what to do where to go??the hills??my family lives in texas,and with that many large cities,texas is burnt toast(too many guns as well)where to go??

-- first time poster (skip@aol.com), April 22, 1999

Answers

Texas is one big area and certainly not filled with cities. Does your family live in one of its larger cities? If not, thats where I would head. I don't think you have to worry about most Texans and their guns. They have always had their guns and aren't apt to misuse them. somehow I can't see a small town Texan being in a panic over y2k and probably are more prepared than most even if they don't know about it. They don't run to the supermkt on a daily basis. I would still rather be in the south somewhere where I would not be so likely to freeze to death. Take a vacation and if the city where you live burns, don't go home. Stuff the car with camping goods and food and just leave town for awhile. Each of us has different circumstances therefore there is no one answer for everyone. I live in the forest in Florida with lots of rivers and lakes. If the power goes down, our forests will be full of campers from the north. And I don't blame them. Taz

-- Taz (Tassie @aol.com), April 22, 1999.

Taz,

Let me preface this by saying that I don't mean to seem insulting. But your comment about "campers from up north"...well, I am from up North. I don't know anyone from up here that's planning on going down to Florida. Granted, "up north" is a very big area. But here's my line of thought - "Up north" is isolated enough - why would anyone pack up and move down by you? It seems to me that we're going to do everything we can to hold on to our land and homes up here...

Respectfully,

Dan

-- Daniel Buchner (dbuchner@logistics.calibersys.com), April 22, 1999.

National Forest,BLM,anywhere remote with a hand pumped well. If remote enough, you could make serveral trips with basic supplies, and run little risk of getting robbed. Get plastic storage boxs to keep out water, bugs, snakes, etc. Raccoons and others may be more of a problem than people. If you are up to it, any young experienced outdoorsman, camper, etc. should be, then you may not even notice the chaos, unless you turn on a radio. If my circumstances were different, then this would be my plan. Good luck. P.S. Keep a diary.

-- curtis schalek (schale1@ibm.net), April 22, 1999.

I sense that this question will be asked by a lot of people, and I'm not sure I can agree that one should head FOR the biggest cities (?! Taz did you MEAN to say that??). Metro cities are at higher risk of Y2K nightmares than anywhere else -- millions of people, high crime, and if power / water / sewage / natural gas / etc. goes down it's going to look like apocalypse from inside. At least in rural areas, many people are more self sufficient, there are farms around with cattle and agriculture, and there's a much smaller population density.

When I first heard about Y2K computer problems, I thought about the effects of this domino chain on utilities and products. Then I thought about cities. Then I said, "I would expect a truly mercenary power ruling the cities, to just close the borders, let 'em burn, and sort it out later." I still suspect that may be the only real way to deal with Y2K in those areas. The roadblocks may not be to keep people out but to keep people IN. This is paranoia mind you and there is NO, ZERO evidence that this will happen. There are items which can be read to indicate that, but, lots of stuff can be read as lots of things depending on whether we want to filter it that way or not.

There is no reason for the fear of guns unless you're in the city. What fear of guns in rural areas means (a) don't try to commit looting against these people since most 13 year olds have a hunting rifle; and (b) that means these people are more capable of hunting, defense, et al. That is not a bad thing. It's a good thing. Unless you are planning to do bad things to good people, in which case you should definitely avoid anybody with a gun.

Now to practical matters. I really do NOT think it's possible for anybody asking such a question to pack up the family and move "to the wilderness" or "get a well" or whatever, as mentioned above and in other places. If they had that money, that land, that ability, that knowledge of where someplace to go even WAS, they wouldn't be asking the question. And people with kids especially... just doesn't work. Besides which the nearest 'wildnerness' to each city is going to have a bunch of survivalists, most of whom are more likely to shoot each other than deer (by accident or design), and all of which will be in the "hunter-survival-of-fittest" mode -- as opposed to the "let's work through this crisis" mode as many neighborhoods might be.

If you don't think people with a gun are going to come tell you to get the hell off their land -- everything you see is owned, if not by people, by the state or federal government - you're wrong, and this idea of living like a Marine in a survivalist course is practical for single young men with Marine survivalist training and approximately nobody else. For families or people not trained to that, it's a romantic notion that sounds good on paper and will likely see them killed or in far worse circumstance in real life.

I would suggest the following to people in the city who simply cannot move from the city prior to Y2K:

1. Do what you can to acquire communications ability. Learn HAM radio and get what you need for transmitting, get on the internet, join clubs, whatever you want, but get in touch with people. When danger comes more from surprises than anything, when we don't know where problems are going to be or what they'll be or what degree, being able to communicate has a special significance: (a) if you communicate now, you might be able to find somebody of like mind who lives OUTside the city that you could join for Y2K, pooling your preparation resources; and (b) if you still have power (or backup batteries for HAM radios) after the switchover, you'll be able to see where problems are and perhaps get a hint of impending danger to your location (other than neighbors, which will be a danger... eventually). If you make friends now, you may have a place to run to in an emergency, even if temporarily, and that's better than nothing.

2. Note 1.(a) above. You may be able to find somebody who lives outside the city who would agree to a potentially temporary or just-in-case stay at their place. How many people are real poor, or are single mothers, or something that frankly makes it very hard for them to prepare the way they need to. You may be able to make it work for both you and them. You need to find them, first. Put ads in rural papers, search for internet sites for towns outside the city, go to Y2K meetings, stuff like that.

3. Prepare as much as you can. Whatever you've got may be tradeable to neighbors for what you haven't got, or may be tradeable to other people if you run from town and have to go knocking on doors. You might however want to consider what is portable in this case.

4. Going camping for the occasion is not a bad idea, and you and about 2 bazillion people probably have it. It may not be possible or practical to find any camping spot. And if you do and things are bad and people can't go home, you're a wide open target with all the defense of a tent.

However just driving outside the city (take extra gas and all your prep stuff) and stopping in some little-tiny-town motel or something might work. Be prepared to end up abandoned in a strange place, just like you would if you were camping. Might be a good idea to scout out little rural towns now, see if you can shop in the stores, get to know the locals.... might not help but wouldn't hurt.

Obviously, the main answer is "get out of the city." Go visit a relative if you have one who lives in a rural or country area. Go camping if you can, just drive away and plan to eventually rent a little hotel room for a couple days if you can. Anything. You could not pay me enough money to be sitting in the middle of Dallas when Y2K arrives.

PJ in TX

-- PJ Gaenir (fire@firedocs.com), April 22, 1999.

I plan on going camping a few times this year (haven't done it for quite awhile) and have been wondering what is essential and what would be nice to have at the camp site. Drinkable water, food/cooking, and shelter/warmth are the most important things, so let's start here.

The Katadyn Pocket Pump seems to be a popular little water filter. It costs about $250. A five gallon plastic jug to keep water at the camp site (instead of going to the water source every time you need a drink or water for cooking/cleaning) is about $5 bucks and it's easy to get.

While I could easily throw some can food in the car, I know what can food tastes like. I've been thinking about trying a three day supply of dehydrated food from Alpen Aire or such. I think this costs about $25 per person at the local outfitter. Cast iron skillet, lard for re-seasoning the cast iron skillet (just in case, I feel like making soup), petromax stove and a 5 gallon can of kerosene comes to $100.

I've been looking at tents (Northface expedition) and think the Guide Tent is suitable. It weighs 10 lbs, 10 ounces, height is 49", floor area is 47.7' square feet, and it sleeps three. It runs about $700.

Keeping warm: Sleeping pad (Cascade Designs LE costs about $100 each), sleeping bag (expedition quality run from $500 to $700 each), parka (North Face Himalayan Parka is about $600 each), snow shoes (Atlas is about $270 each), Gaitors (Crocodiles are about $50 per pair), Gloves (BD GTX Leather about $140 a pair), Northface underwear ($80 for top and bottom per person), Chill Factor Jacket and Wind proof pants ($350 per person), and some great fitting boots ($300 per person).

For light and heat, I thought about the Petromax lantern. It's bright!

Already, the cost for two people is just about $5,585, and don't you forget that this is just the basics. Granted, most of this gear is serious equipment... the kind of stuff that is used on Alaskan mountain treks. On the other hand, the food was pretty cheap and there wasn't a lot of extras considering what you'd need if Y2K is bad.

What about the other things?

Big backpacks (Dana Designs Terraplane Back Pack ($430 each), hat ($25 each), and goggles ($50 each). Expensive? We're just getting started!

Miscellaneous (Winter Expedition): 1 quart water bottles (x 2 per person) 1 quart thermos (1 per person) Water bottle parkas Shovel Insulated cup Metal eating bowl (large) Fork and Spoon Knife 50' Accessory Cord/Rope Handy Wipes (Baby Wipes) Lighters Radio Foot Powder Pee Bottle

Estimated Cost of Miscellaneous Items: $120 per person

Repair Kit: Small Vise Grip Repair Tape Razor Blades Leather Man Swiss Army Knife Pole Repair Sleeves Dental Floss Stitch All or Needles Small role wire Seam Grip Duct tape Zipper Repair Kit Extra Stove Parts Extra Lantern Parts Air Pump

Estimated cost of Repair Kit: $200

Medical Kit First aid tape Band Aides Gauze Ace bandage Sterile wipes Gym Tape Aspirin Antacid Anti-diareahal Cavit (temp. filling) General antibiotic Broad Spectrum Antibiotics *Diamox *Decadron *Procardia *Pain Killer-prescription

Estimated cost of a basic medical kit: $200

Total cost of your most basic hard-winter camping preparation: $7,235. For your Y2K camping scenario (say, six months) plan on spending up to $5,000 more on food, water storage, cooking niceities, seeds, and etc. On the other hand, home preparations can run a lot higher (especially since some of you will be expecting to enjoy more creaturely comforts than the camper. The average mid and upper middle class Y2Ker (whose staying home) would like to spend $20,000 if they were starting from scratch. Many will spend $5,000 or more from what I am hearing from retailers. The less fortunate may have to make do with about $1,000.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

P.S. I can't afford to go camping this year.

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), April 22, 1999.

During the past several years, the US Forest Service, Bureau of Land management and US Fish and Wildlife have armed personnel that patrol the forests and reserves. State Fish and Game also has armed wardens. Roaded access to the public is being obliterated by moratoriums on creation, maintenance and repair. Most secondary roads are closed in winter for environmental reasons. Locals next to federal lands have been alarmed at the increase of armed agency personnel and various regulations have been proposed to encroach on State legislative, civil and criminal jurisdiction over these lands. (e.g. You may be turned away from your local "public lands.")

-- nocamping (nocamping@beware.com), April 22, 1999.

Hey, here's an idea: stay where you are. Throw a party.

Let the yahoos run off to the moutains and shoot themselves.

Come Jan 3rd you can welcome them back. And maybe buy some of that y2k survival equipment at a BIG discount!

-- nospam (nospam@nospam.com), April 22, 1999.