After reading Ed's "goodbye", I had to revisit for myself if I should continue ringing the Y2K alarm bells: warning friends and family, staying active in encouraging my neighbors and community to prepare, starting threads on this Forum for the newbies in particular, alerting the press and local government, and generally being a Y2K pain in the butt to most people who just don't want to hear it anymore. Also, at what cost to my own preparation efforts is this being done is a question that needs to be answered at the same time. Preparation never ends, so at what point is the tradeoff "worth it"?

First, let me say that I am personally indebted to Ed since he was a key person in my "getting it", that I respect his decision, and his reasons. In answering the first question, that of should I continue, the answer for me is yes. I feel sometimes like a train without brakes. Momentum is hard to stop. I also feel compelled to ring the alarm, as I have done continually for over a year now. I have had some victories, and many defeats, as far as success in having people get it. Those victories still encourage me though, and I still look forward to more.

Perhaps it is not a matter of want, it is a matter of need; of feeling compelled to for reasons I may never fully understand. I feel that my Y2K alarm ringing work is not done yet: for family, friends, neighbors, community, and the rest. I am under no illusion that it ever will be done. What I think keeps me at it is knowing with certainty that I have already made a difference, and that I can continue to, in the lives of people who are important to me as well as others that I do not even know very well.

Now for the second question: What is this costing in the context of personal preparations? I have had the basics covered for a while now, and continue to chip away at the rest. So I do not think that whatever time I am spending doing things like starting this thread outweigh what I could be doing to accelerate personal preparations. Most of us are limited to a preparation pace dictated by how much we can afford to spend at any given time, and the point to some degree may be moot. It still is a tradeoff though, as are so many other things in life. I do not see the two as mutually exclusive, but rather both as good uses for my time. For me, both preparing and ringing the Y2K alarm bells continue to be "worth it".

Not many opinions that I hold are cast in concrete, and I think it is a healthy process to periodically question the opinions that we each hold. This post is an attempt to try and clarify my own thoughts, and I welcome comments from those of you who have also asked yourself these kinds of questions. Finally, I believe that there is no blanket right or wrong answer for everybody - only individual, personal decisions. Ed has made his. I have made mine. Have you made your choice?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 02, 1999

Answers

I have ceased "ringing the alarm bell" per se. I continue to gather information and make corrections to my mindset daily. I have a group of GI friends that I coorespond (sp?) to all the time and we talk of contingencies and what we have learned this week. But no, I no longer try to "convert" DGI's. My family is mostly GI, and the majority of my friends are also. My neighbors think I have gone off the deep end, although a few are making minimal preparations. They know that I will be very "redneck" if TSHTF, so I hope for minimal visitation from them, post 010100.

Not counting the additional "artillery" and ammunition, I have spent a little over $2000. I was surprisingly prepared for a lot of things. My major purchases involved water storage, and more kerosene for the heater that normally heats my garage in the winter months. My wife has always been one to store away a considerable amount of food, just in case, so we simply stepped that up a notch. All the little things; first aid, vitamins, batteries, etc... add up quickly.

The only preps left that I am even considering is potassium iodide for the slim chance my neck of the woods is "blessed" with a nuclear explosion, and possibly some biological warfare first aid supplies. I have not managed to get the wife to buy-off on those yet...; )

I pray to God everyday that the preps won't be needed, but in the back of my mind the uncertainty gnaws at my psyche. At first, when I learned of Y2K initially, I was in a panic... I no longer panic. I am merely waiting now, calmly waiting... almost too calm.

I practice with my weaponry weekly. My boys, ages 14 and 16, when they aren't off with their friends practice too. They think the old man is a little off, but they are getting better. I was worried at first that they would take advantage of the situation and handle the guns with supervision, but they have been amazingly responsible, and give the armaments the respect they deserve. They were also amazed at how well I can shoot, but then I have been a "gunhead" for many years, just not an avid practicer since they were born. I sincerely hope that the weapons will be used on four-legged prey only, and then only for the dinner table.

I will NEVER be unprepared again. Everything I purchased will be used, nothing is frivolous, or unnecessary, even if 010100 is a flop. (IMHO I seriously doubt though)

Our lives are about to change... we just don't know to what degree. My family is prepared for whatever is handed to us. Are you?

snoozin' by the couch,

The Dog

-- Dog (cmpennell@juno.com), June 02, 1999.

Dog -- you mean 2000-01-01, don't you? :-)

-- A (A@AisA.com), June 02, 1999.

Dog- Is potassium iodide sold over the counter? Thanks

-- Gia (Laureltree7@hotmail.com), June 02, 1999.

Sorry this canine isn't Y2K compliant, just Y2K ready... (SPINNNNN!!)

The only place I have found potassium iodide is at a small pharmacy in ABQ (30+ miles away) It wasn't cheap either.... Like I said, I am still debating the issue, so I don't know much... (like I do any other time... ;\ )

lickin' my paw,

The Dog

-- Dog (cmpennell@juno.com), June 02, 1999.

ANBEX Inc. is selling iosat (brand) tablets 14 in a pack.

The delivery was fast and reliable.

They can be found at www.anbex.com

I ordered over the web, had delivery in a little over a week.

Hope that helps.

-- Rickjohn (rickjohn1@yahoo.com), June 02, 1999.

Dog: Looks like you stared something here - thanks for the post. It never ceases to amaze me where a thread wanders!

All: Why so little interest - Perhaps this has already been discussed to death? - if so, my apologies. In a probably futile attempt to get back to the original question, are you still ringing the Y2K alarm bells or not?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 02, 1999.

Rob, I received so little feedback, when I started talking about Y2K, that I discontinued it a long time ago. All of my family is aware of the problem. Those that can...are preparing. Those that can't (financially)...will be visiting those that can on 1/1/00. I never talk about this subject with neighbors or co-workers. My co-workers are computer people and should know the score. My neighbors are rednecks and will probably be as prepared as I am. However, because of where I live, I also expect to have to defend myself if TSHTF. I seriously hope that this is only a bump in the road...but it's better to be prepared.

-- DJ (reality@check.com), June 02, 1999.

I raise no alarms, I ring no bells, I take no action in my community. I live in a small town (under 10,000) in an upper middle-class neighborhood. The neighbors have already called the authorities twice because of my preps; once to find out where I was storing all the "gasoline" for my generator (LOL; it's ng/propane), and once when the 500-gallon propane auxilliary tank was installed. I am now OFFICIALLY the "neighborhood nut".

But, like I told the reporter (no address allowed), "If bad things happen, whose door will these people be knocking on FIRST? After feeding them, and putting them up for the night, I'll politely but firmly direct them to the nearest shelter."

And ultimately, that's what it boils down to, doesn't it? Those who prepared and get laughed at, and those that don't. IF bad things DO happen, they sure as HELL won't be laughing anymore....

So fine. I quietly continue with my preparations, and the "grasshoppers" keep singin' the days away. I wish them well....

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 02, 1999.

Most people that I know are aware of Y2K. My housemates are both GIs, we're neck-deep in Y2K at work, and most of my friends are tech folks, and have their own opinion. My parents, 2500 miles away, are "taken care of." So, from a personal view, I don't know how much more I can sound! It comes up once in a while in conversation, but not that often, except at work! I'm sure I'll coutinue to spout off here for at least a while, but with the nice weather, and things to do, I probably won't be as active. <:)=

I hope the regulars forgive me for reposting part of Victor Porlier's last article on Westergaard, but it does have new meaning, now that Mr. Yourdon has made his announcement: <:)=

"The relatively small number of families and local communities actually making contingency preparations is unlikely to increase dramatically over the remaining seven months, unless the mainstream media does a lot less sensationalized investigative reporting, e.g. the 60 Minutes Y2K segment aired this past Sunday, May 23. The nation needs more of this kind of programming in the mainstream broadcast media. There has been way too little coverage of this ilk in proportion to the problem.

The Internet will continue to be central to Y2K reporting and debate, but the general American public and the smaller businesses and governments are not motivated to act by sources on the Internet. They respond to the mainstream media's priority concerns and known personalities. A Peter Jennings or a Dan Rather sound bite is more persuasive than the more developed arguments of Internet commentators, such as Yardeni or Yourdon. Hopefully, more mainstream media pundits will follow the 60 Minutes' lead with even greater depth and breadth in the coming months."

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 02, 1999.

DJ: I mostly received polite interest early on, then after that there was more genuine interest from a few but just indifference from the majority. With all, I gave it my best shot and then just moved on, wiping the dust from my feet. My hope remains that I planted a seed that will grow later for those that didnt listen originally. There are others too - they would call me much later to tell me that now they are preparing like I told them to before. So it isnt totally futile by any means. As far as our neighbors, some are preparing and others are not. There is no substitute for prudent preparation, regardless of if Y2K results in a relatively mild impact, which I doubt, or a more severe one.

Dennis: I think there are many people who feel the way you do about ringing the bells. I have also seen many posts saying not to warn anybody, or even let others know about Y2K at all - that doing so is foolish since it can backfire on you and put you in danger. Perhaps this opinion will prove to be correct. Nobody knows. I choose to ring the bells. Laughter is going to be at a premium regardless of which side of the fence we are on.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 02, 1999.

Sysman: The general public would rather be entertained than have to think, especially about something as out of the box and unpleasant as Y2K. We have government by poll and mass perception by sound bite. There are no Y2K leaders except us. The press is interested only in selling their papers, magazines, and the networks in ratings. Money. Follow the money. As Jim Lord astutely observed, there is no Y2K lobby group. It is up to the alarm ringers at the local level. We are the leaders, by default, though we may have never led before.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 02, 1999.

My family are mostly GIs...and I suspect that many of the rest may "visit Dad in Hawaii for the Holidays..." But there is a great deal still to do...I keep thinking of projects that I should do in the next seven months, such as building a fishing skiff or rebuilding a sailboat for fishing (or both!). There are terraces to be built and planted. There are plants to start, chicken coops to be finished, etc. And there is still money to spend... In short, there is not a whole lot of time or energy to spend on convincing others of the problem. Some, in our church, are beginning to prepare. Those I will guide, as best as I can. Others continue to skip on, oblivious.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 02, 1999.

We attempted to sound the alarm. I've never been met with more "duh- type" looks and irrelevent questions in my life. The Mayor asked, "What's that?" another city councilman announced that it was all hype. The next councilman (banker) told the crowd that his bank has been compliant for along time now. They refused to let my husband stock pile gas (public works director) because of the money it would cost to buy the barrels. We moved. When TSHTF, the whole darn town would have been on OUR front porch with pitch forks. No drinky, no flushy, poo-poo pouring out of thier pottys. Power or phones go,(seperately or together) so does your water. Family members questioned my sanity, people have given us dirty looks in Sam's Club. I converted my parents, they GI but don't want to. My daughter and I had it figured out in a matter of hours, after reading the Newsweek article in a doctor's office. We badgered each other back and forth with "what if", "and THEN", "how would", all the way home and into the evening....I hit the Net, found North's site and it only became more and more evident with further investigation of approx. 3 hours per day, that it was the only logical conclusion. We don't like it, but we can't change it. (and neither can "they")I've had an open mind to the possibility that at least some of it could be salvaged, in some areas, in time. And the clock says: *JUNE 1999*. Look newbies....it is my family's belief that they cannot simply fix "some of it", and expect business as usual. We are a world bank, a world market, a world food chain and if some have thier way, we'll be a world government (or next to it). One big happy family, except for the ones who want us dead! BTW, I happen to be a happy, optimistic person who LOVES to laugh.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 02, 1999.

The husband and I got it in July 1998, almost a year ago. It is amazing what we have done in a year. And still chugging along on preps. It surprises me how much I realize I still have not done. Where is my sprouting book from Lehman's I ordered weeks ago? We own an 18" 12 gauge that has never been fired. (fortunately we have been practicing quite a bit with the .380) Do we have enough food? Time to inventory again....and the bug out bags!!! WHY haven't I finished the bug out bags???? (one for me, one for the hubby, in case we get separated, and both with things for our daughter.)

As far as sounding the alarm goes, I have talked about this with every single family member and friend. NONE are GI's. I am sooooo discouraged by this. I stopped talking a few months ago. They got tired of hearing me talk about it, hell, *I* got tired of hearing me talk about it. I keep thinking about the situations my family will be in should TSHTF and I get depressed. But the hubby and I press on in our preps. What else can we do? For several weeks there, we didn't think about or talk about Y2K even to each other. The prep work stopped altogether. Now we are back on track. It was as if we needed a break from it.

-- Preparing (preparing@home.com), June 02, 1999.

Bottom line:

Never try to teach a pig to sing.

It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 02, 1999.

I knew when I started this thread that my views would probably be in the minority, but I didn't think that I would be alone. Fouteen or fifteen posts and nobody is ringing the bell, or the bell has stopped ringing when it previously was.

We cannot rely on government to do this, they are more interested in "perception management" and avoiding a panic. We can not rely on the mainstream media either, not until Y2K gets ratings and sells papers. We can only rely on ourselves to sound the Y2K alarm. And IF these few posts are at all representative of those few who get it and could lead, many more alarm bells have been silenced than I previously thought, if they were ever ringing at all.

Can you draw any conclusions from this speculation? Isn't pretty, is it?

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 02, 1999.

I have told all of my family and in-laws.... some of my family GI, some try hard not to. My in-laws think I am even crazier than befor. My mother-in-law worries over the smallest of things... "Did you put enough wallpaper paist on the paper? WHAT IF IT FALLS DOWN!!!!" She can not handle anything any bigger than worring about what to cook for supper. I am so consurned for thier side of the family (they live 5 hours away).

My pastor pointed me in the right direction when he GI, now he seems to have fallen asleep. I love him and his family dearly.... but they are preparing for a 3 month winter storm.... Thats fine, but I dont hear him telling anyone else in the church to prepare. Maybe because most of our church is fairly poor. But even poor people can change the way they spend what little money they have. Poor people now, will be a WHOLE LOT poorer next year.

I do not tell anyone at the local grocer... At walyworld, if anyone asks why I have 2 carts full of cleaning supplies, I fib and say I buy for an orfinage.

People from our church have "kiddingly" said... If it gets bad we will know where to go. I know NOW they are kidding because they dont think anything is really going to happen. But when/if things do get really bad, in the back of thier mind they will be saying... I know who has extra ________! I love our people but it really makes me mad to see them keep on going.... not stocking up at all. They take vaccations (we are skipping our vaccation this year), some are getting new cars (I drive an old van), they remodle thier kitchen.......it goes on and on. You know its not like they will even be able to barter anything for what they need. Because I will have everything that is nessary and they will have nothing but junk. So much of the stuff we hold as valuable today will seem like pure junk then.

I'm sorry I have been venting on you guys. I feel sad, I feel tired, I feel sorry for all of the helpless kids. They trust thier parents to take care of them and all the adults do is feed thier own desires of pleasure and comfort.

Bulldog

-- bulldog (sniffin@around.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob, I'm afraid you have to count me as an ex-bell ringer. Our city council has been asked several times by others what our status is and have given happy face answers. They are not interested in Y2K. Those I work with, I have discussed and brought info - as far as I know, they are doing nothing. At church, I mentioned it once to the senior priest and got a "you're not serious" look. My friends and family know I'm preparing, most of them aren't. Moreover, Dear Mr. Ayles thinks I'm far too worried, it will be a non-problem. To his credit, he has built shelving for my food and doesn't complain about the lamps, oil, etc that won't be used much if we keep our power. Fortunately, my sister GI and is doing what she can to prep. I've never had a lot of community involvement, and wouldn't know where to start if I wanted to. I do make a point of telling acquaintances that I think it is wise to have emergency preparations done; that even if Y2K is a non-event, winter storms do happen and look what happened in Quebec...

-- Tricia the Canuck (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

And the beat goes on... and on.. an <:)=

-- Sysman (y2kboard@yahoo.com), June 03, 1999.

All: Thank you for this enlightenment, as sad as it is. I posted this thread to help clarify my own thoughts and see what choices others have made.

To say I have been surprised at the change since last this was brought up would be an understatement. I never would have guessed that the GI alarm bells have been so silenced. Basically this means there are much fewer raising the alarm and as a result that many less will prepare and take Y2K seriously. Sysman is right. The beat goes on, but the GIs have not gone on in the context of ringing alarms.

We are in some serious trouble.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob

just got back after a few days off and just found your post. we're continuing our preps, but with little result.

a few of us have organized a county group. we started in jan 99 trying to raise awareness locally. we meet weekly, and we've been using flyers and brochures to advertise. guess what? we've had absolutely zero new attendees!! we're all baffled at the lack of interest. we don't get in anyone's face over it, but the notice is out there to see.

-- Cowardly Lion (cl0001@hotmail.com), June 03, 1999.

Fortunately, my whole family (father, wife, brother) is in the GI class. Amazingly, I only personally have been able to convert maybe one or two people as best I know despite a real missionary streak. The bell ringing isn't working.

-- Dave (aaa@aaa.com), June 03, 1999.

Rob, I really DO understand where you're coming from, my man. However, in your list of "what we can't depend upon", you unfortunately failed to say that we can no longer depend upon the masses. It pains me to say so, but alot of admirable and well meaning people on this forum are barking up the wrong tree with thier "hopes and prayers" of saving the majority. Period. I was actually able to eliminate my daily doses of Tagamet once I finally let go of that "hope". All for one and one for all = whoever you are sharing your supply of water with!

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), June 03, 1999.

Will Continue ... and all: I think where the rubber hits the road on this thread for folks like Rob (Rob, pls correct me) is that is throws into high relief the dangers of remaining in urban and suburban areas (heck, even many medium-traffic rural areas) around rollover and beyond if Y2K goes south.

Not to mention if people go south.

Reason: because it indicates how woefully (woefully) apathetic and unprepared the citizenry is/will be. Way beyond even the little that was hoped for on this forum as recently as three or four months ago.

-- BigDog (BigDog@duffer.com), June 03, 1999.

I changed my methods of informing people about Y2K a long time ago. Since I wanted to try to get through to some people I started printing info from the web and mailing it to family members, neighbors, my homeowners association, and city officials. It seems to be working. Family members have called and ask what I think. I've heard neighbors talking about the letters they've received and have had some ask me if I received such a letter. My homeowners association published some info in our newsletter.

The only people I openly discuss Y2K with are GIs. I do offer preparation suggestion to family members when they ask.

-- John (southeastern@deja.com), June 03, 1999.

Aloha Rob, Bells still ringing loud and clear on Kauai!I get real tired of the rude remarks, but will continue to carry the torch for Ed. Some days I take a break, or prep fervently, but, count us still in with you Rob.The Electric co. passed out another flyer with Mays bill. Count them in.Our Pastor had a sermon on it, count him in! (2Sundays ago) May the force be with you.(My newest angle is telling peoples kids. A couple have managed to convince at least one of their parents!)I have to admit the days I take a break, I don't need the antacids! Aloha, love, Justin

-- Justincase (jjsd@aloha.net), June 03, 1999.

Aloha and Mahalo Justin! We alarm bell ringers need all the encouragement we can get. Hadn't really thought of the keiki angle. Smart. Kokua is after all kokua!

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 03, 1999.

Hey Tricia! This is from a paper near you!! :-)

Thursday, June 3, 1999

Just in case you need it

City mails out emergency guides

By DOUG BEAZLEY, EDMONTON SUN

When the next twister hits Edmonton, city hall doesn't want you to be the only one trapped in the basement without a box of crackers and a candle handy.

Starting yesterday, the city is distributing more than 272,000 brochures to every mailbox in town, detailing personal preparedness plans for every kind of civic emergency: floods, tornadoes, blackouts or the dreaded millennium bug.

"The idea for the pamphlet was generated by the preparations the city has been making for Y2K," said Jim Penrod, general manager of the emergency response department.

"We decided it would be useful also for people to get a good idea of the things they should do to get ready for any kind of emergency, not just Y2K."

The Y2K bug is, of course, the glitch in old computer date codes that experts say could spark systems meltdowns in everything from power grids and jet planes to elevators and traffic lights on New Year's Day 2000.

A city task force has been working since 1997 on culling the bug from city systems. City officials say they're still on schedule to finish the work by the end of the year.

The pamphlet warns that in the event of a citywide emergency, municipal crews could be scrambling to get essential services back up and running.

"It is expected that individuals and families will be able to look after their own needs for a minimum of three days," says the pamphlet.

That means stocking up.

The pamphlet's recommended "emergency supply kit" list includes everything from water drums and waterproof matches to a first-aid kit, "stress relief" snacks, a can opener, and extra sets of keys for your car and home.

It also means working out with family members escape routes from every room in the house.

The cost of producing and distributing the pamphlet was not available yesterday.

http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-06-03-0024.html

-- Gayla Dunbar (privacy@please.com), June 03, 1999.

RE: where the rubber hits the road. Disclaimer: I'm really beat you guys. I scanned this thread & realizing the carrying capacity of the land in which I live & the population already here & the current agricultural practices ...YIPES...Help me, Runway Cat!

-- flora (***@__._), June 04, 1999.

Until about 4 - 6 weeks ago I had been dutifully emailing the best of the Y2K articles to relatives and friends to try to get them alarmed enough to act. Had been doing so for months and months with little response. Then for a short while I was too busy to do that because I was preparing an oral report for an edible landscaping class I was taking. Subject - what else? - Y2K and the food supply. For research I did even more digging and reading than the usual 2 hours a day, and what I found really scared me (a surprise to me since I have been concerned about this for over 2 years). Oddly being more scared didn't make me redouble my efforts to awaken my sleeping loved ones - it made me give up. I decided I had done my job by trying to give them early warning. If all the articles previously sent didn't cause them to take action or start seeking info on their own, then why spend my time on it. In fact, I reasoned/rationalized I might be delaying their taking responsibility for their preparations by feeding them information. Its been over a month and I have not received one email asking what happened to all the Y2K news. Sigh. Another factor was that I was feeling like a nag about Y2K prep. Kind of like having a loved one hacking away because of years of smoking - at some point you realize it is futile to tell them they should quit smoking. They know that, they aren't going to do it, and you are just damaging the relationship if you keep nagging. I have relatives and friends in major cities, and I worry that Y2K may be a terminal illness. But they have been told... and told.. and told... Now its time for me to let go and just love them. And spend the time getting myself and my immediate family those in my immediate area as ready as possible.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), June 04, 1999.

Linda: You have done all you could, and are right to drop it. If it is meant to be, some will get it later, and will most likely call you or get in touch. There is a difference between giving up and giving it a rest. May I suggest that giving it a rest is appropriate until they come back, which means you have not given up all hope. If they never get it, they are the ones who gave up to their own denial, not you. Good Luck and consider ringing other bells.

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@net.com), June 04, 1999.