I'm storing water containers in my attic. Don't have the room to store them full, husband isn't GI enough for big tank anywhere. My question is this. Is there some country ahead of us (in the time zones) that could provide a true indicator of the turn? Since the day changes 12 hours ahead, who's failures could most closely mirror our own? I want to know if I have time to rush home from work and start filling these things!?!

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), February 27, 1999

Answers

First of all, calm down! You DO have plenty of time to fill your jugs. Second, watch how much weight you are putting in your attic. Water is VERY heavy. Third the new year will start in the far east and darken the world as it moves toward us. Good Luck

-- Scotty (BLehman202@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Scotty,

Thanks. I guess I wasn't clear. I'm storing EMPTY water bottles in my attic. I'm trying to gauge the last possible moment to fill them. Full ones will take too much space right now. I don't care if I trip over them once I fill them. Just want to have enough time.

-- margie mason (mar3mike@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie,

Whoa, girl. Water weighs about 8 pounds a gallon, so your attic had better be designed and constructed to take that kinda weight. Also, down here in the South, it gets very hot up there, and water is thermally reactive. It will expand in the heat and will put a strain on it's container (think lids blown off, or split seams). Finally, the hot atmosphere incourages bacterial growth, so if you have already thought about the other things, at least please check the water before using it.

-- Lon Frank (postit@here.com), February 27, 1999.

Oops, I guess I didn't get that mailed in time, huh?

-- Lon Frank (postit@here.com), February 27, 1999.

To answer your question about where we should be looking for indicators reagarding the actual roll-over: India would be my best guess - that means we will have about 17 hours' warning to gauge how much impact the actual rollover might have on imbedded systems only.

Don't get hung up on rollover warnings, however, the problems will occur and have already started occuring, at a slow rate and will gather momentum as the critical "dominoes" fall.

I think the problems will not reach their crescendo until February or March of 2000. By then, most folks will have been without electricity, water, mail (checks=money), and other critical survival assets for too long. A mass exodus from cities should take place about then - people will be looking for places where they can feel safe. The have-nots will be looking for your stuff.

Don't wait for external warnings - there are enough verifiable warnings in these threads to make even the most DWGI to finally GI if they have a brain and any survival instinct left. Prepare NOW. If you are in a city, make plans to get out NOW.

Mike Cumbie

-- Michael H. Cumbie (Mikecumbie@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Hi, Margie,

I believe New Zealand is 18 hours ahead of North American east coast, so it is a place to keep an eye on.

An added hint for people in cold climates: ice is more compact than water. Pails of ice cubes can be put in the freezer or even outdoors for storage.

-- Rachel Gibson (rgibson@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie,

I'm going to start filling my containers about Decemeber 26th. I don't care if I'm tripping over them for a few months, until I am absolutely sure that the water will keep flowing.

I also bought 4, five gallon jugs (full) and keep them in my storage area, cool, dark and dry.

-- Sub-Mit (lurking@ofcourse.com), February 27, 1999.

I wouldn't store the water in the attic. Too heavy in large quantities, and the heat will encourage bacterial growth.

Try storing in 1-gallon glass jugs, put 5-10 drops Clorox in it, and put into cardboard boxes. Put into the back of some closet. I'm sure that you can find SOME space for them. Put some of the displaced stuff under your bed, or make storage areas under your floor joists if you have a basement.

Or get some metal drums, new and unused from a commercial company. Look under drums, or cooperage in the phone book.

I wouldn't wait to store the water; do it soon, and the same with the food.

-- Bill (billclo@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie,

Here's my 2 cents. I would start filling them 12-01-99 just to make sure. Who knows ... if there was an immediate problem in New Zealand (18 hrs), it may affect us sooner than we think (systemic or not). Also, just keep ahead of the whole thing ... the prudent thing to do.

Tim

-- tim daniels (tim@commonsense.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie,

Even though I let my so-called brain trip me up earlier on this thread, I'll still add one more thing. Many months ago someone on this forum made a statement which I thought had the unfallable ring of truth. He (she) was talking about bugging out, but the principal applies here.

THERE ARE ONLY TWO POSSIBLE TIMES TO PREPARE. TOO EARLY, AND TOO LATE.

Start NOW. (if not yesterday)

-- Lon Frank (postit@here.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie:

Please! Do not wait until the last possible moment. The job of preparing is much, much bigger than that. Begin storing drinkable water now. Treat your water as you store it so you know it will be good when you need it. (We've chosen the bleach method, but there are others).

Forget about the '17-hour' window. It's an illusion created by wishful thinking and an incomplete understanding of the problem. Once your preparations are made, then you can afford some wishful thinking, but until that time only action is your friend.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), February 27, 1999.

Rachel - ice is NOT more compact than water. Water expands when it freezes, enough to destroy the container as the expansion has a great deal of force. Even if you leave spare room at the top of the container, the sideways can still destroy the container.

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), February 27, 1999.

Margie: don't worry Authoritative sources inform us that only 8% of y2k failures will actually occur on 2000-1-1 !

-- Blue Himalayan (bh@k2.y), February 27, 1999.

Margie, The bleach method is the one I use as well. Just take and clean out your empty 2 liter coke containers and clean. Then fill with tap water add four drops of regular bleach to each bottle. Do not use scented bleach unless you want scented water. This water should last indefinitly. I started this about a month ago and already have a good supply of water. My family is also saving bottles for me, although they think I have lost my mind. I have water stored just about everywhere. Can't see it just by walking in the house. But there is water stored in high cabinets that I don't use simply because I can't reach them. Under the beds. Lot's of places. Also do not use milk jugs as they are meant to be environmently friendly and will not last. Oh well, Good Luck.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Rachel, I can tell you water will expand when frozen. When hubby put his 2 liter of coke in the freezer and then forgot about it. When we came home the 2 liter had exploded and we had frozen coke everywhere!!!!! Bigest mess you ever saw.

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Check out http://www.watertanks.com/bag.html for their 200 gallon water bags:

"The 20 mil thick bags hold 200 gallons and are made of food grade vinyl. Approved for storage of potable drinking water per FDA Title 21 of the Federal Regulations. Holds 200 gallons of water when full, but weighs a mere 10 pounds when empty. "

At (currently) $89 each that's under 45 cents/gallon. At 8 lbs./gallon that's 1600 lbs. -- fill them where you'll keep them, preferably on a concrete floor.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), February 27, 1999.

Margie -

You might want to check out www.watertanks.com. They sell water bags relatively cheap - 200 gal for 79.00; 300 gal for 109.00 and so on. They are very compact until filled. Bought 300 gal one the other day and plan to fill it up in December.

Good Luck!

R.

-- Roland (nottelling@nowhere.com), February 27, 1999.

I, too, am a happy watertanks customer (200g bags). They fold up very compactly, so they won't take up room until you are ready to fill them.

I maybe wrong about this, but my town has elevated water tanks which I expect to work by gravity until they empty out. So I will have some water stored ahead of time, but may hold off on most of it until the electricity goes off. (Or I may chicken out and fill them sooner.) Our municipal tanks normally have 2-3 days capacity, although far less if everyone is filling their containers and bathtubs.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Physics 101, Chem 101:

Water going from liquid to solid increases in volume by 10% minimum.

Chuck

-- Chuck, night driver (rienzoo@en.com), February 27, 1999.

I'm a little confused about the water storage. I'm planning on filling and storing water in plastic milk jugs. Do I add drops of regular Chlorox bleach, the kind I add to my laundry? Will the milk jugs last in a cool basement? Any other info would be very appreciated.

Shannon

-- Shannon (Teacherof3@aol.com), February 27, 1999.

Shannon, Yes regular laundry bleach is what you need. Add four drops to water in a regular 2 liter soda container and the water will last indefinitly. Do not use the milk jugs I heard they will not last because they are made to environmently friendly. You may also want to visit watertanks.com as someone mentioned earlier. I got alot of my information from Y2kwomen.com It really is a good place to go for info other than here. I have no idea how to hotlink or I would sorry

-- shellie (shellie01@hotmail.com), February 27, 1999.

Hey, have any of you who bought the water bags filled one up yet? I bought several, but haven't filled them yet...waiting to get a storage building put up in the back yard so I can get the junk out of the garage so I can put my water storage there.... If anyone did fill one, I'd like to know what you think...do the seams hold? Are do we have a whole group of folks here that haven't tested the product yet? I think I'll do that tomorrow... would hate to think I had solved the water problem when I hadn't. So anyone who has already filled one, let us know how it looks...sturdy?

-- Shelia (shelia@active-stream.com), February 27, 1999.

Oops! Should have been more specific--I know water expands when frozen. How about pails of ice cubes?

-- Rachel Gibson (rgibson@hotmail.com), February 28, 1999.

REF: Y2K Women site: http://www.y2kwomen.com/index.html

Try Frugal's, a great overview site for information on water: http://www.zoomnet.net/~grsc/bible/water.html

Consider that you need a source for water when your bottles are empty. Here's a diagram of a simple roof rain catchment system:

http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/images/ae/a029f1.gif Look under "Other Water Supply Techniques" section of theis website, which is good, too: http://www.lifewater.ca/ndexman.htm

There's no penalty for having water around. The lack of it is fatal.

Be a Girl Scout... prepare.

-- Sara Nealy (keithn@ptd.net), February 28, 1999.