Six months ago Senator Bennet used the words "The end of western civilization" when he talked about Y2K. I considered him a hero!

Now he talks about a bump in the road, when he talks about Y2K. Absolutely NOTHING of significance in the Y2K situation has happened to cause him to change his mind! Most likely somebody higher up told him to SHUT UP!

This man who can lie to the American people about Y2K, when he knows better, is a "disgrace" to his country and a "disgrace" to his fellow Mormon Church members! When Y2K proves to be a total disaster, he should be reprimanded by his Church! His excuse of "I didn't know" will not hold up among his fellow Church members!

When he was working in civillian life in Salt Lake City, he could not even run a paint store! Bennet's Paint went bankrupt and for many years after that, the building was the biggest eyesore in Salt Lake City!

The building was in shambles, and Bob left it for all to see! Ask any Salt Lake City resident about the terrible eye sore on Second West Street, on the corner of 21st South!!

Mr.Bennet, lying about Y2K could cause the deaths of millions of Americans! Hitler and Stalin did the same. I suggest you raise yourself above those two criminals and stand up for truth and righteousness and tell the American people how it really is with Y2K, so they can prepare and save their lives!!!!

Then you will be remembered as an American hero and as the "Paul Revere" that you call yourself!!!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), March 08, 1999

Answers

Folks,

In answer to the request that I delete this thread:

While I think it's extremely inappropriate to start bashing any particular religion (why not bash the Catholics, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or a few other religions while we're at it?), I don't think the thread has reached the point where it's so offensive that it has to be deleted.

As with the offensive trolls who occasionally show up on the forum, I think the best way to deal with an offensive remark (which originally consisted of only one paragraph in "Freddie the Freeloader"'s message) is to ignore it and let it pass.

Ed

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), March 09, 1999.

Just remember one thing, those in the know have CTA (covered their ass), have you? BTW, they don't give a rats ass about you or yours, whose going to come after them when everything is said and done? I keep telling you people that it will be every man for himself and that's what they are pushing! Thank you Freddie you are truly a righteous forthright person....you see the light!...Bardou

-- bardou (bardou@baloney.com), March 08, 1999.

Who can trust a Mormon? Birds of a feather flock together. And yes, I have dealt with many of them, and the church comes first and you come last.

-- lickingsalt@brokje.com (lickingsalt@broke.com), March 08, 1999.

I'l trust one. Or many. More than any democrat I've found lately.

-- Robert A. Cook, P.E. (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), March 08, 1999.

It would be wise not to knock any religion on this forum, because there is bad blood in any religion, because people are human and you know....they always say...the devil made me do it. Perhaps they are telling the truth about that one....The Mormons are widely known for their trustworthyness. Show me ANY another religion where their members gladly give 10% of their income to their church?

There is NONE!!! If a Mormon can part with his money, you know he can be trusted!!!

-- Magic (Magic@cookie.com), March 08, 1999.

I have several Mormon families living in my immediate neighborhood. They're good people! They would do anything for you. Their kids are the best behaved in our neighborhood and all look clean cut and none of them look like the usual gang type with earrings in their noses, etc. If you have a Mormon for a neighbor, you are lucky!!!

-- S. Grass (snodgrass@nolawn.com), March 08, 1999.

S. Grass...

Now why'd you have to go and do that. We go from knocking a religion to the much more acceptable practice of knocking people because of their appearance. Don't equate being clean cut to being "good people." After all, Hitler had such a nice closely cropped hair style, but that long haired and bearded Jesus! What a trouble maker...

-- d (d@usedtobedgi.old), March 08, 1999.

BS!!!!--Mormons pay tithe because it's mandatory...not free will. Mormons will do anything to beat their fellow coworker out of overtime pay because any pay up and over regular pay is tithe free. Mormons will be your friend as long as they think they have a chance to covert you, and Mormons will be baptized for you after you are dead, so you can enter the Kingdom of God (that's why they are big into geneology.) Maybe you all should read "No Man Knows My History, the Life of Joseph Smith," by Fawn Brodie. She has written other excellent books on Richard Nixon, Thomas Jefferson, and from "Crossbow to H-Bomb," The Devil Drives: A Life of Sir Richard F. Burton, and Thaddeus Stevens, Scourge of the South. Not flames and no prejudice against Mormons, just my own experience.

-- co-worker (co-worker@seenitall.com), March 08, 1999.

Aw, come on. Let's not start bashing people because of their religion, or anything else. That's not what this forum is all about. We're above that here. Aren't we?

-- Eye On Y2K (bugscaresme@mellinium.com), March 09, 1999.

Freddie the Freeloader started it, so bash him, not those that answer him. ED Yourdon where are you...let's get rid of this thread!!!!

-- Onewaystreet (Onewaystreet@censor.com), March 09, 1999.

Co-worker does not know what he is talking about! Unless you know the facts as truth, just keep your opinions to yourself! My sister is a Mormon and I happen to know all about the Mormons. This crap of not having to pay 10% on overtime pay is BS!!! And paying 10% is NOT mandantory. Mormons pay 10% because they want to and NOT because they have to. There are always some smart asses around who think they know it all, but in reality they are know nothing morons!

Fawn Brody was a disgruntled ex mormon who had a chip on her shoulder and twisted the truth in her book just to hurt the mormons and she wrote it to make money.

Misinformation can be found anywhere, even in Y2K news and religion. If you want the truth and true facts, then get it straight from the horses mouth and not from disgrunteled ex's.

Just look at all the ex wives in the world. NONE of them have anything good to say about their ex husbands. Well, I have an ex and my son has told me about all the lies she has told about me. So my word of advise, any ex cannot tell the truth! Perhaps co-worker is also an ex-whatever and he just has a chip on his shoulder!

-- Y2K (Y2K@prepare.com), March 09, 1999.

I havn't made my mind up about Mr. Bennet, but I would rather "them" ease the horror story to sheeple than just flat out say it. We may not like it. We may understand what "This could happen, That could happen" means, but sheeple don't do research, their gov. does, their newscast does. Shouting the news would cause a stampede. Whispering to them will cause a trickle. Bottom line, "they" are between a rock and a hard place. "They" need to shout, but have to whisper, and if "they" whisper, we run out of time, or more than likely already have.

"disgrace" to his country and a "disgrace" to his fellow Mormon Church members!"

Why can't Mr. Bennet be responsible for his own actions. If he's a soft sell, vote him out, if not keep him in.

"Absolutely NOTHING of significance in the Y2K situation"

I hear about it everywhere. My company, my tv, my computer. If some people don't take it as seriously as I do, so be it. I won't complain, but I will judge their evaluations the next time they're up for re-election.(if we make it till then, wich I think we will)

My daughter is decorated by body piercings. Her boyfriend wants to be, and looks like a vampire. I had hair down to my ass during the 70's. Everyone of us would give you the shirt off our back if you really needed it. It's not the look, it's can you walk the walk.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), March 09, 1999.

Y2K, you have twisted the truth to fit your opinion. Anyone who wants to dig deep and research for the truth will find it. I happen to have close relatives within and without the Mormon church so I know what I am talking about. People who get defensive about the truth have a lot to lose, just like the DGI we come into contact with. You know nothing about Fawn Brodie. Anyone you label as disgruntled must have a good reason to be disgruntled. Read Fawn's book and let people decide for themselves, and I am sure they'll find a different person than you have portrayed.

-- Co-worker (Co-worker@seenitall.com), March 09, 1999.

Much of the data that would be helpful in analyzing Y2K problems simply are not publicly available. Furthermore, many organizations started their Y2K remediation efforts so late that they themselves to not know what problems await them. So, people who try to study the subject in order to estimate potential problems, must exercise a great deal of judgement, and so will necessarily reach different conclusions.

The conclusions that seem to me to be most plausible are:

We do not know how many problems will occur.

We do not know how widespread they will be.

We do not know how severe they will be.

Different people will peruse different portions of the available data, and will form different opinions about probabilities of various outcomes. People who may reach similar opinions about such probabilities may yet have considerable differences in their confidence in their opinions. No matter how much data a person studies, and regardless of how strong their opinions may be about probable outcomes, their opinions are, strangely enough, opinions!

When the subjects of those opinions are the future outcomes of a very complex set of interactions of an enormous number of processes, it is most probable that regardless of the strength of those opinions, most of them will be wrong!

What I am getting at here is that while each of us must act upon our own opinions, and while some may strenuously disagree with others, it seems rather obvious to me that it is grossly presumptuous to suggest analogies between Sen. Bennett and Hitler or Stalin on the basis of one's opinions of potential Y2K problems.

Freddie, you have made it clear that your opinions of potential Y2K problems are off the chart. Fine. Others may share some of your opinions. Also fine. It seems that you feel very strongly about your opinions on Y2K. Still fine. But the strength of your feelings about your opinions about potential Y2K problems does not constitute evidence that those opinions are accurate. It is evidence only of your willingness to feel strongly about your opinions of the possible outcomes of a very complex set of interactions of an enormous number of processes.

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), March 09, 1999.

Jerry,

"They" do not know how many problems will occur.

"They" do not know how widespread they will be.

"They" do not know how severe they will be.

Therefore, how can "They" give us a reasonable plan of attack. "They" did state "stock up for 3 days". "They" are taking steps for the gov. to survive. "We" should take steps for us to survive.

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@aol.com), March 09, 1999.

Freddie the Freeloader speaks!

Let the answers speak for themselves! If you read my post again, you will see that I NEVER attacked the Mormon Church, in fact I highly respect them, because I live among them! I only attacked a man who is lying through his teeth! A man who is responsible to his constituents for their welfare!

Our Constitution gives all Americans FREEDOM OF RELIGION. The Mormons have been persecuted more in this country then ANY other religion! That's a crime and disgrace to what our country stands for! They had to flee and cross the plains in handcarts to save themselves from the same kind of un-American people who are attacking them now in this post.

Yes, I say un-American, because if you believed in the Bill of Rights and freedom of religion, you would stop persecuting people for their religious beliefs, with lies and untruths!!! In fact the Mormons do more good in the world then any other religion, and that is because members give 10% of their income to their Church.

Whenever there is an earthquake or flood, the Mormons are the first with a planeload of food and blankets, etc. You very seldom see any other church do that! The Mormon bashers are really petty narrow minded individuals who are walking around with the blinders on. If you bash the Mormons, you simply have no clue what good people they are!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), March 09, 1999.

If the Mormons are such good people, why do they allow someone that is to be considered "a Hitler or Stalin" to be a member in good standing with the church? Especially, someone who is as high profile as Sen. Bennett? This is not meant as an attack against the Mormon Church or Sen. Bennett, but rather an attack on Freddie's faulty logic.

-- RobbY2K (robby2k@uno.com), March 09, 1999.

RobbY2K, that is a stupid statement! Just wait until Y2K and millions will die as a result of Bennet's lying. I'm betting that "then" Bennet will be called on the carpet!

-- Freddie the Freeloader (freddie@aol.com), March 09, 1999.

Freddie, the Southern Baptists tithe too......also at 10%. I'm not one but live in the midst of thousands. We Catholics just pass the plate and put in whatever.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), March 09, 1999.