Y2K test presents a major sewage problem in Rio Rancho RIO RANCHO, New Mexico An electrical equipment failure during a Y2K test sent thousands of gallons of sewage down an arroyo in Rio Rancho this week. Approximately 4,000 gallons of sewage poured out when water treatment workers were testing an emergency generator. During the test a power surge caused two fuses to blow. Crews were able to clean up about 2,000 gallons of the sewage. Officials say this is the 13th reported sewage spill in Rio Rancho since last May.

url....http://www.msnbc.com/local/KOB/29704.asp#BODY

-- kevin (innxxs@yahoo.com), July 12, 1999

Answers

Hmmm. Maybe there won't be a seminal event that triggers y2k. Maybe it'll just be a continual stream of "some data lost here, some productivity lost there, some lives lost somewhere." Maybe it'll unravel so slowly we won't know what hit us.

This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but with a whimper. - T.S. Eliot

-- a (a@a.a), July 12, 1999.

The generator did not come on in time, and when it did it surged the line voltage, popping the fuses.

NOT Y2K related, just bad preventative maintenance on the stationary Caterpillar diesel used for back-up... it didn't start on its initial crank over.

OOOPS, try again...

loungin' on the porch,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

Remeber, all of these "tests" of emergency power will become "live cases" of real "emergency power" and "backup control system" and "recovery from real power losses" and "recovery from real primary power losses (without any backup power)" when next January and February come around.

Also, these continual failures are very real, very deadly, for anybody drinking the water downstream of any plant that fails. At least now, we can get some warning, we can a large measure of protection of the water supplies downstream because the downstream treatment plants are operating properly and can keep pressure up to exclude grund water contamination.

Often, when water pressure is lost, contaminated ground water flows back into the underground water pipes, and contaminates wide areas of water systems that were not actually affected by the primary supply pump failure.

Result? The water company has to re-pressurize and "flush" many miles of downstream piping until multiple samples in each network are reportewd clean. This can take a while, and requires "good" pressure and a clean water source to do the flushing. If power is lost again during the flush - start over......

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 12, 1999.

Dog, beg to differ that this is not Y2K-related. EPA's summary of its Y2K Enforcement Policy, found at: http://es.epa.gov/oeca/eptdd/ocy2k.html starts off as follows:

"On November 30, 1998, EPA issued an enforcement policy designed to encourage prompt testing of computer-related equipment to ensure that environmental compliance is not impaired by the Y2K computer bug. Under the policy..., EPA stated its intent to waive 100% of the civil penalties that might otherwise apply, and to recommend against criminal prosecution, for environmental violations caused during specific tests that are designed to identify and eliminate Y2K-related malfunctions. The policy also stated that the civil penalty waiver and recommendation against criminal prosecution are limited to testing-related violations disclosed to EPA by February 1, 2000, and are subject to certain conditions, such as the need to design and conduct the tests well in advance of the dates in question, the need to conduct the tests for the shortest possible period of time necessary, the need to correct any testing-related violations immediately, and other conditions to ensure that protection of human health and the environment is not compromised."

I think we are seeing a series of Y2K testing failures that don't even come close to meeting the criteria of EPA's policy. Unfortunately, the water supply/sewage treatment plant sector is one of the areas that EPA is supposed to concentrate. Doesn't sound as though the word is getting out as to how these tests should be run.

-- Brooks (brooksbie@hotmail.com), July 12, 1999.

In this particular instance, the generator HAD NOT been serviced in a LONG time. I know, I was there, that is how I know this test was not a computer failure related issue.

K?

growlin' at the cat,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

about 2 weeks ago, there were 2 spills around DeeCee. they were marginally reported in the Washington Post; definitive causes weren't listed for either one if i remember correctly. it was 2 seperate water plants.

-- sarah (qubr@aol.com), July 12, 1999.

Dog, time to learn some new tricks !!

They'll be plenty MORE stories like this as the full impact of y2k unfolds.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), July 12, 1999.

Dog,

I guess for me, as a layperson, any problem that is either caused directly because of a y2k glitch or a glitch that occurs that then causes problems in other systems is really the same thing...a big problem.

Heck, that is what is meant by systemic, right?

a wrote;

>>Hmmm. Maybe there won't be a seminal event that triggers y2k. Maybe it'll just be a continual stream of "some data lost here, some productivity lost there, some lives lost somewhere<<

This is exactly how I see Y2k unfolding. It's like a snowball starting small and gaining size and speed as it rolls.

So, is there a bottom to this hill or will this snowball keep rolling down into the abyss?

Mike ============================================================

-- Michael Taylor (mtdesign@aol.com), July 12, 1999.

You are persistant in your efforts to deny the relevnace here aren't you?

Couple of points. The immediate failure was failure of teh generator " because it had not been used in a while" - implying that it had NOT been routinely serviced, routinely checked, nor rotunely operated in an emergency mode at the sewage plant.

SO - how can you pretend that the sewage plant could safely operate in an emergency mode next year?

Second. This plant was at least TRYING it emergency generator (and like those tests in Los Angelos) the TEST failed outright and massive quantites of raw sewage was dumped. Now, this was during a test (not the real thing) during normal operations in the rest of the systems and with normal power supplies and full emergency response units and clean up units available.

But the test failed catastrophically - raw sewage was dumped anyway. NOW, tell me why raw seage won't be dumped at plants NOT tested, not remediated (which is over hafl those nationally) and in cities who are NOT trying to get emergency power and control systems on line?

Third - tell me exactly WHY catastrophic failures of water and sewage systems will NOT occur during emergency modes and under manual work-arounds under simultaneous service failures.....

If several plants cannot TEST satisfactorily under "best case" conditions after they have supposedly finished a remediation program, how can you pretend that many hundred plants will not fail under emergency and multiple-failure conditions when they have not remediated correctly beforehand?

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 12, 1999.

Rio Rancho!!! LOL....

I helped wire in that waste treatment center. It,Reo Rathole (a pet name for the addition) is a Burb for the new Intel chip complex.

And I d believe you are wrong about the embeded system also my man...I thought that they would have fixed that delayed time function..( The RTC was chronically slow) And the momentary over voltage spike...Oh well you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...Nor can you seemingly explain to an engineer who believes that he is first cousin to Thomas Alva Edison why there can't be a time lag,nor over voltage...Both functions controlled by embeded systems...

Incdently...Albq. N. Mexico is where I am out of. ROTFLMAO Shakey

-- Shakey (in_a_Bunker@forty.feet), July 12, 1999.

Robert, dude, I just said this particular was not caused by a computer failure.... don't go rabid on me... Jeez...

I fully expect there to be raw sewage EVERYWHERE in a lot of cities. Hopefully Rio Rancho will not be one of them, since I live here...

We have a pretty decent city-wide Y2K plan, IMHO, as long as they stick to the plan...

I personally am ready for just about anything... except maybe a tidal wave...; )

A dog's life is a boring life,

waggin' the tail,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

Chuckle...And another thing. The treatment center is a new one also. And also, the time sensitive PLC's DO NOT have four digit date functions. But then, the dround in that revein is of poor quality. It just might need the extra fertilizer LOL....But I don't think that the near by indian reservation or the petroglyph monument are going to be very happy.

HaaaaHaaaaaHaaaa Shakey

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), July 12, 1999.

Well - yah see, sir dog-of-the-desert, we got anti-rabid shots and not-too-many rabid dogs out running around uncontrolled, so it appears to me that we can manage through a rabid-man-bit-dog problem, but seems there is a great shortage of anti-chlorea and e.coli shots in people's backyards. Course, if too many dogs end up getting bitten, ....

But there is a veritiable "sh**load" of government-inspired spin out there saying ain't nottin go wrong nohow nowhere......including that s**tload of spin gettin' dumped in the water in various unpredictable places affecting all sorts of peoples as they try to drink, wash dishes, cook meals, and wash themselves in schools, hospitals and nursing homes. So's I'd prefer making sure people understand the threat - even to desert dogs ( and the people they live with.)

Now, cats are a different matter - - - - -

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 12, 1999.

Hey Dog... I didn't know that we both called Albq. Home base. Sorry to have disagreed with you old buddy. Incidently, were you one of the designing engineers on the treatment plant? ( Hope not) HeeHee.

I hear that the Chili crop is going to be nill this year. You know I miss the green chili most of all. But I sure don't miss that morning traffic.

My word on Intel. is that they are still delaying their next phase. Sorry to hear that, I enjoyed working with the Japaneese hooking up their equipment. And they seemed to appreacate our help in doing it.

Unfortunately, I don't share you optimisum about the city's efforts to remeadate the y2k factor. I get the news papers also...And no way is a couple or three y2k programmers going to go through all the city's code.

Oh well....LOL ! That is why they make Fords and Chevys. Because every one has different opinions isn't it.

I'd sue like to be up there in Dobie town for the Baloon fest. But that is too close to some of the really bad dates.

Shakey

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), July 12, 1999.

Hey Shakey,

City government here has a LOT of pollys in it, and they aren't looking for any miscues. (yeah right) I will be waiting with bated breath at the rollover anyway. I think we are in a better position than most of the US, IMHO. I keep my .45 and my shotgun in good working order just in case the vatos in the valley decide to come up here and play, if TSHTF. Water seems to be my only concern, as wells are over 300' deep here.

Real bummer about the chile crop, but mother nature wants to play. I avoid the balloon fiesta like the plague anymore... Too many snowbirds and out-of-towners for my taste. I think I will watch it from my porch again this year.

The remoteness up here in Intel Rancho, (the other moniker of this sleepy little place) makes for a little more security in the area. Intel is converting one of the old factories to run the new stuff, so an expansion is not needed.

Lots of quail and rabbits around this year, so meat for the table shouldn't be an issue if all hell breaks loose. There are about 10 of us GI's up here, and we will band together if need be. We all have communication with each other via sideband CB's, and will plan our moves as a team, if the valley boys decide we have something they want.

The sewage problem will be an issue for Corrales and ABQ if it decides to spew again. I wouldn't swim in the Rio either after that little demonstration. But the city officials vow that problem is fixed. (uh-huh, tell me another one) At least it wasn't a couple of million gallons, like LA experienced...

Shakey, keep your head down, and your ammo dry, just in case.

chewin' on a rawhide,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

Uhhhh, Dog. No big deal, but I don't believe anyone mentioned computer failure before you did. Y2K related and failure due to Y2K testing maybe, but that was about it.

You DID say more than "this particular was not caused by a computer failure". You said it was "NOT Y2K related".

I think it can safely be said that the failure WAS in fact related to Y2K testing. That was the whole point of the report in the original message.

-- Weed Whacker (trimming@the.lawn), July 12, 1999.

Weed,

OOPS!!! my mistake... I guess I should proof read more often....

DOH!

tuckin' my tail,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

Sir Dog - Does this mean I don't need my rabies shots anymore? (Your apparently mistyped reply was the reason for my comment.)

Now look, we can't afford two people making as many typo's as I do. There's got be a limit of only one misteaker per threrad, okay?

-- Robert A Cook, PE (Kennesaw, GA) (cook.r@csaatl.com), July 12, 1999.

Ya got me.... I surf much too quickly sometimes...

No! It is MY turn to mistype, and misread, and missspel....

stupid dog...

scratchin' an itch....

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 12, 1999.

Y2K will be a death of a thousand cuts.

-- wayne (wmeeh@earthlink.net), July 12, 1999.

Dog

I am glad that you and yours are getting it togeather. I had to rule out the Albq. area last year, because of Sandia labs and the N. weapons storage in the east mountains below Albq.

I am really worried about the power generation complexes, as that is where I spent the majority of my professional life. I was asked on several occasions if I would like to go help re-build some of the ones that went up this year-and the one at Hamalton, Ind. last year. Several of them, (the word I have) were due to embed failures,or failure during testing.

I do know that some time back, the Utility there called the hall for 200 old time line men. The job! Taking out the digital SCADA switches and replacing them with manual switches. On their grid.....

My current plans, if w are not sucked into a nuclear war, is to ride it out on a ranch down here in far W. Texas....And if it goes nuclear, to head for the Carlesbad area and Dark Canyon. If I can get back in there, they'll never find this old ridge runner LOL. Seriously, I did a lot of treasure hunting and prospecting back in there and over at Silver City. and know the area like the back of my hand. Take her easy now.... Shakey

-- (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), July 12, 1999.

Sharkey--

Smoke jumpin and ridge runnin: Have you heard that Carsbad is on the list of sites set aside for protection from the citizens of the US? Something about Environmental Protection. Gettin in may be better accomplished via Cessna than Ford. Just a thought. Glad to here someone with down in earth common sense! . {;^}`

Oh yea, by the way, have you heard anything about the Land Soverienty Act recently before Congress? Sounds too good to be true!!

-- Michael (mikeymac@uswest.net), July 12, 1999.

Michael

Sorry, I haven't studied the Land Sovernity act...Thanks for the clue though, I'll look it up. I have been watching the proposed 100 mile (on each side of the border) sort of DMZ that the feds are proposing. I do know that there has been a lot of activity just across the border in the past months involving the UN personel... I am really curious about it I will admit. Especially since I read the report from the War college reccommending that the armed forces of Mexico, The United States and Canada should unify in order to guard against terrorism,insurrection (their words,not mine) and other sundry benfits. There is/was a proposal to have the other two countries convert to the US dollar as their currency also.

Insurrection? Now is't that when the citizens rise up against their govt.? If so then it could mean that we get the Mexican army ,or the Canadians to enforce martial law in the US. While our boys enforce it in one of the other countries. Hummmm. Kinda makes it a little easier to fire on civilians, if their not your countrymen!

Shaky (only ust a little harder)

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), July 13, 1999.

As I said on another thread recently: when these "not really a Y2K problem, its something else" events start happening in parallel, simultaneously, all over, come January 2000, I doubt if anybody is going to give a damn. Raw sewage is raw sewage, and pointing out that the specific event was not technically due to a hardware or software component that could not handle the date change, is of no value. It is splitting hairs. And will cost lives.

"If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck -- IT IS A DUCK!"

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), July 13, 1999.

Uh, QUACK!!! er, I mean WOOF!!!

Yeah, that's it...

snoozin' under the kitchen table,

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), July 13, 1999.