I have read that there have been reports of unusual contrail patterns in the skies over New England and some other areas.

I really don't know much about this but on Sunday May 16th, 1999 I personally saw these wierd criss-cross patterns over Central PA. These "contrails" spread out and created an overcast sky. There were small puffy "normal" clouds below this contrail overcast.

Is there anything to this "contrail" thing ??? Anybody have any info ?

Just interested..

-- WebRNot (webrnot@ncap13k.com), May 17, 1999

Answers

Art Bell probably has had the most discussions --- check his site at artbell.com

They are weird, apparently something going on, but never have heard a definitive analysis --- theory only.

-- Jon Jonson (narnia4@usa.net), May 17, 1999.

Some people develop resp. problems after these disipate.

-- Johnny (jljtm@bellsouth.net), May 17, 1999.

Generally, their existance is denied. I see contrails all the time (especially in the winter). Air traffic is increasing every day. I think it would be necessary to show that the contrails could not result from "normal" airline traffic.

Mind you, I don't trust Big Bother (ommision of 'r' intentional), just trying to find the facts.

-- Anonymous99 (Anonymous99@Anonymous99.xxx), May 17, 1999.

I have watched the formation of regular diamond-shaped contrail patterns by normal civilian airliner traffic.

All it takes is two air traffic lanes, running (say) North-South and East-West, crossing near-overhead, with wind from (say) the South- West. Given busy lanes, there's a continuous stream of airliners at the minimum spacing (5 miles?). One plane comes along, makes a trail, the wind drifts it sideways a bit, the next comes along, makes a parallel track, the wind drifts it, and so on. Ditto for the crossing lane below or above. Result: a square or diamond grid pattern.

It's possibly a recent phenomenon arising from precision navigation (GPS) and airlanes congested to the limit, prior to which the pattern would have been rather more random.

For an alternative view listen to the conspiracy theorists. One flaw in their arguments is that anything dispersed as a spray in the atmosphere five miles or more up will not land on what's vertically below, and quite probably not even on the same continent. I was in the USA when Yellowstone park and environs had the fires, and you could see and smell the smoke in Minneappolis, about 1000 miles away. That was fine particles being dispersed near ground level. When Krakatoa blew, the volcanic dust got everywhere in the Northern hemisphere and stayed up there in noticeable amounts for a couple of years.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), May 17, 1999.

WebRNot

If you're particularly turned on by NWO and black-helicopter-type conspiracy theories, then you can find about a trillion websites dealing with the issue. Try starting at . .

http://www.cbjd.net/orbit/graphics/chemaircraft.html

(where theres a very nice high level scan of a Virgin Atlantic 747- 400 throwing bog-standard vapor from its 4 engines, which is then discussed in endless pages as "the mysterious chem-trail plane" LOL).

Youll probably sooner or later end up at one of the story's originator's sites where youll be encouraged to buy a patented "Chemtrail protection vitamin supplement pack - Only $29.99 + $2.50 shipping for 1 months supply". Or a video, or a book, or some consultancy service.

If, however youre just looking for some facts about con-trails . . go to . .

http://harvest-trust.org/contrails.htm

(MY FREE TIP. A nice hot cup of tea is good protection against most Internet related scares. No sugar. Send no cash. Buy no snake oil)

Youre welcome.

W

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), May 17, 1999.

I should also add that my noticing these contrails was definitely the "red pickup truck effect" in operation. Had I not seen the conspiracy theories I woud not have noticed the pattern, still less have spent time watching it develop.

-- Nigel Arnot (nra@maxwell.ph.kcl.ac.uk), May 17, 1999.

Hey W, Internet scares should be the least of your concerns. Here in west Michigan, a couple of months ago, my wife and I saw some cloud patterns that were definitely man made. It was after dark and the moon was like a spotlight lighting these trails up. They were running east and west. There were a dozen or so, side by side, equally spaced, uniform in length,starting over the lake and ending over our heads, and spreading. We called friends to find someone who could get pictures( drat! didn't turn out). What I want to say to the sceptics is that once you see something so obviously "put" there, it will become a known for you too. It is what it is. Ask everyone you know to watch the sky. One of them will spot these things. The people at www.islandnet.com/~wilco have already got a line on someone who had this stuff tested. It fell in weblike gobs. It contains a banned pesticide called ethylene dibromide, among other things(tested at Aqua-tech Environmental of Marion, Ohio, Sept.,97). Also try www.sightings.com Are you a real GI, or just a Sears GI? MJ

-- MJ (got@discerning.mind), May 17, 1999.

See the previous thread on this topic.

They aren't five miles up. They aren't diamonds, it's a grid. It expands into full cloud cover. Then people get sick, about the same number of people as might during, say, a mass innoculation.

Look at the contrail threads on "Sightings.com" - better than Bell.

Tens of thousands have witnessed this by now, in every major city in the US and many elsewhere. Read before you believe the self-appointed protectors and guides who would remedy your childish crudulity. Don't be shamed out of seeking the truth.

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 17, 1999.

Can remember this happening as far back as the early 70's. It just is not a new phenomena. (I will admit that it does look weird - though the story back then was that it was done by aliens.)

And you should note that jet engines burn HOT - most anything sent into one with the fuel would be reduced to its elemental makeup and burnt with oxygen in a hurry. There was even a proposal some years ago to use one at a govt. incinerator facility to destroy dioxin - did not go through BTW.

-- Paul Davis (davisp1953@yahoo.com), May 17, 1999.

http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/contrails.html

A Nasa project on contrails

-- fyi (fyi@nasa.project), May 17, 1999.

The ethylene dibromide is not going thru the engines,Paul, its coming from somewhere else on the planes and in some cases is coating buildings, cars and people. And the people are getting sick. I don't care how long it's been happening, I want it stopped. Sounds like Willy's excuse for not stopping the chinese weapon thefts,"Hey, it started under Bush." Research it. Cut the "spin" attempts. Thanks MJ

-- MJ (got@discerning.mind), May 17, 1999.

Paul is clearly "spinning" here, because he participated in the earlier post. I repeat:

Many (but by no means all) of these planes have been identified as being NSA due to their orange tail markings. They also have saftey-orange engines, which would indicate an "experimental" engine of some kind. In the blurry photos I've seen, they look somewhat oversized, which might indicate an integral spraying mechanism in the housing. The "nothing biological added to fuel could suvive burning" is what debaters call a "straw man" argument: a false claim that you build up, then attribute to your opponent before you knock it down. It's also a key disinformation strategy: you can feed an implausible answer into the cacophany of voices trying to explain a given phenomenon, then, in criticizing the existence of the phenomenon itself, you characterize the entire effort at explaination in terms of the implausible answer. Which you "planted" in the first place.

Many activities and otherwise dangerous facts "out in plain sight" are effectively concealed by this subtle form of ridicule.

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 17, 1999.

If you really believe this stuff and you have proof, then get off the freakin' Internet with it and go get a lawyer and file a class-action lawsuit or cease-and-desist order. Or go talk to the media. Or go talk to your congressman.

Otherwise, shut the hell up.

-- you're an idiot (!@#$%@*&^%$#!.!@#$%^&*), May 14, 1999.

-- repeating from another thread (try@lawyer.orthemedia), May 17, 1999.

Many people have tried to get the media interested in this story, but, as waves of sickness hit communities, the media is right there with a pre-prepared cover story. Not only will they not cover the contrail spraying, they won't cover the fact that thousands of people are up in arms about it, which is a story in itself. "Get off the internet?" this IS the media, buddy. Get used to it. Here is some independent media for you on the subject of contrail spraying:

http://www.heavensake.com/GROUNDZERO/~scrc/skye.htm

http://strangehaze.freeservers.com/index.html

http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/contrails.html

There is are also some interesting views on this phenomenon, from the apparently hysterical to the chillingly plausible, on the "sightings.com" radio show archives:

http://www.broadcast.com/shows/endoftheline/99archives.stm

Particularly interesting is a recent interview with former Joint Chiefs of Staff member Al Cuppert. It provides some possible context for this contrail spraying, and, if you stick with it, it explains some of the things that happen to people who go to the (official government) media, or who try to draw attention to this sort of thing with legal action. Interesting discussion about Sonny Bono, for all you Sonny and Cher fans.

(just use your editing tool to "copy" these addresses and "paste" in your browser window - don't forget to bookmark)

If anyone has any doubt that the media is completely controlled, look at what you're not hearing about our attack on Serbia (check the ISSA URL for confirmation). Read this carefully and contrast it with the coverage you see on the tv news. It really is worth a little of your time:

(begin quote)

The International Strategic Studies Association is out of Alexandria, Virginia. The non-governmental organization for senior national security officials from 165 countries issued a news release May 4 that has been ignored by the mainstream American media.

According to ISSA (http://www.strategicstudies.org/issa.htm), NATO and US forces have "suffered significant loss of life" among ground troops.

ISSA's monthly journal "Strategic Policy" reports that as of April 20, "as many as 50 NATO ground troops - officially not acknowledged even to be in the conflict." It also reports NATO may have lost as many as 38 fixed-wing aircraft and six helicopters.

The recently released POWs may not have been the only prisoners. ISSA reports an African-American air force major is being held after his F-15 Eagle fighter was shot down. "At least one German pilot (some sources say two men, implying perhaps a Luftwaffe crew from a Tornado) has been captured," the report also says.

ISSA adds it has information a female US pilot has been killed.

In addition, ISSA reports 12 American and eight British special forces were killed in an ambush south of Pristina within days of the start of the bombing campaign. "At least 30 bodies of US servicemen have been processed through Athens, after being transported from the combat zone," according to the report.

"At least two of the helicopters downed by the Yugoslavs were carrying troops, and in these two a total of 50 men were believed to have been killed, most of them (but not all) of US origin."

ISSA organized a fact-finding mission to Yugoslavia on April 18 - 21. On the team was Congressman Jim Saxton (R-NJ), a life member of the organization and Chairman of the House Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare.

The team determined as many as one-third of the refugees out of Kosovo "appear, in fact, to be fleeing further into Serbia," to avoid the KLA. These refugees of various ethnicities are joining the nearly one million refugees displaced since 1992 from Bosnian and Croatian Serb areas and Croatians and Muslims from what is now Bosnia-Herzegovina and Croatia.

Team members report seeing extensive destruction by NATO of civilian targets, which has resulted in the loss of income for

nearly 20 percent of the entire Yugoslavian population. NATO says relatives of President Slobodan Milosevic owned some civilian targets. The ISSA team learned, however, that "the vast majority of these factories were either State-owned, privately owned by non-Milosevic family members or, for the greater part, owned jointly by the State and by the workforces of the various factories. As a result, this has directly contributed to an attack on the average Yugoslav family."

"Insight Magazine" (www.insightmag.com) reports in its upcoming issue that as many as 15,000 US troops will be killed in a ground war. That figure came from a CIA report to the House Armed Services Committee on the eve of last month's NATO summit. The CIA estimate is based on a 10-percent casualty rate.

The Washington Times, on May 4, reported that KLA troops are training with terrorists. According to the report, some members of the KLA, which is financing the war through the sale of heroin, were trained in camps run by Osama bin Laden who is wanted for the 1998 bombing of two US embassies that resulted in the deaths of 224 persons, including 12 Americans.

Last year, State Department officials called the KLA a terrorist organization and charged it was using terrorist tactics against Serbian and ethnic Albanian citizens, according to the paper. And France's Geopolitical Observatory of Drugs said the KLA helped transport $2 billion in drugs a year into Western Europe.

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 17, 1999.

"Get off the internet"?!

"Shut the hell up"?!

What is going on with someone who reacts so strongly to information like this? They've taken the trouble to lash out. That must mean they're afraid (as well they might be, IMHO) and are threatened by what they might find out - the familiar ostrich syndrome. Or else they have some other motive for wanting to squelch open discussion...

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 17, 1999.

I've been an amateur astronomer and weather watcher for almost thirty years, and I can assure you that the contrails that are being discussed in connection with the 'chemtrail' issues are NOT the same type as are created by high-flying ((25,000 ft.+) jet traffic. I started seeing these unusual trails in the NY metro area last fall. These so-called 'chemtrails' that I have personally witnessed are made by relatively low-flying aircraft, at an altiude I estimated to be approximately 15,000 feet - very low for any jet aircraft, as jet engines are less efficient at such low altitudes. These aircraft were not on transcon flights, as I witnessed one particular jet track back and forth across the sky for well over two hours. I kept it in sight with binoculars as it went into the distance, saw it turn 180 degrees, and start to lay down another trail next to the previous one it had laid. This went on, as I say, for over two hours, until the aircraft had laid a gridwork over the entire sky visible from my location. At the same time that this was occuring, I observed commercial air traffic at cruising altitude well above the plane laying the trails. These aircraft left NO trails of any kind, as a front had just gone through the night before and the air mass contained very low levels of humidity from ground level to the stratosphere. This low humidity was confirmed by NOAA data I obtained for that date.

This observation occured in mid-January of this year (1999). A few day afterwards, my wife, mother and father (along with a sizeable percentage of the NY metro area) came down with severe flu-like symptoms that required bed rest for at least two weeks, and a prolonged period of convalescence for many weeks thereafter. I lost two weeks of work by having to take care of them, as they ran extremely high recurrent fevers and were totally incapacitated. Visiting their doctors, I learned that there was an epidemic of a flu-like (NOT influenza, however) respiratory illness in full swing in the area, and that hospitals were so full that patients were being cared for out in the halls and maintenance areas. A virus or bacterium was never isolated, to my knowledge. I took massive doses (up to 20 grams/day) of vitamin C with bioflavonoids during this period, which had fended off illness previously. I believe it kept me from getting too sick, but I felt awful all throughout February and March, as if I were suffering from a mild, prolonged case of whatever this illness was.

In my mind, the two events - the unusual contrail-making aircraft observation and the following mysterious epidemic - will forever be linked. Judging from observations around the country, other people have made similar links. Please understand that until this past March, well after this incident, I had never heard of these 'chemtrails' and so was not prejudiced in any manner.

I hope the truth emerges on these occurences, and soon.

-- J.T. (none@this.time), May 17, 1999.

Hey, Dano, could it be that CONTRAILS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH Y2K? Huh!? Are you that paranoid that you think that someone is lashing out because there might be some truth to your foolishness? HAHAHAHAhahaha Muuuuwwwaaahahah (always thought that sounded better than that stupid BWAhaha--who the hell starts an evil laugh with a B?) Your URLs are hilarious. I never knew there were so many clueless idiots until I started hearing about this stuff.

And I'm a doomer too!

-- OFF TOPIC (get@life.dano), May 17, 1999.

Dano

I guess you were too busy actually to go and read the site that I linked above. Ill be extra helpful and paste the pertinent part to you re the Ethyline Dibromide scare. (Emphasis is mine)

[snip]

Origin of the Controversy

The earliest record of discussion relative to contrails is an email message to an Internet discussion group, which reads in part: http://web.raex.com/~kittkatt/news.htm#ident

------------------------------------

From: Richard Finke Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 1997 4:18 PM To: BIOWAR-L@mail.sonic.net Subject: [BIOWAR] LINES IN THE SKIES IDENTIFIED

GENOCIDE ON A WHOLESALE LOT LINES IN THE SKY ARE IDENTIFIED!! SAMPLES Are ANALYZED!!!

The lab director of Aquatech Environmental (a.k.a. AquaTel), Marion, OH, ph., (707) 8872228, using samples taken from JP8 contaminated fields of Maryland and Pennsylvania, reported today (9/18/97) that ethylene dibromide, otherwise known as EDB, has been the contaminate in the fuel and water samples taken of submitted by farmers, pilots and tanker drivers. EDB is one of the most tightly controlled EPA substances and was banned in 1983 due to its carcinogenieity. EDB is a pesticide that apparently is being placed in the jet fuel and dispersed on a daily, almost nonstop basis in our skies. The lines filling our skies are not contrails. The lines are dispersed and may linger for hours, slowly filtering down to unsuspecting pests, and I guess we're the PESTS.

---------------------------------------------------------end This message is not an analysis, and no analysis is available from Richard Finke, http://greenapple.com/~ricfinke/ who has admitted that both the lab name and telephone number are false. This false report has been widely circulated by email and still appears on several websites which apparently did not verify its information.

On 1/25/99, talk radio host Art Bell interviewed William Thomas http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/index.html who has written two articles for Lycos Environment News Service http://ens.lycos.com/ that describe his hypothesis that contrails contain either a poisonous substance, a bacterial or viral agent, or a substance being used for weather modification. Most of the people interviewed in his article did not know that the Finke report was false, and Thomas admitted on Art Bells http://harvest-trust.org/artbsbell.htm program that no analysis of any material or medical condition is known to exist.

On 1/30/99 Thomas issued an alert which said:

Something huge is going on. In many regions, I can confirm that hospital emergency rooms are filled to overflowing with a sudden epidemic of acute respiratory patients suffering from something doctors cannot diagnose- and that is NOT the flu.....  What is definitely known and verifiable is that thousands, quite possibly tens of thousands of Americans - and perhaps more - are becoming ill enough to seek medical attention after these fly-overs, which are continuing at a stepped-up pace as I write.

........ This is a national emergency.

--------------------------------------------------end

On 2/10/99 William Thomas issued another alert which read:

To: John Hammell From: William Thomas Subject: TAKE COVER IMMEDIATELY

John,

Tell everyone to STAY INDOORS when contrails are being woven overhead. I've got a BBC photo of a freezer semi filled with dead bodies in England all from sudden respiratory ailments. We're talking (according to the BBC) 6,000 deaths from respiratory failure in two weeks.

People are VERY SICK here. And spraying continues after heavy spraying last Friday over Asheville, Knoxville, Dallas and other US centers. I have this morning received reports of "many deaths" from a "cough that never leaves" in Louisiana.

This is big. This is real. I have positively verified that Emergency Rooms are overflowing with acute respiratory cases from coast to coast.

Doctors are telling the New York Times that this is NOT the flu. People are dying they say far more quickly and at rates far beyond "flu".

The only lab test I have shows JP8 present in soil samples after spraying. The ethylene dibromide in JP8 is banned by the EPA as a known carcinogen and an extremely toxic substance that attacks the respiratory system at very low doses of exposure...................

This is a MAXIMUM RED ALERT for everyone on your list, John. TAKE COVER! Stay indoors during spraying. This is NOT "woowoo". This is NOT a drill. Check my website for updates: http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/index.html Good luck to all of us,

William Thomas

-------------------------------------------------end

The months of January and February are typically the peak of cold and flu season. http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/flu/weekly.htm By publication time for this article, it will be apparent if indeed a national emergency has taken place.

Possible Motives

Richard Finke, who distributed the false EDB analysis, edited and condensed the book by Larry Wayne Harris entitled, Bacteriological Warfare: A Major Threat to North America. In 1998, Harris pled guilty to wire fraud for fraudulently obtaining vials of bubonic plague. Finke also wrote an article entitled Update On Anthrax "Cures', Exposure, Vaccine Effectivity, http://www.sightings.com/health/antvacccures.htm by Ric Finke, LWH Consulting, which he describes as a defensive biowar and disaster recovery consulting firm. In starting the EDB spray rumor, Finke may have been seeking to drum up business for LWH Consulting.

William Thomas sells the USANA brand of vitamin and mineral supplements for sale on his website. Thomas writes:

You don't have to be a Gulf War veteran to be suffering daily effects from Chemical Warfare (CW) exposure. As a frequent writer on environment and health, while researching a major article on chemical sensitivities ,I learned that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity can be triggered by massive repeated low level exposure to oil and other chemical releases. Once you've become "sensitized" to certain chemical or petroleum products such as benzene, chances are you will also be sensitive to things like pesticides, perfumes or the formaldehyde found in abundance in almost every office and home. Anyone committed to recovering, protecting and improving their health should read on.

Thomas goes on to describe how through use his products:

Two years later, I am virtually immune to the flu's and viruses that constantly lay many of my friends low. http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/vitamin.htm

A link at Thomas website advertises information on how to order medicines from overseas without a prescription:

MEDICINES WITHOUT PRESCRIPTION http://www.islandnet.com/~wilco/usana.htm links to: http://members.tripod.com/survivalmeds/survivalmeds.html Faced with criticism of his hypothesis, Thomas recently has had to rally his flagging followers by saying, Until the lab results are in, lack of "proof" should not obscure an overwhelming preponderance of pattern and precedent.

Other websites that offer products which "claims" can protect against contrails are: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/4809/just-do- it.html

One contrail website says: "I am sure the drug companies are selling a lot of drugs, could they be behind this??? ". The same site then goes on to say: "Stock up on vitamins LEF 800841LIFE tell them you were referred by IAHF. http://azwest.net/USER/SLIM/

[end snip]

Youre welcome.

-- W0lv3r1n3 (W0lv3r1n3@yahoo.com), May 18, 1999.

OFFTOPIC's reaction is typical. He would rather spend an hour on a mindless, substanceless attack than one minute on research.

Thank you, Wolverine. I certainly don't vouch for the accuracy of every bit of information on all of those sites. This is why you have a mind of your own. The fuel-additive explaination story is called "disinformation," and it's standard operating procedure for any covert op with a significant risk of discovery. I do not doubt that this is not the only discreditable explaination being floated for what's going on. They will be peeled back like layers of an onion, with people like you ready to ridicule them loudly as each "hoax" is exposed. As I said in my previous post:

>It's also a key disinformation strategy: you can feed an implausible answer into the cacophany of voices trying to explain a given phenomenon, then, in criticizing the existence of the phenomenon itself, you characterize the entire effort at explaination in terms of the implausible answer. Which you "planted" in the first place.

The trouble is, with an operation this massive, you have too many people who have seen it. They've seen planes flying back and forth at low altitude, spraying trails that quickly expand into full cloud cover, in what was previously a cloudless sky. Then people get sick.

You have your disinformational agents (usually ugly, vocal criminal types, chosen and cultivated to inspire an aversion reaction in the public mind) scurrying about, crying wolf and profiteering, commiting various frauds and associating targeted groups with fraud. Many will turn away in disgust. But that's not working with this operation.

You can debunk a planted story over and over again. But the people don't stop getting sick. They don't stop believing their eyes.

The U.S. Government has a long history of experimenting on it's own population. Anyone remember the "DOE Gives Orphans Radioactive Lemonade" articles some years back? That was Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary who made those revelations about massive secret cold war experimentation, not some wide-eyed paranoid x-files fan.

And if they don't want people talking about it, maybe - as a last resort - they should stop spraying poisonous crap on us in broad daylight for awhile!

Dano

-- Dano (bookem@blacksand.srf), May 18, 1999.