Russia has become a world leader in homicide, chalking up close to three
times more murders per capita each year than the United States, five times
more than France, and seven times more than Germany. Only a handful of
countries, including Colombia, outstrip Russia, although there are no exact
global figures.



The soaring murder rate is part of a broader explosion of crime in Russia.
The country's economic slide is partly to blame; so are the opportunities
opened by economic reforms. There are more and better cars to steal, more and
wealthier customers for prostitutes, more and pricier properties to fight
over.



Jobs, education and technical training  to say nothing of salaries, pensions
and other social support  are no longer guaranteed. Laws and policing have
weakened, drug use has soared and corruption is rampant.



"There's been a massive catastrophe of values, a loss of goals,'' said Igor
Arshinov, a psychologist at Moscow's Institute of Neuroses. "Earlier, society
was building communism. People knew it was idiotic, but on some level they
still bought into it.''



The country's murder rate doubled between 1990, the first year official
nationwide murder figures were published, and 1994, when the level of murders
and murder attempts reached 32,286. The next year, it began a three-year dip
nationwide, but resumed its rise again last year, to reach about 29,550,
according to the Interior Ministry.



http://www.foxnews.com/js_index.sml?content=/news/wires2/index.sml



=======



Russia is coming apart at the seams. Guess what happens when Y2K hits?




--
Paul Milne
If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast.



NORTH KOREA
Starving millions eat grass




Hong Kong: Millions of North Koreans have been reduced to eating seaweed,
cabbage stalks and grass.



They forage for edible roots, grasses and seaweed or eat a concoction of
"stomach-filling" substances such as cabbage stalks, corn stalks and grass
mixed with a little cereal and an enzyme.



With no prospect of real food for the next two months - when some new-season
crops will start yielding food - hundreds of thousands of refugees have been
flowing across the border into China.



Pyongyang has simply "run out of food", says the United Nations World Food
Program



=======




And then....Y2K hits.



But nothing 'bad' will happen...oh no.



http://www.smh.com.au/news/9904/30/world/world13.html
--
Paul Milne
If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast.

-- a (a@a.a), May 04, 1999

Answers

And your point is, I seem to be missing it. People know that Russian has crime, and that North Korea due to their Communist government have been having food supply problems, but how will Y2K make it any worse? Please tie in some actual factual data that Y2K will increase crime and food problems in the respective nations.

-- Pat (BAMECW@aol.com), May 04, 1999.

Pat: It's called "putting 2 and 2 together".

-- a (a@a.a), May 04, 1999.

...if your Paul Milne you always get 5...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), May 04, 1999.

How can someone who is eating grass and roots be negatively impacted by Y2K disruptions?

-- Polly (skippy@innermongolia.com), May 04, 1999.

a,

Could you do me a favor? Sometimes, you might leave out Paul's quote, "If you live within five miles of a 7-11, you're toast." I live within five miles of several 7-11s, grocery stores, Home Depot, Hechingers, warehouse, etc. and I'm not "toast" and never will be "toast". I am a human being that deserves a little more respect than "toast". And if I'm dead, one day, I would really appreciate not being referred to as "Toast". Nor would I ever like "Toast" to be inscribed on my little headstone. Whatever happens, Paul Milne still has some very real emotional problems to work out.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), May 04, 1999.

How can someone who is eating grass and roots be negatively impacted by Y2K disruptions?

They'll have to eat in the dark?

-- Doug (Doug@work.now), May 04, 1999.

How can you put 2 and 2 together but not provide any factual basis as one part of the 2 are the above article, and the second 2 is speculation?

-- Pat (BAMECW@aol.com), May 04, 1999.

Polly denial buttheads: No food in the stores; no Megacorp agri-business able to plant or harvest; means YOU and other unprepared will be eating grass unless you've got a stash and/or your own little farm. TOAST

-- A (A@AisA.com), May 04, 1999.

Pat,

"And your point is, I seem to be missing it. People know that Russian has crime, and that North Korea due to their Communist government have been having food supply problems, but how will Y2K make it any worse?"

A coupla scenarios. Very brief.

1. Proud people. Starving. Generals. Finger. Button.

2. Trade. Lack of.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), May 04, 1999.

a, A, Andy,

Okay, you've had your cute wit-shots at Pat. I've posted cute wit-shots in other threads. Fine.

Now, how about posting straightforward answers to Pat's inquiry?

_How_ will Y2k worsen the murder rate in Russia and starvation in North Korea? Is there any significant "Megacorp agri-business" in either Russia or North Korea? If not, then how does Y2k disruption to "Megacorp agri-business" hurt North Korea's food situation or raise the murder rate in Russia?

"No food in the stores" -- Isn't that already the situation in North Korea? How does Y2k make it worse?

Andy: "1. Proud people. Starving. Generals. Finger. Button." So you're wittily saying that Russia will launch nukes if there's starvation there? But if you read the posting at the top of this thread, the Russian factor discussed is murder rate, not famine. Or were you referring to North Korea?

"Trade. Lack of." How much trade is alleviating North Korea's famine _now_ that Y2k could interrupt? (Or were you referring to Russia?)

I keep reading about N.K.'s refusal to accept food shipments labelled "From South Korea" (or something like that) and South Korea's refusal to ship food without so labelling it (or something like that). So how will Y2k change this?

Why not provide straightforward answers?

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), May 04, 1999.

No Spam,

You must be trying hard to overlook the obvious.

Someone already mentioned the "angry, starving Russians + nuclear button" issue. Add "angry, starving, North Koreans cross the 38th Parallel", the historic support agreements between North Korea and Russia plus the US and South Korea and you have the makings of a world-class military conflict.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), May 04, 1999.

Wildweasel,

>You must be trying hard to overlook the obvious.

Another wit-shot. Cute.

What I was addressing (obviously?) was a manifestation of style-over-substance in the responses to Pat.

>Someone already mentioned the "angry, starving Russians + nuclear button" issue.

Oh? Where? In a thread that a, A, Andy, and yourself know that Pat has already read? Did I miss the link?

Sure, _I_ and many other regulars have read mentions of the "angry, starving Russians + nuclear button" issue in other threads. But has Pat, to whom a's, A's, and Andy's responses were addressed?

>Add "angry, starving, North Koreans cross the 38th Parallel", the historic support agreements between North Korea and Russia plus the US and South Korea and you have the makings of a world-class military conflict.

See, a, A, and Andy?

WW could tie a few things together into a straightforward response to Pat's straightforward question (except that WW mistakenly addressed it to me instead of to Pat). It's not that hard to be informative in response to an honest question.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), May 04, 1999.

... except that it still doesn't really answer the part about how Y2k comes in.

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), May 04, 1999.

Pat,

Now that I've scolded the others, here's my attempt to fill in. Let me caution you here that what follows [except in square brakets like this] is not _MY_ forecast, but is my _interpretation_ of the forecasts or warnings of _others_ on this forum in regard to Russia/NK/Y2k.

>And your point is, I seem to be missing it.

Y2k problems, when added to the already-troubled situations in Russia and North Korea, may trigger significant military action by either or both of those countries. They will lash out because their own situations become intolerable.

>People know that Russian has crime, and that North Korea due to their Communist government have been having food supply problems, but how will Y2K make it any worse?

Russian crime: [Personally -- I, NSP, think that Y2k will not result in a higher Russian murder rate. The following is just a guess as to a's reasoning, pending a's own posting of a straightforward answer.] Y2k disruptions will worsen all sorts of things in Russian society, including the murder rate. This will be related to disruptions in the foreign aid that is now propping up Russian society.

North Korean food: Y2k will disrupt the ability of other countries to produce and transport food to alleviate North Korea's famine.

>Please tie in some actual factual data that Y2K will increase crime and food problems in the respective nations.

[I have to leave this one to the other responders.]

>How can you put 2 and 2 together but not provide any factual basis as one part of the 2 are the above article, and the second 2 is speculation?

[I have to leave this one to the other responders. :-)]

-- No Spam Please (No_Spam_Please@anon_ymous.com), May 04, 1999.

Pat/Nospam: The point of the post (Milne) is to put the context of y2k in perspective. Pollyannas dont want to accept that the world is on the brink of major upheaval.

When I said "put 2 and 2 together", what I meant was, y2k can only make matters worse. I dont have a crystal ball, but I think that much is a given.

If you are really interested in understanding this situation more fully, read Milne's postings for the past six months. Interspersed in his message of doom and gloom are actual news articles that spell it out in detail, much more so than I can do justice to here.

-- a (a@a.a), May 04, 1999.

Uh, guys, could I offer an alternative explanation here? I've been reading Paul for a good long while now, and he often uses events in other parts of the world -- where societal breakdowns and shortages already exist -- to illustrate what he feels will happen here in the USA and in the Western world in general in an 8+ y2k event. Beyond the obvious dangers inherent in Russian anarchy and North Korean famine, he's also saying *this could be us/US in ten months.* Parts of Russia are already breaking up into local fiefdoms, and people are being killed at mafia-run roadblocks over truckloads of vegetables. N. Koreans are eating grass this spring. Can you imagine hordes of Manhattanites combing Central Park for something green next spring?

-- Cash (cash@andcarry.com), May 05, 1999.

If they can afford to live in Manhattan they could view it as a chance to lose more weight. They might worry though about the availability of Starbucks.

-- wiseguy (simply@awise.guy), May 05, 1999.