Is Pyro good for full tonal range negs? and for these films...?

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Hi all. I just read here that Pyro works great for high contrast negs, but I would like to try it for pictoral/portrait/people/fashion (you get the idea). I use the following films (in 35mm): Tech Pan (@ ISO25); APX 100 (@ISO80-400); APX 400 (@ ISO320-1600) and Delta 3200 (@ISO1000-3200). Would you reccomend NOT using it for any of these films, keeping in mind that I want fully-detailed mids, as little blown out highlights as possible, and I really don't give a poop about the deepest shadow detals? I really appreciate any help, and if I get the OK here I'll get Hutchings book from 8Elm, and some liquid from them too...Thanks. Shawn

-- shawn gibson (shawn.gibson@utoronto.ca), June 21, 1999

Answers

Never heard anything about the use of Pyro for "high contrast negs." But I use it for everything, primarily "pictorial, portrait, people." Not with the films you mention however; my favorites are Delta 100 & 400. The most tonally detailed developer I've ever come across, especially in the highlights, which have great separation and which are almost impossible to block. Shadow detail--which I love--is basically a function of exposure, not development; I usually rate my film lower than suggested on the box. See http://www.ravenvision.com/rvapeterearthscapes.htm for pictorial; http://www.ravenvision.com/rvafaceofaids.htm for portraits; http://www.ravenvision.com/rvapeterwinterspring99.htm for miscellaneous: everything but the female nude is Pyro. That said, I will also say that I have done superb work with HC-110 and Rodinal as well. Just a matter of learning a different technique. If I put 10 prints on the table and asked you to tell me which negs were developed in HC-110, which in Rodinal and which in Pyro, there's no way you could do it.

-- Peter Hughes (leonine@redshift.com), June 21, 1999.

The answer to your question is in Peter Hughes response--it is almost impossible to block up the high values, so pyro is an excellent developer for high-contrast negatives. My times for PMK are on my site at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Times_PMK/times_pmk.htm. I have to rate most films lower than normal for development in PMK.

-- Ed Buffaloe (edbuffaloe@earthlink.net), June 21, 1999.

I'm finding PMK especially helpful for scenes with a wide contrast range, i.e. long tonal scale, because of the highlight preserving effects. I have some prints that I'm very pleased with with film done in D76 and others done with PMK. It would be a very interesting comparison to shoot two rolls of the same subjects at the same time, etc, and develop one in PMK and one in D76 (or whatever) and see how they do. I might try this some time.

Not yet having done this A/B comparison it is my impression that PMK does do what is advertised: excellent retention of detail in the highlight areas. Not every photo that I shoot takes advantage of this trait, so many shots look ordinary. But if you shoot something where the highlights really show, like the surface of water, you can get very pleasing results with PMK. I also find I'm not needing to burn highlights to get them to print. I like the stuff.

Get the liquid form, it's safer to handle, and wear rubber gloves, then you have no toxicity worries.

I like Delta 100 @ 80 and Fuji Neopan 400 @ 200. I develop the Delta 100 for 6min 20sec at 70F. The Neopan for 7min even, temp of 70F. These produce good negs for my condenser enlarger, gives Zone VIII density of about 1.25, near as I can measure it.

I've never tried Delta 400 but that is my next project.

Don

-- Don Karon (karon@ibm.net), June 25, 1999.


First, we must not confuse 'contrast' with 'subject brightness range. Subject Brightness Range (SBR) refers to the range of tones (or Zones) in the scene BEFORE the exposure is made. Contrast refers to the slope of the HD curve. We can compensate for wide SBR scenes by using the Zone System. (See AA's The Negative.) And we can control the slope of the HD curve by changing the devlopment. With PMK, the highlight areas are still luminous because half (or so) of the density is made up of stain and therefore is not opaque like 100% silver. Thus it can be 'printed through' to gain texture in the highlights, particularly with VC papers. Unfortunately, the Agfa films you are using are not suitable for PMK developer because they produce very little, if any, stain from the pyro. I suggest you use Ilford films (exclusively) and PMK. Divide the rated film speed by 2 (no matter what developer you use.) As for 'giving a poop about shadow detail,' when you look at a scene in nature, you see EVERYTHING. A really fine print requires good shadow detail. Get Gordon's book and a PMK kit. It will change your life.

-- Michael D Fraser (mdfraser@earthlink.net), August 06, 1999.

I'm probably buying the PMK book Friday, and I have been studying the Adams trilogy like bible. I still stand on my lack of need for great low-Zone detail; I photograph people, usually for fibre 11x14 'semi'-fine-art prints for my portfolio, which I hope soon will get me a job. I've also switched to Delta 100 and TMY (still love TP and Delta 3200). As for detail, if I have detail from about Zone III 1/2, I'm happy. If I lose b/t Zones IX-X, but have incredible separation b/t these two extremes (i.e., in the IV-VIII realm), I consider myself as having a perfect negative...I think I get what you are saying about contrast and luminance, too. The luminance of a scene may be 5 Zones or 15, but the contrast of a scene can be high with 2 stops (a true black and white image) or any other 'scene luminance' number. Thanks for the info.

-- shawn gibson (shawn.gibson@utoronto.ca), August 06, 1999.


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