looking for cheap and safe ideas for insulating the attic

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I'm looking for some cheap do-it-yourself insulation ideas. Materials that can be scavenged are a plus.

1. Ceiling of a house. (walls are brick with plaster and lathe.)

2. Ceiling and walls of a wood frame house.

-- robert waldrop (rmwj@soonernet.com), August 25, 1999

Answers

Robert,

Alot of people are useing shreaded newspaper in new construction. It is finely sheaded and " blown " in, it is flamable whereas fiberglass isn't unless paper backed. All insulation is, is " dead air space " Air doesn't transmit heat well, but it will transport it well. What that boils down to is, air that moves will rob you of heat, air that dosen't, won't.

If you were to paint the inside surface with a good latex paint ( sealing it ), wad up some old news paper ( hint: most places have dumpsters devoted to news print only ) and then cover with 6 mil plastic sheeting, you should get an R value of 10+ w/ 4 inches, 16+ w/ 6 inches, WAG, R-19 fiberglass is 4 inches thick.

The best thing, and cheapest thing is to weatherstrip everything and seal all drafts. Do the obvious, then use a candle to trace down what's left ( follow the flame ) Be sure to check all light switches, wall plugins, light fixtures, plumping inlets and outlets, etc. Most overlook this.

From a guy that has worked closely with the Bonniville power administration on their Super Good Cents houseing project, for years.

BTW,,that expanding foam in a can is wonderfull stuff,

-- CT (ct@no.yr), August 25, 1999.


The cellulose insulation (ground up newspaper) is treated with a fire retardant so it isn't a fire hazard, if you buy the commercially available stuff. It is blown in place with a large blower rented from the place you get the insulation. Sometimes loaned free if you get enough cellulose. Only problem is that it can settle in walls if not installed properly. Cardboard nailed or stapled in place helps. Our house had some exterior walls insulated with old cardboard boxes spread flat- neat old boxes from the 1920's. As already mentioned, fix the small leaks in the house first, and then insulate where you can. Attic insulation may be easier and more effective as a first place to insulate. Caulk, weatherstripping, foam sealant, and then add insulation.

-- Jim (jiminwis@yahoo.com), August 26, 1999.

I'm a builder who built Super Good Cents home for the whole time there was a Super Good Cents program. C.T. R 19 fiberglass has is approximately six inches thick. R-11 is about four. You can also get R-21 (hight density) for use in a 2x6 studwall (5 1/2 inches thick) and HD R 15 got s 3 1/2 inch thick 2x4 stud wall.

The preferred method of attic insulation, where you have an attic with enough space to work in, is blown in fiberglass. It's significantly cheaper than batts, and it also fills in all the little spaces--less voids than batts. Some also use blown in cellulose, as mentioned above. But this really needs to be treated with fire retardant. I personally would rather wrap myself up in warm clothes, and let the house be cold, than put a bunch of flammable material in myh walls or attic.

By the way, you windows are generally the area of a huge percentage of your heat loss. In addition to air leaks, windows have very low R values. Single pane windows have an R value of approximately 1. Two layers of glass separated by a 1/2" air space, about R 2. The windows which are required here in Oregon, (in most house designs) have an R value of almost 3.You'll get a big savings in heating requirements plus add a great deal of comfort by having good windows.n

There is a newish material, called Buckminster Fullerine (known affectionately as "Bucky Balls", which can be made into a transparent material with as much insulative value as fiberglass insulation. Unfortunately, no one is yet marketing this. When this happens, we will be able to increase the practicality of solar heating by a huge factor.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 27, 1999.


For what it's worth,

The fire retardant used on shredded newpaper (cellulose insulation) is Boric Acid sprayed as a water based solution, mixed thoroughly with the cellulose, and allowed to dry before installing as an insulation.

Probably be good to cut down on bugs that may infest insulation as boric acid powder is used as an insecticide.

Gerald

-- Gerald R. Cox (grcox@internetwork.net), August 27, 1999.


A light bulb went on when Gerald mentioned usingboric acid as a fire retardent. In auto racing before fire retardent materials were available, common materials could be made fire retardent by soaking in a boric acid solution made from common BORAX washing powder. As I recall the mixture used much more powder than you would ever use for washing and the materials (blankets, cover-alls, whatever) was allowed to dry.

I would think that a home-brewed BORAX-based fire retardent could be employed on newspapers or cardboard to be used for insulating work. I'm willing to bet that it would be cheaper to buy the BORAX and use it on free paper and cardboard rather than buying rolls or sheets of insulation.

WW

-- Wildweasel (vtmldm@epix.net), August 27, 1999.



Gerald, Wild Weasel,

Good ideas about boric acid and borax. I hope that whoever wants to save money by treating their own shredded, or crumpled, newspaper, will do some experiments with the finished product (like see what happens when you light it on fire) before stuffing their walls full of the stuff. It might work just fine; but it would be good to know.

If someone does this, would you please be so kind as to share the results with us?

Thanks, Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (al@ready.now), August 27, 1999.


Thanks for some very interesting and useful comments in this thread.

I am very intrigued by the possibility of treating shredded newspaper with a borax solution, and yes, I will do some experiments with this before stuffing my attic with it. I have boxes of borax in the pantry, and a huge supply of newspapers (that "never throw anything anyway if you can possibly avoid it" gene at work again).

I actually have two buildings to insulate: one is our dwelling and offices/work space. It is a 1920s brick/plaster & lathe walls, zero insulation anywhere. So as far as I know, unless I used some kind of rigid board insulation, with the walls i will just be able to deal with the leaks and drafts, but the attic can be insulated.

The second is an old wood frame house behind our dwelling that is no longer suitable for human habitation without a lot of work. So the concept here is to turn it into an indoor greenhouse, growing plants under lights so we can have fresh tomatoes and lettuce crops in January. If y2k turns out to be a Kahoutek, we still have tomatoes and lettuce crops and maybe a reproducible idea for a micro-enterprise/food security project that could be replicated in other poor neighborhoods (which tend to have a lot of old abandoned houses). Oklahoma winters are cold, so the concept there is to board up the windows with plywood. It has zero insulation, and the ideas here range from stapling newspapers/cardboard treated with the borax to the walls, to lining the walls with those little cheap "space blankets" or aluminum foil, perhaps first stapling bubble wrap onto the walls and ceilings. We don't have much money, and neither will those who would be replicating this project, so we are delving for ideas using scavenged/cheap materials.

So thanks for the help thus far. I hope this response maybe nurtures the conversation on a bit.

Robert Waldrop,

Archbishop Oscar Romero Catholic Worker House, Oklahoma City Got printable flyers for distribution during y2k disruptions?

-- robert waldrop (rmwj@soonernet.com), August 31, 1999.


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