I can't believe the spin the Navy put at the Pentagon press conference. It is so obvious that the Navy was told to change their report. Look at the facts. The August 3 report was almost the same as Jim Lord's report that was dated in June. In two months very little had changed, but now all of a sudden in just two weeks the latest report was significantly toned down. Of course it was just a (coincidence) that it happened to be updated at the same time that the news media was coming out with a big story of all the possible failures. Also, the Pentagon held a rushed press conference at the same time Jim Lord's report was coming out in the news. Doesn't this look suspicious to anyone else? Looks to me like the Government and the Navy are the ones who are panicking. Does anyone have any proof to help expose this coverup or will the Government get away with this one as well?

-- Mark Hamilton (markhamilton@rtelco.net), August 21, 1999

Answers

Mark, we can debate the aspects of the "coverup" or "damage control" or whatever you want to call it, but you yourself underscored the most important issue: The actual meat of the report as of August is about the same as in June, and THAT is the terrifying reality.

-- King of Spain (madrid@aol.com), August 21, 1999.

To answer your question (wagging metaphorical finger)... no.

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 21, 1999.

Mark, if you want proof, forget it! The government controls access and content. Unless you had a 'mole' in the Navy Department, there is no way you will ever get confirmation of the true aspects of that report. I find it interesting that the reports being worked on by the Army and Air Force also disappeared from their public website. Should be interesting.

If you want something to get your blood really boiling and totally screw up your sleep.

Watch the O'Reiley Factor on Fox News at 1200 midnight Eastern time. Jonny Chung is on. I saw it on the early am show and it totally nauseated me what William and Hillary are doing under the auspices of the NDC.

Watch it!!! You will get the coverup from the guy that did it!!

-- Lobo (atthelair@yahoo.com), August 21, 1999.

Here I must agree with Andy. I don't think the truth will ever really be known, and even people without axes to grind will never agree on what happened, or on what was important, or what led to what, or whether y2k may or may not have been involved in one issue or another. Most of the contributions y2k makes to life in our future will never really be understood or quantified. Historians will disagree with the government's version, and with one another.

One thing I think can be guaranteed, however. If the whole truth could be known and told, Andy would deny it violently. Even if God did the telling (God is one of the power elite, after all).

-- Flint (flintc@mindspring.com), August 21, 1999.

You know, as much as I loathe those spinmeisters out there and want to run away to rural America, Y2K disaster or no Y2K disaster, one question keeps bothering me. Why would the utilities lie to the public, telling them everything is okay, but tell the Navy the truth, and admit that some of them are likely to suffer partial or complete failure? Why not lie to both parties? Also, while I find it unbelievably stupid that a fourth category wouldn't be added to the questionaire, we are talking about the government after all, or at least a portion of it. Stupidity by default. Lastly, in that CBS segment last night, two utilities officials were interviewed, one from Dallas (I think), and one from Orlando. Both spoke very convincingly about their faith in their particular systems, and what was different about these two was that they weren't suits. Slick they were not. They appeared to be hands-on manager types. They were very believable.

On the other hand, people here seem to have already forgotten that sameness in the utility press releases across the country not long ago. Remember the NERC orchestration of that particular bit of spin? One could argue that the utilities, the central government and the Navy are in cahoots, telling the sheeple one thing, while secretly re-enacting Escape From New York amongst themselves in preparation for the rolloever.

Man sometimes we are all just dogs chasing our own tails, doomers, pollies and centrists alike.

-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), August 21, 1999.

Mark, read this thread carefully

Interesting observations on the D.C. "Big Picture"

and then put it into context with your question "Will the government ever tell the truth about Y2K?".

You'll have your answer.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 21, 1999.

Flint - you're last statement has confused me. Surely you know that I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

This is my take - a possible scenario.

As you know I'm a 22 year IT veteran - and I'll be working over rollover at a major airline data centre in the USA. Yes - I have the chance to bug out with my gold eagles etc., but, in for a penny, in for a pound. I want to see what happens up close and personal so to speak.

I'll be watching y2k unfold via huge TV monitors as we track progress around the world - the USA mountain time will be one of the last places for the lights to go out after Sydney, Tokyo, London etc. :) [humour me] I'll also be talking to our outstations worldwide - it will be like the 24 heures du Man - no sleep for the wicked :)

If it goes Infomagic - we will never know the details, there will be no media, few radio stations broadcasting, collapse of governments, rioting, anarchy, plagues, you name it.

That's my big fear - apart from the Infomagic scenario - I will feel cheated, I won't ever find out EXACTLY what happened.

Bummer.

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 21, 1999.

Forget the report for a moment. The speed and completness of the response was amazing. Big guns, press releases and coordination and this from the federal government that acted as quickly as the internet. Lightspeed by their standards.

Fear can be a powerful motivator. They are afraid.

-- Mike Lang (webflier@erols.com), August 21, 1999.

Flint,

I get a little disappointed when you generalize on something important. Such as God telling Andy something. Which God are you referring to? I think Andy has discovered the posibility that there is more than one.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

CD

The utilities cannot run a real time test on their systems. If they did, and something went down (in this hot weather) We would have Y2K right now..

They are all searching as hard as they can for the date sensitive PLC's...But they are/must rely on the vendor's word. Because they cannot test the unit under real time. And they know that there are going to be a lot of the PLC's that are missed, for some of them were modified after coming onto the job site. Some of them where substituted for other makes, brands etc.

It is true, that there is a record of every embedd system installed in a power generation station. But the records are in the tens of thousands in number, is still on paper.

But the real test must be a real time, on line test...the kind that they cannot afford to run.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Shakey~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-- Shakey (in_a_bunker@forty.feet), August 22, 1999.

Mike,

As in a war situation, it is not the Army that reacts quickly, it is a General. In this case it was not the Government that took charge, it was Koskinen. And, as has been said on an EUY2K post, he is a brilliant manipulator of "perception." The guy's just good, really good. You have to give him that. Too bad we don't have a Prez that good.

-- Gordon (gpconnolly@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

Mike, you said "The speed and completness of the response was amazing. Big guns, press releases and coordination and this from the federal government that acted as quickly as the internet. Lightspeed by their standards." I have to disagree a bot. The Clinton adminstration has ALWAYS mounted a quick and usually viscous attack against anyone of thing that they perceive as damaging to their cause. Ie., Monica was known around the white house as a stalker" or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman... or "I tried it but I did not inhale," or "you can drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailor park" and get Paula Jones...ect, ect. I have learned by experience that the faster and more vigourously the administration or their lackies deny something, the more right on it is. I suggest that one view John Koskinen as the "Lanny Davis" of Y2K.

-- smfdoc (smfdoc@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

Shakey, so you're saying that not only can no one know for sure, not even the people in the absolute best position to know, with the most uptodate information there is available all at their fingertips, not even these people can make a credible educated guess? If they can't make a guess, then what I say holds true anyway, we're all a bunch of pups chasing our own tales.

-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

Whoops, didn't mean to make that pun, just a typo, but kind of an apropos one at that.

-- CD (CDOKeefe@aol.com), August 22, 1999.

"I think Andy has discovered the posibility that there is more than one."

Weeell, one God and lots of little "gods"...

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 22, 1999.

Have they told the truth about the Civil War (War Between the States), WWI, WWII, Korea, VietNam, Desert Storm? Have they told the truth about the Federal Reserve, the Income Tax? Have they told the truth about the President Kennedy and A.G. Kennedy assassinations? The Martin Luther King assassination? Have they told about the German officer emissary to Britain (Rudolph Hess, I believe) kept INCOMMUNICADO for LIFE in Spandau prison by the Brits because if he talked to the press he would blow the whistle on British machinations? Have they told us the truth about the fragility of our fraudulent money/credit/banking system? Have they told the truth about Whitewater, Vince Foster, Chinagate...?

Now do you think they are going to tell you the truth about anything important to you, now? (Hint: answer is NO!

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 22, 1999.

Mike, re: Fear>>>speed of response

Remember Back in December when the folks in charge were saying the problems may go for as long as two weeks? I remember hearing this from a Red Cross spokesperson on a radio show as well as TV interviews. 2 weeks 2 weeks 2 weeks In the blink of an eye came the 3 day storm. Why? At first I thought that there was a modicum of sincerity in their statement to give the public a reference to a similar experience of "roughing it," like a camping trip. Then came them the realization that either freezing in an apartment building is not like vacationing in a tent by the lake, or that "two weeks" may trigger a panic response they abhor: Obtaining provisions for two weeks would break the just in time inventory. Voilathe 3 day storm. Up until now, there has been no other rapid reaction. The speed of the response to the Navy survey was due to them being, as you said...very afraid. How fast will the Air Force and Army surveys be (re)posted? My guess is never, for the very reason that they would support the Navy results, not contradict them. They control the speed of the information "game" we are playing. Too bad we losers can lose so much. I think the only way the the public will be able to see and hear the truth is for multiple Navy Survey type bombshells to go off at once, and the spinners will fall over dizzy from damage control overload. The closer we get to the end, the more likely this is going to happen. Too Many deadlines are going to be crossed without results and the public will say enough is enough. At least I hope so. Pete

-- Pete (phytorx@lanset.com), August 22, 1999.

Gotta disagree with your last statement Pete - the public is too soft, lazy, docile, fat... they still wouldn't wake up with ten tons of TNT up their wazoo - it has to be something WILDLY DRAMATIC to wake the herd - maybe a market crash followed by bank runs, that's all I can see doing it - or nuclear war - or a "surprise" alien invasion/meteor hit - if the latter were to happen it would be the precursor to the NWO... :)

Hoagland is predicting three metors to hit on November the 7th, one in Manitoba, one in Siberia, one in the North Atlantic...

see the enterprise mission for details via www.artbell.com

***That*** might wake the herd up...

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 22, 1999.

Yes, but not for 50 years...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 22, 1999.

Andy: I see you check in w/ Bell and Hoagland sites. You heard of Zecharia Sitchin? He's got a half dozen "Earth Chronicles" books and maybe two, maybe three ? more. All about the "gods" of olden times. Where they came from. Why and how they genetically manipulated ape and god genes to make humans (The Adam).

I've read a few of them just recently (break from Y2K and work). If you know of them -- you know he leaves off "pr-Christ". Do you know of any extensions of his stuff through 1000 BC or so to modern times? I.e., where are the "gods" now? Did Yahweh wipe them all out? :-) Since they were very long lived (many multiples of 3600 years, I would think that otherwise a lot of them would be still around now, because it's only 3000 years since 1000 BC.

If they are still around, are they our secret rulers? [cue weird music here.] If you read Sitchin, who translates Sumerian and Babylonian tablets and Egyptian, Hebrew and Greek texts, he paints a picture of the gods that Klinton and our human rulers, past and present, have to work hard to emulate. "And I don't mean that in a good sense." :-)

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 22, 1999.

Andy: I see you check in w/ Bell and Hoagland sites. You heard of Zecharia Sitchin? He's got a half dozen "Earth Chronicles" books and maybe two, maybe three ? more. All about the "gods" of olden times. Where they came from. Why and how they genetically manipulated ape and god genes to make humans (The Adam).

####### Yes, read a bunch of his stuff and heard him speak several times. Also you need to check out Alan Alford - from England. Just finished his book - "the Gods Of The New Millenium" - it fits in with a lot of Zitchin and Chiappalone and Icke knowledge - he also has a web site. Also checkout Lloyd Pye. All are on audia archives at sightings and/or bell.

My comment above about Gods with a small g refers to the annunaki who IMHO did interfere with humanity (genes) in the past. David Icke believes that many of these alien races are still here on this orb and never left - that the Reptilian race currently holds sway - I would definitely recommend his last book "The Biggest Secret" #######

I've read a few of them just recently (break from Y2K and work). If you know of them -- you know he leaves off "pr-Christ". Do you know of any extensions of his stuff through 1000 BC or so to modern times? I.e., where are the "gods" now? Did Yahweh wipe them all out? :-) Since they were very long lived (many multiples of 3600 years, I would think that otherwise a lot of them would be still around now, because it's only 3000 years since 1000 BC.

####### See above re. David Icke. You might also want to read Dr. Joseph Chiappalone's website in Australia - you can hear him speak on www.sightings.com - he will answer a lot of your questions - best to start at the beginning to find out where he's coming from - Gnosticism. Do a search on chiappalone + anwwn (you'll get a lot of hits on an Italian porno star which pisses the good Doctor off no end :) ...)... If nothing else read his essay "The Terminal Madness Of The End Times"... #######

If they are still around, are they our secret rulers? [cue weird music here.] If you read Sitchin, who translates Sumerian and Babylonian tablets and Egyptian, Hebrew and Greek texts, he paints a picture of the gods that Klinton and our human rulers, past and present, have to work hard to emulate. "And I don't mean that in a good sense." :-)

####### I'b better shut up now... :) #######

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 22, 1999.

Andy: Printing this from the tin-foil tray on my printer. :-)
Seriously, thanks.

-- A (A@AisA.com), August 22, 1999.

A,

one last link - a mind-blower, make of it what you will,

http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/aliens.html

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 22, 1999.

Andy, may I suggest Gods from outer space by Eric von Daniken. He is also the author of chariots of the Gods.

-- maggie (aaa@aaa.com), August 22, 1999.

Yep - he was one of the pioneers (rumours that he faked some stuff) - but all their research seems to fit, thanks maggie.

-- andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), August 22, 1999.

Andy,

On page 64 it shows (in my opinion) the high density of atoms ,which make up matter, changing form. The picture shows a "man" changing as he comes down from space, mat ter into energy then back into matter.

-- maggie (aa@aaa.com), August 22, 1999.