I heard a sound-bite on the tube today - something about a recent survey showing that the more people are on the computer, the more lonely they tend to feel. My mind jumped to the time I have spent on the net, and here at the Forum. Perhaps there is someone else here who heard this sound-bite or is familiar with this topic. I am not saying I buy this, just that I thought it would be interesting to explore some ideas related to Y2K and loneliness, so here goes.

The first thing that jumped out at me is the fact that I have often felt lonely being aware of Y2K while many around me are oblivious or unconcerned. Feeling lonely is just one of the feelings that we sometimes endure, as a result of taking Y2K seriously. One of the things that I have found to relieve this is being on this Forum, so in that respect I would have to say the survey results came to me as a surprise at first. Perhaps it depends on how time is spent on the computer, which in turn correlates to the survey result of increased feelings of loneliness.

Another aspect of this is that of building, for lack of a better term, cyber-friendships. Getting familiar with some of the posters, sharing experiences, and over time getting to 'know' people and appreciate them for whatever it is they bring to us. Also having them express appreciation back to you for something. This building of cyber-friendships may take a while, but it also can help to mitigate that lonely feeling that can sometimes overwhelm us in this crazy world.

There is also just plain old loneliness in general, without Y2K. Just because we are Y2K aware doesn't mean that life stops. We still laugh and cry, and have to deal with everything we normally would - all in addition to Y2K. There have been times (this may sound nuts) that I have felt lonely, and yet I was surrounded by people. Yet I can recall other times where I have been by myself, with my own thoughts, and did not feel this way. So perhaps it is a state of mind, or at least related to a person's state of mind. We always have ourselves for 'company', though what kind of company we are to ourselves may be what matters. Perhaps before we can be good company for each other, we must first be good company for ourselves. This, I feel, would have some impact on loneliness. Well, I am starting to ramble and so shall just ask what your thoughts are, if any, on this subject.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), April 07, 1999

Answers

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

-Nietzsche

-- Uncle Deedah (oncebitten@twiceshy.com), April 08, 1999.

An individual has always been frightned while being chased by the tribe!

-Spun@lright

-- spun@lright (mikeymac@uswest.net), April 08, 1999.

Rob -

Early on I went through some very dark, lonely days and sleepless nights due to y2k. It really was a roller coaster for me for quite some time until I figured out that no matter how much "news" I hear the bottom line was that not enough will be fixed in time to avoid disruptions. The only question became how much of my life and the lives of my family would be disrupted and the answer is unknown.

So, I decided to get lost in my family instead of getting torn apart by the fear for my family. After all, if I don't make these moments count then my life is already suffered from TEOTWAIKI.

As for just being lonely. Well, I work at home and most days I am alone. I suppose I just got used to it but being somewhat introverted has its advantages : ) Of course, some days my 3 year old son is pulling at my hand and saying "c'mon daddy, c'mon...draw Batman!!!" and my life is pretty much put into perspective right then and there!

Mike =========================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign3@aol.com), April 08, 1999.

Preparing for Y2K and early medically retired but much too educated (not IT)has been like being a fish with only one fin trying to swim upstream, avoiding the sharper edges (doomers) of the rocks and avoiding being lulled or lured into the schools of fishes happily heading downstream (pollys)to a very large cliff and a very long fall. This forum gives me the strength to head in a different direction from the tribe.

-- Leslie (***@***.net), April 08, 1999.

Political Incorrectness alert:::>

Spun@lright:: Depends on the color of the respective skins and whether one is attached to his/her hair in any meaningful way.

cr

-- Chuck, a night driver (reinzoo@en.com), April 08, 1999.

CODSWALLUP...I say.

I wish that was a Inet article, Rob, or something that could be verified. I, for one, have never enjoyed community as much as I have since getting online. Beside my few "real life" friends, the circle of people about whom I genuinely care has increased tenfold, at least, since I inadvertantly came into possession of this computer.

I am involved with a chatroom community on AOL. In the last three years, I've laughed more, cried, worried, empathised, sympathised with and felt more deeply more often than in the three years prior.

Becoming involved in this forum, as well as other discussion venues, has encouraged me to read more, think harder, reason more clearly and write better than any other influence. And it has really improved my typing.

I would like to hear from ONE person who feels more lonely after having experienced the pure mind-to-mind, sometimes soul-to-soul, communication that can be enjoyed in here, unadulterated with distractions of the physical.

Sometimes I feel frustrated in not being able to hug someone or shake his hand or dry her eye or gaze at longingly. But lonely? That's certainly not my online experience.

Hallyx

"Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born." -- Anais Nin

-- Hallyx (Hallyx@aol.com), April 08, 1999.

I've heard this same report on the news, Rob. Like you, I think it depends on where on the net you hang out. Also, the report I heard was talking about young people in particular, so they may be on the net because they don't have physical friends. If all my friends were the cyber variety, I'd feel very lonely, too. I need my hugs to be felt! That said, there are several people here whose friendship is valuable to me, people with whom I've laughed and cried and who understand the Y2K emotional rollercoaster better than most of my physical friends. Y'all know who you are - thanks!

-- Tricia the Canuck (jayles@telusplanet.net), April 08, 1999.

Are people on the net forming a giant group-mind?

-- Helen (sstaten@fullnet.net), April 08, 1999.

There's a huge difference between being alone and being lonely. The Hungarian and I often have discussed the emphasis on "togetherness" one finds in the US and a few other countries. We find it a bit cloying and uncomfortable. Part of it for both of us is that we were brought up in countries where the persons-per-square-mile ratios are much denser. For instance, two-storey houses are less expensive than one-storeys (I know, it's the Brit spelling) because they take up less land--land is very expensive due to its scarcity.

People density is, I think, one reason the Brits are reputedly so polite (soccer hooligans excepted). We were crammed into tiny 4-room terraced houses in cities during the Industrial Revolution, where we shared small backyards (asphalt!) and outdoor WCs (usually half the actual number of houses so that two families shared a WC). In such cramped conditions, people became much more considerate of each other--they had to, or kill each other! No wonder the wide open spaces of the (former) colonies and the United States held such appeal in the last half of the 1800s, first half of the 1900s!

Perhaps it wasn't the Industrial Revolution at all. Perhaps people always kept to themselves. With The Hungarian, there were the Communists to worry about--you had to keep your mouth shut or face penalties are worse. I don't recall that much of Hungarian history, except as it relates to the Austro-Hungarian empire, but I do know that British history, replete with persecutions and executions of heretics (either Protestant or Catholic depending on the monarch) gave rise to tight lips and aloneness. Even today, I feel a twinge when someone asks me what church I go to--it's not polite to ask a Brit such a question because it was so dangerous long ago (and still is in Northern Ireland).

Arabs are very warm and friendly with each other, as you see when men kiss each other on the cheek. The slang word for Brits in Arabic means "the cold people." The slang word for Americans means "the crazy people". . .

Sorry, didn't mean to go on so long but I feel it's important to point out that it's not necessarily weird or mentally unhealthy to "vant to be a-lohn." Greta Garbo might have been normal and everyone else "crazy"!

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), April 08, 1999.

"The slang word for Brits in Arabic means "the cold people." The slang word for Americans means "the crazy people". . . "

We'll be polite & not mention our slang word for Arabs... ;->

-- it (isnt@very.nice), April 08, 1999.

Git -- I usually find your posts right on -- in this case re crowding making people polite. Ever heard of New York City, etc., and U.S. slum areas? Or maybe you did get it right -- got to be polite or else kill each other.

-- AS (A@AisA.com), April 08, 1999.

Thanks, AS. Your remark is astute and well taken. The seeds of good behavior were sown in the Victorian era, when the Industrial Revolution forced the crowding. The Powers That Be, the elite, the aristocracy, whatever, had the influence to impose good behavior on the masses. Some of that imposition took the form of "Peelers" or "Bobbies"--the new police force, strictly regulated and, eventually, highly respected (until recently). Those people who emigrated to the United States during the same period were very often individualists who said "to hell with the lord and master, I'll be my own man!" Or they were running from the law or deported convicts. Britain was left with a more compliant population. In addition, the Victorians were the ones who started all the big charities. Those women and some men made their lasting mark on the population, not the least in teaching hygiene, good table manners and "please" and "thank you" when the charity was dished out.

This is a much simplified version, but it's a bit long as it is.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), April 08, 1999.

I think personally, that there are advantages to things on the net such as this forum, but there are other needs that "virtual" relationships cannot provide. This forum gives people a chance to see what others all over the world are thinking/doing re: y2k- not just in their corner of the world. However, it doesn't/can't substitute for close relationships with family, friends and neighbors.

You might have lots of good conversations on this forum, but if TSHTF, it's your family and neighbors you'll need to depend on. So- do both.

We're part of a local Y2K "group" up on our mountain that's discussing some of this stuff- with a mix of viewpoints from TEOTWAWKI to "a bump in the road"- but we're all neighbors and we like eachother and I know no matter what, we'll look out for eachother. So- I do both both local and "virtual" networking.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), April 08, 1999.

Balance in all things.

When you feel lonely, change your experience.

When you choose to be alone, create a delightful feeling of honoring yourself and your alone time.

I enjoy and am often enriched by the mental connect with cyber- friends. Researching for news, information, knowledge and wisdom, instantly, is a complete joy.

And I'd be humanly diminished without the physical, emotional, mental and spiritual connections with the "real" human world. There's nothing quite like gathering with dear friends and family, for shared meals, laughter, wine and song.

Both "worlds" have their rightness of place in ones choices.

Diane

-- Diane J. Squire (sacredspaces@yahoo.com), April 08, 1999.

Thnaks Gang - some good points and counterpoints were brought up - and it was great to see some of you post that I hadn't heard from in a while.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@com.net), April 08, 1999.

Hallyx - couldn't have said it better myself :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 09, 1999.

RE The article... I recall learning about survey questions and how carefully determined they ought to be to not bias the answers... and of course the results(tabulated) are 'statistics' any one can make any point at all with statistics...

Anyway, what if people who (apart from any computer/net influence) are lonely people? Such people may (having more free time) be drawn to the computer. As such, the computer is not the cause, only an effect or possibly symptom...

-- EvilRoy (EvilRoy@NoSpam.com), April 09, 1999.

Glad I tuned in tonight. Thanks, Rob & Hallyx.

y2k brought me some special loneliness-combatting needs and this forum was the remedy. I don't feel like something awful can sneak up on me and I family since you're all keeping alert to developments. The tendency toward hyper-vigilance has been reduced. I'm part of something meaningful, as much as can be found in a potential pre- disaster situation (a rarity on its own!)

And, if y2k turns out to be a 1-3, we'll have the satisfaction of having conducted ourselves decently among sterling company.

Encountering intelligent life in a stupidly-careening world gets MY day straightened out. Thanks, gang!

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.com), April 09, 1999.

Hallyx said, "I, for one, have never enjoyed community as much as I have since getting online," and Old Git said, "There's a huge difference between being alone and being lonely." Those two statements reflect exactly how I feel. I also find too much "togetherness cloying."

My husband is a first generation Swede, and we feel the same about being alone. And although we have many shared interests, working together, gardening, etc. we respect each others need to be alone.. B.O. (before online) I spent more time in the living room reading and listening to music and reading while he watched TV in the den. After retiring, we had more time, so we got online and enjoy that too.

The community I've felt online, since discovering Y2K, has kept me from ever feeling lonely about this looming unknown. I've made friends that have helped me and given me, some humorous advice; "A dab of pennyroyal before going to the garden will discourrage both bugs and frisky husbands." cutting advice; "Go ahead and use 100 lbs. pressure dumbhead, and you'll be scraping yer beans off the ceiling, if you still have a ceiling!" (this was after I'd put in an extra 0, Hallyx my typing hasn't improved.) holier-than-thou advice; "Secular people don't need to prepare, they're already doomed to hell." and good advice; "Be prepared whether Y2K happens or not."

I still enjoy my friends, but not one of them is y2k compliant. hee hee! But I like them, and laugh at all the jokes from them that turn up in my e-mail about y2k. But if I want to discuss y2k, my internet buddies are who I turn to. But my Internet time is limited to before the day starts and after the day ends, and that's how I like it. Luckily I'm never lonely.

-- gilda jessie (jess@listbot.com), April 09, 1999.

superficially the brits are polite, its one of those cultural mostly automatic things, the other behaviour we portay frequently is constantly apologising, even when there is no need to do so

I suppose being polite does help in an overcrowded country, things are changing though, there is much more of a boorish attitude developing (eg as Men Behaving Badly tv prog), its all part of the "levelling process", I also see mass hysteria developing at the merest hint of an "issue", it all started with the death of Diana when the nation when berserk (en masse), trouble is that with the situation in Yugoslavia, its could be dangerous, I can see now why Blair has boosted his ratings, we now have a mass support for the Labour Government even amongst those who have never previously voted labour in their lives

-- dick of the dale (rdale@coynet.com), April 09, 1999.

Other famous lonely people:

James Earl Ray

Mark David Chapman

John Hinkley

Lee Harvey Oswald

There is a reason why some people withdraw from society and it ain't because they have some inside information about "y2k".

lol

-- (~~@~~.com), April 09, 1999.