Financial Markets Are Not Ready For Year 2000-BIS

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

BASLE, Switzerland (Reuters) - The world's financial markets are still not ready for the Year 2000 change and much work still needs to be accomplished, the Joint Year 2000 Council at the Bank for International Settlements said Thursday.

"The productive exchanges today between senior representatives of major public and private financial sector organizations made clear the significant progress on readiness being made in financial markets," Council Chairman Roger Ferguson was quoted as saying in a statement.

"However, the meeting also indicated that much work is still to be accomplished; therefore we will need to remain focused in our efforts and avoid complacency," he said.

The Joint Year 2000 Council Thursday held a meeting of public and private sector representatives of the world's banking, securities and insurance industries.

It noted participation in mandatory tests for the SWIFT (Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunications) interbanking payment system remained low and urged supervisors to check whether participants had successfully tested with the system.

The Joint Year 2000 Council was established in April 1998. It is jointly sponsored by the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, the Committee on Payment and Settlement Systems, the International Association of Insurance Supervisors and the International Organization of Securities Commissions.



-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999

Answers

If banks aren't able to pay each other using this system in six months, we won't be able to write checks or use credit cards. All international trade would end, because there would be no way to pay for anything.

This from the industry we're supposed to believe is the furthest ahead...

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.


Yo, Deano, O Banking Industry Y2K type person -

Jump in here. What's the deal with this "low participation" in mandatory tests of SWIFT? Does "mandatory" have its most common meaning of "absolutely required", or does it mean a slightly less forceful "strongly recommended"?

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 01, 1999.


At least there is no spin here.

The world's financial markets are still not ready for the Year 2000 change

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), July 01, 1999.


Link please?

If the participation is "mandatory", what are the penalties (if any) for not taking part? Who's in charge (if anyone)? Are we really to believe this is the best-prepared industry? If so, what does that say about all other industries?

So many questions. So few answers.

*Sigh*

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 01, 1999.


And still the people sleep....... nighty, nighty.

-- y2k dave (xsdaa111@hotmail.com), July 01, 1999.


Deano won't respond to anything he can't debunk

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), July 01, 1999.

Can someone please ask Alan Greenspan what his backup plan is for banks being unable to transfer funds. I don't seem to have his email address.

Also, I'd like his opinion of how the stock market would function if nobody could transfer funds in and out.

Just curious.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.


If not Deano (who's more the mortgage side of the biz), then newlurker or Mr. Decker or any of the other Banking industry aficianados who frequent this forum. Does mandatory in this case mean "must be completed"?

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 01, 1999.

I'm not sure whether "mandatory" has taken on some Bill Clinton-type meaning is the issue. The gut-wrenching fact is that banks, security institutions, and the insurance industry aren't testing this crucial function and it's already July.

Surely they realize the importance of this function. I can only conclude that their systems are not remediated to the point where they can conduct this testing. What other possible reason could there be?

If I'm not mistaken, of the world's 20 largest banks, only one is American. This is a very ominous sign that global trade is in danger of utter collapse. If you're preparing for anything resembling a bump in the road, think again.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.


Dog Gone Link?!?

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 01, 1999.


I'll find the link. Hang on...

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.

Crunch your rodent here

-- Dog Gone (
layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.

Thanks. Crunch your rodent?

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 01, 1999.

Admittedly it more graphic than "squeeze your mouse".

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.

Not surprisingly, still no Polly response.

-- regular (zzz@z.z), July 01, 1999.


Oh, all right...I'll be the Polly.

Look, five months,three weeks and six days is enough time to fix this...isn't it?



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 01, 1999.


Maybe the Pollys are out now. I really want to hear why the "Bankers' Bank" would say this, and that this isn't truly frightening.

Sometimes I think I'm overreacting with the extent of my preparations. Then I read something like this, and wonder if it's possible to prepare enough.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.


K. Stevens

You don't make a very good polly. Sorry.

I'm guessing that the answer is that there is no good answer. Banks have been lying to us through their PR departments and from Koskinen and, because of their laziness, the media.

These old codgers in Switzerland are starting to get concerned. Well, they should have been concerned a couple of years ago, but there's nothing we can do about that now. Still, they are an impeccable source of bad news. It is inconceivable that they would concede this problem, if it were not true. You don't admit something against your vested interest if it's false. Basic business 101.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 01, 1999.


DOG GONE

You're right! I don't make a good Polly...I worked for TWO New York Money Center banks a few years ago. My only observation is that there are NO non mission critical systems in banking! None!!

Which system are you going to triage...Checking?...Trading Operations which clear oh, say $200 BILLION a day from overseas?...or maybe Primary Dealer, the one that buys at the Fed auctions? How about Trust, with its interface with the securities industry?? Or maybe Foreign Exchange??

In my entire career there, I found exactly TWO non critical systems...one that managed the bank's in house ART collection (including a famous, or INFAMOUS pair of DUELING Pistols) and a system to manage a SWIMMING Meet in Westchester County.

You see, DOG GONE, there really is no substitute for victory over this bug. How do you 'work around' any of this? TRUST me, we could use pencil and paper to run General Motors with more success than these banks.



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 01, 1999.


Deano wouldn't know the BIS from a lump of his own ear wax. He's a young peon in a software group at a mortgage brokerage house. He was succesful in remediating the Excel programs for his company in the three years that they had to do it in, and now feels the problem is licked the world over. Er, correct me if I'm wrong O wise one...

-- a (a@a.a), July 01, 1999.

okay, you guys are right. The utter lack of polly response to this thread demonstrates its truth. I keep going to bed every night that somebody will fix it all. Dammit.

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 02, 1999.


Well, don't feel bad, Dog Gone, they're devouring it like a pile of cat shit over at diBunki, too.

-- lisa (lisa@work.now), July 02, 1999.

Lisa

I hope they choke on it. Well, gotta to get to work on that solar panel....

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 02, 1999.


Oh little bitty a, aren't you just the cute little twit. And a complete waste of human skin at that. It's a wonder your mom didn't eat you when she had the chance. What a fucking LOSER......... You're way off homer.....way off. I don't program. I don't remediate. I manage projects.......period. Whether you believe me or not is no biggie to me. I honestly could give a shit if you even draw a next breath. Certainly would be no great loss to the planet Earth. little bitty a - you stink dude.....bad! What?? You can't hear me with your head so far up Milne's ass???? I thought so............

Mac - you're right. I'm not involved with that side of the banking industry. It's ALL mortgage for me. You want info on the MBA testing, I can get that. Problem is is that it is all pretty good news and we know what happens to good news on this board.

BTW folks - very sorry I wasn't manning my PC night and day. You see, I have this thing called A LIFE. A REAL LIFE. I suggest some of you find one before it's too late. Too many hours on it and you will turn out like little bitty a.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Problem is is that it is

So, is it fair to say that the polly response to this report is that it depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 02, 1999.


I had to read little bitty a's comments again. "A young peon in a software group at a mortgage brokerage firm".

Dude - you are one seriously fucked up individual. I'm laughing my ass off at you right now little bitty a.

Although, at 39, I'll take the 'young' part as a compliment. The 'peon' part is just flat out hilarious. And the 'mortgage broker firm' is outrageous. Damn, little idiot a, I've identified who I work for more than once. Are you really that dense young man?? Or are you just putting on a cute little act?? It must be........no one person can be that stupid.....

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


[For you newbies and lurkers:

What Deano is trying to say, in a roundabout way, is that he's terrified and can't express it any other way other than to start swinging.]

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), July 02, 1999.


Dog Gone

My response was not about the banking industry test. I thought that was extremely clear. My 'good news' comment was about the MBA testing. And it IS good news.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Sorry for the misunderstanding Deano -- I guess I should have said middle aged peon... :)

-- a (a@a.a), July 02, 1999.

Yall are one impressive group I tell ya!! I log on, venture to a thread on banking, and see my name being trashed and I haven't even been involved in the conversation. I defend myself against the lies of little bitty a and then get accused of coming out swinging???

Lisa, oh brilliant one, what should I have done luv??? What, exactly, am I terrified of?? Just curious really....... This is the best time of my life honey. I love very minute of every day sweet thang. Vacation starts at 5:00 this afternoon.........so, what exactly am I terrified of dearie?? I'm at a loss on this one. You see, I'm charmed and nothing goes wrong for me.......ever.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Deano, as your attorney, I must advise you to stop tempting the gods, this instant. No kidding, bud. You're starting to get me worried about you.

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), July 02, 1999.

Lisa,

Please don't worry about me honey. I'm fine, really I am. Thanks for your genuine concern though. I'm touched..........deeply touched.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Deano

Do the MBA test results have anything to do with SWIFT? If not, how's that different from getting a "thumbs up" from your doctor regarding hepatitis when it's a broken leg you're worried about?

Have a good weekend, and look out for lightning.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 02, 1999.


Dog Gone

I have not heard of SWIFT before today. All I can speak for is the MBA and it's going well. The MBA did mandate that it's participants partake in this test. Some vendors, however, chose not to participate. Not sure why, they just didn't. Pretty big companies too.

Funny you should mention lightning. I've been hit twice. Once, tubing down the Sante Fe River in 1969, directly on the noggin'. Second time was in my back yard about 10 years ago. That one was just a glancing blow.......no biggie. Did more damage to the house than me. Hit twice by lightning and still here to talk about it. You tell me who's charmed??? I recon the worst part is the street lights going out when I walk under them. That'll get some folks to turn their heads. Ever see the movie 'Powder'? :-)

Don't get me wrong, I'm scared to death of lightning. These days, I'm the first one in the house when a storm is coming.......

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Deano - wow. In this case, I would be alarmed that, indeed, the gods cannot resist you already, and would gamble that with strike three, you're gonna be out.

You must have an intense magnetic field - when you put your hand by your monitor, does the screen waver?

-- Lisa (lisa@work.wow), July 02, 1999.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. That does explain a lot. Thanks for sharing, Dean-o.

-- Deano got (z@p.ped), July 02, 1999.

Lisa,

Yes, the screen does waiver from time to time. Might be me, might not. Not worried about 'the gods' as they're 0 for 2.

I figured yall would have some fun with that. Too bad you don't really understand it though. Surviving a direct lightning strike is not something that happens every day. Much less twice in half a lifetime. Puts a whole different perspective on life it does.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Friends -

As the silly sod who asked Deano for his input, I'd now like to ask that we accept his statement that his experience applies to mortgage systems and move the heck on. Much heat and little light produced from all this.

I know where Deano works, and the company is a major player in financial services. His boss is responsible for all remediation within the company and is known as a serious "doomer". Boss even quoted Ed's "Yelling 'Fire' in a Crowded Y2K Theatre" and opened and closed the presentation with "there are N days until the year 2000, and I smell smoke!" at a gathering I attended a while back, which certainly got everyone's attention. No doubt the two of them have interesting discussions. I have no reason to believe that his company is not absolutely on top of remediation, and is in good shape vis-a-vis their clients.

I'm proceeding on the assumption that 80% of all mission-critical systems will be remediated in time. That may sound like a "pollyanna" stance, but it ain't. The PM for my own company's Y2K program has classed that result as "doomer", since it assumes that 20% will not be remediated in time, which means 1 system in 5 having problems. If that does indeed happen, we're all in a world of hurt.

Deano's company may be part of the 80%. That's good news, for them and their clients. Making references to folks' habits and ancestry does not change the facts, and it doesn't help anyone be better prepared for potential problems.

Deano, please give my best to BB.

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 02, 1999.


And about those lightning strikes:

How do you know they're "0-for-2"? Those may just have been little taps on the shoulder, just to get your attention. "Pay, ah say, pay attention, boy!"

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 02, 1999.


Thanks Mac! BTW - aren't you that silly sod? Too funny!

I should be getting MBA results back the week of the 12th. I'll put something out here then just for grins. BB is doing well and I'll tell her you asked about her. She's still a doomer of sorts but we don't talk about it much. There's just too much to do around here in the real world than to speculate.

Sorry I got carried away up there, but there are a couple of individuals that just rub me the wrong way. I should know better for sure.

Gonna be out on vacation all next week (YAY!). No Y2K for 9 whole days. Yall come on down to Flagler Beach and have a cold Michelob with us. It'll be a hoot........:-)

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


And after they do SWIFT, they have to do CHIPS, FEDWIRE, CUNA, etc



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 02, 1999.


CHIPS, TUNA, etc.?

If Deano hasn't heard of it, it musn't be important. Therefore, it doesn't need to be done. Don't you get it?

-- don't worry (beh@pp.y), July 02, 1999.


don't worry

Just curious how you got that out of what I said. Methinks it's another case of doomers just being doomers. Basically, what don't worry meant to say is 'I have no idea what this conversation is about so I'll just say something completely retarded". and you did it quite well....kinda like you are retarded. Oh.....shit.....sorry about that dude!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


Au contraire, Dean-o, old chap.

I haven't heard of CHIPS, CUNA, etc., but I don't doubt their importance. Nor the importance of SWIFT, which I had heard mention of on numerous occasions in my 2+ years of research.

I respect your knowledge and experience. If you have no knowledge of something, you should admit it. It's not difficult to do, and it'll get you "off the hook".

Enjoy your vacation. You need it, chummo.

-- don't worry (beh@pp.y), July 02, 1999.


DAMN! I log on here to learn a little more something about financial doom and gloom, and I find out that one of our sparring buddies has been hit by lightning TWICE!.

(Only one close call myself as I hurdled a front porch to get outa the rain.)

DAMN! I'm gonna have to think about that awhile, Deano. I mean, that's just an amazing fact all on its own. (I'd tell my wife in fact, but she doesn't know about my 'secret' life in these y2k parts, -- gives me those "uh-huh?" looks -- so I'm just gonna have to savor it on my lonesome.)

Right about now, I'm thinking that might even be more interesting than y2k for me, and I'm gonna have to take the rest of the day off to absorb the fact that I know someone who's survived two lightning hits! (Sorry if this is sounding like it could be sarcastic -- I just realized it could be read that way -- it's NOT. I'm not sure what it is, but you just seemed a lot more human now.)

No wonder you've decided, or were just propelled, into *enjoying* life first and to the utmost. I would hope I'd get that message, too, and do it, too.

This forum is not -- or should not be -- about picking sides, teams, GANGS, and going out to fight each other. It's just a wonderful thing to know that detail about you, I'll remember it a long time.

DAMN! (I'm kinda wondering what our favorite trolls would say to a phenom like yours, only they seem to have skipped this thread. Not sure they'd be able to respond at the level it deserves. Sad.)

Dieter?

Corrine?

"Yes, but if you summon them, will they come?"

-- jor-el (jor-el@krypton.uni), July 02, 1999.


don't worry

You're losing me dude. I made it pretty clear that I had never heard of SWIFT before today. I never said it wasn't important, which makes sense, since I have never heard of it. What, exactly, are you trying to say? I know about the MBA (and beer on another thread) and those are the areas I speak to. Trust me my friend, if I don't know about something, I won't try to fool this crowd.

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


jor-el -

Aye, they do go about in semblance of "spirits from the vasty deep"...

"Peace, cousin, you will make him mad."

-- Mac (sneak@lurk.hid), July 02, 1999.


I can't believe I joked about lightning to someone who has been hit twice. The odds against that are awesome. Glad you made it, Deano.

Anyway, I had read about SWIFT a few months ago, and just assumed that it was being worked at the same pace as the rest of the financial systems. It turns out I was too optimistic. Imagine that.

I have a good friend at Bank of America who I have e-mailed the story to, asking for an opinion. I haven't heard back from him yet. I'm still amazed that this thread hasn't attracted a debunker who will address the specific issue. That speaks volumes.

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), July 02, 1999.


"I never said it wasn't important, which makes sense, since I have never heard of it."

Now you've lost me. That's a triple negative.

Suffice it to say the SWIFT is vitally important (whether Deano's heard of it or not), and the low participation in mandatory testing can only be interpreted as bad news.

I have yet to hear Deano or anyone else challenge that basic premise.

-- don't worry (beh@pp.y), July 02, 1999.


Jor-el

I'm guessing you're being serious. I appreciate that.

Probably the most amazing thing I learned from it is, when lightning hits you, it doesn't hurt. Not at all (other than a big, bad blister or 2). I get migraines now that could be attributed to it.......maybe. Personally, I think the migraines are Y2K induced!

Time to start that vacation NOW!! Take care!

Deano

-- Deano (deano@luvthebeach.com), July 02, 1999.


CUNA is the Credit Union National Association. Even though they fiercely compete for retail business, Money Center banks offer to do Credit Union transaction processing.

It's big business!



-- K. Stevens (kstevens@It's ALL going away in January.com), July 02, 1999.


...

-- K. Stevens (kstevens@bold_off.com), July 02, 1999.

Again, Dog Gone, there's a completely untouched thread at Binky on this topic - in fact, it was posted at 9 am and there have been no new threads since.

You gotcherself a stumper. a, has Cory discussed this, that you know?

(I am also pondering what the effects of lightning on Deano's mindframe. I'll never see a lightning strike again and not think of him.....)

-- Lisa (lisa@work.now), July 02, 1999.


.

-- llllisa (home@wanna.go_home), July 02, 1999.

Beano,

"I have this thing called A LIFE. A REAL LIFE."

Not next year you won't pal...

You don't have a clue little one, you couldn't manage a piss-up in a brewery

Bwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaha

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 03, 1999.


Beano,

third time lucky :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), July 03, 1999.


Dang.... Always a dollar short and a minute too late. I just read the entire chain of communications on this topic and laughed my butt off! This is too funny!! I love the way, those who do not have a real clue, respond to information. (Just preview those who question the "K- S-A" of those who contribute information on existing activities or comment on actual experience) The attacking methodology brings a smile to the topic.

I too work for a company who maintains a serious position in the "Financial Industry". In fact, it is my understanding, that if we are not positioned for a critical future date (Y2K or Not) then the Stock Market will not open. (An no I do not work for a Bank!) However I do work 95% on Y2K activities within my company. I believe we have done everything possible to test, check, fix and re-test for Y2K. My main question for any Financial Company is not if they are Y2K Ready (As I believe they should be by now...) but more along the lines of existing "Contingency Plans" to support an infrastructure Methodology tied to any failure (Y2K or Not). Without respect to the normal lack of relocation, tied to current BCP theory where a "Hot Site" allows for full recovery, what existing planning is in place for the Financial Industry to leverage or establish a valid recovery plan for restoration of service levels? Let's be honest.... As long as the system will work, I really don't care if a computer progam will crunch the numbers or a pencil/paper.

I look forward to your feedback!

-- Y2KDUDE (Webmaster@Y2KDUDE.com), July 06, 1999.


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