Alright folks we have a problem. As one would expect Andy Ray has shown he has more than just a "scientific" interest in the Forum. In the next two links you will see that the problem is. Andy Ray discribed (below) the method of diverting replys to a differant thread. HA HA So on the "GI's dropping out" thread the replys go to the "A gift to Andy Ray" thread.

When do you (GI's) plan to 'drop out?'

A gift for Andy Ray

Below is a thread started by Andy Ray (at Debunking) on how to do such a thing. I will leave it to your interpetation in regards to his well meaning posts.

You folk more than likely have no idea how bad this can get. You can screw with the main board on Greenspuns forum. All that is needed is to have someone drop black background gifs on there and we are fucked. And yes I believe this is JUST ONE WAY to majorly disrupt the forum. There are others.

Did you know that you can post gifs on the main board. I have even figured out a mini Prep form that can be posted on the Main Board. If someone is really creative they can do REALLY BIG DAMAGE.

This is one time I value having this moderators forum. I don't think Phil knows how easy it would be to kill a forum.

So here is the dirt. I would advise Andy Ray being told not to repost and to have this as a reminder to all that there are people that will disrupt a forum devoted to free speach. Also I have included a comment from Paul Davis, CPR, and Maria. And least CPR and Maria deplore the idea.

On with the show.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Debunking Y2k webboard

Do not use this trick to disrupt the Hysterium - it is unfair...
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 14:12:19

12.79.198.90 writes:

Do not use this trick to disrupt the Hysterium - it is unfair...

In any case, were I trying to disrupt the forum, I would advise their
opponents to utilise the following piece of code, which reroutes those
pesky DELETE requests to your favorite thread.

Let's say, for the point of argument, that you wished to have a recent
post from a@a.a receive all the DELETE requests your post is sure to
generate. You could add the following code to the end of your message
to redirect responses to that message:

< form method="POST" action="q-and-a-post-reply-form.tcl" >:
< input type="hidden" name="refers_to" value="0019JC" >

You could aim this at any existing message for which you disagree by
viewing the shortcut to that message and substituting the last part of it for
the 'value' tag in the above.

But, do not do this, as this would be truly
disruptive, and really beyond the pale in a
civilised debate.

Regards,

Andy Ray

Andy Ray

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Debunking Y2k webboard

Access to a private forum?
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 15:35:46

12.79.198.86 writes:

Debunking Y2k webboard - Access to a private forum?

Now, I suppose I could have been disruptive if I encouraged people to
disrupt the Hysterium, but I chose to take the high road, discouraging
people from using the snippet of code provided (which can be highlighted
in the original thread of this message, copied and pasted into your
response at the Hysterium, or saved as a text file for later use; much like
the arguments employed by the doomers at the Hysterium). And if I had
encouraged people to utilise this snippet of code, it would only take an
experienced programmer a few lines of code to trap and remove such data
from the database of each post...of course that would slow things down a
bit there...and that may be seen as a disruption, though I believe that's a
stretch. I suppose I could author such code - for a small fee.

I also suppose I could issue some sort of 'guideline' of my own, stating
that if people do not wish to engage in debate at this level, they should
perhaps refrain from initiating such tactics - as I find it highly entertaining
to turn my opponent's tactics back upon them in any debate. We can
continue in this manner until one of us stops, and I will be pleasantly
amused by the distraction such endeavors promise. (This brings to mind
some advice I received while training in my youth with an Hispanic
gentleman who served as a US Airborne Ranger in Vietnam: 'If you
cannot [urinate] in the tall grass, then do not run with the big dogs.')

In the meantime, let's see where it goes from here, shall we?

Regards,
Andy Ray

Andy Ray

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Debunking Y2k webboard - I did not think of that...

Debunking Y2k webboard

I did not think of that...
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 19:01:52

12.79.245.131 writes:

I did not even consider the fact that there are a lot of other BBS's
out there utilising Mr. Greenspun's scripts - I think I'll go digging
some more...see what else I can find.

Andy Ray

Andy Ray

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Actually, the most interesting results would be obtained by

Debunking Y2k webboard

Actually, the most interesting results would be obtained by
Thursday, 29-Jul-1999 00:16:22

12.67.2.93 writes:

By a combination of javascript and Greenspun's tcl scripting. For
instance, it should be possible to spoof browsers into giving you the users
home email address, and thus their real name, plus IP addresses and other
info from the client computer. Then use Greenspun's script to do one of
his automatic emails to your email box and let you know who opened your
post! This would pretty quickly out all the trolls and mysterious posters.

For that matter, I don't think Greenspun applies security to each post in a
thread, just through the thread header. Since you are actually looking at a
text database, simply accessing each post sequentially in the base 62
ordering he uses would get you all replies to each thread on the private
forums and the public forums as well. Of course, a program would have
to do that - I suppose you could have it index key words in every post as it
went and have a key index at hand good for every post made before the
program was run. That would certainly settle a lot of arguments over who
posted what.

Thought of all that months ago, while studying how his software was put
together, and did not do anything about it as most of it seems unethical,
and the rest is quite a bit of work.

Paul Davis

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed. SUCH TRICKS ARE --> WRONG <--.

Debunking Y2k webboard

Agreed. SUCH TRICKS ARE --> WRONG <--.
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 16:24:24

151.164.52.63 writes:

ANY HACKER could make a mess of almost any usenet or BBS.

The unwritten law of the NET IS: YOU DON"T DO IT.

There is such a thing as "right and wrong".

cpr

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not just unfair...downright SICK!

Debunking Y2k webboard

Not just unfair...downright SICK!
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 14:52:42

153.34.32.125 writes:

Andy:

For goodness sake, do you think you're the ONLY person with a
more optimistic view that has been mimicked by imposters? I couldn't
even count all the posts on TB2000 that I didn't post.

Your suggestion, however, even though suggested as an unfair
practice indicates that you have few (if any)scruples. It seems that you
want to "win" your argument by any means necessary.

I prefer to let the truth unfold. It's there to be had. Some notice and
some don't, but resorting to trickery is downright disgusting, IMHO.

Anita


-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

Answers

Well it was a matter of time till someone got it.....

TBY2K SYSOP(s) ATTENTION PLEASE!!

For what it's worth I found this at debunks site. Sujjest
deleting any threads that have this ISP#. I never thought I
would be the one to advocate censorship. Ya never know.

SNIP

Do not use this trick to disrupt the Hysterium - it is unfair...
Wednesday, 28-Jul-1999 14:12:19 12.79.198.90 writes:

I have been wrongly accused recently of attempting to
disrupt the Hysterium. Lately, someone (maybe more than
one) has been posting using my name and email address -
but I cannot make out whether the posts are meant to insult
me or to further my cause of educating neutrals about the
character of doomers - perhaps both, in which case I can live
with the (attempted) insults.

In any case, were I trying to disrupt the forum, I would
advise their opponents to utilise the following piece of code,
which reroutes those pesky DELETE requests to your
favorite thread.

Let's say, for the point of argument, that you wished to have
a recent post from a@a.a receive all the DELETE requests
your post is sure to generate. You could add the following
code to the end of your message to redirect responses to that
message:

:

You could aim this at any existing message for which you
disagree by viewing the shortcut to that message and
substituting the last part of it for the 'value' tag in the above.

But, do not do this, as this would be truly disruptive, and
really beyond the pale in a civilised debate.

Regards,

Andy Ray

END SNIP

-- R. Wright (blaklodg@hotmail.com), July 29, 1999

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

This is getting bad

Now the "TBY2K SYSOP(s) ATTENTION PLEASE!!" code has been changed to go to another thread about flint and maria.

I think that Diane had better talk to Phil about this one.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

the problem with R. Blackledge's post is that the redirect code is embedded in teh quote from debunker, and so, since it happens FIRST, Phil's code never gets executed, and the diversion wins.

DAMN!

Chuck

PS Di Please delete the apropriate threads. Something aboiut my timing!

C

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

Has anyone reported this to the culprit's ISP? Sabotage--ADVERTISED sabotage--HAS to be a violation of their TOS.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

I'm trying to find the locations where that code is used to redirect comments.

Gonna need help on this one.

It all seems to redirect to "A gift for Andy Ray."

Why not just, at the end of all new threads do a "TEST" and if it doesn't post there, we'll know where ther problems are.

All use the same e-mail: test@test.test

So I can find and globally delete the "tests" when finished.

Thanks,

Yes, I will alert Phil and Yes, I will complain to the Inside The Web, once I have some morning coffee and figure out the HTML snaffoos.

Found one code that was redirecting posts to Andy's e-mail box too.

*Sigh*

Diane

6:20 am PDT

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

Okay,

The guy who started the code is Richard and he first did it on the Gift for Andy Thread.

What does this have to do with anything Andy?

< form method="POST" action="q-and-a-post-reply-form.tcl" >
< input type="hidden" name="refers_to" value="0019Lt" >

(DON'T CLOSE UP THOSE SPACES OR THE CODE WILL ACTIVATE)

Answered by Richard (no@email.here) from 207.70.165.37 on July 28, 1999.

DNS now: 207.70.165.37 maps to ... hunt-pri6-a37.lcc.net

Also, last week someone else sent responses to the http:// www.freerepublic.com/forum/ whihc I corrected after Tom Carey flagged me.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

The above was from the "When do you (GI's) plan to 'drop out?'" thread that I just corrected.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

question, does this code activate only after a certain number of responses are made?

Mike

====================================================================

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

Micahel,

I have no idea what is was doing, but it appeared, for the most part to be embedded within the teal Andy Ray clone messages, on about 10 different threads and it sent either copies or actual posts to the "Gift for Andy Ray" thread.

I did find some other instances of different pollys, including a known troll "testing" with this code...

Answered by Testing (1@2.3) from 130.110.106.160 on July 29, 1999.
DNS now: 130.110.106.160 maps to ... 130.110.106.160

< form method=post action="insert-msg.tcl" >
< input type=hidden name=q_and_a_p value=t >
< input type=hidden name=refers_to value=0019Le >

(Added spaces so it won't activate).

Testing (1@2.3) on 1999-07-29: Response to A gift for Andy Ray

Often goes by the name: Do You See (how.stupid@you.look)

It appears there are several trolls.

With that said, if you look a some of the discussions between Andy Ray and Paul Davis, on De Bunkers, although they didn't start this, they are looking at ways of making it worse.

*Big Sigh*

Diane

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

There's a post on Bonkers (re this subject) which relates the urban legend about scanners and cell phones. Used to be, scanners could pick up cell phones. Protests made, scanners rendered incapable of picking them up. However, instructions say this thingie has been put in to prevent (arrow shows on diagram), don't remove it, especially not with the pliers enclosed. It's the modern-day equivalent of Richard's "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?" or whatever the exact quote is. So, yes, they are deliberately egging people on.

I think now that they've had this up their sleeves for a while, keeping it in reserve for when an attempt was made to start another forum--as well they might have surmised from the nice peace and quiet of the prep forum. It's fully intended to run as many people off as possible before the new forum is up and running. I think now my first priority would be get a new password forum going QUICK, before any more people leave; then notify TPTB. Otherwise, by the time TPTB are notified and take action, there won't be anybody left except the tin-foil hatted ones.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

Sorry to disagree with you OG, but I believe that, while now may be an OK time to start a new forum, now is the PERFCT time to simply go in and take a large shotgun into the Classic forum and start blowing things away. if they scream, "that's unfortunate". THIS is PRIMA FACIE evidence of VERY Maliciuos intent, and we can truly be justified in WHATEVER we need to do to correct it.

Chuck

feeling only small tad Machiavellian this morning

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

No more Band-aids. If we'd spun off a private forum when it was first suggested, we wouldn't have lost a whole bunch of people already. If you've ever been to Britain you know that a lot of pubs have both a "public bar" and a "lounge" or "saloon bar." The public bar is pretty earthy, wood floor, basic furniture and decor. Occupants are often in work clothes or grubbies and they can play darts, and swear within reason. The lounge or saloon is plush, upholstered chairs and seats, nice tables, wall lamps, etc. People in there are the suits and nice informal clothes crowd, soft, intelligent conversation, nobody gets out of line. A workman goes in therer, the landlord asks him to go to the public bar. If he doesn't, they call the cops. And the prices are a bit higher. There's also a "snug" for courting couples, but we won't go into that. Why can't we have both a public bar and a lounge bar?

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

feeling only small tad Machiavellian this morning

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), July 29, 1999.

If there is a time to start hammering the trolls this would be it.

Timeing is everything. Of course this is Diane's final call and I will stand by her choice.

-- Anonymous, July 29, 1999

I'm ready to see the hammer fall too. Heck, sometimes I wish I could delete my own posts : )

Mike

===================================================================

-- Anonymous, July 30, 1999

Hmm..."Mild Mannered Reporter" is back:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=001A19

"Fed says U.S. banks readier for Y2K than others"

-- Anonymous, July 30, 1999

So, basically,

Everybody... except Patrick ;-D agrees that a "heavier" delete hand is required?

Thinking about a two-week trial period.

Stay tuned.

BTW, just posted a new thread in the Mod Forum which looks, to me, like an implied threat from "Andy Ray."

*Sigh*

Diane

-- Anonymous, July 30, 1999

BTW, Kevin,

Mild Mannered Reporter is Super Polly / Supre Troll.

-- Anonymous, July 30, 1999