Russia Delivers Submarine to China

AP Tuesday December 29 12:02 PM ET

MOSCOW (AP) - Russia has delivered a new submarine to China - the second of the same class in as many years, a news agency reported Tuesday.

The Project 636 diesel-electric submarine, known as Kilo-class in the West, has sailed to Finland where it is being put aboard a cargo ship that will bring it to China, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.

A submarine of that class can carry 18 torpedoes and costs about $300 million.

In the past, China bought two submarines of an earlier version from Russia, ITAR-Tass said.

China has evolved as a major customer for the ailing Russian defense industry, also purchasing fighter jets, missiles and destroyers.

China threatens to use force to assert its claim of sovereignty over Taiwan. Its fleet of submarines, including advanced Kilo-class subs, would be key to enforcing a blockade of the island. Taiwan has just two modern submarines.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 01, 1999

Answers

"China has evolved as a major customer for the ailing Russian defense industry, also purchasing fighter jets, missiles and destroyers."

"China threatens to use force to assert its claim of sovereignty over Taiwan. Its fleet of submarines, including advanced Kilo-class subs, would be key to enforcing a blockade of the island. Taiwan has just two modern submarines."

This is just above the board Arms sales.

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 01, 1999.

The chinese also put in a order today for two nuclear submarines that are capable of hitting the u.s. with missiles...

Don't worry about it though. They are just so they can improve their fishing industry.

-- STFrancis (STFrancis@heaven.com), September 01, 1999.

off for crucial Khmer Rouge trial talks AFP Next Story: Myanmar junta's programs causing widespread hunger: rights group AFP

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Taiwan flexes air power muscle amid China's fresh military threat

KANGSHAN, Taiwan, Sept 1 (AFP) - Taiwan's air force put its most advanced fighters on display here Wednesday after Beijing repeated vows of its right to use force to reunite with the island state. Forty-seven military aircraft, including the French-made Mirage 2000- 5s and home-made Indigenous Defensive Fighters, flew in formation over Kanghshan to celebrate the 70th anniversary of the Air Force Academy.

US-made F-16s did not participate in the aerial display, but two of them were on diplay on the ground along with an E-2T airborne early warning and command aircraft, an S-70C anti-submarine helicopter, a C- 130 transporation aircraft, and F-5 fighters.

"Defensiveness and effective deterent is the supreme strategic principle (in dealing with China) for the moment," President Lee Teng- hui said at the end of the aerial display.

"How to put the air force's sophisticated weaponry into full play and ensure air superiority is the unshirkable mission of the officers and airmen," Lee said.

Lee also demanded better quality air force personnel stating "high- quality personnel is the crucial factor in improving combat capability."

The air force grounded all of its F-16s last month following the fourth crash since the jets were put into service in 1998.

"Flight safety must be thoroughly enforced if fighting capability is to be ensured," Lee said.

Tensions between Beijing and Taipei flared after Lee said in July he wanted "special state-to-state" relations with China.

China regarded the remarks as a shift away from the "One China principle," which was accepted by Beijing, Washington and Taipei and was the basis for peace in the region for decades.

Speaking in Beijing on the eve of departure for his first visit to Australia, Chinese President Jiang Zemin said China's preferred policy was reunification by peaceful means, but warned this needed the support of a military option to be effective.

"It is the shared aspiration of the entire 1.2 billion Chinese people to settle the question of Taiwan at an early date," he told The Australian's editor-in-chief David Armstrong and international editor Paul Kelly in Beijing.

"If China were to undertake not to use force, the peaceful reunification of China would become hollow words."

China has kept up a propaganda barrage to press Lee to back down from his statement that ties with the mainland should be on a "state-to- state" basis.

Hong Kong newspapers, particularly those close to Beijing, have been full of reports of Chinese troops on upgraded alert. Few have been officially confirmed however.

China has repeatedly said it would use force to stop Taiwan splitting with the mainland, which has considered the nationalist island a renegade province since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949. more to come...

-- Johnny (JLJTM@BELLSOUTH.NET), September 01, 1999.

The purchase of the kilo class sub is one of several subs purchased over the years and goes to the total of 51 subs in the entire fleet. This is a continuation of the technological build-up of the Chinese and goes with prior purchases of 40 SU-27 jets, which is similar to the F16 in performance. Of additional concern is the announcement in the last week that the Chinese have purchased 60 of the SU-30 jets from Russia. These are equal to the F15 eagle in performance and are used for theatre air control, just as we do in Iraq with our F15's. They are capable of qir to air refueling. These new jets, combined with the SU-27's, would be very able to control the south China Sea or the airspace around Taiwan if they set up a naval blockade to stop shipping. These developments, plus the increased meetings in the past several weeks, are not good news to Taiwan or the US if we wish to maintain control over the sea lanes in that part of the Pacific rim.

-- smfdoc (smfdoc@aol.com), September 01, 1999.

Just a note about the Kilo class diesel-electric boat: though looked down upon by our Navy, these boats are **very** hard to detect when they go electric.

Nuclear subs have a lot more "noise" on a lot more bands (sonic and electromagnetic) than electric boats.

And these boats are completely capable of launching underwater launched cruise missiles via their tubes.

Jolly worked in Fleet Electronic Warfare a *long* time ago.

-- Jollyprez (jolly@prez.com), September 01, 1999.

IFF everyone on board REALLY TRIES, these things go INVISIBLE or the next best thing to it, or so I'm reliably informed by a current "ears".

C (IFF=IF and Only iF)

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), September 02, 1999.

Very interesting. Thank you for the info. Good comments ALL.

As I have mentioned on this forum many times before, God has shown to me in a prophetic dream (1993) China sailing up to the coast of California (where it didn't belong), all decked out for war, and proceeded to launch underwater missiles that became airborne at American cities.

In another (prophetic) dream in 1996, a tremendous roar and shaking caused me to look up. When I did, I watched a mushroom cloud, apparently some distance away, go up...and up... and up until I finaly remembered to look down around me and noticed that people were running in terror in all directions.

But remember, as you prepare for Y2K, just prepare for a 3 or 4 day winter storm ... or something. Or so the president and his henchmen would have you do. But I say, January 1 will be just door openers for Pandora's visitation on this nation. America has ceased calling on God's protective hand so He will withdraw it.

Thanks again for all the above comments/posts. Unfortunately, my worst fears are being slowly confirmed, piece by piece like a puzzle. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us a wicked people.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), September 02, 1999.

Just a note about the Kilo class diesel-electric boat: though looked down upon by our Navy, these boats are **very** hard to detect when they go electric.

Coincidentally, I just finished reading 'Nimitz Class' by British techno-thriller novelist Patrick Robinson. The scenario here is exactly what you are talking about--a rogue Kilo class Russian sub is hired by Mideastern terrorists to take out an American carrier, and succeeds by a combination of luck and the skill of the commander. Despite the web of defenses deployed by the carrier group, the sub penetrates them all mainly due to the fact that it is virtually silent at low speeds. One nuclear-tipped torpedo later --no more American carrier. Could it happen? It certainly seems plausible.

-- Tom Knepper (thomas_knepper@intuit.com), September 02, 1999.

This is very very old news. The AP story has a date of Dec 29, l998. Give us a break.

-- thinkIcan (thinkIcan@make.it), September 02, 1999.