At the y2k show in Tampa a couple of weeks ago, my wife spoke with a gentleman who was beginning to market a new design deep well water pump. After speaking last night with him and reviewing the information I will be ordering one for permanent installation in my well.

It fits along side the existing submersible deepwell pump and does not share any piping. If your electric pump needs to be replaced, it doesn't appear to be a major problem to disassemble the hand pump. Pump is supposed to deliver 5 to 7 gallons per minute at a draw of 100 feet. The owner of the manufacturing company said he had heard of the pump working at 4-6 gallons per minute at a draw of 150 feet but that he could not personally guarantee this since the pump had not been thoroughly tested at that depth.

Cost for the permanent pump is 450.00, for the temporary pump is 350.00. You are ordering direct from the factory and he is looking for a 'few good men' to market in various sectors of the country. Seems like a nice enough guy.

This pump is on Walton's website but not in the printed catalog. Manufactured and distributed by Smith Distributing Co in Idaho. 208-684-3886.

I'll keep you posted on how it works when it gets here. My well water table is down at 80 feet so it should be a good indicator.

-- Lobo (, June 30, 1999


Lobo-- Thanks for the info. I am almost finished with a design that will deliver similar volumes for emergency power outage situations. It is not fancy but one could build the pump for very little. The idea stems from work I have done in the past. It blends my view of mother natures capillary action (used by trees and plants to draw liquids hundreds of feet), past experience with pipeline work and a dose of imagination, topped with common sense and frugality (brokeness).

Like the pump you mentioned, it will utilize the space between the line from submersible pump and the casing wall. So it can be used without pulling the existing pump, then removed after the power comes back on. I will post it after my first *wet run* :). Please keep us updated on the one you are purchasing. Sounds like co-generation of asimilar cerebral mind farts. Excuse me I just couldn't help myself. But if it works, lives may be saved, and this is a GOOD THING!


-- Michael (, June 30, 1999.

Mike, keep me posted and I'll do the same. You can use the email add and I'll eventually get the message or you can use:

Good luck

-- Lobo (, July 01, 1999.

My well is at 134 feet. I bought a "stalwart" brand hand pump. It fits right beside my regular electric pump. Had it installed by one of our local pump installers. It is mostly pvc, but it works fine. Won't be able to irrigate with it, but can draw household water.

The basic "unit" is a comparable price, but the lengths of pipe are additional and sold by the 5 ft length.

One warning - when they put it in, the new pump and the old pump drew mud for a while. Had to run the bathtub for two hours to clear the lines. Be sure you have water stored for coffee, etc. before you install it.

-- marsh (, July 01, 1999.

Would both of you guys put me on the copy list for this subject. I am intensly interested. email to

I have similar problems with y'all and my water is at 80' to 100'

I'll be calling Smith tomorrow to get his literature.


-- Got Barrels?

-- Greybear (, July 01, 1999.

Sure sounds good, Lobo, but one question, do you have to pull out the submersible to drop the other one down at the same time? (so as not to snag the wires, etc?) The only reason I ask is that I dont have a gin pole or crane and I'm too lazy to build a derrick, and pulling out 150 feet of 1" pipe with a pump hanging off it is a major pain when you do it hand over hand. 2 more questions, can you fit all this stuff in a 5 1/2 well casing? If you can, do you think you could run a wind mill instead of the hand pump in the same hole?

-- Roger (, July 01, 1999.

Sure thing Grey Bear.

If you know of anyone on a tight budget and needs a pump for wells with water at 30' or less, refer them to (the homepage), for a look see at my pump design for *shallow wells.* It will not work, as I grudingly accepted yesterday, if the depth of the top of the water is over 28'-30' because of atmospheric pressure and vacuum limits. I already knew what popular concensus was, but I just had to do some rigorous research, to see if there was anything out of the norm that might work. There wasn't, so now there is. *8^`}` (almost)

PS. I have to keep unacknowledging my sons handle on the homepage. Kids will be kids.

-- Michael (, July 01, 1999.

Michael - the website address I gave has a schematic of the rig that might be of assistance.

-- marsh (, July 01, 1999.

Two basic kinds of pump; a suction pump (limit about 25') and a push type pump. The suction pump uses vacuum to draw water up (the pump is above the water. A 'pusher' type pump is located down in the water and pushes the water up the pipe. The later type is typically a 'cylinder pump' which has a pipe on top going up to a draw off spigot through this pipe (in the middle) runs a rod which connects the handle on top to the 'cylinder' on the bottom (in the water). As you pump the handle on top the rod moves the cylinder pump deep in the well. The cylinder pushes a certain amount of water up the pipe with each stroke of the pump. The water does not fall back down the pipe because of values which are in the cylinder which work like a ratchet in the water allowing it to only move up and not down.

I think alot of these 'new' pumps are like the pusher pump above. Just reinventing/remarketing the wheel.

-- ..- (dit@dot.dash), July 01, 1999. I understand Mr. Smith's explanations, it is not necessary to pull your electric pump to install the hand pump. It IS necessary to pull the hand pump if the electric goes bad and needs replacement.

They also make a emergency hand pump for deep wells...evidently not meant to be installed and forgotten. Don't know what the difference is yet (except $100 less).

Greybear...let me know what you think after you read the literature. There are a great amount of rural households around the Upstate that are well-dependent. Regardless of y2k, Duke has dropped the ball with our power often enough that I feel I really need a backup. (That river is cold as blue hell in January and a bath with non-muddy water would be nice).

Also Mr. Smith indicated that he would be looking for distributors in the near future. Your opinions please.

-- Lobo (, July 02, 1999.

Greybear, try also. I bought a pump that can go in beside my submersible and also fill my pressure tank and the cost is comparable to Smith's. The only problem is my wellman was concerned that since we have a 4 inch casing "things might get tangled"...We may drill a new well with a 6 inch casing. By the way, do you have black cattle and live on a county road in Falls Cty? We may be neighbors, but I'm not sure.

-- dr. ben (, July 02, 1999.

dr. ben,

Sorry that we're not neighbors. I live in N. TX

-- Greybear (, July 02, 1999.

I'm interested also. We have a well that is 180 feet. Keep us posted please.

-- Moore Dinty moore (, July 02, 1999.

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