Texts from beneath the Vatican...What do they hold

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I have heard that beneath the Vatican there are texts (not the Bible) dating back hundreds of years. I have also heared that these 'texts' are not allowed to be viewed by anyone but clergy. Is this so? If so - Why? Shouldn't all that material be avaliable to us so that we can learn from our past. anon.

-- anon (docdaz@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999

Answers

The texts contain the Pope's lottery numbers, and the clergy are only allowed to see them if they agree to join the syndicate. If everyone knew these numbers then the Vatican wouldn't be so rich etc...

That's enough buffoonery... I don't know. The Vatican has often been shrouded in secrecy - you only have to see its reaction to a insider whose forthcoming book threatens to blow the cover off a lot of corruption. This is a pity - the chap involved only wants to re-establish the integrity the RCC(the church he loves). Many of the devout Catholics on this site also see the need for a 'purge'. Read the question on Masons - there is no place for Masonic orders within any church and its absurd that such a question about compatibility should have ever been asked. It is a shame that many of the centres of the world's organised religions are shrouded in secrecy - what are they trying to hide? This sort of thing led to the Reformation...

-- Matthew (mdpope@hotmail.com), August 12, 1999.


I doubt that such things exist.

If the Church were a fraction as corrupt as people like to think it is, there would be no reason for its detractors to lie endlessly about it or invent lurid stories. But they always have, & still do -- it's amazing the crap that's still being written about the church by people who hate it. Always consider the source.

As for the old documents, they're probably just ancient shopping lists that no one bothered to toss. Most likely the Vatican is just a bit disorganized, as are most peoples' homes & businesses. We are talking about Italians after all ;->

-- just (a@visiting.cath), August 13, 1999.


The Vatican Archives are accesable to scholars who are doing research and are " closed " to the public as such. Imagine the destruction of wonderful historical documents. I shudder with the thought.

A fine book is " How The Irish Saved Civilization " which touches upon this topic. +Peace+

-- jean bouchardRC (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), August 14, 1999.


I didn't think so. No one I have spoken to seems to know either. This applied to church leaders as well. Is it just that what is hidden is better left undisturbed, locked away because the church is afraid to show whats inside? Or because what is hidden is so vile - due to the churches not so glorious past. Anyway I don't suppose we will recieve a reply from one of the Higher Ups. To busy.

-- anon (docdaz@hotmail.com), August 14, 1999.

First rule of dealing with rumors about the Catholic Church: remember that those who hate the Catholic Church have no compunction whatever about spreading the most vile, outrageous and incredible lies, as long as they are lies about the Catholic Church. It started with the Reformers four and a half centuries ago, and has not let up since.

-- Lane Core Jr. (elcore@sgi.net), August 14, 1999.


You may think it's all lies, but in Ireland the catholic church is utterly corrupt, staffed by perverts, many of whom are now serving long prison sentences for paedophile activity; and that is only the tip of the iceberg.

Over the centuries the catholic church has carried out abuses of human rights that put hitler, stalin, pol pot, et al, to shame.

catholicism and christianity are two of the worst perversions the human race has ever experienced.

-- John Anderson (forensics@eircom.net), January 27, 2001.


Dear John,

Could you answer a question for me?

To you, Who is Jesus Christ??

Susan

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), January 27, 2001.


My, my! ''Big John'' Anderson (Not John Gesik, Little John) has weighed in with his denunciation of the Catholic religion and Christianity in general. We have on forum tonight a defender of ''human rights''!

Good for you, Big John! Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot are so happy; you've put them on a par with the Catholic Church.

You, Sir-- are on a par with the Three Stooges, Beavis, and Butthead! But you aren't funny / What do you know about human rights, John? Were you in Belfast, when Catholic mourners were fired upon with automatic weapons at a funeral? By bigots such as you are?

Were you in the Cathedral in Canterbury when Thomas A' Becket was butchered by an English King's knights? Were you at Tyburn Hill watching Catholics testify to their faith with blood, just before being drawn and quartered? Were you in the Roman arena, when Catholics were herded in and fed to the lions?

No! You've been here eating high off the hog; watching TV, and 25 years ago probably smoking joints!

We need your opinion here like a chicken needs lips! Take your muck somewhere it's appreciated. Take it to your father the devil. He's the father of all lies, and you are a chip off the old block!

-- eugene c. chavez (chavezec@pacbell.net), January 27, 2001.


Eugene,

Remember: Jesus loving kindness is everlasting!

To John Anderson,

To you John, Who is Jesus Christ?

-- SSM (non-catholic follower of Jesus Christ) (heartwjesus@yahoo.com), January 28, 2001.


Anyone who wants to ask John Anderson a personal question (such as "To you, John, who is Jesus Christ?") must do so by private e-mail.
Mr. Anderson has grossly violated the rules posted by the Moderator, and is no longer welcome here to answer the above question or to leave any further posts. He is obviously an anti-Catholic bigot whose opinions and falsehoods are of no value to any Catholic here. Non-Catholic who find value in Mr. Anderson's comments are more than welcome to converse with him OFF the forum.

Even if Mr. Anderson were a civil gent, the question ("To you, John, who is Jesus Christ?") would be inappropriate on this thread ["Texts from beneath the Vatican...What do they hold?"]. That question, in my opinion, probably would be inappropriate if posed on any thread here, with the exception of one that is started with something akin to the very question itself -- "Who is Jesus Christ?"

St. James, pray for us.
Holy Mother of God, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jgecik@desc.dla.mil), January 28, 2001.



Forgive my spelling folks.I just wanna say "Well said!" to eugene is all.

-Al

-- Al (Big_Al@mydotcomaddress.com), December 18, 2001.


Actually, I ran across some posts about the Secret Archives in another forum.

http://www.vatican.va/library_archives/index.htm http://www.vaticanfacts.com/vat-yellow/archivesecr.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08061a.htm

But after reading these and other sites, it seems that the term "Secret" is not really valid. In fact, I am confused as to why it is named as such. It appears that these documents are available to some for research, just not the general public. As Jean Bouchard said 1 1/2 years ago, it is probably for the protection of the documents.

But I question why the Vatican refers to them as the Secret Archives. I believe this causes misconception and can be used by anti-Catholics as ammunition.

Any thoughts from others on this?

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), December 19, 2001.


Glenn,

It's been known for years that the Church has the secret to Earthly immortality as well as documents on the trilateral commission, proof of UFO's, and the cure for AIDS but just isn't releasing them out of selfishness and/or to retain power. Haven't you been keeping up?

Sheesh, I thought this was common knowledge! ;-)

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), December 19, 2001.


Frank,

Golly! No, I haven't been keeping up. I wish the Pope would have emailed everyone in the world when he released the information (or released the acknowledgement of what the hidden documents contained).

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), December 19, 2001.


Jmj

Hello, Glenn.

In reading about the Vatican, you probably have heard that there are a variety of bureaus (called "dicasteries") that comprise the pope's governing bodies -- i.e., sacred congregations, pontifical councils and commissions, a secretariat, etc..
Did you know that there is something called the "Apostolic Penitentiary?" The reason I mention this body specifically is to show that it is not what its name seems to imply. It is not a prison, but rather one of three Vatican tribunals (courts). The "Penitentiary" deals with matters in the internal (private) forum, the granting of certain pardons, and the subject of indulgences.

In like manner to the "Penitentiary," the Vatican's "Secret Archives" have a name that misleads a lot of people. We need to avoid fantasizing, thinking that the archives contain all kinds of deep, dark "secrets" about scandals and the like. Just as the Vatican's "penitentiary" is more related to the words repentance/penitence than to the word prison, so the word "secret" in the name of the Vatican's archives is more related to the Latin root of the word, which has a simple, non-sensationalistic meaning of "separateness." That is, the contents of the archives (historical and papal documents) temporarily remain separate and private, unlike "public" archives.

In my opinion, they would be better called the Vatican's Private Archives, rather than "Secret." They are "private" archives (1) in part for their protection (lest the valuable and unique items be lost/stolen/destroyed) and (2) in part to protect the confidentiality of living persons. The contents of the Archives are made available to legitimate researchers about 75 years after they are first placed in storage (under the assumption that the people involved have died).

St. James, pray for us.
God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.



John,

Thank you for your response. I had never heard of the "Apostolic Penitentiary" and would have immediately thought of it exactly like you assumed.

I didn't realize the 75 year archive seclusion you mentioned but it makes sense.

John, thank you very much. On the other forum, no one explained this in the detail you did and I felt unsatisfied with their answers. With your permission, I would like to copy and paste from your post so that others on that forum can feel confident the Vatican is not "secretive".

-- Glenn (glenn@excite.com), December 19, 2001.


Thanks, Glenn. You honor me greatly.
Not only are you welcome to copy-and-paste my earlier reply, but you are always welcome to copy anything I write here, without asking for my permission and without attribution. To God be the glory.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 20, 2001.

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