THIS JUST IN (from my "hometown" newspaper, published this afternoon)

"Radar problem causes serious flight delays at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport"

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RACHEL E. STASSEN-BERGER STAFF WRITER

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A radar equipment problem at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport caused serious flight delays Federal Aviation Administration officials said this afternoon. The problem rendered inoperable half of the radarscopes handling planes from 5 to 40 miles out from the airport.

The trouble has forced Northwest Airlines to cancel about one fourth of its flights today, the airline said.

About 100 flights had been canceled as of 4:15 p.m., spokeswoman Marta Laughlin said. Northwest and its commuter affiliate Mesaba operate about 400 daily flights in and out of the Twin Cities.

The trouble in the Twin Cities was causing trouble for Northwest elsewhere. Laughlin said the airline was delaying flights in other cities scheduled to depart for the Twin Cities by an average of 30 minutes. Some delays were as long as 90 minutes.

The airline said it was preparing for more cancellations this evening, though it was unclear how many flights would be affected.

Half the local air traffic controllers radarscopes stopped receiving basic information from the flight tower, such as flight numbers and air speeds, just before eight this morning and have only worked for about ninety minutes since then.

Since half of the radar is still working normally, the airport has been able to handle about 30 planes per hour, compared to it's usual 60 planes, said Tony Molinaro, spokesman for the FAA's Great Lakes Region, which includes Minnesota.

``There are radar issues all the time. That's why you have procedures to slow down the operations, '' he said.

The delays passengers have experienced are similar to those in a severe weather situation, said a Minneapolis-St. Paul airport official.

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Yup. "Similar to a severe weather situation...", sorta like that "3 day storm?"

The LINK.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 22, 1999

Answers

When I was in the Field we called it MININOPLACE.

-- && (&&@&&.&), June 22, 1999.

JUST CONFIRMED by my local 10 o'clock news: Radar problems were result of "upgrading" the Minneapolis Airport rader system....

Just keeps gettin' better, doesn't it?

A few more incidents like this, and the public will bolt, sure as hell...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 22, 1999.

But at least when they do bolt and start running around bumping into each other they won't harm themselves.

Those cheese hats keep them bouncing off each other.

-- Greybear (greybear@home.com), June 22, 1999.

Don't say that to a Minnesotan. Those hats are Green Bay Packer hats (Wisconsin "cheese heads"), which are worn by the ARCH enemies of REAL Minnesota Vikings fans...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 22, 1999.

ROFLMAO!!!

vikings, vikings...seems to me I've heard of them - farm team, aren't they?

Arlin

-- Arlin H. Adams (ahadams@ix.netcom.com), June 22, 1999.

Hey Dennis, dont know much about football but I do live in Wisconsin (go ahead and laugh, do you have a cow near when TSHTF?) within a quick shot of Minnesota and Michigans Upper Peninsula. I like the idea of living in this area because of the political climate of the three states. Do I need any Vikings fans codes to get past your checkpoints if things get bad here?

-- BiGG (supersite@acronet.net), June 22, 1999.

Could it come to pass that all the "Y2K fixes" will cause so much damage that they bring our society to its knees? Without waiting for Y2K itself to hit?

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), June 23, 1999.

Hey BiGG!

I live in Wis also. Email me (the addy is real) & I'll tell you where...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 23, 1999.

It is well known in the Federal government that the FAA is second only to the IRS in having the worst systems. The idea that they will fix their Y2K problems in time is laughable.

-- Mr. Adequate (mr@adequate.com), June 23, 1999.

Hey BiGG,

Any chance of Upper Michigan becoming the 51st state next year? Beautiful country up there with very clean drinkable water.

-- y2k dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), June 23, 1999.

LOL at the mouth-breathing Doomer fart-catchers. Flight delays=TEOTWAWKI - go figure...

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), June 23, 1999.

Flight delays = TEOTWAWKI?

*HARDLY* It's just a SYMPTOM of a wider problem. I notice that you've changed tactics somewhat in your attacks. *IF* things get bad later in the year, I wonder what new tactic you'll employ to maintain your veneer of competency....?

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 23, 1999.

Twit. You Doomers have been "promising" that things will get worse for the last 18 months. They have not. As far as desperation is concerned - this laughable attempt at drawing solace out of an isolated flight delay situation is pathetic.

"On January 1, 1999 they will experience many more, and it will be much more difficult to sweep them under the rug. On April 1, 1999 we will all watch anxiously as the governments of Japan and Canada, as well as the state of New York, begin their 1999-2000 fiscal year; at that moment, the speculation about Y2K will end, and we will have tangible evidence of whether governmental computer systems work or not."-- Ed Yourdon

-- Y2K Pro (2@641.com), June 23, 1999.

When you say Wiiiiiiiiiisconsin, you've said it all. Can you say Wisconsin Badgers---Rose Bowl Champs? By the way, who are the Vikings????

-- GeeGee (GeeGee@madtown.com), June 23, 1999.

CNN said that the radar screens were being moved from one room to another and implied that was the case of the failure.

-- Linda A. (adahi@muhlon.com), June 23, 1999.

Wisconsin - Your among friends.....

Now go home.....

-- carlie (carlie_scott@yahoo.com), June 23, 1999.

I *LIVE* here, and don't get the news "second hand".

Quote from this morning's St. Paul Pioneer Press: "A possible software glitch in the equipment that feeds data from the radar made half of the radarscopes used by air traffic controllers inoperable."

then, a few paragraphs later:

"Officials had recently begun moving some radar-related equipment from one room to another, and some SPECULATED (emphasis mine) that the move might have caused the glitch."

Also, LAST NIGHT, on MY LOCAL NEWS (Minneapolis, remember?) TWO SEPERATE stations said OUTRIGHT that "the airport had just switched over to the "upgraded" TRACON system when the screens went down."

Pretty cut & dried, if you ask me.... News from afar is rarely as accurate as news from the scene.

Denial... More than a river...

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 23, 1999.

Hmmm- I wouldn't read too much into that radar problem Dennis, but I definitely gotch yer "cut and dried" right here...

MINNESOTA VIKINGS - 1999 WORLD CHAMPIONS!

-- CD (not@here.com), June 23, 1999.

CD........

It's more than presumptuous to say "World champions". Assuming the best and they win the superbowl, they would be the United States champions, no more.

Truth is, most of the world do not play American rules football. To claim status as world champion, it would be necessary for many other countries to play the sport, have a world championship cup and then win that. Examples of sports that have real world champions include soccer and rugby. Also, winning the 100M at the Olympic games would make one a 'World champion'.

Get the picture......

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), June 23, 1999.

Q: Why doesn't Iowa have a professional football team...?

A: Because then Minnesota would want one....

;^)

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 23, 1999.

As long as Favre is healthy, the Pack will smash the Vikes...

Any link to confirm the upgraded system caused the outage?

-- regular (zzz@z.z), June 23, 1999.

No, not yet. The confirmation was on the 10 o'clock news, on two separate stations. The newspapaer story isn't as clear.

-- Dennis (djolson@pressenter.com), June 23, 1999.

There seems to be two (unrelated) problems here - one, are there states north of the Ohio river? If so, what are they? Do they still have (real) professional football teams up there in the Central Div.? Also, what order are these states in, and does it matter if they get out of order? (I think IL, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota - but Canada, Maine and North Dakota have to be up there someplace too.) 8<)

____ ____ ______

Second, on the FAA - the single quotes (made locally) are probably accurate; also any early (uneditted by national FAA officials) comments made by Northwest, most comments made by Northwest "off the record" or from unofficial representatives.

I am very skeptical of "delayed" or written (lawyered) responses from Northwest, and do not trust (without other verification) statements from the FAA. CNN, in this case, seems to be repeating the comments from the local press. Too many of CNN's other "sound bites" have proved inaccurate too many times in the past to be reliable on Y2K issues.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 23, 1999.

I'm really not surprised by this foulup. You can hardly even park at this airport; if the MPLS airport management can't handle parking, what makes anyone think they have a chance with anything as complicated as aircraft traffic control? www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), June 23, 1999.

Craig wrote: "It's more than presumptuous to say "World champions". Assuming the best and they win the superbowl, they would be the United States champions, no more".

C'mon Craig, Let's think about this a second. Let's begin by looking at last year's world cup [soccer] champions "Team France". Do you honestly believe that even their best player, [midfielder -Zinedine Zidane] could come close to stopping a bullrush from the likes of "Big Dog" John Randle? Why France's quarterback would be roadkill before the end of the first quarter! And just who do you suppose France would assign to cover Randy Moss? Maybe Marcel Desailly? No contest! Marcel would be burnt toast quicker than you can say "TD"! And just who do you think has the legs to keep pace with Robert Smith once he cuts off-tackle and turns on his world class speed? Finally, who do you think can put more zip on the ball when throwing a quick slant over the middle; Randal Cunningham or Franck Leboeuf? I will grant you that France does have a stronger kicking game however. My prediction Craig...

Minnesota Vikings 73 - "World Champion" France 6

Or did I miss your point?

-- CD (not @here.com), June 23, 1999.

CD - you're assuming they're playing the same football game with the same football using the same football rule book. 8<)

Even playing field here - Australian rules football, with a soccer ball, using US NFL rules, on an indoor football field.

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 24, 1999.

LOL Robert! I think you've hit on the perfect combination. I would definitely pay big money to see THAT! I don't mean to open another can 'o worms here but, dare we call it... "THE UNIVERSE BOWL"?

Now then, as to your previous questions regarding the geography of the Northern states: The proper order is- Minnesota, North Dakota, Michigan, Illinois and then Wisconsin. This is subject to change however (ie. in the event the Packers relocated to a southern state). Hope this helped.

-- CD (not@here.com), June 24, 1999.

But was that East to West order, alphabetic in order of height, or North to South?

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 24, 1999.

I'm not sure why, but these "state-order-lists" are almost always based on which day of the week each state entered the union. (I know, I know...Wisconsin entered on a Monday... but like I said, Wisc. is home to the Packers and subject to change.) And speaking of "alphabetical in order of height", here's a bar-bet you may find interesting... Which state (excluding Alaska) includes in it's boundaries the furthest northern point in the United States? [Answer: Minnesota. Most people say Maine.]

Some quick questions for you Robert(being that you've been posting to this forum longer than me)... I am surprised that nobody has yet interjected with the claim that our discussion is off-topic and we are wasting bandwidth here. (Obviously we are NOT wasting bandwith!)What can I conclude from this "silence"? Are they being polite? Are they truly intrigued by our words of wisdom? Have they gotten to the point of totally ignoring this thread and are "unaware"? Are they from one of those southern states? Is there something much "deeper" in their silence that I just don't realize? Is it raining there in Kennesaw? Answers! I must have answers!

-- CD (not@here.com), June 24, 1999.

The answer lies deeper than they can imagine - perhaps weight deeper....

Yes, yes - 'tis raining in this fair land of pine weeds. 78 (farenheated degrees as last looked), and remaining cloudy. Though the Braves are struggling through the showers downtown. T'will not be here to enjoy the morrow however, on the road to pick up kiddo's from band campl in Bloomington IL on Saturday, hence after returning Sunday.

Back to the important questions: do you realize that MN (Michigan or Minnesota - whichever abbreviation is to whichever - too many M* states to keep them straight - both have isolated pennisula's? Those guys in Penasse can't drive anywhere (civilized at least) without running into Canadainians.....

-- Robert A. Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), June 24, 1999.

Well if they'da stayed in line they wouldn'ta been isolated. Serves 'em right I say.

Regardless- I may be headin' your way for the first game of the NFL season. (The first and only stop on the Vikings "revenge" tour.) If you have any connections to those sweet coporate sponsored stadium seats, please let me know.

Hope you have a safe trip to Illinoise. (I have no doubt you'll have fun. Afterall, it IS the Land 'o Lincoln.)

Best, CD

-- CD (not@here.com), June 24, 1999.