Snooze Snooze Where is our esteemed press? There has been virtually no discussion of the major risk of Neutron Bombs which could wipe out computer systems, electric grids, banking systems etc. with 2 high level bursts over the U S thanks to Clintons gift of this technology to the Chinese. This

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could be one of the biggest threats to our future. The physical damage would be minimal but with the economy, computers, motor vehicle ignition systems, communications, and virtually all electronic equipment destroyed except hardened equipment encased in metal covers with shielded wires there is practically no discussion of this threat. The government attacks Yugoslovia and strengthens their leader, kills innocent people and enrages the citizens of other countries. This is not the way to make friends. Would the attack be before or after Y2k impacts? Both sides would have impaired capacity to function after Y2k. I am not impressed with our leaders. The word is NEUTRON BOMBS. (nuclear weapons) Wake up Dan and Jim and Rush and the other fearless leaders of our esteemed news establishments. If this happened, the destruction of the infrastructure would make serious Y2k disruptions minor by comparison.

-- Tom (notstupid@a.a.duh), April 10, 1999

Answers

Hi Tom,

a. it would take more than two.

b. there's no reason for China to do so.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 10, 1999.


BUT we are due for a god-supplied one as the year progresses, the extremely high solar flare activity due to hit us, oh, anytime soon...

-- Andrei-hung-lo (2000EOD@prodigy.net), April 10, 1999.

Arlin,

I beg to differ with you. China has ambitions beyond its borders. It considers us enemies.

Jolly doesn't speak Mandarin......yet.

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), April 10, 1999.


Tom is stupid. America is China's biggest purchaser of their products. Most items available in stores are from China.

China may not like us, but not bad enough to destroy us and at the same time destroy their own economy.

Hey Tom, you're really stupid to even suggest that China wants to destroy America!!!!

Tom, you're unbelievably stupid!

-- smitty (smitty@sandiego.com), April 10, 1999.


Arlin,

somewhere in teh deep recesses of what I like to refer to as my brain, I have a memory that it would only take a couple, at about the roughly 250,000 ft or 50 mile level, centered over, say Ddenver and St. Louis to pretty much kill the communications paths and most of teh rest of the C3I here. Eh?

Chuck, feeling canuckish (and YES I earned the right to use the term in college. went to one of them northern hockey colleges and most of my friends were from Oshawa (phoenetic) and points north, where Lowell green was considered a southerner.)

-- Chuck, a night driver (reinzoo@en.com), April 10, 1999.



You don't need nuetron bombs to do this, any large enough, plain ole neclear weapon set off at the proper altitude will electronically cripple the country. That was proven by accident in the fifties when a few high-altitude Pacific test shots really screwed up life in Hawaii. From several many hundred miles away, there were blackouts, phone problems and radio and TV broadcasting was knocked out.

Nuetron enhanced radiation weapons on the other hand, are designed to kill people with direct radiation from smaller explosions. That way you don't destroy everything your enemy owns and that you want, you just destroy your enemy.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), April 10, 1999.


I believe Wildweasel is right about neutron bombs; better to 'save' those for the population centers.

There's a pretty good overview of what Chuck is talking about at:

http://jya.com/emp08.htm

Scroll down to Figure 8-3.

=DSA. [Got potassium iodide for your kids?]

-- David S. Angal (dsangal@ibm.net), April 10, 1999.


Arlin:

I can think of approximately 40 to 60 million reasons. The People's Republic of China (PRC) has an estimated population of 1.3+billion. In the last 20+ years the PRC has actively engaged in a one child policy. Most of the children allowed to be born are/were not female. The vast majority of children born in the PRC the last 20+ years have been males. Current estimates place the number as approximately 40 to 60 million more males than females (born in the 20+ year period).

After wars the number of males vs females is weighed heavily on the +female side. Russia and Germany etc., post WW2 are examples (although not to the extreme ratio as in PRC today) Where in history has that ratio been reversed to the extreme as in the PRC today? I realise that the numbers are approximate but, what does the PRC do with 10 to 20 million excess young men (with that number increasing each year)?

Demographics impacts the future. See Otto Scott's 'Compass' for further reading. www.the-compass.com

BR

-- brother rat (rldabney@usa.net), April 10, 1999.


The US has devices designed specifically to take out electronic devices without the unpleasant side effects from a nuclear explosion (radiation, broadband RFI/EMI that can affect equipment thousands of miles away, the incredible noise, etc.)

For specifics, hit http://www.infowar.com/mil_c4i/mil_c4i8.html-ssi

OddOne, who is starting to think he should consider building a Faraday Cage for his Ham shack and computer room...

-- OddOne (mocklamer@geocities.com), April 10, 1999.


WW - you are correct, sorry, I was tired when I wrote that post.

Chuck, while it is technically possible to EMP about 2/3 or North America with a couple of high powered nukes at high altitude, the only safe way for any country to do so would require them to neutralize ALL of the USN's boomers at the same time. FYI: Navy boomer captains have the authority to launch independently should such become neccessary. The Chinese (and everybody else) know this and would not be likely to commit delayed suicide by attacking CONUS while leaving the US boomer fleet intact.

and now, a bit on China:

the first thing you have to understand about dealing with the Chinese is the name of their country CHUNG GUO (ignoring the tonal aspects pronounce it "choong gooah" with the accent on the 'choong'). The name of the country literally means 'middle kingdom' or middle country. Now that doesn't sound like much to western ears, until one realizes that the 'middle' they are talking about here is the balance point between heaven and hell. In other words, it is an inherent part of their culture and psychology that China is the most perfect place on earth. The only thing above them is heaven, and everything below them is simply various degradations of hell.

Remember this sort of indoctrination occurs below the level of anything the communists are capable of teaching - it's part of the inherent culture to which children are exposed from birth, and it effects their outlook on the world at least as much as the cultural imperative toward individual rights effects the perspective of almost all of us here in the U.S.

stemming from the above is the belief that anywhere other than China is much worse; and no one in their right mind would ever want to live any place other than China. This leads to a psychological outlook which is defensive in nature.

First off, the Chinese would not want to take over Europe or the western hemisphere, simply because to do so they would have to live somewhere other than China. Remember that for the Chinese, there is literally no place like home.

Secondly, the underlying presumption of Chinese psychology is that the motherland must be defended because, since it's the best place in the world to live, EVERYONE in the world will want to take it over and live there! In fact everyone in the world will find it so desirable that they will try to conquor it as soon as they discover what they're missing...and who wants a bunch of foreign demons (that's the literal translation of the traditional term many Chinese use to refer to non-Chinese), running around messing up the country? By the way, that might also be translated as 'alien demons'...as in 'space aliens' as in not from this planet as in not human.

truth: one of the reasons that the Chinese look down on Americans is because by and large Americans do NOT want to live in China...we are obviously thus below normal intelligence and just generally Don't Get It from the perspective of the Chinese. We're also a bunch of savages who have no sense of community or responsibility, and are disruptive to everyone around us. Even our dominant religion is disruptive and individualistic; and contributes to social unrest.

In other words, the Chinese don't want to conquor the US or Western Europe, they simply want us to go away. Or barring that, at least leave them alone, other than to trade with them for goods and services. As for the present, they realize that they don't dare attempt to destroy us, so their next best option is to make themselves as invulnerable as possible to any invasion attempt, both through conventional weapons, and through a nuclear retaliatory capability should such appear to be neccessary.

just my 2 cents' worth on this one,

Arlin

[who usta speak Mandarin, a long time ago.]

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), April 10, 1999.



David, Chuck, and WW are right. Thanks David for those great graphics. They explain it very well. Also the text files are a great resource for anybody that want to understand EMP.

To Arlin and Smitty (though it is an insult to Arlin to group him with Smitty) - Adding another rock to BR's bucket I'ld like to point out that if the banking system in the US collapses, how much is US of A going to be buying form China?

Smitty - Take two aspirin, listen to some tranquil music and kick back for a bit. You'll be a better communicator if you discuss ideas rather than doing the playground nyah, nyah, nyah-nyah, nyah routine.

Since it only requires one bomb at 120 miles above Omaha (hi Mom, hi Dad), a very likely perpetrator would be someone like Assad, Kadafi, or Sadam. Though if China gets impatient (however, considering their "final solution" for Tibet, this is unlikely) about Taiwan and the US is no longer buying Red Chinese products they might see an EMP strike as the easiest way to take Taiwan.

Little P.S. the neutron bomb really isn't an enhanced radiation device per se. (unlike the doomsday cobalt jacketed bombs which were thankfully never built) The physics of the matter are this: increasing the overall yeild of a nuke increases the blast effects greatly, but the prompt radiation very very little - decreasing the overall yeild of a nuke decreases the glast effect greatly, but the prompt radiation very very little. Therefore, the radius of assured kill via blast varies widely while the radius of assured kill for prompt radiation stays about the same. Both radiuses are about the same for a 20kt unit. Going to a 50kt gives you something that you don't have to worry about the prompt nuetron radiation at all, since the limits of hazard from radiation are way way inside the blast radius. Ie. don't worry about a few REM if the overpressure is 20PSI. Conversely, if one makes a 5kt bomb the radius of assured kill from prompt radiation is larger than the kill radius from blast effect. If one had a 1 kt device the disparity in kill radiuses is even greater.

So strictly speaking the neutron bomb wasn't invented (other than the technical problems of making a small bomb) per se as much as it was a discovery of a new way of thinking about the nature of nuclear explosions. Ie. before then, "bigger bang for the buck" was the zeitgeist and the radiation was just a waste product of the blast effect which was the "product".

-- Ken Seger (kenseger@earthlink.net), April 10, 1999.


Smitty, most of the responders posted facts. Your response called Tom something that would better describe your post. Tom is not stupid and raised a valid point. What is your contribution?

-- Duh (bbb@b.duh), April 10, 1999.

Tom,

Our military technology is light years ahead of anywhere in the world, so the only real threat to the U.S. is terrorism, particulary biological or chemical, initiated from within our own borders. How do you imagine that any foreign country would be able to enter or launch a neutron bomb into our airspace without being detected? Please take your Rush Limbaugh propaganda to another forum, I'm sick of hearing it.

-- @ (@@@.@), April 10, 1999.


i know i'm not smart (but), why isn't slick willie in jail?????????

-- Louis Lesky (tom4107842@aol.com), April 14, 2004.

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