Young Hoffy has been blathering and blustering about how confident he is in FAA compliance on another thread. It's put up or shut up time folks. I propose we start a collection for Hoffy's millennial trip...

I repeat my question to Hoffy, would you volunteer to fly at rollover from any US City of your choice to any South American city of your choice.???

You may return (!) after a 1 day stopover.

I propose a whip-round from forum members to send Hoffy on the journey (perhaps last) of his sorry lifetime.

I'll start the collection with $20, any more takers to send Hoffy into oblivion?

Total so far - $20 : Andy

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 06, 1999

Answers

Andy, not into stunts just to prove a point.

But...

You come up with the bucks for my wife and I, roundtrip, plus three days in Cancun, and you're on. Either the trip out or return will be over the rollover.

Got a deal?

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), August 06, 1999.

Just to be a nice guy I'll chip the full price of his one way ticket over there. The catch is Hoffy has to stay either in Argentina (left without its Peso currency because of Y2K) or in Brazil (left without telephony because of Y2K).

Now this generous contribution of mine just begs the question: just how am I so sure about either or both of the above?

Well, ask!

Just ask me... please...

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 06, 1999.

Andy is just so determined to make sure this Y2K thing goes down to the bitter end. Too bad it's such a source of enjoyment for him. Maybe if he lightened up a little people might start mistaking him for a human being and that is why he is such a grim figure.

-- -Andrew (2000FOF@idiotsavant.net), August 06, 1999.

IMHO Hoff makes a good contribution to the forum. He is a keeper. Even if you don't like his views....

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 06, 1999.

Andy's the only one around here with a sense of humor,Andrew. I would contribute but my conscience would bother me if;.....I can laugh now thinking about it but if it happened I'd feel like an accessory to suicide.

-- KoFE (your@town.USA), August 06, 1999.

Andrew, your sense of humor and your Y2K ignorance go hand in hand man!

Hoff, wify's also included, yup. I'll make it two one-way tickets then. Destination? Brazil or Argentina?

Take care (Ask me, just ask me!)

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 06, 1999.

-- Z1X4Y7 commented:

"IMHO Hoff makes a good contribution to the forum. He is a keeper. Even if you don't like his views.... "

ZiX4Y7, you missed the point of the thread totally !!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 06, 1999.

C'mon! Ask George!

-- Dog Gone (layinglow@rollover.now), August 06, 1999.

-- -Andrew commented:

" Maybe if he lightened up a little people might start mistaking him for a human being and that is why he is such a grim figure. "

Andrew, Andy has a GREAT sense of humor where's yours???

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 06, 1999.

Hoff, a simple YES or NO would be sufficient !!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 06, 1999.

OK George, just how are you so sure about either or both of the above?

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 06, 1999.

Andy, I've got $20 to toss in the pot !!

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 06, 1999.

I'll kick in $30 to buy Andrew's ticket....please! At least Hoff has a sense of humor. Let's just send anyone who prefers Polkas over a good gut-buster, OK?

Hmmm. Group rates?

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 06, 1999.

No need for a collection folks! Troll Maria has agreed to provide a Guaranteed Y2K Compliant Complimentary Flight for Hoff & the companion of his choice!

-- (flight@control.center), August 06, 1999.

Ok we've got a total of $40 so far plus two one way tickets for Hoffy and Wifey to Argentina or Brazil...

Any more takers, roll up, roll up!

So far at Rollover we will have Hoffy/Wifey/Go-Skin-Em/The Head of the FAA and a coupla dozen hapless chinese y2k remediators flying...

Oh, and Hoffy, whatever happens you ***WON'T*** be flying VIRGIN :)

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 06, 1999.

I'm with Z1X4Y7, Hoffmeister is about the only contributor left on this forum who can adequately represent the "pollyanna" point of view, without apparently being a "plant" from that anti-North forum (not sure of its name). I always enjoy reading his posts, even though I am odds with just about all of them.

Hoffmeister shows us again and again: you cannot prove to a high degree of certainty (e.g., "beyond a reasonable doubt") what is going to happen come January. Any choices that we make must be made on the basis of both tangible as well as intangible beliefs. My own assessment is that Y2K is going to be a complete and utter disaster, and that reports to the contrary are often based on organizations like the FAA lying through their teeth, just as they have in the past. But can I prove that this time they are not telling the truth? No.

I will say this to Hoffmeister: I hope that you do not conduct your personal affairs in the same manner that you approach Y2K. For example, if somebody owed you a large sum of money, and continually failed to pay you the money back on the appointed dates (i.e., missed deadlines), and clearly had lied when they claimed that they had the money to pay you previously (like previous GAO findings on the FAA), that you do not put up with that kind of nonsense. Good luck, regardless of whether you get the free flight or not.

-- Jack (jsprat@eld.net), August 06, 1999.

Hey,

I've just had a brainwave - I may just spring for Hoffy's flight myself on my credit card, after all, there will be no banking system right Hoffy?, so I'll be in the clear and you'll get a nice sun tan...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 06, 1999.

Don't care how you pay for it, Andy.

As long as I've got the tickets and resort confirmations.

-- Hoffmeister (hoff_meister@my-deja.com), August 06, 1999.

O.Kay guys, back from dinner. You ready? Ray, YOU asked for it !

BRAZIL

prime rate: 30% (yes indeed)

deficit: 10% GDP (that's cute)

unemployment: 19% (hmmmm)

population: 159 million (pretty explosive Hoff, sure you want to take Wifey with ya ? (laugh) Hold it guys!! VERY pretty 'garotas' too, so maybe you might think about it, huh? (Go for it Hoff!)

Latest Y2K poll: 23% of population believes Y2K is a brand of shaving cream (they still shave old fashioned down there) and 37% believe Y2K is a typo error (honest to God!) . Talk about awareness!!

phones: Telebras, the official phone state agency still has trouble trying to get itself privatized. Last two attempts failed. Technology untouched for the past 20 years. Haven't made any investment because privatizing means selling the market, not the assets( what assets?)

How do I know: Been there.

ARGENTINA:

Main trade partner: Brazil (35% of exports)

Currency: One Peso equals one US Dollar acording to Argentina's currency board monetary system. Problem is that Argentina is almost all cash. Only 15% of GDP goes through banks. 85% of the economy is cash. Luxury apartments are bought cash. Most salaries are paid cash. Cars are bought cash. Second problem is that 70% of deposits are dollar denominated. So with such a strong dollar-cash economy, an Argentine bank run would easily demand (as in the Tequila effect) a good solid 20 billion dollars or more. Did Uncle Allan think about this elsewhere in the world?

How do I know? : I better shut up.

Hoff, we love you guy! (No, I'm not gay, it's the TGIF spirit. Us doomers are just as 'normal' as pollies)

Take care

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 06, 1999.

I'm in for $20. And I'll even spring for a few disposable cameras so Hoffy can capture some "Kodak moments" for us.

Keep up the good work Hoff. And Decker and Flint also.

-- a (a@a.a), August 07, 1999.

group rates ... kiss-off to a Troll Retreat.

Round 'em up, Hoffy, Flint, Cesspoole, Y2K Pro, Cherri, Mutha, Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts, darling Jerry, FU, Maria, Deano, Doom, Suck, Decker ... help me out here, there's more, who am I missing?

-- club troll (fly@brazil.bundle), August 07, 1999.

Club Troll: You missed Anita Spoonera!!! How could you??!!

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 07, 1999.

Before we send them off, can we charter a short bus and take them bowling?

-- Take a troll to lunch (Steeerike@dot.com), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

I wasn't aware that there was a point. Please explain. Thanks.....

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Z, I'm gonna write sloooooow ...... the point being that Hoffmeister believes the FAA is COMPLIANT and HONEST. A few of us here have our DOUBTS about the HONESTY of the FAA.

Andy has been kind enough to attempt to send Hoffmeister to South America FREE of CHARGE, so that Hoff can prove that flying will be NO PROBLEMO!!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

(Guys don't tell Hoffy about this but just between ourselves please be advised that Ezeiza airport in Buenos Aires has only 1 (one) runway, with heavy fog banks in early morning hours and evenings. Trial and error landings are allowed though)

-- George (jvilches@sminter.com.ar), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

People who write slow generally think the same way; or not at all. Which are you......

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Nada problemo George,

Hoffy's plane can just flash it's headlights on approach and get talked down...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

Please note that Hoff and I have had a discussion on just this point on another thread. We don't really agree. But if you want to be nasty, well I have a lot of experience in that area. I am an expert. I can [without 4 letter words] do a job.....

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

Your sloooow writing comment was taken as the insult it was intended to be. Here in Montana we have an old saying "be careful of the gunfighter that you choose". While this will be words and not bullets; be warned....

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Actually Z1X4Y7, Hoffmeister has responded to this thread with good humor. Maybe you could take a few pointers from him rather than exercising your already well-honed nasty skills?

Just a thought...

-- Take a troll to lunch (steeerike@dot.com), August 07, 1999.

Gee -- Z1X4Y, I'm shakin in my boots. Lay the verbage on me. PLEASE convince me that the FAA are not a bunch of LIARS. Mind sharing your PRIVATE conversation with us common folk??? Give us your EXPERT opinion regarding the FAA and LYING.

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

Take a troll to lunch (steeerike@dot.com), August 07, 1999.

Good thought Take. But I am waiting for an apology from Ray. Otherwise, I will be brutal....

Z

---------------------------------------------------------------------- --

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Z, see my apology two posts above.

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

To Your Pal, Ray:

No I don't think that the FAA is a bunch of liars. Do I think that they are providing the information that I need to determine that they will operate at turnover. NO. We've been through this on another thread. If you fly as much as I do, this is an important question. As to your approach to debate; that is answered in preceding threads.

Your friend;

Z

Be carefull of the gunfighter you choose

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Z, I'll leave you with this thought

"Ray:

I wasn't aware that there was a point. Please explain. Thanks.....

Z

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999. "

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

What was that point. I'm still not sure, other that the fact that you find being rude, somehow exciting.....

Z.

BE CAREFUL ET

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

George, spoons, we can't leave Craig behind. Brain's having a doomer meme disconnect moment. Who else gets a one-way ticket?

Accounted for: Hoffy, Flint, Cesspoole, Y2K Pro, Cherri, Mutha, Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts, darling Jerry, FU, Maria, Deano, Doom, Suck, Decker, Anita Spoonera, Craig, ______ ________ _________ ________ ________

-- club troll (fly@brazil.bundle), August 07, 1999.

Lest we forget our Pal Paul Davis.

Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

-- Take a troll to lunch:

Because of your honest statement, I owe you an explanation. I came from a not too wealthy family. I worked my way through a PhD degree. Where I come from, you don't accept insults from the likes of Ray without responding. My problems are not from the thread. They are from the "I will write this slowly" episode. We poo' folks don't take ridicule lightly. I will hound him. That is the way things are.

Best wishes,

Z

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-- Z1X4Y7 (Z1X4Y7@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Hoffy, Flint, Cesspoole, Y2K Pro, Cherri, Mutha, Jimmy Bagga Doughnuts, darling Jerry, FU, Maria, Deano, Doom, Suck, Decker, Anita Spoonera, Craig, Paul Davis, ______ ________ _________ ________ ________

We have to know where all to send the bon voyage card for sigs.

-- club troll (fly@brazil.bundle), August 07, 1999.

Z,

Elephant hide is a prerequisite here !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

Z:

Hang around for a while, and you'll discover that although the doomies lack any particularly bright spokesperson, most still have more arrows in their quiver than Ray, who's basically a "me too" and "yeah, what *he* said" guy still waiting for his first clever idea.

To get a clear picture of what's happening with y2k and try to describe it here, you aren't fighting brilliance, but weight of numbers holding religious faith. But don't let this bother you -- if you're looking for information about y2k, this is the wrong place to waste your time. But if you're fascinated by the increasingly inflexible dogma of a dying cult, this place can't be beat. The topic is by now irrelevant, but the intensity of the self-brainwashed belief system is just an amazing thing to watch.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 07, 1999.

Hi Flint, I've seen CAMELEONS that can't change color as fast as you change your tune on y2k. What are you today, a doomer or a polly??? Take some time, write a few thousand paragraphs and then let us know.

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 07, 1999.

I have a few questions here:

1) Why are the optimists referred to as trolls?

2) Does the South American offer extend to the list wherein my name was misspelled, or are we only offered bowling? spoonera is my E-mail address. My name is Anita Spooner...so spoonera is like Spooner,A...get it?

3) If we're only offered bowling (which sounds like fun in itself), how is everyone going to be rounded up from all parts of the U.S.? Will someone pay for pickup and return? Where will the bowling alley be located? More importantly, who's popping for the beer?

4) If we're offered the trip to South America, can I bring along my mate also? His fantasy is to spend the millennium in Brazil, but he wouldn't mind going a year early. Again...who's popping for the beer? We never drink the water in these countries, ya know.

5) Would a flop-house be included in the South American trip? I can't afford to spend any money on this one, ya know. Now that I think about it, would meals, bowling fees and shoe rental be included in that bowling outing?

6) Charles Reuben has stated that he'd fly anywhere during rollover. Is he included in the offer even though he doesn't post to this forum?

7) Is beer called cerveza even in Brazil? [These important questions really need to be answered first.]

I'm sure I have more questions, but these are the first to come to mind. Also, don't forget that flights to South America must be secured on an FAA-covered airline (like American). I've always taken advantage of the cheaper rates of the foreign airlines when traveling, but this one is to test functionality of FAA-covered airlines, right?

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 07, 1999.

Ray:

Just as a suggestion, if you really want to emphasize a word to the point of shouting it, you really ought to spell it right. Otherwise, the effect is kind of lost, you know? Misspelling your key words might lead people to conclude that your research on key issues is similarly shoddy.

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 07, 1999.

Anita: Do you have a pet monkey or chimp?

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 07, 1999.

Fllint commented:

"Just as a suggestion, if you really want to emphasize a word to the point of shouting it, you really ought to spell it right. "

I'm SURRE you got my point !!

Your Pal, Ray

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 08, 1999.

Italics Off

-- Ray (ray@totacc.com), August 08, 1999.

Sounds like I'm not included in this offer. I did a little price/availability check via Sabre. Sticking with the dates required and sticking with the airlines under FAA control, I came up with the following from DFW to Rio and back.

Delta #688 to Atlanta on 12/31/99, then Delta #105 from Atlanta to Rio on Friday 12/31/1999 arriving Saturday, January 1, 2000 at 10:30 am

Returning: United #990 1/1/2000 11pm to Miami, arriving at 11pm, transferring to American 1337 on Jan 2 to DFW. Total price for 1 (round-trip) = $3,270.40.

Nice try, Andy, but I don't see this forum getting the money in time. My first attempt at a return flight was already sold out. Seems there are more folks flying to/from S.A. than you thought. Oh...BTW...the Chinese said that bit about their programmers being forced to fly was just a rumor. I guess you missed that one in the mainstream press.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 08, 1999.

That doesn't look right...11pm, arriving at 11pm. I didn't write down ALL the times. Sorry.

-- Anita (spoonera@msn.com), August 08, 1999.

Sorry you're not goingto be sipping martini's on Copacabana Beach anita :)

"Oh...BTW...the Chinese said that bit about their programmers being forced to fly was just a rumor. I guess you missed that one in the mainstream press."

Yes must have missed it, last I heard it was the remediation project managers, not the grunt programmers, that were being forced to fly over rollover by the Chinese...

We'll see.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 08, 1999.

http://info.cv.nrao.edu/y2k/sighting.htm

1999 July 12: Airlines announce New Year's groundings. Reuters reports that Polish national airline LOT will ground all its planes on 2000 January 1 to avoid Y2K problems. "The management has decided to cancel all flights on this sensitive day because of the possibility of complications or problems with the airline's infrastructure," according to company spokeswoman Monika Krajczynska. The same report mentions that national carrier Vietnam Airlines has cancelled all its flights just before the start of the Year 2000 and Indonesia's PT Garuda has indicated it might not fly on New Year's Day.

-- Old Git (anon@spamproblems.com), August 08, 1999.