Which supplier still has open-pollinated seeds for sale

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In the beginning of December 1998, we ordered seeds from Seeds Blum in Boise, ID. We have received nothing yet. Seeds Blum does not answer email or faxes, and their voicemail box is always full. Are they still in business?

-- sprout (n@seed.com), May 27, 1999

Answers

I have never had a problem ordering from willhiteseed.com . They were a little slow this year, but I ordered late. Everything that I ordered came and I have had execellent germination rates. This reminds me I need to place an order...

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 27, 1999.

sprout:

Yes, willhiteseed.com is dependable but slow. I have a credit which I better use soon while supplies last.

Don't place all your seed orders in one supplier. Alternate sources for seeds (and everything else) will become absolutely necessary when the grasshoppers panic.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), May 27, 1999.


You might try either Seeds of Change at: http://st4.yahoo.com/seedsofchange check out the Y2K list of seed -or-the Ark Institute at: http://www.arkinstitute.com There is a toll-free number for the Institute: 1-800-255-1912

-- Greg Lawrence (greg@speakeasy.org), May 27, 1999.

A lot of the varieties commonly available everywhere, particularly the beets, turnips, greens, cucumbers, acorn squashes, carrots, parsnips, rutabegas, and even several peppers and tomatoes were common when I began my career in horticulture in 1973. These are very old hybrids which are quite reliable about producing true to type seed. Wheat and rye also come true. Corn and soybeans are a problem, but there is no reason whatsoever not to buy a great portion of your seed supply from Walmart's $.10/pac collection. You will save money and concern. If you want to email me about specific varieties, I may well know them.

-- Sand Mueller (smueller@azalea.net), May 27, 1999.

Check local farm supply stores. Just ask them which of their bulk seeds are hybrid and which are not. Prices were unbelievably cheaper than the Web. I came home with a large grocery sack half full of bulk seeds for about $50.00.

Much field corn is non hybrid.

I've finally gotten my order from Seeds Blum. It did take a while.

-- Jon Williamson (pssomerville@sprintmail.com), May 27, 1999.



Thanks, Sand.

These are very old hybrids which are quite reliable about producing true to type seed. Wheat and rye also come true. Corn and soybeans are a problem, but there is no reason whatsoever not to buy a great portion of your seed supply from Walmart's $.10/pac collection. You will save money and concern.

This is what I paid at Walmart for my garden seeds and (though Hybrid) some are already seeding. They're ALSO growing like weeds!

Did anyone ever stop to ask, "If hybrid plants don't seed, where do they get the seeds for the new hybrids?"

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 27, 1999.


Sprout,

you might try these folks -

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

we received excellent service from them earlier in the spring - delivery within one week...I don't know what their backlog looks like now, but it's worth taking a look at, anyway.

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), May 27, 1999.


I ordered/and recieved my seeds from Willhite early this year. They are selling the most seed for the least $$ that I could find. I divided the seeds into two groups, one to plant, and one I stored in nitrogen.

All HYBRID seeds have to be labeled HYBRID or F-1. All others are open pollinated. Heirloom seeds are those varieties that have been around a long time. Some groups of plants, like beans and tomatoes are naturally self fertilizing. Others, like corn and sunflowers are wind pollinated. Some, like broccolli, requrie help from adjacent plants. And some, like spinach and squash, have a male and female element, in separate flowers.

If I had to get seed today, NOW, I would go to a local source...walmart sounds good. And I would plant as many different types varieties as possible. And then I would take the best of whatever grew well in my soil and mini climate, and I would take seed from that, for next year. I would use Susan Ashford's book "Seed to Seed" or some other, to help me

Hope this helps.

-- Mary (CAgdma@homenoaddress.com), May 28, 1999.


Anita: "If hybrid plants don't seed, where do they get the seeds for the new hybrids?"

(Assuming you're not joking --)

Most hybrid plants do set viable seed. The difference is that the next generation, grown from those seeds, won't necessarily reproduce their parent plants exactly. Recessive traits not expressed in the first generation are likely to appear. Some of these may be undesirable. Mendelian genetics at work.

On the other hand, plants grown from so called "heirloom" (a.k.a. "open-pollinated") seeds do reproduce their parents, i.e., they breed true. This is thought to be an advantage should current commercial sources of hybrid seed experience problems in production or distribution.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.


BAKER CREEK HEIRLOOM SEED CO. -- Missouri; catalog free.

Heirloom Garden Seeds. Maine; on-line catalog; order by mail. (Some nice applets...!)

Bo untiful Gardens. California; downloadable catalogs; order by mail.

D.V. Burrell Seed Growers. Free catalog.

Henry Field's Seed & Nursery. Iowa

Garden City Seeds. Montana. Specialize in short-season varieties. Information on seed saving and planting tips.

Good Seed. Washington State; "Open Pollinated, Heirloom & Homestead Seeds especially adapted for Northern Gardens"

Gurney's. South Dakota.

Harris Seeds. New York.

J.M. Hartman & Daughters Seed Company. Indianapolis. "This web site is about antique and heirloom vegetable seeds for the historic or home gardener." The web page describes a book that sounds useful: Heirloom Vegetable Gardening: A Master Gardener's Guide to Planting, Seed Saving, and Cultural History. It's $20.00 in paperback at Amazon.

New Pioneer Hardware. Ohio. All seeds carried are open-pollinated.

Redwoood City Seed Co. "all open-pollinated, old-fashioned varieties for the home garden. " California. Only source for some varieties.

Salt Spring Seeds. British Columbia. "Salt Spring Seeds promotes the cultivation of grains, beans, vegetables and herbs that contribute to self-reliance and self-sufficiency. We aim to lessen dependence on store-bought, imported and out-of-season produce, and on synthetic or exotic medicines."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), May 28, 1999.



It's obvious Anita never had a college level course in genetics.

-- Steve King (parse@earthlink.nospam.net), May 28, 1999.

Mary: I may be wrong, but I have the impression that packing seeds in nitrogen would damage them. I think that I got this understanding from reading the Pleasant Hill Grain info at www.pleasanthillgrain.com. They recommend packing the seeds in diatomaceous earth.

-- mostly lurking (mostly lurking@podunk.texas), May 28, 1999.

Steve:

I actually began my University studies in biology and chemistry. I've probably studied more genetics than you.

If you don't want hybrids, by all means don't buy them. They work for me, are more resistant to diseases and pests and if they don't produce seeds EXACTLY like their parents, I don't much care. It's kindof like having a mutt versus a pedigreed dog (in my mind.) The mutt tends to live longer, have a wider spectrum of disease resistance, etc., where the purebred is much like those folks who have family trees that don't fork.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 28, 1999.


Anita- so what do you do say 10 generations down the road when your hybrid broccoli resembles more of a weed than broccoli. Don't say run to Walmart and buy some more. People buying heirloom seeds buy them so they have true offspring generation after generation. Its another form of preperation for survival.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 28, 1999.

I've dealt with the two companies linked below. Both provided fast service & have the best prices, IMHO.

Heirloom Seed Co.

Pinetre Gardens

Best Wishes,

-- Bingo1 (howe9@pop.shentel.net), May 28, 1999.



Anita- yes, it's true that you can grow plants from your hybrid plants seed, but they will resemble the parents types- not the F-1 hybrid. They may or may not be a desirable plant. If you had nothing else, yes, use them- you should get something. But otherwise, the way to go is open-pollinated. Re: corn and soybeans- same thing applies. You can replant the offspring seed of the hybrid- will get reduced yields but some yield.

You can, given space and time, attempt to get the hybrid offspring to "breed true" by growing out a number of plants from the hybrids offspring, saving desirable ones produced and doing it again. In this way, you can eventually get a stable line from your hybrid- but it will be different than the original parent hybrid.

Yes- hybrids are often easier to grow, more disease resistant, etc- but we are fully at the mercy of the seed companies when we buy them. I use both in my farm operation- and I am attempting to use more and more OP seed each year and save them. Also- as you do this, saving the best or earliest seed, you tailor that variety to your climate and soil. Which is important to remember- if you're new to seed saving- DON'T just harvest the last stuff left on the plant and save that seed. Either mark off a portion of a row, for instance peas or beans, at the start of the season and save all the seed from those plants, or else select a nice looking plant, ie: tomatoe, and save seed from nicelooking tomatoes on it that have the desired characteristics. For instance, I'm growing a number of OP tomatoes and melons this year with a marginal growing season requirement for our area- I'll be looking to save fruit from the earliest ones that look and taste good in an attempt to shorten the maturity period.

Anita- who DID take plant genetics in school.....

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 28, 1999.


I'm taking a "hybrid" approach. Stocking up on enough hybrid seed for the first year or so for their superior disease resistance and other qualities. Also storing some non-hybrid in case problems persist. Most seeds will retain respectable germination rates if stored properly, so I don't see the rush to start off with non-hybrids if there is a hybrid I would normally prefer to use. I mostly grow tomatoes, and my garden is not large enough to rotate the way I would prefer, so disease resistance is a big plus to me. I would especially recommend that new gardeners consider at least some hybrids; there is enough that can go wrong during the growing season. At any rate, it's something to consider if you are having trouble locating non-hybrids.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), May 28, 1999.

This response is for Johnny:

Your responses to my posts CONTINUE to tickle me, Johnny. PLEASE keep them coming. I enjoy the respite.

"Anita- so what do you do say 10 generations down the road when your hybrid broccoli resembles more of a weed than broccoli."

If I thought that the seeds might outlive ME, Johnny, I wouldn't have purchased them. I KNOW why people are thinking non-hybrid seeds. I simply don't see problems lasting as long as they do. I'm a programmer, Johnny...NOT a farmer. Farmers have FAR more at stake in this one. For my personal garden (grown strictly because I enjoy the rewards and the fresh vegetables provided), I'll go with whatever I choose. As much as you suggested I not say it, "Yeah...next Spring I'll go to Walmart for more seed. I sure can't beat the price at $.10/package, and I enjoy eating the stuff straight off the vine." If life demonstrates that I can't do that, I won't. In the meantime, however, Wal-Mart moved into Fiscal Year 2000 in January of 1999 and I don't see them failing. If the manufacturers of these cheap seeds fail, I'll have to pay a bit more. Then again, I noticed at Wal-Mart yesterday that they had TONS of produce on sale that looked just as fresh as my stuff, so I suppose I could also BUY food.

It's all in how you see the world turning, Johnny. If you think we'll be in chaos for 10 years, by all means go with hybrid seeds or whatever else you deem necessary.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 28, 1999.


Johnny:

Change that hybrid to nonhybrid in my last paragraph, please.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 28, 1999.


Anita 10 PLANT GENERATIONS

You'll never be called Mrs. Burpee

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), May 28, 1999.


True story, Johnny.

I won't be called Martha Stuart either.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 28, 1999.


Anita Spooner- Wal Mart DOES NOT grow their own seed. It doesn't matter one hoot whether or not Walmart is compliant as far as getting seed next year is concerned. Much of the seed used in this country comes from overseas. That's potentially a major problem. Getting the seed to the seed companies may be a major logistics problem. Also- getting the seed to the consumers may be one as well.

I don't have anything major against hybrids- I use both. But there is a place for OP seed- and people who want to learn how to save seed need to learn now.

Anita- who is a farmer and not a programmer...

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 28, 1999.


anita (at hillside farms:

You said: "Anita Spooner- Wal Mart DOES NOT grow their own seed. It doesn't matter one hoot whether or not Walmart is compliant as far as getting seed next year is concerned. Much of the seed used in this country comes from overseas. That's potentially a major problem. Getting the seed to the seed companies may be a major logistics problem. Also- getting the seed to the consumers may be one as well."

I'm quite aware that Walmart doesn't produce seeds. My point in discussing this with Johnny was to indicate that I was *not* a farmer, so have no particular stake in ensuring that I have a fruitful harvest next year. You *are* a farmer, so the stakes are higher for you.

My sole interest in producing a garden this year revolved around the fact that we moved into a new house last summer. It seems that a construction worker spit out a watermelon seed in the backyard and we had a wonderful watermelon for dessert at Thanksgiving. I then thought, "What might grow here if I actually PLANTED something?" I'm not Mrs. Burpee, and I'm not Martha Stuart. I simply enjoy the veggies that come fresh from the vine (not to mention that they are more desirable to look at than the weeds that grew there before.)

You also wrote:

"But there is a place for OP seed- and people who want to learn how to save seed need to learn now."

I don't dispute this either, Anita. [Kindof makes us feel like we're talking to ourselves, doesn't it?] Have you checked out the problems that Roland has been having with his beans? He chose to plant the non-hybrid type and has lost almost his entire crop to insects. If your entire crop goes due to disease, and you've spent a considerable sum on seeds, fertilizer, pesticides, etc., are you ahead? Do you have ANY seeds for next year?

I'll defer to your expertise in this area, Anita. *You're* the farmer. I'm certainly not. My only point in responding to the thread was to indicate that hybrid seeds DO seed. I'll now limit my responses to computer issues of which I have more qualifications.

Anita

-- Anita Spooner (spoonera@msn.com), May 28, 1999.


Hey everyone: let up on anita spooner - clearly she must be unemployed with quite a bit of extra time on her hands. The experience with gardening is so valuable for her and others new at that work. Every experienced gardner will hopefully be available to help others in this area if the times demand such.

-- jeanne (jeanne@hurry.now), May 28, 1999.

To All Gardeners:

If you can't plant now, then keep your seeds for subsequent years. Maintain a temperature at 50 degrees Fahrenheit if possible. When the seed supplies dry up completely, then every stored seed will become very valuable. Don't let poor storage ruin your expectations. Right now there is a time of plenty, but it will not last.

-- dinosaur (dinosaur@williams-net.com), May 28, 1999.


argh- no- the success of my crops are not important to me JUST because I run a farm. It is important because I also like to eat.And if you were to be dependent on what you could grow- it would also be important to you.

The problem with the beans was NOT due to their being non-hybrid. MOST green beans are OP in fact. Most likely it was a soil fertility problem- healthy soils yield healthy plants, which are less succeptible to attack by insects and disease.

-- anita (hillsidefarm@drbs.com), May 29, 1999.


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