how do you prepare nationally for a problem that doesn't even exist? How do you prepare for a problem that many wont even consider possible?

I guess you could if you call it something else.

So, we have another front. This front can keep secrets because that is part of it's very nature.

Front #2. Operation: Contingency Implementation

Obviously, there is a lot going on behind the scenes and it's been well known for some time that things might get really, uh, interesting. After all, even the CIA has issued an advisory to their personnel overseas. The conclusion I draw is that, more than likely, the NSA, the FBI and the CIA have all had conversations with the White House and Capitol Hill and they have contingencies in place. They have preparations ongoing. I don't think they're blind to the domestic problems Y2k can cause here.

We have the possibility of lone wackos, militant groups, hate groups, cults, etc., who might decide that the disruptions caused by Y2k provide a great time to strike and further their own agenda. But, if it's a great time for domestic interests then it's a great time for others as well. If we expect these kinds of problems then we have to have the domestic resources and the international resources to deal with them.

This second front might have an "a" agenda and a "b" agenda that are interconnected and interdependent. However, they can operated independent of each other if necessary.

There are the more serious issues we all know about worldwide. There is the lack of preparation, and the possibility that problems will be very severe overseas. There is the possibility of a nuclear attack, accidental or otherwise. The possibility of Bio/Chem attack, by domestic or foreign interests. The possibility of a rash of land grabs by foreign interests in various regions. This list goes on and on and on.

I'm sure there are a lot of things that are being done that we don't know about. But, just as there is a need to build awareness on the first front there would have to be an effort to build awareness about the issues posed by the second front.

There is no bad press.

Scare people. Shoot up buildings. Hold exercises and invite the media to see you in your new Chem suits.

Maybe both fronts have now started working together?

Maybe that's part of the plan?

Maybe we're a whole lot closer to trouble than we can imagine?

Maybe I'm full of crap?

Maybe? I hope I am.

I don't know, but it sure has me aware.

Mike ===

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), February 24, 1999.

Michael,

Good assessment.

IMHO, the terms Y2K and terrorism are interwoven in government minds, however they don't necessarily want them to be in the public mind. Hence we see the extremes in reporting between a bump and a religious armageddon. Keeps it all "off point."

The wildcard is, and always has been, the internet. They are learning. We are helping "teach" them. Remember war games, the movie?

Perhaps they now see that nothing is "secret" and everything can be figured out. All their intentions can be spotlighted. And then communicated with light speed.

This has never happened before, so they, and we, are in uncharted territory.

It comes back to Truth Works. United we stand, divided we fall. When the alphabet agencies finally recognize they dont HAVE all the Y2K answers, perhaps wisdom will take hold, old secretive mindset programming will relax, and they will endorse a more inclusive strategy.

Back we come to cohesive and resilliant (-1 sp) communities. They can, and are, leading the way.

Tom,

Its a new ball game played without a rule book.

Yes, there is lots of conflicting information. They are still trying to figure it all out. Go join a listserve for some of the emergency prep groups. What is being discussed, is NOT what the public face is saying.

Any good public official, worth their salt (and being re-elected), will have to investigate the issue far more deeply than their office has ever called on them to do.

Give em your top ten links and encourage them to do the homework. Theyll be graded at the 2000 rollover.

This IS a test.

In six months time, it will be a scramble.

Leska,

Anything with .mil in the URL has a 50-50% chance of NOT being a public site. Back up the URL to the root after the http://. In backing up if you start seeing blank pages, or access denied comments, usually on the URL root there is a classified disclaimer.

Anyone posting something not from a newsmedia site, but obviously from a military site, will likely say the link would vanish. And it probably will.

As a page is loading, watch the flashing codes in the bottom left side of your Netscape browser. (Maybe its similar for MS Explorer). The URLs being accessed are flashed there as a page is loading. If someone has links loading from a .mil site, I can tell by watching that.

Find the info, another way. Youd be (and Im SURE they are) constantly amazed at what can be pieced together from the public domain sources. (Tried and true CIA tactics).

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Leska,

Awesome!!!

It's a public site on the Urban Warrior scenarios in California. Go Marines! Hardliner, you'll love it!

United States Marine Corps Warfighting Lab

http:// www.mcwl.quantico.usmc.mil/mcwl-hot/

Exploring!

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Ah! So I wasn't sucked into the dark side by the dark forces on csy2k after all :-D

Whew! So sometimes a mil site can be OK. Did think it looked pretty interesting, especially to a Californian :^)

Think Diane will enlist? ;^D

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Let me inject something I just posted in the "Russian Roulette" thread below this one. Think nuclear terrorism, mystery contrails, helicopter flights and urban commando training excercises all rolled into one.

I'm now convinced we may be seeing a serious government effort to detect, locate and recover possibly real Russian "suitcase" nuclear weapons rumored to be slipped into this country. To me, some unrelated events add up without coming out Y2K & martial law.

I've read parts of the NEST procedures which the Air Force must support. The contrails sound like an intensive search using grid patterns to me. Lots of unusual chopper flights sound like the next step to pinpoint a possible location. Urban commando excercises, especially when the publicized goal is to practice recovery of "technical devices" sounds like training to recover a weapon.

We may have a threat more immediate than Y2K that's being kept darker than the feds are keeping Y2K from the public. In fact the feds' Y2K act may be smoke screen for a hunt for real nukes loose in the USofA. The world is wierd and getting wierder.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), February 24, 1999.

wow, great work Leska!!!

On the "Overview" page,

"Main Technology Focus is Situation Awareness

* Experimental Combat Operations Center (ECOC) * Integrated Marine Corps Multi-Agent Command & Control System (IMMACCS) * Commercial Off The Shelf -- Intra-squad Radio / Marine Tactical Radio * Experimental End User Terminals (EUT)

Humanitarian Assistance Operations * Demonstrate to City Officials Marine Corps Disaster Relief Capability * Assistance is Designed to Supplement or Completment Efforts of Host Civil Authorities Who Have Primary Responsibility to: * Restore Essential Services * Provide Non-Lethal / Police-Type Assistance * Provide Care for Refugees / Displaced Persons * Provide Medical Assistance for Mass Casualties

* Chemical Biological Incident Response Force (CBIRF)"

wow.

Mike ================================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), February 24, 1999.

Yep, some zingers! Michael Taylor, we're targeting you for a move to Cascadia, out of LA. A nice, intelligent GI graphical designer with a Mac & family will be a terrific addition to our mix at NW Yourdon Land ;-) Here's hoping ...

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-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Here's an article on the Marines and War Games from the mainstream media...

"Marines Looking for Actors to Assist in War Games"

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/urbanwarfare990224.htm l

Wanted: One Furzian Cleric Marines Looking for Actors to Assist in War Game

The Marines predict that many battles of the future will be fought in cities, primarily on coasts. They're looking for actors for a war game to help test new theories of battle. (Photo Montage/ABCNEWS.com- Photo Credit/PhotoDisc/AP Photo) By Barbara Starr ABCNEWS.com W A S H I N G T O N, Feb. 24  The U.S. Marines are looking for a few good men and womenbut not the types you might think. The Marines are advertising for somebody who can play the role of Spunky Woman War-Zone Reporter (CNN Christiane Amanpour-type) from the Political Spin News Network (PSNN). The Marines also want an older woman and older man over the age of 40 who can play the role of Furzian Cleric and the Hagi Cleric. The Marines also want 200 people for six days who are not clean cut and neat nor conservatively dressed. But before you rush to your local Marine Corps recruiting station, be advised: Its all a war game. They want a contractor to provide people to pretend they live in a city in an unstable developing nation, where unrest has gotten so bad the Marines have been called in to conduct a humanitarian operation and restore order. From March 12 to 18, Marines will be conducting the Urban Warrior Advanced Warfighting Experiment in the San Francisco Bay area near Oakland and Monterey. The war game is part of an effort to test new equipment, tactics and techniques for waging battles in 21st- Century cities. Cities To Be Future of Warfare The entire U.S. military has stepped up training in recent years for what it calls Military Operations in Urban Terrain. A number of programs are looking at developing new weapons and military gadgets, such as sensors that can see through the walls of building to determine if there are enemies behind them. Urban warfare is getting attention for one simple reason: The Marines believe that by the year 2020, 70 percent of the worlds population will live in cities  with the majority of them located along coastlines. The California war game has not been without controversy. Originally the Marines wanted to take down the historic Presidio military base in San Francisco. Local officials, worried about the environment, refused. Now the game will be played at less sensitive locations around the area. Even so, the Marines warn that their wargame will include military people running, yelling and shooting blanks in an action/adventure scenario.

All Types of Roles Available The military casting call is detailed in the usually staid, gray and very dull government bulletin of contract notices, called Commerce Business Daily. The Marines also want to fill a number of other roles, including a younger, large male to play the role of local sheriff/constabulatory chief; men and women to play the role of deputy sheriffs; one 40-49 year old female to play mayor; and a variety of thespians to play government officials, homeless people and aid workers for the Feed Everyone Everywhere Daily (FEED) charity. And by the way, the spunky woman war-zone reporter has to bring her own hand mike, notepad and pen. But the Marines say the items do not have to be functional in any way.

Copyright )1999 ABC News Internet Ventures. All rights reserved.

-- Kevin (mixesmusic@worldnet.att.net), February 24, 1999.

This looks like a great thread but I don't have time to read it, nevermind digest any of it. Can somebody give a short summary of what is going on here for me? I have been fighting production fires at work and haven't been able to post or lurk today except for about 15 minutes during lunch, and right now - and I have to get back at it in a little while too. What does Diane think she has put together?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), February 24, 1999.

Aw!

I want either the ... Spunky Woman War-Zone Reporter (CNN Christiane Amanpour-type) from the Political Spin News Network (PSNN) or to be Da Mayor.

What a kick! This is a military with spunk.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 24, 1999.

Rob, the military is buzzing with activity training for Possibilities A-{Y2K}-Z.

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Leska - Great summary! I have family in Tacoma... I may be up that way real soon! I am nice and I am graphical so two outta three aint bad, right?

WW - you raise a great point. I just don't know if I wanna deal with that kind of reality. No contrails in L.A. today that I saw. It was beautiful, warm and sunny. My son came to my office door and said "daddy, go outside?" and I said "let's go". Work took a backseat to playing in the dirt. If the suitcase nuke goes off on a day like this then that's ok. I just don't want to know about it before it happens. You know?

Mike =============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), February 24, 1999.

Sounds good, Michael; if you're driving, you can stay overnight with us, if ya don't mind Y2K conditions a little early ;-) Not exactly a luxury hotel. But there is the iMac ;-D Just eMail us a couple of days ahead of time ... hope you like sprouts LOL Appropriate for a war thread. See ya!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 24, 1999.

Concerning the orders as provided, it would be a simple academic exercise to monitor HF/VHF/UHF communications in the mentioned areas and see "who's home." Lists of Fed/Mil freqs are available all over the 'net. And I am certain enough of us computer types also like to play with radios.

-- j (academic@edu.mil), February 24, 1999.

Leska: Now that's what I call a summary! Thanks - looks like the alphabet agencies are buzzing around the Y2K hive (and just about everything else) - my work looks done for today and hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to go over this stuff - and thanks to you Diane for another great thread. As I have posted before, both youz guyz are somethin' else! :)

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), February 24, 1999.

I'm quite pissed that this Diane person suggested that I was creating propaganda. I want an apology. When you go off half cocked and cause harm to someone's reputation, you should admit it and apologize. Anyone who tells you that site isn't military is an idiot!

Kevin

-- Kevin (tcocp@home.com), February 25, 1999.

I'm posting this before reading the entire thread, all the posts. So if I'm repeating something someone else mentioned forgive me. The reason for my jumping the gun is the following:

***f the Chem/Bio suits (I forget the proper name) are as clumsy as they appear to be, it would seem that at lest some of the boys would be wearing them in practice and if they did somebody would have seen them. Obviously we did not "see" everything that happened through the various reports. But if there had been *any* of the guys in those suits, I believe it would have been one of the main points in the reports. *****

I think I'm quoting Greybear, and echoing others' thoughts. However...in the last couple days in S. California there was held a test/practice run of coordinating services in the event of BIO attack...held at an airport...Van Nuys,??? Santa Monica??? Can't remember. Anyway...the spin on the news was that this was a state effort to coordinate state resources with local police, etc. Numbers of participants cited as 2000. I believe there were hazmat units in suits....hospitals involved, all in keeping with the push lately throughout the country to focus everyone's fears upon those pesky little anthrax scares.

I'm going to go back now and read the rest of your responses. Just wanted to say I think the timing of all of this is just a bit too pristine with Y2K rolling at us like an Alpine avalanche. And for a woman who grew up a gentle and trusting soul I'll add,...I trust no official pronouncement or description of anything anymore.

"What is the use of straining after an amiable view of things, when a cynical view is most likely to be the true one?" George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)

**

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), February 25, 1999.

Oops..forgot,..I think this was called Operation Westwind or Project Westwind....I'll have a look for it in a net search.

-- Donna Barthuley (moment@pacbell.net), February 25, 1999.

Excuse me, Kevin (tcocp@home.com)?

When and how did I imply ... "you were creating propaganda?" How did I harm your reputation or say something wasn't military??

Huh ???

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 26, 1999.

See also ...

The chemical soup boils.

S.F. Bay Area Cities Get Terrorist-Ready (Just-In-Time For Y2K??)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id= 000Xs3

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), February 26, 1999.

Found this on csy2k:

Re: * * * URBAN WARRIOR * * * by Kevin Flaherty

"... someone mentioned that this entire business was obviously a training exercise for contigencies abroad.

Really?

"ASYMMETRICAL MARITIME DOMINANCE EXPERIMENTS WILL EXAMINE
OUR ABILITY TO OPERATE IN THE LITTORAL WHEN THERE IS A
NON-TRADITIONAL (I.E. NOT A NATIONAL MILITARY) THREAT."

What do you idiots in denial think a "non-traditional, non national military threat" refers to? Are you so deluded as to think that this type of operation is designed to deal with "terrorists"? Please... Non traditional, in this context, means civilians. And lots of them...

Denial is a readily available, if useless, tonic for the ignorant.
Just continue to sit there, content with your media fabricated reality.

NOTE TO THOSE OF YOU WHO AREN'T AGITPROP AGENTS:
The U.S. Government routinely uses news groups as a psychological warfare operations platform. Please see the following document for details:

Strategic Assessment: The Internet
http://www.fas.org/cp/swett.html

Strategic Assessment: The Internet

"The Internet could also be used offensively as an additional medium in psychological operations campaigns and to help achieve unconventional warfare objectives. Used creatively as an integral asset, the Internet can facilitate many DoD operations and activities."

So, when some asshole tells you that deploying national military forces on city streets is simply training our boys for action "over there," you might want to think about why they'd be interested in having you believe that horse shit. "

----------------------------------------------------------------
Diane, think you'd better look through the above link.
Will mesh with your CIA-techniques training.
Unfortunately segues right into the "chumming" tidbit.
Manipulation makes me feel sick.

Thank God the Lord is straightforward. I've been more than ready for leaving permanently for a long time. Don't want to ever come back to Planet Earth! LET ME OUT!!!!

xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxxx

-- Leska (allaha@earthlink.net), February 27, 1999.