A very sad story of a government out of control..............

WASHINGTON, DC -- If you refuse to give a job to a convicted child rapist and murderer nicknamed the "Halloween Killer," are you guilty of illegal discrimination?

That's the question currently being debated in Wisconsin -- and it shows just how ridiculous the government's anti-discrimination laws have become, the Libertarian Party said today.

"When it's against the law to discriminate against a human monster like the Halloween Killer, then the law itself has become a crime," said Steve Dasbach, the party's national director. "In an effort to stop discrimination, these laws discriminate against good sense, public safety, and the security of our children."

Within the next few weeks, Gerald Turner, who brutally raped and killed a 9-year-old girl after abducting her while she was trick-or-treating, will get a hearing before an administrative law judge in Wisconsin.

At issue: Whether a waste management center broke the state's anti-discrimination law by refusing to hire the Halloween Killer, who was recently released after serving 19 years in prison. The company argued that since students and boy scouts regularly tour the plant, hiring a child rapist was too dangerous.

A state investigator disagreed, and said there was enough evidence of "discrimination" to warrant a hearing. Wisconsin is one of 10 states that makes it illegal to even consider the criminal background of potential employees when hiring (unless the crime is substantially related to the job).

At the national level, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has also ruled that refusing to hire people with criminal records is a violation of federal civil rights laws. The EEOC once filed a lawsuit, for example, against a trucking company that declined to hire people who had been convicted of larceny.

But such anti-discrimination laws not only violate the right of free association and the responsibility of companies to make sensible business decisions -- they also place innocent people at risk, said Dasbach.

"Something is profoundly wrong when the Halloween Killer has the right to demand a job, but private businesses don't have the right to protect their employees and visiting children against a savage child rapist and murderer," he said. "Why does a child rapist have more rights than a law-abiding business?"

The way to resolve the case of the Halloween Killer, said Dasbach, is not to tinker with anti-discrimination laws, or make an exception for child rapists -- the solution is to abolish them entirely.

"Libertarians don't argue with the benevolent intent of such laws," he said. "But when you give the government the power to do a good thing, like preventing racists from discriminating against African-Americans, you also give it the power to do a bad thing, like expose innocent children to the Halloween Killer."

Dasbach acknowledged that advocating an end to anti-discrimination laws makes Libertarians susceptible to charges of racism. But the exact opposite is true, he said.

"Libertarians tend to be very tolerant, because we recognize that every person (no matter how different) has the exact same rights we do," he said. "However, we also understand that the only way to create a truly tolerant society -- with opportunity for all -- is by trusting Americans to do the decent thing, and giving them the freedom to do what is right."

A side benefit of such Libertarian-style tolerance, said Dasbach, is that the government would cease spending tax dollars to decide if private businesses should be forced to hire child rapists and murderers.

And for any politicians who are concerned about potential "discrimination" against monsters like the Halloween Killer, Dasbach said he has a suggestion: "If you think the Halloween Killer deserves a job, hire him to work in your own office. Just don't force other Americans to take that same risk."

-- Outraged (_@_._), August 30, 1999

Answers

work to change the laws,if you don't like them.The juditial system says when their time has been served,their debt to society has been paid.If you don't like it ,work to change it.Otherwise,you're an anarchist vigle-anti.Convicted and released sex offenders account for LESS THAN 1% of the sex offenders out there,little mother.So don't fool yourself,sex offenders are out there around your children right now.Statisticly,your innocent little child is at far greater risk of molestation from trusted friends and family than they are from released convicts.So quit freaking out over the symbol of the problem and start working on giving your children the survival skills they need to protect themselves.Most sexualy related child abuse is never reported because it's commited by TRUSTED FRIENDS OR FAMILY MEMBERS.For every Polly Klaas there are thousands of unreported children being molested because their parents taught them to fear some imaginary boogyman instead of prepairing them realisticaly.The truth is ANYONE could be the one who forever steals your child's innocence.Trust is for suckers.Wake up!!!

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

Why is it we are told.....

Be a DISCRIMANATING shopper.

When it comes to people we can't discriminate, we must be "tolerant". OH! I get it, houses, beans and auto's are more important than your life. After all you don't want to get stuck with a lemon of a car, so you must be a discriminating shopper, however if you try to keep the rif-raf out of your life by making discriminating choices about who you would associate with (personally/proffesionally) your a bigot. Brains man, brains

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 30, 1999.

There's a differance between people and things.I'm certianly not defending scum.I'm saying we can't just discard our criminal justice system when we encounter a flaw and revert to a mob mentality.We need to fix the problems,otherwise we're anarchists.Be wary of the notion that vigilante mobs are a good thing,one day you just might find yourself on the other end of one.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

Yet, if I hire someone with a criminal past, and he commits an act of violence here at work, we will be sued for "not conducting a proper background check". How does a company win this game???

-- Bob (bob@bob.bob), August 30, 1999.

More evidence that the world has gone completely insane.

Sometimes I picture God with his hand on the chain, about to flush us all down the cosmic crapper.

Can you honestly say we don't deserve it?

-- if it's brown (flush@it.down), August 30, 1999.

zoobie,

work to change the laws,if you don't like them.The juditial system says when their time has been served,their debt to society has been paid.

If that were true then everyone getting out of jail (with full term served, not on parole) would have all of their Constitional Rights returned to them, no? Well, last year I found out that MANY felonies (including drug-related) include a provision that prohibites the person, after release, from EVER VOTING AGAIN!!!

So much for having your debt-paid...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 30, 1999.

well,yeah,I believe everyone getting out of jail (with full term served, not on parole) should have all of their Constitional Rights restored,otherwise they should still be in jail.But,not being an anarchist,I have the choice to either work to change the system or accept it.Whinning and sniveling never does anything constructive and irritates those who have to hear it.

-- zoobie (zoovbiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

Sorry Zoobie. You are unfortunately assuming the system still works. It's broken, like the code is.

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the ba*t**ds."

Ever try to take on a corrupt Judge? I have. I finally settled for just leaving the State. Reality check my friend.

-- Will continue (farming@home.com), August 30, 1999.

will continue said"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

Mao Tse-tung said "all change comes at the end of a barell." Unfortunatly people aren't ready for that,so all we have is the system.I understand that there are no rich people on death row,but until the people are no longer enthralled by their televisions and pop tarts.We'll have to work with the broken system.When the time comes,I won't shy away from putting the bastards up against the wall.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

zoobie,

Forgot to mention that I think this is a result of big businesses fear of liability. If, for example, FEDEX hires a convicted (though now free) rapist to do deliveries, and he rapes someone else, you can bet the victims lawyer will say "FEDEX knew, or should have known, that this person posed a risk to their customers.". This way FEDEX gets to reply "We couldn't turn this person away because of their criminal record. It would have been illegal for us to do so..."

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 30, 1999.

Aren't there always other reasons that can be claimed in court for not hiring someone?Is a reason even needed?Honestly,I have a pretty low opinion of the litigious nature of corporate america.When the people are ready,we'll kill the lawyers and bankers(our slave owner masters),until then we must toil,work,and slave away in a system that should have been discarded long ago.Didn't Jefferson say the government should be overhauled every 20 years to prevent the power structure from becoming entrenched?And we actualy CELEBRATE the fact that we've had the same government for over 200 years?We call it a democracy when it's really a plutocracy one party pretending to be a two party.The french had revolution after revolution until they came up with something they found acceptable.Of course,that was after they could not afford the price of bread.So maybe we have a way to go.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

zoobie,

When the people are ready,we'll kill the lawyers

Lawyers serve a valid purpose in this society. If you have a serious injury and your insurance company refuses to pay your claim, who ya gonna call? A lawyer. If some big company dumped poison into your water supply, who ya gonna call? A lawyer. If you're falsely accused of a crime, who ya gonna call? A lawyer. And you'll be damn glad that they are there too.

It's not the lawyers who are to blame for the current f*ucked up nature of American litigation, it's the politician who PASS the laws they sue over. A lawyer can scream in court all he wants, but if the law says X and his case doesn't support X, then he loses his case.

Btw, what I think has been the MOST damaging thing to the American litigation system over the last 20 years has be the subjective nature of the laws passed by Congress. If I tell a dirty joke to one woman she might laugh and tell me one. Tell that same joke to a different woman and all of a sudden I'm guilty of sexual harassment. Compliment one woman on how nice she looks today and she'll thank me for the compliment. Compliment a different woman, and again, I'm guilty of sexual harassment.

Laws were NEVER meant to be subjective. The average citizen cannot comply with a law when violation of that law is based on the subjective determination of a single citizen. If you feel like you've been violated then, according to the law, you have been violated. If you feel like you've been subjected to 'emotional distress' then you have.

None of this is the lawyers fault. But the blame where it belongs, with Congress...

-TECH32-

-- TECH32 (TECH32@NOMAIL.COM), August 30, 1999.

The death penalty for this asshole, that's the answer. Since our pussy liberal government won't do it. We citizens need to put a bullet in his head.

-- Kill'em (gunslinger@pissed.com), August 30, 1999.

In whose head,my maniacal friend?

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

Call me what you will, but I still believe in freedom. Freedom to associate with whomever you please, or NOT. Freedom to hire whomever you please, or NOT. Freedom to think what you will, or NOT. Seem's like we're arguing symantics here. The bottom line is we are supposed to be free, this IS America isn't it? Why argue about degree's of seperation or levels of Gov. intervention in our lives, when the bottom line is that there should be NONE. Unless of course we want or accept a socialist/marxist Amerika.

Back in the US

Back in the US

Back in the USSA- No wait that's R

-- CygnusXI (noburnt@toast.net), August 30, 1999.

zoobie: "well,yeah,I believe everyone getting out of jail (with full term served, not on parole) should have all of their Constitional Rights restored,otherwise they should still be in jail."

Two word rebuttal: Lawrence Singleton

zoobie: "I have the choice to either work to change the system or accept it."

If were only that simple. Have you heard of Megan's Law? Do you realize what it took to bring that about? Sure, people 'worked' at it, but it took a girl dying a terrible death.

zoobie: "Whinning and sniveling never does anything constructive and irritates those who have to hear it. "

There is also something called outrage. Words can lead to a call of action. For a rousing example, watch/read Henry V.

zoobie: "Most sexualy related child abuse is never reported because it's commited by TRUSTED FRIENDS OR FAMILY MEMBERS.For every Polly Klaas there are thousands of unreported children being molested because their parents taught them to fear some imaginary boogyman instead of prepairing them realisticaly.The truth is ANYONE could be the one who forever steals your child's innocence.Trust is for suckers.Wake up!!! "

Sigh. You are (sadly) too right about this zoobie. But it helps to know who the convicted felons are. That they are alive to be monitored is another issue.

"Gerald Turner, who brutally raped and killed a 9-year-old girl after abducting her while she was trick-or-treating, "

Ellie Nessler had more balls than the men living in that area.

zoobie: "Mao Tse-tung said "all change comes at the end of a barell."

He would have known, since he was an infamous Butcher and Murderer of mind boggling numbers of his people.

The fact that this man can even file a suit after what he did proves that the system is not working.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), August 30, 1999.

what I was trying to say is,freaking out over the convicted/released sex offenders distracts us from the fact that there are MANY MANY MANY more sex offenders attracting NO-ONES rage because they're trusted friends and relatives.If we spent A TINY FRACTION of the energy we spend being outraged at convicted/released sex offenders (who are commiting a tiny amount of the TOTAL sex offences)on prepairing our children to be more aware of the reality of sexual abuse, what it is,how it happens,and more inportantly,who can do it (anyone)than maybe we can make a differance where it really counts.We need to get away from the paradigm that tv is the only reality.Putting the majority of our energy into freaking on the convicted/released offenders is mistaking the symbol for the thing being symbolized.You might indeed make the local news as a great mom and get that pervert to leave your town,and that will give everyone a false sence of security that the "bad guy" is gone,and more children will be hurt AND NOT TALK ABOUT IT untill they're in therapy years later.There is more going on than the high profile super-minority cases you see on television.For our children's sake,let's not get distracted.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), August 30, 1999.

I'm thinking of starting a company...and keeping the work force small (and mostly family!) just to allow selecting quality employees rather than being forced to take anyone who walks through the door. This is a good example of why I would take those steps.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), August 30, 1999.

"So quit freaking out over the symbol of the problem and start working on giving your children the survival skills they need to protect themselves.Most sexualy related child abuse is never reported because it's commited by TRUSTED FRIENDS OR FAMILY MEMBERS.For every Polly Klaas there are thousands of unreported children being molested because their parents taught them to fear some imaginary boogyman instead of prepairing them realisticaly.The truth is ANYONE could be the one who forever steals your child's innocence."

Zoobie, so right you are. But If I can help it, I'm not going to expose my children to an ESTABLISHED known molester/killer. Time served/paid debt to society is hogwash. A child molester is mentally ill, un-rehabilitable, and should at the very minimum be put away for life, let alone allowd to work. All sex ofenders should be castrated first, then let the justice system sort them out.

-- Chris (%$^&^@pond.com), August 30, 1999.