Here is the scenario. Received a check from a client yesterday for 20,000 plus dollars for services [building related bussines] written on a check from my clients bank [large bank with over twenty branches] a well known bank. No problem that client did not have enough funds to cover check many times over. Called ahead, talked to manager, said I would wait a few days for them to order cash, but that I did want cash. Bank manager said 'no we can't do that but we will give you a cashiers check that you can cash at you own bank'. Called my own bank, been banking there for twenty years, told them the situation, they said they could cash a cashiers check up to 8,000 dollars. My bank is also a very large, well known bank. Went to "clients bank" to get three 8,000 dollar cashiers checks. Bank Manager at "clients bank said 'no we can't do that'. Walked out with one cashiers check. Was not a happy camper. Went to "my bank", they refused to cash the cashiers check from the extremely reputable cross town bank. My bank said they weren't sure the other bank would pay on it and I had to deposit it into my account and let it clear. As you can immagine that did not make me very happy. Another added little gem, after its cleared I can only take out 5,000 a day. I am just awe struck that one bank will not honor a cashiers check from another extremely reputable bank.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999

Answers

Is it starting to happen,or am I off on a tangent?

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

Gee, thinkIcan -- if you take out $5,000 per day and clean out that account, could you be accused of "structuring"?

Hmmmm.

Anita Evangelista

-- Anita Evangelista (ale@townsqr.com), July 23, 1999.

Anita ---- That is one of the things I was a little concerned about. There was no reason for the "clients bank" not to have given cash in return for that check.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

I sometimes deal with transactions over the "10K" limit.

I have NEVER heard of a bank placing a "hold" on an other banks cashiers check. I have always been able to "draw" from the time of deposit. Are you sure they are not checking you out to make sure you are not a "doper"? With the Know your client nonsense in the banks, they are a ask questions first cash checks second.

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

Helium ---- The answer is no. I have been dealing with this bank for twenty years. They know I deal with larger deposits, and in the past have received cash from checks of similar dollar amounts. My feeling is something is up, something could be happening. That is why I posted this little senario here, to get feed back. God I hate to get paranoid, especially about my money.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan,

Get a lawyer involved and I bet you'll have your cash in a heartbeat. -TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan:

Let's assume for the sake of argument, that this is not related to Y2K.

I would still speak to the highest ranking people at BOTH banks that I could and ask for a better explanation that what you've received thus far. If one is not forthcomming, I'd shop around for a new bank.

You might also want to contact a good lawyer just to know both what the laws are as well as what your rights are.

-- Arnie Rimmer (Arnie_Rimmer@usa.net), July 23, 1999.

think;

If you are Known to the bank, and you have talked to the branch manager (or your personal banker if you happen to bank with BofA) They can move mountians when they want to. But as you point out this may be the front edge of REACTIONARY Banking....

This is not good! This is not GOOD!

(Quote from Goose in TOP GUN as the plane is spirling in to crash in the ocean)

-- helium (heliumavid@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan:

If you've been able to cash these large amounts previously, I would think something is different if you're unable to do it now. I remember when I first moved from Chicago to Texas, however, and had a Cashier's Check to start my account down here. I could get absolutely NO money back until the check cleared. Now that was inter- state banking, so a different story, yet I had NO money save that check (which I always thought to be as good as cash.) I explained my financial predicament to the bankers and they allowed me a few hundred dollars...at least enough to buy some food.

I don't think your problem is necessarily Y2k-related. Branch banks simply don't keep enough money in their vaults each day to accommodate large withdrawals by many. In fact, some actually ask for notice before withdrawing large sums.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 23, 1999.

Arnie ---- Thanks for you imput. I did talk to the top ranking officials of each bank, they had the cards, they said they would not give me the cash. I'm not about to change banks five months before the end of the year, for many, many reasons, but I can tell you in all honesty that the hair on the back of my neck was sticking straight up and there would have been nothing I would have rather done at that moment.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

Anita --- Just to keep the record straight. I phoned the "clients bank" and told them I did not mind waiting a few days to receive the cash from their bank. They simply said they would not do that.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan,

Do you mind making a 'scene'? Start asking, in a loud voice so other customers can hear, "Are you not giving me my cash because of Y2K? Are you telling me that if any of these fine people here on line asked for their money in cash you would NOT give it to them? Who's money is it anyway? Should I be concerned about your Y2K readiness because you refuse to give out cash? Should I start talking to all my friends about how you REFUSE to give out cash?"

Start talking about Y2K and they just might give you the cash to shut you up!

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), July 23, 1999.

TECH23 ---- That just isn't me and many of the tellers have known me for many years. What I have thought about is heiring some picketeers to walk on the public side walks outside this bank. I am seeing total red right now.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan:

I apologize. I noticed that AFTER I hit the submit button. I've never really tried to obtain as much cash as you requested. I'm sure I spent close to $20,000 on a trip to Europe once, but withdrew perhaps $3,000 in cash, another several thousand in traveler's checks, and used the European ATM's to get more money as needed.

Is this whole thing of getting cash based on principle, or do you actually NEED the money in cash-form at this point? You needn't respond if I'm getting too personal.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan,

There is definitely something wrong with the situation you described. A Cashiers Check is a check provided to a customer of a bank or acquired from a bank for remittance purposes. The check is drawn on a bank and signed by a bank officer or employee on behalf of the bank as drawer and is a direct obligation of the bank. The whole purpose of using a CC is to ensure that the instrument will be accepted by other financial institutions without question.

Unless what you were given was a draft designed to look like a CC by the other bank, your bank should have cashed the check. Since the problem is not with the negotibility of the CC (unless it was really a draft), I'm guessing that your bank may be instituting some kind of hidden cash withdrawal limitation.

I would certainly pursue this issue with them. The FDIC recently sent out notice to banks instructing them to refrain from imposing any type of cash withdrawal limitations (DC is afraid it would spook the herd). If your bank has implemented such a limit, they are on shaky ground. I would tell the chief officer of your bank that you are concerned and will be checking with a lawyer and the FDIC about your situation.

Make 'em sweat a bit:-)...

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

That would be "negotiability"...

-- Nabi Davidson (nabi7@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

thinkIcan,

You have two choices:

1. Threaten the banks with legal action or contacting the media.

2. Follow up by legal action or contacting the media.

Bankers are paranoid now. Either course of action will land them in the public eye.

-- bankers (are@paranoid.anywaynow), July 23, 1999.

P.S. In short, GIVE them a reason to be paranoid. If it's remotely possible that this is Y2k related, they will avoid publicity like a plague, because they KNOW that's what it will result in. A December plague.

-- bankers (are@paranoid.now), July 23, 1999.

Anita --- No you are not getting to personal, and yes it is a matter of principal, not a matter of need. I'd like to to be of some service to the readers of this forum, and when something like this happens, I,m not bright enough to figure it all out, and I've always believed that one hundred heads are better than the single one I was born with. So I presented it to the forum, and for those who have responded I say "thanks". Inside my single little head I had a large bell go off, along with a few red flags LOL

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), July 23, 1999.

Think I Can

This is NOT normal. A cashiers check IS cash. Did a similar transaction myself a while ago. Not only should you have been able to cash it at your bank you should definitly have been able to cash it at the bank it was drawn on or what good is it?

Raise heck babe. Get your money while you can. This is a VERY bad sign.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

Folks... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FYI~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You can take this as a rumor, if you wish. But I received, what for me, is hard intelligence last month. That beginning in or around the 15th of September. The banks are to start limiting withdrawels from personal accounts to $100.00 per day. As mt friend said to me.."It is a done deal"!!!

I have know the man for many many years and his business takes him into contact with the BIG BOYS. And his word is enough for me to carry to the "bank" metaphorically. ~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), July 23, 1999.

bought a knew harley in apil 95. had the funds in my account, went to my bank, asked for cashiers check for $14500.. no problem. I got my check, and went and picked up my new got my bike. I often wonder what would happen if I did that today.

-- ed (edrider007@aol.com), July 23, 1999.

Next best thing to do if limitations start is to head on over to your local certified coin dealer, write a check for $20,000 worth of 1oz gold eagles. On second thought, write two checks each for $9500 for 1 oz gold eagles.

Better than Monopoly money, and just might go up in value if economy has problems. If your sitting (or sleeping) on a bunch of cash, potential is for Fed Reserve Notes to be devalued in a crisis.

-- Y2K-Was OK (Happy@risperdane.com), July 23, 1999.

Dear Think, We've got two bankers in our church. One is a VP and one is a branch manager. They are telling me some scary stuff that is being considered. Thanks for your info. Heading to my branch in the AM for a little account reduction policy of my own.

Already in the hills- Dozerdoc

-- dozerdoctor (dozerdoc@yahoo.com), July 23, 1999.

My national bank branch limited cash withdrawals to $1000 late last year. This is very irritating. If there is a new Federal policy that banks are not to impose these types of limits, I would love to obtain specific information so I could inform the idiots. It creates extra trips and extra work and more cashier contacts.

-- Moe (Moe@notstupid.gom), July 23, 1999.

Perhaps now would be a good time to redistribute our funds. Open accounts at several banks. That way, if limits are put on what we can withdraw, we can withdraw the limit at each bank.

-- Homeschooling Grandma (mlaymon@glenn-co.k12.ca.us), July 24, 1999.

Homeschooling Grandma,

That is a great idea!

-- J (jart5@bellsouth.net), July 24, 1999.

thinkIcan

Something is definitely amiss. If you actually had a cashiers check in your hand , that is a direct contractual agreement by the issuing institution. I'm 95% sure that failure to honor that check is a violation of the banking regs (unless of course some super secret executive/Treasury order is in effect). I would try to talk directly to the bank president AFTER I put a call into the bank regulators at the State and Federal level.

-- RDH (drherr@erols.com), July 24, 1999.

I find this incident amazing. I too had problems with my bank. It is not a large bank, has 12 branches. We have been customers for years. My husband gets his check dirctly deposited. But I also cash and deposit reimbursement travel expense checks his company gives him to pay his Business American Express. These are usually several thousand dollars, since my husband travels to Europe often. The last time I went in the girl looked at the check and wanted to know what kind of check it was. I was shocked, to be questioned. It was a company check. Kind of felt like I was being checked out as if I was a drug dealer.

-- Cassandra Bello (american_storm@usa.net), July 24, 1999.

The government, and their proxies, the banking system (Federal Reserve System and subsidiaries) regard "your" money as really theirs.
(Or is it the banking system and their enforcers, the U.S. and state governments, regard "your" money as really theirs?)

Due to banking laws and regulations, there is no competition, so they can arbitrarily change the rules at any time.

Over the years, they have changed many rules to suit their purposes, not yours the customer.

Such things as eliminating passbook accounts, eliminating bearer instruments, refusing to honor checks not magnetically imprinted, refusing to honor the limitations of post-dates and endorsements you may make, limiting withdrawals, refusal to sell cashier's checks for cash, refusal to honor cashier's checks in the manner they were originally designed for (they are no better than regular checks, nowadays, as you have discovered), etc.

The system is fundamentally fraudulent and dishonest -- fiat money, loan money created out of thin air (but YOU can't do that), fractional reserves.

You need to consult a lawyer or find authoritative information on "structuring" on the internet. Caution. Almost anyting you do can be considered "structuring". With that in mind, do what you can to withdraw early (ASAP) and often.

When TSHTF, if you are number 1 or 2 in a line of 100, you might get your money. If you're number 3+, you'll be S.O.L.

-- A (A@AisA.com), July 24, 1999.

I agree with Nabi. As a former branch manager of a large bank, we ALWAYS honored cash withdrawals of any amount. Sometimes, we would have to ask for a day or two in order to request additional cash so as not to stress our vaults.

-- David Bowerman (dbowerman@blazenet.net), July 24, 1999.

Shakey - is there any way that we can vertified that 100.00 cash withdrawals will go in effect in September? I would appreciate any additional information you have or could lead me in the right direction.

-- truman (jude@aginet.com), July 24, 1999.

Federal Reserve: Don't Save Pennies

Sunday, 25 July 1999 16:10 (GMT), (UPI Spotlight)

DENVER, July 25 (UPI) - The U.S. Mint is cranking out new pennies like never before to fill shortages created by the robust economy and millions of Americans who have let them pile up at home.

Federal Reserve spokesman Gordon Gregg says more than 114 billion pennies are in active circulation in the United States out of the 312 billion minted in the past 30 years, which works out to more than 400 for every man, woman and child in the nation.

" " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " "

-- penny wise (pound@poor.bank), July 25, 1999.

think I can:

The issuer's bank refused to cash my first paycheck when I was employed by H/P Companies several years ago.

Mr. Peterson (the P in H/P) is a well known developer in Fairfax, VA.

I simply kept repeating, each time with increasing volume that could be heard by other customers, if they would not cash the check, then get Mr. Peterson on the phone and tell him his check is no good.

The excuse was they wanted three forms of ID and I only had one.

No good, I told them. My ID is valid and is enough. You get him on the phone and tell him his check is no good.

Finally, between me being right, the amount being small (less than two grand), and the attention I was getting, the manager came over and approved the transaction.

On two or three other occasions, with other issuers and other banks, I have done the same thing. I keep the focus on getting the issuer on the phone and having the bank tell him the check is no good.

The banks have honored the checks, so far.

I would be proud to try one out for twenty thousand if you ever need some help, but I have no reason to believe this will get any easier.

As for the respondant that suggested getting multiple accounts, my thinking is you will just have to stand in multiple lines and win multiple arguements.

-- Tom Beckner (xouttbeckner@erols.com), July 25, 1999.

Shakey and others,

Please keep us informed on these issues. I see difficulities with my business arising if these facts are true. I was hoping things would stay stable for a few more months.

-- Moore Dinty moore (not@thistime.com), July 26, 1999.

Cashier's Checks are not safe. My large local regional bank has lost many many thousands of dollars on fake cashiers checks. You want the money in your account? Ask the other bank to FedWire it directly. If you were transferring any large amount, few banks in this day and age will accept a large cashier's check. A Fedwire means the other bank actually took care of the transaction. If they won't do that, then there really is a problem. Glenna

-- Glenna Kamoroff (kamoroff@hotmail.com), July 26, 1999.