Most of us have been told to try to keep our preparation efforts low key even while we're trying to encourage others to prepare. If things do turn sour, how do we (or should we even) keep a low profile about being prepared? It will soon be obvious to our neighbors that we're not panicking, starving or bugging out. Keeping covers over the windows to block light from the outside is easy to figure out. But in the spring, when you're gasing up your roto tiller to put in your garden, or you're still able to water your animals and you're looking fairly healthy, it's going to be obvious that you have something they don't.

I want to be part of the rebuilding process, I want to help my neighbors, but I also want to keep a low profile to avoid being a target.

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 11, 1999

Answers

Kimberly

Suppose you were on a vacation trip with 30 people you didn't know and suddenly the bus you were on skidded of the road in a remote area, killing a few people, injuring a few, and leaving the rest cold and stranded. In this situation, don't you think most people would do all they could to help the group get through? If you were the only one with matches would you hide them until you could build a fire only for yourself.

If y2k causes a massive upheaval in early January (grid down, banks closed, phones out, etc.) then to many people it will seem like the situation I just described. In this case, I think you will earn a lot of respect with your neighbors if you are able to join together...your advance knowledge of the situation will make you an important leader.

I live in a small town of 50 houses but out in the country. My plan is to do all I can (need) to help direct neighbors (the nearest 5 or 10 houses) but the terms will be if I help them, they agree to help others. The primary others to help are the other 40 houses (priority to families with children).

If y2k turns out to be more of a slow breakdown (over several months) where ever more goods and services get short and the nightly news continues to report on y2k like they did Monica and O.J. Simpson, and the economy is spiraling down, then it seems best to lay low if you can...be just a step ahead of others psychologically.

By the way, by the time you need your rotor tiller, if things are still bad then your best plan is to let neighbors use it after you and share some of your seeds, so that they can have a garden too.

I think the people who will be resented are those who try to take advantage of the situation financially (buying luxury homes, cars, etc. for pennies on the dollar).

If you have resources left, consider approaching a neighbor who you like to start a business together. For example the guy next door to me drives 18 wheelers and his wife listens to the police scanner all the time. If I see a way to take some of my resources to start up a little company for secure regional transportation letting him drive, what can it hurt?

There's a nice lady down on the corner who has a small grocery store but she lives mainly off the summer tourism in our town. Maybe sometime in 2000 or 2001 I can quietly become a silent partner in her business.

Watch your neighbors, be a better neighbor but just a little better. Be willing to help out people get back on their feet.

-- Thom Gilligan (thomgill@eznet.net), September 11, 1999.

Well said Thom,

I am reminded of the stone soup story and will not repeat it here. You know the one. Sometimes it just takes someone to lead to get people thinking and acting together and solving problems together.

Be that person.

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), September 11, 1999.

Thom, I agree with everything you said and I hope I didn't come across as being selfish or uncaring. I guess I worry a bit more than I should with our neighbors because it's obvious that we're already resented by a few of them. Not because of what we have, but because of what we appear to NOT have. Ours is a very modest farm house that has been surrounded by fairly large, expensive new homes. Most of our neighbors treat us as though we're the "poor folks" on the road and I guess I worry about how things will be when the tables seem to turn a bit. I know that this could be an opportunity to turn "enemies" into friends, but it's possible that they could wind up resenting us too, how do we avoid that?

Also, I worry about more than just neighbors. I worry about those who will have no qualms about taking what they want. I really don't believe that I have it in me to take another's life just to protect my stuff and would rather do what I could to make myself less of a target.

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 11, 1999.

Kimberly,

Your going to have to find a way to reach out to some of those neighbors. I suggest that you do so only if things really go bad. If it's a slow spiral down the help and associations can be built slowly and all should be well.

If it's a quick drop off a big cliff then you will not have as much time but the collection of neighbors will be more important. You will want to be indispensible to them. You want them to think of you as a valuable resouce and not a target. As a group they rapidly develop accountability with each other and peer pressure will not allow one to break ranks to take advantage of you and risk the wrath of the others. (does that make sense?)

You will need all the eyes arms and legs that all of you can muster to keep your little section of the world intact. The operative word here is little. If you try to help to many you may all sink together. Only you can determine the right number. Their location and relation to your house may also be important and you may want to consider this as well in determining who to help. Is there a "choke point that limits access to you neighborhood and who is there to control it? I hope you get the idea.

As an example here in the country there are 4 families within half a mile of me. Each on a small acreage, some with cattle, some with horses, some with corn, some with orchards. This will be my core group. None see Y2K coming yet, but I have stuff for them all if it does go bad. You need people to watch the crops and animals against thieves and looters etc. The older ones will need help in cutting wood for fuel, I think you get the idea. (I keep saying that, must be my brain fading)

You sound a little more densly packed than me. Youll be thinking of sources of water and how to move it? Neighborhood protection and intensive gardening? Just guesses here. But all things done better as a group than alone.

There is safety in numbers. One by himself will be cold Two will keep warm. A three strand cord is not easily broken.

-- LM (latemarch@usa.net), September 11, 1999.

Thanks Thom, you've given me a lot to think about. I do live in the country, about 4 miles from a town of about 30,000. Some of my neighbors have horses too, but most of them are yuppie types who won't have many resources.

Anyway, you mentioned something I hadn't thought of and that's putting back some things to help them be of help to the group as a whole. I guess at the very least I should put back more seed and garden tools!

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 11, 1999.

Kimberly, When Y2K arrives I would be very careful around these people.I wish you had better people around you,good farm folk who don't look down on you.I would think the yuppies will be seething when the time comes,they are use to a very comfortable life.It's probably too late to move,I would recommend keeping to yourself for a few days after the rollover.If your neighbors seem despondent,then try to make friends with the least hostile of the bunch and offer one or two suggestions if they are receptive.The group's attitude toward you should shift if you are helpful but don't seem to be lording yourself over them. On the other hand if they are seething with resentment,do you have family or friends you can go stay with?

-- Stanley Lucas (StanleyLucas@WebTv.net), September 12, 1999.

If your neighbors are as yuppie as this thread makes them appear, then perhaps it will be them who will bail out for another location, and not yourself having to consider this option. I don't think leaving the home where you have prepared and have the capacity to grow food is a wise move. Have you talked with any of your neighbors? Maybe a few of those yuppies have 5 years of MREs in their basements. You never know. I do think that after an initial shock period has elasped that most people will be realistic enough to work together. Stereotypes tend to evaporate in emergencies.

-- Shelia (Shelia@active-stream.com), September 13, 1999.

We live in a mostly rural location. I'm trying to get to know the nearest neighbors...because we will have to pull together to accomplish much of anything. I've bought extra chickens...so I can give/trade them eggs when things get tight. Very little cost to me, extra protein for them...and probably a lot of good will.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 13, 1999.

Kimberly, the horses could be very useful if they survive. If things get to the point that horses are useful, there will very likely not be food for them and they may well be regarded as food by desperate people. Suggestion? Store grain for horses, if possible, and store as much as you can for their owners. Pray it doesn't get that bad.

-- T the C (tricia_canuck@hotmail.com), September 14, 1999.

Response to Thom's response: "Suppose you were on a vacation trip with 30 people you didn't know and suddenly the bus you were on skidded of the ... In this situation, don't you think most people would do all they could to ... If you were the only one with matches would you hide them..." I keep hearing this same "apples to oranges" comparison. How about: "Suppose 30 people were going on an extended trip and were cautioned for two years in advance that the trip could be very dangerous. They would be traveling during Winter through a remote, desolate country with little or no assistance available should there be an accident involving their 40 year old, poorly maintained, bus. All preparations for this trip should be made using one of the detailed supplies lists available. You plan accordingly but can only afford enough supplies to allow you and your children to hike out if the accident occurs. If you make it you could send help back. You contact the other 29 and repeatedly advise them to prepare likewise. They think you are nuts and take only their bathing suits and disposable cameras. If you know this in advance, do you plan to go for help? Or do you simply plan to be a good samaritan and sacrifice your family's lives so the unprepared won't think you selfish? I think the selfish are the ones who will not give up a few months of 'lifestyle' and plan to take from those who struggled to save their own familes. I am not wealthy. Not even middle class. Yet my wife and I have lived like hermits and dedicated 80% of our combined income for over a year in trying to prepare for our immediate family. Our preparations are just enough to keep us alive for what we perceive to be the length of the coming crisis. Now the rest of our circle of family/friends think we are nuts. The media say "3 days at worst". So we should toss our 1400 hours of research and divide up our goods into "3 day" kits and give them to the sheeple, just because thats how long Katie Kuric says it will last? I'm sorry but if anyone is going to be here to rebuild; they will have to have the courage and strength to do whatever it takes to survive. Even if it offends the sensitivities of those who think a welfare state is the best form of civilization. For those that do survive, I think the lessons learned from this will be a refresher in how this republic was formed and the kind of people it tool to do so. I hope this thing is not a 9 or 10. I hope my whole family is here next year to tease the family kook for his preparations. But meanwhile I still prepare. And for the rebuild I am obtaining all the relevant documents that were used to found this country. When people ask "where do we start?" We'll start with the original documents and try to improve.

-- Dennis (b01d10w51@mindspring.com), September 14, 1999.

Re horses. They have several advantages...

(1) Do not require gasoline/petroleum fuel.

(2) Self-fixing (to a degree).

(3) Self-reproducing (no need for a factory).

(4) Produce by-products useful for agriculture or mushroom growing.

(5) Edible (You've not had filet of foal?).

Your yuppie neighbors may be more GI than you thought.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 15, 1999.

Dennis,

SOMCSMFCVL at your post!!!! translated: Standing On My Chair Stompin' My Feet Clapping Very Loudly!!!!!!

-- xxxxxxx (noyuppies@here.com), September 17, 1999.

We live in the Forest. Everyone around here has their own well. Everyone around here does not have a generator. Some of my neighbors are widows. Most of the people here are not at all concerned about y2k. But we realize that if its bad, we will need some help from the neighbors and in turn are willing to give help. Here is our plan. We have a 40kw generator and 2000 of diesel. We certainly can pump water with power. However, we are at this moment have in well drilled that will house a deep well pitcher pump. The neighbors will be free to come in and fill their jugs at POSTED TIME. Like anyone is wlecome to come between 10am and noon. I figure this is a good way for neighbors to get to know one another. (sort of like around the water cooler or the copy machine at work). Figure the men will give the widows a helping hand with their jugs and it will GIVE US A CHANCE TO ASSESS THE NEIGHBORS. The other thing that I have done for neighbors is to collect lots of open pollinated seed for gardens. And since we have a tractor with a good rototiller on behind, and we have the diesel fuel, hubby will till them up a garden space. In return we expect their respect and some protection for their water supply. Hubby also has a very well equiped shop (hooked to the 40 kw genset) where he can fix things for people. Down in the woods behind us is a shade tree mechanic, the guy across the road just bought a JD tractor, and the y2k family next door has a Kubota. All are preparing and we will stick together. If things start going bad in December, I am going to host a speghetti dinner for the neighbors that are preparing and just sort of hash out the "what if" scenarios. Any more ideas? There are a lot of elderly people in the area that can contribute nothing, but maybe some cash. There are some young struggling couples with children that more than likely can contribute some labor and lots of hungry mouths.

Taz

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), September 17, 1999.

I also wanted to comment re the "other side". Wouldn't it be wonderful if you really got to know your neighbors and you all survived and came out the other side with some new skills such as food production/preservation? I can think of so many wonderful things that we may all learn to do. And at the top of the list are RESPECT AND SHARING. Many of us have useful skills. I can spin and weave and have excellent animal skills and some medical skills. MIL has an old treadle Singer that still works and she knows how to use it. Hubby can build or fix anything from the broken arm on my rocker to tearing a D8 cat apart or a Kenworth truck. And has the tools to do it all. One neighbor has a little machine shop in his back yard and supplements his retirement with it. Another has a large shop too. We could all end up REALLY being in better shape than we are now. The Waltons had it pretty good...some pretty good values in that family. Wouldn't hurt this country to get a "fix" of values and ethics, in my opinion.

Taz....

-- Taz (Tassie@aol.com), September 17, 1999.

Panic and real disaster will probably be in the first 3-4 months of the year. You might want to keep your head down during those months. But you will also need the support (perhaps read: "overlapping fields of fire") of your close neighbors. Therefore, you need to cooperate with them. Hopefully, you have already established contact with them and broached the idea that Y2K may not be a BITR. If not, do it today, even if you do it obliquely (indirectly). We have deliberately overprepared on some of the basics to be able to share with closest neighbors. The cost is minimal. The potential payoff is major. There is a definite economy of scale to preparation.

If things get really bad, every seed will be precious. I will be starting the seeds individually in early spring, and sharing the "starts" with friends and neighbors. We should be able to maximize our gardens that way. I'm also storing enough fertilizer to share for the first year. After that, the (16) chickens will be producing enough for a small community.

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), September 17, 1999.

This string is flowing really well with some real great ideas...it seems that by and large a lot of people who are preparing are understanding that they need to do what they can to help others.

I too have turned my life upside down to be ready and sometimes I feel like a fool when 99% of the population doesn't seem to care. Actually, I think a lot of people care, they just think they still have time.

I purposely moved the family to a small town out in the middle of a cold winter area. The cold is like the hand of death, just waiting to reach in and take lives...there is no room for foolishness. When the elements are killing people there is no room for envy. When April rolls around, there will be many willing hands to lay on shovels...like others who "get-it" we have seeds. Seeds grow much faster than stock portfolios (I planted 12 squash plants this year and now have hundreds of seeds).

Before I gave up my Yuppie Job, the collective effect of taxation was that almost 50% of my income was given back as taxes. In a 7,8,9, where Government is unable to tax the few who still have documented work, I have taken the attitude that since I am not paying those taxes, it is reasonable that close to half of our stored goods are used locally to feed the family of the Sherriff who lives about 6 houses down, or the other young families with children whos fathers are good mechanics (and like to hunt). Stored food needs also to be cooked, and eating together is a great way to unify people. Dishes need to be washed, children still need to be tucked into beds. And songs need to be sung together...When the furnace is low on fuel, a few extra bodies keep the house warmer...

I once learned that if you are put into a "survival situation" it is good to light a fire. Even if you do not need the warmth (like in summer). There is something about the infrared heat which calms the mind. Haven't you ever noticed how quiet some people get when they sit and watch flames? We have a nice living room for watching fires...isn't it better to invite neighbors in to "think" with us? I might even convince some of them to bring along wood each time they come. Another might bring a bottle of whiskey...not for the value but for the sake of sharing something. How much better will coffee taste around that fire? How much better can neighbors think when they know that at least tonight the kids are sleeping warm in the next room? If we're lucky, the kids will remember it as a slumber party.

I don't plan to give it all away. Part of it may be "given" but done so to establish my family as generous and kind...someday we may need a favor returned. Others will be able bodied and willing to work (putting in new vegetable beds is hard work). Others may have something to give me ( I really would like to get an "almost new" lawn mower/tractor).

We will all have to use our intuitions to find the balance between laying low and getting involved...both have risks. Each situation is different...each tree bends the wind a little differently. We are a society of thrill seekers (using technology to skydive, bungie jump, etc.) Could there not be some thrill to this?

If y2k turns out to be a big mess, then I will surely be able to lay on my deathbed (hopefully many years later) and know that I did something important.

-- Thom Gilligan (thomgill@eznet.net), September 17, 1999.

Whoa, I think some of you really MISinterpreted my question. I wasn't saying that I didn't want to help my neighbors out. I would love it if they would be open to us helping them and possibly build some stronger friendships. It's just that at this point, a lot of them are looking down their noses at us. Several of them have moved from a very upscale suburb just because they thought the schools were out of control. They don't participate in the community at all, this is just where they live. They have built $250,000+ homes around our small farm house and barn and don't care for the way our house looks next to theirs. They have even taken us to court over our dog being on their property.

My point/question is... if these people seem to resent us now and treat us like we're invisible or that they're so much better than us, then how in the world do we make them receptive to our help. I'm very worried that they'll resent the fact that our roles may have reversed and that they are now at somewhat of a disadvantage.

Not all our neighbors are like this, the couple who own horses are very down to earth and are very likely preparing. I loved the advice someone gave about storing horse feed back for them, just in case.

Anyway, I just wanted to point out that we are NOT planning to save ourselves and let everyone around us die. I was just worried about keeping a low profile in case they became aggressive.

-- Kimberly Hott (ckhott@urec.net), September 20, 1999.