Ajax players in Oranje (Dutch National team)

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-- Anonymous, September 13, 1999


Well...3-1...the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and all is well in the world!

"Deutschland, Deutschland....alles ist vorbei!"(*) as the 7,000 Dutch fans sang!

(*) roughly translates to "Germany, Germany, it's all over!"

-- Anonymous, November 21, 2002

1:3 Final. Great for the Oranje! It also appears that Rafi-gol came thru his action okay. He played in the 2nd half as Menno rightly surmised he would.I couldn't find anything re:whether Andy van der Meyde's participated in the match.

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

1:3 on a goal scored by Ruud van Nistlerooy.Seedorf set it up.No joy in Krautdom today.AWWWWWWWW!!;-)

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

Rafi-gol to JFH...GOAL!! 1:2 on 69'.

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

:-(...1:1 . Bobic drew the B-Stealers level on 32'.

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

Bicycle Thieves 0: Oranje 1. Eurosport says David's freekick was turned in by Kluivert on 22'.

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

Less than 30 minutes to go 'til kick-off of the friendly between Germany and Oranje in Gelsenkirchen, Germany, at 20:00 hours Central European Time. Here are the line-ups of the sides, as they were just revealed by the coaches:

GERMANY: Kahn; Frings, Baumann, Rehmer, Friedrich; Schneider, Jeremies, Ballack, Böhme; Bobic, Klose.

HOLLAND: Van der Sar; Ricksen, Stam, Frank de Boer, Zenden; Seedorf, Bosvelt, Cocu, Davids; Makaay, Kluivert.

So, no Van der Vaart and Van der Meyde in the line-up. Advocaat has agreed with Koeman and Van Gaal that the Ajax and Barcelona guys (who have a second round in the Champions League ahead) will play only one half. I think he will do the same thing with the others who are in the second round of the CL (Seedorf with Milan, Makaay with Deportivo). So Raffy and Van der Meyde will probably be brought on in the second half.

For the latest score and match details, check this page on NOS Teletekst.

-- Anonymous, November 20, 2002

Rafaël van der Vaart and Andy van der Meyde are the two Ajacieden selected by coach Dick Advocaat for Wednesday's prestigious friendly between Holland and Germany, to be played in a sold-out Arena Auf Schalke, home ground of FC Schalke 'o4 in Gelsenkirchen, Germany.

For news about the squad and the game, chack out the Oranje News in English page on KNVB.nl, the official website of the Dutch F.A.

-- Anonymous, November 17, 2002

Very happy with the Dutch blasting of Austria 3-0 in Vienna yesterday. Finally Clarence Seedorf is back in the Orange shirt, and back with a bang scoring one and setting up another.

I was really beginning to worry about why Advocaat had not been selecting Seedorf up until now. His performances for Inter Milan were good last year while his new home, city rivals Ac Milan have been spectacular this year. I have seen him play a couple of matches for the Rossoneri this season, and he has been in top form, reminding of his times with Real Madrid.

Seedorf has a lot of class and experinece. He should be playing at this level all of the time.

Holland's rivals will definitely be the Czech Republic. If they play to the capabilities Holland should get it done. Holland has superior talent and ability.

Go Holland!

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2002

Convincing win for Holland. I must say they played Austria off the park for 90 minutes. The only thing: they should have scored more goals. The 0-3 score was established after 29 minutes. They should have doubled the score in the remaining hour, but instead switched to a lower gear.

The first goal by Clarence Seedorf was a true beauty, after a backward 'heel pass' by Patrick Kluivert. The latter was, without a doubt, Oranje's MOTM, although he didn't score. But his thru-passes were countless.

Quite honestly, though: Austria are crap. A very weak them. No special qualities whatsoever. Which means the Czech Republic is basically the only real opponent, and it's also a fair conclusion that Holland is in a rather weak (easy) group. I thought their World Cup 2002 qualification group wasn't that tough, either, but they fucked up. But believe me, the Czechs are weaker than Portugal and Austria is definitely more harmless than Ireland.

I think the Czech Republic will not lose many points, either. Which means that the two Czech Republic vs Holland clashes are very important. A win in the home game is a must for Holland.

-- Anonymous, October 17, 2002

Clarence Seedorf certainly rewarded Dick Advocaat with a fine effort.One goal, a hand in a second, and at least one or two other chances or half chances. He was one of six Ajacieden who played on the day: E-Z Edwin van der Sar, Frank DeBoer, Edgar Davids,Seedorf, Patrick Kluivert(all starters) and...horns and drumroll please... Ronald DeBoer,who subbed in for about a quarter of an hour or so.Nice to see Ronald back on the international scene. Next up, a March 29th DeKrap date with Tomas Galasek's Czech Republic and an April 2 away tie in Moldova. The Oranje lead on a +2 goal difference. The Oranje have scored 6 goals in their 2 wins while the Czech Republic have scored 4 goals in their two wins.

-- Anonymous, October 16, 2002

Oranje kicking Austrian ass . . .

3-0 for the Oranje at the half - Seedorf ('15), Cocu ('20) and MaKaay ('29)


-- Anonymous, October 16, 2002

If you wanna stay informed, this your place to be: the Oranje News in English section on the official KNVB website.

-- Anonymous, October 14, 2002

Some Oranje team news, from NOS Teletekst. Man-Ure's Ruud van Nistelrooy has left the Holland squad. His hamstring injury is too serious. The central forward will not join Holland to Vienna, Austria, today. Coach Dick Advocaat will not have a stand-in along. He wants to do the job with his current squad. It seems like Holland will play with Roy Makaay, who's in excellent form and scoring like a madman for his club, Deportivo La Coruna. He is expected to start for Holland, alongside Patrick Kluivert.

As usual, the central forward positions are not the problem for Holland, even without Van Nisterooy, since pee-air van whoredonk and Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink are also in the squad.

-- Anonymous, October 14, 2002

That's right, Bill.

Dickie Advocaat doesn't need them to beat Austria anyway. Those folks are very easy-going. They just allow you to invade your country without firing a single bullet - and take charge.

Ask Germany... ;-)


-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

I agree 100% with the school of thought that says no current Ajacieden in the Oranje squad away to Austria is a good thing.The injuries and illness and the need to get the squad fit by the 19th and the 22nd FAR OUTWEIGH the need to play in a match the Dutch should win. Heck, Austrian coach Hans Krankl has already said his squad have no shot. Admittedly, this may come down to nothing more than psychology and downplaying expectations. Just the same, he did say it.At any rate, the squad will still have a distinct Ajax flavor. van der Sar, Frank de Boer, Michael Reiziger, Clarence Seedorf, Edgar Davids,Ronald De Boer,and Patrick Kluivert see to that.

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

Dont talk too soon Rudy as wars have the habit of dragging innocent forums into it. In fact I am very surprised that the Midoists and Zlatanists (no preference there in mentioning their names in that order - placed in that order on alphabetical rules) havenot complained that their guys shouldnt be snubbed by the Oranje.

With regard to Ajax players involvement in Oranje and other national teams, I personally would prefer them not to play these extra games at present so that they are fresher and hopefully injury free for the important Ajax games ahead.

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002


You speak as an England/Ajax fan.....;O)


P.S. Nice and quiet here....outside the Mido v. Koeman warzone...eh?

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

Thank goodness for that Rudy - at least we cannot lose another player whilst away on international duty.

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

Number of Ajax players in the Oranje squad for the game on Wednesday v. Austria.........NONE.

Number of Eredivisie based players in the squad....four.


http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml? type=worldFootballNews&storyID=1544880

-- Anonymous, October 09, 2002

I just read ,on the AT5 website for those interested in reading the article, that the funeral for His Royal Highness Prince Claus will be Tuesday ,October 15; or one day before the scheduled match between the Oranje and Austria.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Some of you may have heard that His Royal Highness Prince Claus, husband of the Dutch Queen Beatrix, passed away yesterday night at age 76. His death did not come as a surprise. The prince's health has been bad for several years now. He suffered from Parkinson Disease and has spent most of this year in hospital. He was a very popular men with the Dutch people.

Anyway: the death of Prince Claus has made it uncertain whether the Dutch national team will play the Euro 2004 qualifier in Austria on Wednesday, 16 October. The day of the match will almost certainly the day of the prince's funeral. It is up to the Dutch RVD (a kind of Royal Public Informations Service) whether the KNVB will be allowed to represent the country in a sports event on that day.

I'm not sure what will happen if the the RVD will not allow *Oranje* to play. What will the UEFA do? Does that mean it will be an administrative defeat for Holland or something? Or will the UEFA understand and find a new date?

No idea what will happen. It is, by the way (Bill, do you copy?), highly unlikely that the Eredivisie games of 19 October will be postponed or cancelled due to the prince's funeral.

-- Anonymous, October 07, 2002

Oranje win 3-0 with JFH getting the last one after coming on for a disappointing RVN. I read that Rafael picked up a knock after coming on in the 70th minute and was substituted. Any word if it's serious?

-- Anonymous, September 07, 2002

The final whistle has just sounded. Holland 3, Belarus 0. Third goal scored by Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, only minutes after he had replaced Ruud van Nistelrooy.

I only saw the final 25 minutes of the game. I was, of course, happy to see Holland win in decent style, and it was also good to see that they were determined.

For Ajax fans however, there are reasons to be worried. Some 20 minutes before the end, Rafaël van der Vaart was brought on for Edgar Davids. He was involved in Holland's fine third goal (good run and pass by Van der Vaart, superb little thru-pass by Kluivert, smart finish by Hasselbaink). But Van der Vaart was fouled a few minutes later. He looked very worried about his knee and actually did not return on the pitch. He played for only 10 minutes.

This did not look good...

In the final minutes of the game, the second young Ajacied, Andy van der Meyde, also seemed to be in pain. With a painful frown on his face, he kept rubbing over his right shoulder (collar bone, apparently). So it seems that both Ajacieden on the pitch sustained an injury, sadly enough when it was already 3-0 and it didn't really matter anymore.

I'm sure Van der Meyde will be fine, but I'm worried about Van der Vaart, I must admit...

-- Anonymous, September 07, 2002

When the going gets tough,the Ajacied get going. After a half-hour of what Eurosport describes as sluggish play with no clear chances, goals by Edgar Davids and Patrick Kluivert, described as coming a minute apart, have the Oranje on top by 2:0 at the half.

-- Anonymous, September 07, 2002

Not sure what any story might be re Seedorf and Advocaat but personally Clarence has never impressed me when he's worn an Oranje jersey other than the first half against Yugoslavia in WC '98.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2002

Final Norway 0 : Netherlands 1. Turns out it was a van der Meijde shot which deflected over to "The Pitbull" to slot home.News Flash to the other BIG DICK (NOT DICK JOL!): van der Meijde is good for the offense. Two games played, two goals that he has had a hand in.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2002

About 20 to go in Norway. 0:1 to the Dutch. Davids just scoort. Trying to follow the text on a Norwegian site. It looks like van der Meijde had some role in the goal;after out-dueling Riise.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2002

Footballnl.com is reporting that Andy van der Meijde will feature in the starting eleven for BIG DICK Advocaat in tonight's friendly in Norway. The full starting eleven is listed as: Edwin van der Sar, Fernando Ricksen,Frank De Boer, Michael Reiziger, Wilfred Bouma, Mark van Bommel, Patrick Kluivert( tucked in just behind the front three the article said), Philip Cocu, Andy van der Meijde,Ruud van Nistelrooy, and Boudewijn Zenden.

-- Anonymous, August 21, 2002

Andy and Rafael are in the latest Oranje side named to play Norway next week in the final tuneup before the Euro 2004 Qualifiers begin.

Congrats on their acheivement, but once again Advocaat overlooks Seedorf. Please Menno what is the story here?

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2002

My friends and I bought tickets through the USA Ajax fan club. We would have had a great time except our tickets were for seats which haven't been built yet. If this wasn't bad enough, we were kicked out of the match for being "too loud" when we were supporting the Dutch. I've been to matches all over the world and this is the first time I've ever known anyone to get kicked out of a match for being too loud. Thank God we got to see almost all the match. I hope the USA fans will have thicker skin when they travel to Korea or at least have something to cheer about so they don't freak out when others are cheering. By the way, that was my grill. Okay, so I'm kidding about the grill. Hup Holland Hup

-- Anonymous, May 23, 2002

Parking Lot driving rule 1: Always pull out of a space forward, if possible. Can I help it if the grill cover was suicidal and thru itself under my wheel? Probably a grill from Utrecht. I want to echo the sentiments about the class of the players. I saw Frank De Boer signing autographs as well.My friend from Breda tells me Waterreus was complimentary of the american team and supporters in an article she read.Also, he is reported to have attended a baseball game on Friday night.The players cheered long for the supporters and vice- versa. I hope the wonderful excitement of the match and the goodwill of both sets of supporters ,toward each other and both teams, marks only chapter 1 in a series of internationals between the USA and The Netherlands. I would strongly urge anyone with a chance to attend future such matches to do so.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

I've never seen Ben Bell so controlled during a match !

Major emotional conflicts here, between club and country. (Bad for your health, Ben !)

When No.7 scored, he wanted to jump up and down but suddenly remembered we were sitting in predominantly USA section - and decided to remain calm and quiet ;-X

So,to release tension,after the match Ben got in his car and decided to run over some poor soul's grill cover in the CMGi parking lot!!:-D

Overall, an entertaining match, superb atmosphere, good suntan (!), beautiful stadia and a good performance by both Ajacieds O'Brien & vd Meyde.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002


He is now playing at a top-notch English First Division team situated somewhere in deepest South London, namely Crystal Palace. His style of play seems to fit in admirably with Palace's current style.

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

Just wondering... Is Greg Berhalter still playing in Holland? I remember he played for Cambuur Leeuwarden a few years ago. What's he doing now, other than receiving yellow cards against Holland ;-) ?

-- Anonymous, May 21, 2002

i really did enjoy the game, even though a lot of mistakes were made. I mean , in a way , Holland should have swept USA, but then USA is not easy to beat. But it was intense, and at least not annoyingly held back by too many bads fouls and calls as the other US games. Davids was really powerfull. I would have played Van Hooijdonck instead of Makaay though. And i wonder what would have happened if Van Nistelrooy and Kluivert would have been there. But oh well. The USA was not bad, and they had swift counterattacks. The defense is fast, but not very smart. they could have scored a lot, but i guess Waterreus had his day. And I think this was a really usefull game for the USA, cos it exactly showed Bruce Arena his team's weaknesses.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

As an Ajax supporting Yank,I am of two minds about yesterdays match. On the one hand,I was sorry to see the US have as many shots and fail to finish.On defense,the US suffered enough lapses to end up the loser. Makaay out-hustled and out-worked Pope by the end line and slotted home past Friedel with a cool finish . Later, debutant van der Meijde took advantage of the space he was given to move from right to left across the box; roofing a sweet goal.My friend and fellow Ajax-USA member Ray Ngiau had a great view of the second goal. We were in seats 4 rows from the field(section 128) and directly across from where Andy made his move inside.He showed the moves and sweet finish of an experienced goal scorer.The same two bugaboos for the rood,wit, en blauw(poor finishing and one or two defensive mistakes) reared their heads again.Combine this with the fact that Waterreus saved the Oranje's bacon time and again and you get 0:2.

On the other hand, the Ajax supporter in me wants to comment that it was really cool to watch van der Meijde play as well as he did and score on his debut.The Netherlands is my second favorite national side.On any other day ,and against a different opponent than the USA, I would have jumped for joy.

I agree 100% with Mike's comments about Zenden . He showed speed and separation ability but his touch on the ball and his passing showed signs of not being match sharp.Too much injury time and/or bench time at Chelsea.

I would rate the Dutch performance as fair.Lots of possession and individually good to excellent performances for van der Meijde,Makaay (1st half), Davids , and Waterreus(my Man of the Match). I was happy to see Landzaat play. He did a few nice things defensively. Ditto Cocu . Still, the defensive absorbed too much pressure to expect the keeper to bail them out every match. The US counter-attack really looked dangerous.Quick and skilled flank defenders have a future at national team level for the Netherlands.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Poor game by the Oranje (especially Zenden who was horrendous, gave the ball away EVERY time he touched it) but nice to see van der Meyde score on his debut. Nicely taken goal even though due to a defensive mistake. Otherwise, he was only ok. Nice to see Makaay finally get one for the Oranje.

-- Anonymous, May 20, 2002

Just read an Ajax.Netwerk.to report which lists Sunday's starters for the Oranje:

K-Waterreus D-Reiziger,Stam,deBoer, en Numan MF-Ricksen,Cocu,en Davids F-van der Meijde(!!!),van Hooijdonk, en Zenden

So, One current Ajacied and three former Ajacied in the first XI. Not too shabby.

-- Anonymous, May 17, 2002

By the way: Paul Kpaka is GBA's topscorer and superstar of the season. However, GBA manager Eric Verhoeven is quoted on the Belgian TeleText service, saying that Kpaka's test-game for Ajax "should *not* be regarded as an indication of a possible Kpaka transfer to Ajax."

Which is good, cos we don't ereally need strikers. It looks like Mido, Zlatan and Machlas will all stay, and we have Nando Rafaël coming up (the next Patrick Kluivert, mark my words!). We don't need central forwards.

We need a winger. The transfer of Vitesse's Victor Sikora to Ajax is expected to be finalized this week... Ajax does not confirm this and has not even mentioned Sikora's name, but technical director Leo Beenhakker did announce that we can expect "news" soon...

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

This is interesting... Ajax Netwerk reports that a training game between Ajax and Oranje will be played this afternoon, in Amsterdam's Olympic Stadium. This was never officially announced; the game will be played behind closed doors. Some Belgian journalists found out about the game and asked the KNVB whether it was true. The KNVB only told them that a training session would take place in the Olympic at 16:00.

Holland vs Ajax... nice one. According to Ajax Netwerk, Germinal Beerschot Antwerp players Kpaka and Snelders (currently in training at Ajax) will play for Ajax. Andy van der Meyde will of course play for Holland. Hmmm... Maybe I'll go take a look... :-)

-- Anonymous, May 15, 2002

Andy van der Meyde finally gets his call-up, and is the sole Ajax representative for Oranje when they play the USA on the 19th. Should be quite a fun match at CMGi. Here's the Dutch team, according to a post to the NAS list. G: Ronald Waterreus (PSV), Sander Westerveld (Real Sociedad) D: Frank de boer (FC Barcelona), Arthur Numan (Glasgow Rangers), Michael Reiziger (FC Barcelona), André Ooijer (PSV), Fernando Ricksen (Glasgow Rangers), Jaap Stam (Lazio) M: Denny Landzaat (Willem II), Edgar Davids (Juventus), Phillip Cocu (FC Barcelona), Andy van der Meyde (Ajax), Victor Sikora (Vitesse), Boudewijn Zenden (Chelsea) A: Pierre van Hooijdonk (Feyenoord), Roy Makaay (Deportivo La Coruña), Ruud van Nistelrooy (Manchester United), Patrick Kluivert (FC Barcelona)

-- Anonymous, May 06, 2002

Actually Ray sometimes they do.

It allows the national leagues to clear off one week-end of fixtures, and keep the national team together for about a week.

Hup Holland Hup (can't wait for this World Cup to be over).


-- Anonymous, April 01, 2002

Something looks wrong : I don't think UEFA/KNVB would allow matches to be scheduled so closely; March 30/31 vs. Czech then Apr 1/2 ?

Must be a misprint somewhere...

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2002

From KNVB.nl, I give you the Euro 2004 qualifying match schedule for the Oranje:

Saturday,September 7 or Sunday,September 8,2002 The Netherlands v. Belarus

Tuesday, October 15 or Wednesday, October,16, 2002 Austria v. The Netherlands

Saturday,March 29 or Sunday,March 30,2003 The Netherlands v. The Czech Republic p.s. can we go Uncle Jim, can we? Just figure I'd start lobbying.

Tuesday, April 1 or Wednesday, April 2, 2003 Moldova v. The Netherlands

Saturday, June 7 or Sunday, June 8, 2003 Belarus v. The Netherlands

Saturday, September 6 or Sunday, September 7, 2003 The Netherlands v. Austria

Tuesday, September 9 or Wednesday, September 10, 2003 The Czech Republic v. The Netherlands

Saturday, October 11 or Sunday, 12 , 2003 The Netherlands v. Moldova.

The two-leg ,home and away play-off dates are scheduled for Saturday,Novemebr 15 or Sunday, November 16 and Tuesday, November 18 or Wednesday, November 19, 2003.Let us hope these dates will not come into play for the Oranje. Hopefully, we'll have a healthy van der Vaart and a called-up van der Meijde to root for.

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002

A round-up of the performances of Ajacieden with their national teams... Here goes:

The U.S.A. lost 4-2 to Germany. John O'Brien did not play due to an injury.

Greece beat Belgium 3-2. Nikos Machlas was in the starting line-up, but was subbed after 60 minutes, when the score was 1-2 to Belgium.

Tomás Galásek also played exactly one hour for the Czech Republic, against Wales. Result: 0-0.

Zlaten played 20 minutes as a substitute for Sweden in his city of birth, Malmö. He replaced SC Heerenveen's Markus Allbäck, who'd scored for Sweden. Final result against Switzerland: 1-1.

Romania dismantled Ukraine, 4-1. Cristian Chivu played the full 90 minutes. Bogdan Lobont was in the goal the first half and kept his goal clean. Ukraine's goal was scored in the second half, after Lobont had been replaced by Stelea.

Hatem Trabelsi and Tunisia played in Norway. André Bergdølmo was not playing for the Norwegians, due to the injury he sustained at PSV on Sunday. He's expected to be fit for Sunday's Vitesse game. Finals core: 0-0.

Those were yesterday's friendly games. Two more firendly matches featuring Ajax players were played on Tuesday:

Nigeria played Paraguay in a friendly game in London. Ajacied Pius Ikedia, played the final 6 minutes a substitute. Result: 1-1.

Young Ajacieden Maarten Stekelenburg and Stefano Seedorf were in the line-up as Young Spain (U21) outplayed Young Oranje, winning 0-3 in Roosendaal. Youssouf Hersi, Ajacied at NAC, played the ful 90 minutes. Stekelenburg and Seedorf were replaced in the second half.

CONCLUSIONS: Stekelenburg and Seedorf were the only Ajacieden to lose their game (with Young Oranje). All Ajax-1 players saw their games end in either a draw or a victory. From an Ajax perspective, there's one major worry: the injury John O'Brien sustained in training with the U.S. team. All other Ajacieden will return to Amsterdam today in good health.

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002

So, Holland beat Spain 1-0 yesterday evening in De Kuip, Rotterdam. Only goal scored by Frank de Boer, who headed home from a corner in the 32nd minute. There were 22,000 spectators in De Kuip.

I didn't watch the game myself. Not really interested, I must say. I went to a stand-up comedy show. Anyway, according to the Teletekst report Holland actually played well in the first half. Hasselbaink was in the starting line-up. He showed some magic a few times and had a few excellent shots. It was, reportedly, an entertaining match for abut an hour, after which the level dropped due to the many, many substitutions... Here are the line-ups:

HOLLAND: Van der Sar (46. Waterreus); Reiziger, Frank de Boer, Stam (46. Ooijer), Numan (71. Paauwe); Van Bommel (65. Landzaat), Kluivert, Cocu, Overmars (68. Sikora); Makaay (85. Ricksen), Hasselbaink.

SPAIN: Canizares; Puyol, Nadal (77. Torres),Hierro(46. Cesar),Juanfran; Joaquin (46. Tiko), Sergio, Helguera (46. Capi), De Pedro (68. Vicente); Raul (46. Valeron), Morientes (46. Tristan).

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2002

Advocaat made a big mistake not selecting Seedorf who has been in great form for Inter Milan.

Bosvelt over Seedorf? Please!

Again no Van Der Meyde is a disappointment to me also. Overmars harldy gets a run (although he should) at Barca, and this has clearly affected his form.

Any thoughts?

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

Bouma has a chance to get into that problem left back are for the Oranje.

His first experience in the Holland side was rather forgettable in the first World Cup Qualifier against Ireland that finished 2-2.

I also have to note that Holland has many injury victims that day so this benefited the Irish.

Finally, I STILL cannot get over the fact that Holland will not participate in the World Cup with a roster like they have.

Just an incredible failure. Probably the biggest in World Football history.

UEFA & FIFA must also do a better job seeding the countries or something in the future. What a joke these organizations are.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

Stam returns to Advocaat's Holland squad AMSTERDAM, March 21 (DS) Jaap Stam has been recalled to the Dutch squad after his four month suspension. Stam is likely to be in the line-up to face Spain in a friendly next Wednesday. Traces of the banned substance Nandrolon were found in the player's urine, after an Italian league match last November. As a result, the Lazio Roma central-defender was given a worldwide ban by FIFA and has not played for the Dutch national team since the 10th of November.

Ronald Waterreus, Kevin Hofland and Wilfred Bouma of PSV are in the squad that Dick Advocaat named today, as well as Arthur Numan of Glasgow Rangers and Paul Bosvelt of Feyenoord Rotterdam. Advocaat is unable to name the injured Giovanni van Bronckhorst or Ronald de Boer. Mario Melchiot, Patrick Paauwe and George Boateng were in the squad to face England, but have been omitted for Wednesday night's game.

Advocaat said, "because of an injury I was unable to use Ronald Waterreus five weeks ago. Waterreus is my second choice behind Edwin van der Sar on paper. Because of injures I have had to make other changes to my squad. Giovanni van Bronckhorst will be out for months because of an injury to his left knee, while Ronald de Boer isn't fit either. Because of that, Numan and Bosvelt have the chance to prove that they still have a future with Oranje".

Dutch squad to face Spain on March the 27th; Goalkeepers: Edwin van der Sar, Ronald Waterreus. Defenders: Frank de Boer, Wilfred Bouma, Kevin Hofland, Arthur Numan, Michael Reiziger, Fernando Ricksen, Jaap Stam. Midfielders: Mark van Bommel, Paul Bosvelt, Philip Cocu, Edgar Davids. Forwards: Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Patrick Kluivert, Roy Makaay, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Marc Overmars, Victor Sikora.

-- Anonymous, March 21, 2002

I read an article on the web about PSV really trying hard to bring Bergkamp bacj to Holland after this season.

Is this true? I know he has had some contract issues, and I would not be pleased about this as Dennis can still play at a high level. He recently scored two outrageous goals for Arsenal.

Class player who is Ajax bred and not PSV.

Say it isn't so.

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2002

Hold the phone. The Revs are still working out some details, so don't call to order your special Ajax USA discount tickets just yet... I'll update the web page and this discussion when we get the 'all clear'.

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2002

Special Discount for Ajax USA members: USA v Holland: The New England Revolution ticket office has created a special Ajax USA Promotional Package for our members interested in attending the upcoming USA vs Netherlands (Men's national teams) and Revolution vs Chicago Fire Doubleheader on May 19, 2002. The games will be played back-to-back at the new CMGI Field in Foxboro, Massachusets. The USA vs Netherlands game kicks off first, at 2:00 PM. [READ]

-- Anonymous, March 14, 2002

Hard to believe that Reiziger and Overmars continue to sit at Barcelona.

What a waste of talent. Barca's homegrown players are not better options, and the Barca board, coaches, and fans, need to get their heads out of their asses.

This lack of playing time is not good for either player and they should leave ASAP.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2002

I know its a few days late, but I have to ask anyone out there who saw the highlights between Inter Milan and Juventus?

Seedorf scored 2 tremendous goals for Inter, one with each foot, the second a 35 yard rocket in the 90th minute to secure a 2-2 draw.

I think a lot of this guy, and he has not had the best of times recently, but now I hope that he gets back to his best as his ability is world class. A true playmaker that Holland could use.

Well done Clarence.

-- Anonymous, March 13, 2002

Oh yeah, and where was van der Meyde? He should have been in the Oranje squad on Wednesday, he gives us some hope on the right wing.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

Rich, nice analysis. I did not see the game (only highlights on Fox Sports World) but the match reports I read said that the Oranje had lots of possession but not much to show for it (sound familiar?).

I too was disappointed that Advocaat didn't name more youngsters. I understand he's keen to impress but why not take a page from England's book and admit that there is some rebuilding to do. Better to try new things and players now when the games are meaningless than wait until E2004 qualifying. Plus, if he's upfront about it, Oranje fans will likely cut him some slack if initial results are not that great if we see where he is going. I would have liked to see someone like Ruud Knol (Vitesse) get called up and play at centre-back (where we're weak without Hofland and Sam, I agree F de Boer is about past it), Rafael (ok, he got hurt but it was after the call-up). How about David Mendes da Silva from Sparta? I was disaapointed to see R de Boer is the starting line-up, he was great once but he's fading fast (message to Advocaat, the SPL sucks, it doesn't mean much if you play well in it). Hopefully, Dick will try new players in the next few friendlies. The right side (FB and especially mid) really worries me as I don't see a lot of young quality coming up.

-- Anonymous, February 16, 2002

I just wanted to give my views on the Holland-England match played on Wedensday.

To be honest I thought that Holland would really be fired up for this game considering it was the start of Advocaat's (Part 2) new project, and also because that the team had been under a lot of stress (rightfully so I may add) for failing to qualify for the World Cup.

I was really suprised by how slow the Oranje played and how little fire they showed as well. Some poor passing and not much imagination on the night. Overall it was pretty much a lazy and disappointing effort from the Dutch.

My platey ratings for the game and analysis are as followed:

1. Van Der Sar (8) (Made some good saves) Always solid. just wish he would save some penalties! Low blow there!

2. Ricksen (6) Decent match. Better option than Melchiot who by the way got no run. Good pace and is better going forward then defending in games that I have seen him play for Rangers.

3. Reiziger (6) Played in the middle, (normally a rightback) and I thought he covered well. Had a near fatal own goal after dealing with a difficult cross while running towards Van Der Sar's goal. Should play more for Barca.

4. Frank De Boer. (5) Getting slower and slower. His distribution which is normally his strong point was not too hot either. His days have to be numbered in the National setup. However there are not a lot quality defenders for Holland. Hopefully Stam (He is 30 too) when he returns from suspension finds his old form, and Hofland continues to grow as they would be an ideal pairing.

5. Van Bronckhorst (4) He really struggles at left back and you could tell he is out of position. This area for Holland needs improvement. He also could use regular football at Arsenal for what it is worth.

6. Van Bommel (5) Not much from the ever popular PSV Captain on the night. Good player though.

7. Ronald De Boer (4) Too old and slow. He constantly kills the attack with his tedious approach. Has been a very good player in the past, but his day has now passed for Holland. It does not help that he is always hurt, and now performs for Rangers in the weak Scottish League.

8 Cocu (5) His age is a factor too. I like his versatility, but Davids must start over him if it has to come down to these two. Would be a better option at left back over Gio, but he lacks the pace necessary in the long haul. Again we need a leftback!

9. Van Nistelrooy (5) Not much from him as Kluivert played to far away, and the linkup play was not available. He also got no service from the flanks. Obviously he is a great player and talent.

10. Kluivert (6) Nice classy touches, and got creditied for the lucky goal. I wish he was deployed closer to Ruud as this partnership could cause major headaches. They are two of the top strikers in the world and they should play closer together.

11. Overmars (4) Did next to nothing. He can be such a factor and concern for opponents, but he must regain fitness and form. He plays very little at Barca, and until he does he should not play for Holland.

A couple of things I noticed was that the camera caught Andy Van Der Meyde in the crowd a couple of times. I think he should have played on current form as the 2 wingers Advocaat used did nothing. Plus as a friendly this would have been a great time to implement the young up and coming talent. I think it would have been smart and well deserved for Andy. Again De Boer and Overmars have not been playing much for their respective clubs so why not try this guy?

Also the announcers mentioned during the match about the training session the day before the game where Davids had a harsh foul on Cocu. The players all stopped and said what is going on here? Edgar's inclusion is a must as I mentioned before, but only if he has the proper attitude and or temperament.

Hasselbaink is a great player for Chelsea no question, but he must be a reserve for Holland unless he is paired with Ruud in attack with Kluivert in the hole. I say give it a try!

Also Seedorf must see time. He is so talented, but he too has been caught being in the wrong team. (Inter Milan) That is their loss, but still he is young and is a player with ability. He certainly is a better option then Ronald De Boer, or maybe he could play in the hole supporting the pairing of Ruud and Kluivert?

Zenden is another option if he recovers his form and stays away from injury. If Holland play with wingers he would be a a good option on the left. He would also be a better option at left back then Gio, as he played in this position for Van Gaal at Barca a few times and did well.

Overall there is a lot of talent for Holland, there is no doubt about that, but they are not very enthusiastic for Friendly matches it seems. The attitudes need to change here big time, but also another key factor that is hurting the Dutch team is the fact that many of the players play out of position, and do not play as much for their respective club sides. This certainly does not help Holland and it played a major role the other night. Still things will get better I believe. I pray! I hope! I expect!

Any thoughts?

Take care,


-- Anonymous, February 15, 2002

The Advocaat Era (Take 2) - Holland 1 England 1

I didn't see the game but from what I've read, the Advocaat era started about as well as the van Gaal one ended. I know it's early and it was only a friendly but I can't help but think the Oranje are deep shit . . .

-- Anonymous, February 13, 2002

I would have liked Advocaat to name a more experimental squad and try out some new or newer faces (van der vaart obviously though now hurt, Kamphuis, Petta, etc.) but I understand that he wants to get some results and not take on any criticism. Pretty strong squad though missing Hofland and Stam at the back. Glad to see Boateng in there, he's solid. Given England's newbies up front (Owen, Fowler, Sheringham, and Cole out) I expect a 2-0 win for the Oranje.

-- Anonymous, February 12, 2002

Thought's on the Holland v. Ingerlund game tomorrow anyone?

Dick Advocaat's first game in charge....he'll be keen to impress. Lots of premiership based players in the squad...you just know their English team mates have been taking the p!ss in the dressing room for the last 4 months. The Dutch team/fans/press have been busy with an energetic game of fingerpointing since the failure to qualify, a bit of a "bonfire of the vanities". I think Holland will win 2-0 or 3-1, just 'cause they are ashamed of having failed to qualify, plus, they like friendlies where they can pose and do fancy tricks (not to be confused with "doing the business" when it matters).

Too little too late...... Hup Holland Hup.


-- Anonymous, February 12, 2002

Just checked the Official new England Revolution page. The USA v. Netherlands match is indeed May 19,2pm, at CMGI Stadium ,Foxboro. The only release about tickets is that tickets for the May 19 Friendly- MLS doubleheader are part of Season Ticket packages only at present. Individual match tickets for this date are to go on sale at an as yet unspecified date.Stay tuned.

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

It looks like only former Ajacied in the first selection of the van Hanegam- Advocaat era. The team selected is: Keepers- Edwin van der Sar (Fulham) and Oscar Moens(AZ)

Defenders-Frank DeBoer and Michael Reiziger(Barca), Giovanni van Bronckhorst(Arsenal),Mario Melchiot(Chelsea), and Lars Ricksen (Rangers)

Midfielders-George Boateng(Aston Villa),Mark van Bommel(PSV), Philip Cocu(Barca), Edgar Davids(Juventus), and Patrick Paauwe(F-word)

Forwards-Ronald DeBoer(Rangers),Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink(Chelsea),Roy Makaay(Deportivo La Coruna),Ruud van Nistleroy(ManU), Marc Overmars and Patrick Kluivert(Barca), and Victor Sikora(Vitesse)

-- Anonymous, February 07, 2002

Rumor, REPEAT ,Rumor has it the USA v. Netherlands friendly is to occur May 19th at the new CMGI Stadium in Foxboro ,Massachusetts.The Big Soccer website and a New England Revolution website have the game as the first part of a doubleheader; with the Revs and Chicago Fire in the second match. Makes sense to me because 1)A friendly / MLS league double should draw well. MLS is in a make or break year re: attendance at matches. and 2) CMGI is a brand new stadium. It's opening date is 11 May. The times were thought to be 2pm est for the friendly and 4:30 pm for the MLS match. The 2pm time also sounds reasonable since it would allow the match to be aired in prime time by Dutch TV. Hopefully this RUMOR will become fact in short order.

-- Anonymous, January 31, 2002

From OneFootball.com:

Van Basten offered trainee role with Holland

Wednesday 30th January 2002

The Dutch football federation (KNVB) have invited legendary Holland striker Marco van Basten to take up a trainee coaching position with the national squad.

KNVB chairman Henk Kesler explained that Holland team manager Hans Jorritsma had approached Van Basten with the idea last year.

"Van Basten was asked to become involved with the national side as a trainee, and he would start his course in September," Kesler said.

"I was a very serious proposal because Ronald Koeman, Frank Rijkaard and Johan Neeskens have also done it, so why not?"

Van Basten is yet to state whether he will take the KNVB up on their offer.

The former AC Milan great has also been offered a post at Ajax where coach Koeman has made it clear that there will always be a position at the capital club for his former team-mate.

The Ajax option might be more appealing to Van Basten who recently slammed the KNVB for their handling of the appointment of Dick Advocaat as Holland coach.

Van Basten was also surprised to learn that former coach Louis van Gaal had had a say in who should take over from him, and he was outraged that his former team-mate Ruud Gullit wasn't even considered for the job.

"I can't believe his candidacy wasn't even considered – that says quite a lot about the people who have to make such an important decision," Van Basten told the Telegraaf a fortnight ago.

"They apparently don't see what the norms are at this level."

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Bill, re Kluivert in the withdrawn role, I've actually heard the opposite from Barca fans, that they find he plays better when he is playing withdrawn. In any case, I think it's worth Advocaat exploring, that's what friendlies are for!

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Rich I hope they can play together as I am sure it could be a very leathal partnership (But not against England !!!!!). You mention that Both Van Nistelrooy and JFH play with a striking partner for their respective clubs, and that this pairing should not be a problem. However, their partners have different qualities to them ie RVanN at Moan U has a nippy Giggs or Ole. With regard to Kluivert playing in a withdrawn role, I was watching a recent Barca game on the box and the commentators kept stating that this was his best match for a long while and that it was no coincidence that he was again playing up front and not in a withdrawn role. Totally agree re Davids - his name would be first on my teamsheet

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Hasselbank's a very hungry, deadly, opportunist striker. He's been top scorer in two top European leagues. The problem is that he's a loner, and isn't condusive to "team" success (look at Athletico's relegation while he was banging in goals, and Chelsea's current inconsistency).

In my mind he represents the perfect "super-sub". He doesn't work well in "systems" which Dutch football is obsessed with. Holland should have him in their back pocket as a trump card for the final 20 to 30 minutes of a tight game.

RvN is pure class, he works hard for others, reads the game very well, and an excellent finisher...the next Van Basten. The offence should be built around him.

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Both Van Nistelroy and Hasselbaink are great front players, but can they both be accomodated in the same team as their styles can clash ?

-- Anonymous, January 30, 2002

Mea Culpa, mea culpa , mea maxima culpa. I must have been watching Melchiot dyslexically. Melchiot is indeed a right-back option. Didn't even think of van Bronckhorst in the back or midfield. Is he even getting playing time? As for Davids, I have spent more time in hospitals and less following footie in the last three months.I wasn't aware his suspension had been resolved. No question a side with the "Pitbull" is stronger than one without.Cheers.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002


Reiziger over Ricksen without a doubt but I have friends who are Rangers fans (I'm obviously hanging out with the wrong crowd) who tell me that he's playing very well this season. I've watched a couple of Rangers games and he has been solid. I think he's a better choice than Melchiot who is prone to serious defensive lapses (as you noted, Rich, in the Ireland match). Heitenga is still too green IMHO but he's defintiely one for the near future. I'd give Theo Lucius (PSV) a look too but he's hurt right now.

Left back is a bit of a problem too. I like Numan but he's getting on so I'd put Gio there for now. Can't Hofland play left back too? That may be a solution once Stam's back provided we think Frank de Boer still has some time left.

My starting 11 is basically the same as Rich's but I'd love to get Cocu in there as I'm a big fan of his. But that kinda goes against youth.

Here's my 22 man roster:

Goalkeepers: Edwin van der Sar, Edwin Zoetebier, and Sander Boschker (FC Twente)

Defenders : Reiziger, Hofland, DeBoer, and Gio van Bronckhorst as the back four. Numan and Ricksen on the bench. If the game was not merely a friendly, I might start Ricksen over Reiziger simply because Ricksen is playing regularly and Reiziger is not.

Midfield: Overmars, van Bommel, Davids, and van der Vaart. I know Overmars is better on the left but I have doubts that van Bommel would be effective on the wing. Van der Meyde (what the hell, he's looked good lately. I used to not like him much as a player but he's growing on me), Zenden, Cocu, and Seedorf on the bench. Maybe Janssen but isn't he hurt and/or in the doghouse? I thought he got dropped from the Vitesse first team just before Koeman left for Ajax for iolating a team rule or something.

Van Nistelrooy and Hasselbaink up front with Makaay, Kluivert and Kuyt on the bench. Apparently, Kuyt and Rafael were the most impressive players for the Jong Oranje against England's U-21 a couple of months back. Otherwise maybe drop Kluvert into the mid just behind the front two with van Bommel on the bench. I'm not a big fan of Vennegoor of Hesselink so I don't think I'd add him to my squad at this point.

Ben - Lurling would be an interesting choice, he's looked good the few times I've seen him lately.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

I figure I will list my choices for invitation to the Oranje training camp and give all you "Eagle-eye" Oranje fans something to shoot at.My squad consists of:

Goalkeepers: Edwin van der Sar(Fulham), Edwin Zoetebier(F-word)and Sander Boschker(FC Twente)

Defenders : Reiziger(Barca), Hofland(PSV) , DeBoer(Barca) ,and Numan (Rangers) as first choices for back four. Reiziger isn't playing much but his cover may be someone like Andre Ooijer(PSV) or Michael Lamey (RKC).Reiziger, playing or not, is still the best choice . A real DARKHORSE candidate is Johnny Heitinga. In the center, Beyond Hofland and DeBoer, what real choices are there but the dimmer twins, Ricksen and Konterman, both Rangers.Perhaps someone like a Rob Penders from NAC. Just a thought. The left-side has the aging Numan and the inconsistent Melchiot(Chelsea). Left back is a position just waiting for someone to step forward and snatch it.I am at a loss to think of any who just jump out at me.

Midfield: You asked for youth, you got it. There are at least 6 players 25 and under who could make a mark on the team.Rafael van der Vaart,Mark van Bommel(PSV), Niels Oude Kamphuis(Schalke),Theo Janssen (Vitesse),Boudewijn Zenden (Chelsea) and Clarence Seedorf (Inter ).The "Old men" may well be Patrick Paauwe(F-word, 27)and Philip Cocu(Barca ,31). Also, Jeffrey Talan (Heerenveen) has been in the "Oranje" before.

Last but not least, my choices for the strikers to be recalled:Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink (Chelsea), Ruud van Nistlerooy(Man U), Patrick Kluivert (Barca), Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink (PSV, nice to have a good arial option), Victor Sikora(Vitesse)and Marc Overmars(Barca) to open the wings up, and maybe two younger generation strikers, Anthony Lurling(Heerenveen) and Dirk Kuyt(Utrecht).

Those are my choices.Just figured I'd give y'all something to disagree with.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

I agree about Konterman. He is in way over his head as far as I am concerned when he appears for Holland. Then again that may be the case when he plays for Rangers too. I thought he was simply awful against Ireland in the first World Cup Qualifier back in September of 2000. Unfortunately he had to play because of all the injuries.

Perhaps another Rangers player Fernando Ricksen will play right back. I am not a fan of Melchiot either. He was responsible for that shit goal in the disatrous Ireland match played in Dublin.

I also cannot get the ill memory of his time at Ajax out of my head. In particular when Juventus ripped us apart in the Champions League Semi-Finals. Melchiot just sucked in those ties. He has gotten better at Chelsea, but these two or three matches remain in my mind.

For the rest of the squad perhaps both De Boer's, and Cocu may be finished for Holland as age is a big question. Still they can play for me until someone better comes in.

Many questions but still a ton of talent for Holland.

My Xi at this time: 1. Van Der Sar 2. Ricksen (Rightback) 3. F De Boer (Centerback) 4. Hofland (Centerback) 5. Van Bronchorst (Left back for now, but he must play) 6. Van Bommel (Right Midfield) 7. Van Der Vaart (Left Midfield) 8. Davids (Center Midfield) 9. Kluivert (Playing in the hole) 10. Van Nistelrooy (Striker) 11. Hasselbaink (Striker) Not right wing! Stupid Van Gaal!

I would like to see Seedorf, Stam, Zenden, and Reiziger when they are playing again. Maybe Van Der Meyde in the future too?

What do you guys think?

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

It will be very interesting to see who Advocaat names to the squad for the England match as you are right, there are a lot of the usual suspects hurt or out of form. Moreover, some players are close to the end of their international careers (Numan, the de Boers) so I would expect some youth to start being brought through quickly as Advocaat/Van Hanegem start to prepare for the Euro 2004 qualifiers. Rafael is obviously a candidate. Right back is troublesome with Reiziger not playing much so I would expect (unfortunately) Melchiot to be named to the squad. I think Hofland is healthy again so I would expect him and F. de Boer to be at centreback.

Just so long as Advocaat doesn't bring back Konterman, he's awful and I have no idea how he made the E2K squad (where his play was embarassing). For some reason, Advocaat played him all the time at Rangers. He might be barely adequate against the Motherwells of the world but he had no business being on the Oranje.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

RE Clarence Seedorf, just saw this on KopTalk.com:

Liverpool have been linked with a possible move for Inter Milan's Clarence Seedorf.

The Inter Milan midfielder, who is looking for a move away from the San Siro, has been attracting the interest of a number of clubs including Spanish side Espanyol who have been trying to secure a loan deal for the out of favour star.

Seedorf (25) was a member of the Ajax first team at just 16 years of age. He was a fully fledged international at 18 and a European Cup- winner at 19.

-- Anonymous, January 29, 2002

Anyone with thoughts on Seedorf or Reiziger's situation as I inquired about last week?

Recently a lot of the top Dutch players are struggling for form. With that said, what does anyone think of the upcoming (Feb 13th) Holland- England match, and what players will be selected for that game?



-- Anonymous, January 28, 2002

Yup, it's Advocaat and Van Hanegem. The KNVB underscores that Van Hanegem is not Advocaat's assistant. They're completely equal. I didn't know, but Advocaat and Van Hanegem have been really close friends since they were team mates for only one season, at the Chicago Sting.

They're signed with immediate effect, so the Ruud Krol-construction is off (he was supposed to be a temporary coach for the friendly game against England, in Amsterdam on 13 Feb).

The KNVB wanted a new coach before the draw for the qualifications for Euro 2004 in Portugal - and they succeeded. The draw was today. Holland is in a group with the Czech Republic, Austria, Moldavia and Belarus.

And this time: QUALIFY, goddammit. This has been a bad joke, so let's cut the crap!

-- Anonymous, January 25, 2002

Looks like Advocaat after all. I like this decision by the KNVB. I EXPECT much success for Holland in the future.

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002

Can someone find out why Clarence Seedorf never plays for Inter Milan? Whenever I have seen him play for Inter he has done well, and it makes no sense that he gets no run. What a waste of talent. Just a few years back he looked to be one of Europes top midfielders. I know there have always been questions about his desire and temperament, but what is wrong here? I think a problem may be that Italian players C. Zanetti, and Luigi Di Bagio are preferred, but neither are in Seedorf's class. I just do not get it.

Also Michael Reiziger wants out of Barcelona, and Man United are very hot for him. Another quality player who deserves better if you ask me. Puyol is first choice right back for Barca, and to be honest he is not a better player than Reiziger.

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002

Thanks for posting that story, Rudy...

I'm sure it's true. Ajax.nl now confirms that the KNVB has asked Ajax to release Ruud Krol for a while, until the official new coach is signed. Leo Beenhakker is quoted saying that the KNVB was very helpful when Ajax wanted to sign Ruud Krol in December. That was a done deal within 48 hours. Beenhakker says that Ajax and Krol would like to return the favour and are "positive" about the KNVB's request.

Newspaper De Telegraaf and TV show Studio Sport have already reported that it's a done deal. Ajax.nl says it's not (yet), but I'm sure it soon will be soon, today or tomorrow. Since this deal involves an Ajax-1 coach, you'll see a report on the Ajax USA homepage when it's official.

By the way: several Dutch media now announce that the new Holland coaches (yup, that's a plural...) will be Dick Advocaat and Willem van Hanegem. Quite a combination... Don't know what to think of it. I don't know whether it's true, and if it is, I still don't know what to think of it. Two quite different characters. I like Van Hanegem as a person, but I've never been to fond of him as a coach, I must say...

And why would Rangers FC suddenly be willing to let Advocaat go? What made them change their mind?

-- Anonymous, January 24, 2002

Hmmmm....hot off the press.....

The Times Of London:

THURSDAY JANUARY 24 2002 Holland appoint Krol but will wait for Advocaat BY OUR SPORTS STAFF RUUD KROL will take charge of Holland for the friendly against England on February 13 but Dick Advocaat, the Rangers director of football, remains the No 1 choice of the Dutch FA to take the job on a permanent basis. Having failed to qualify for the World Cup finals, Holland have no competitive games until Euro 2004 qualification starts in the autumn.

Advocaat was offered the job earlier this month but opted to stay with the Ibrox club. However, having made the former PSV manager its target, the Dutch FA is now reluctant to go elsewhere.

Ajax have agreed to release Krol, who at present is Ronald Koeman’s assistant. The former Holland captain was No 2 to both Frank Rijkaard and Louis van Gaal when they were national team coach before joining Koeman at the end of last year. He has also managed Egypt.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

Van Gaal and Co Andriaanse are reported to be headed to Manchester United to take over for Sir Alex Ferguson when Fergie retires at the end of the year.

VG has been tooting his horn about this for awhile, but latest reports link both former Ajax coaches to the United post. Van Gaal, Ferguson, and Chairman Peter Kenyon are all very close and have a lot of respect for each other.

Van Gaal would be manager while Co would serve as the ManU youth director, which he of course served under VG while at Ajax together .

We will see I guess, but this is a big move for both men who have certainly had better times after recent failures.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

Now I have read about another scandal involving Patrick Kluivert. He is now being accussed of taking part in an orgy the night before Barcelona's latest match on Sunday.

The other players named are Cocu, club captain Sergi, and Gerard Lopez. Barca's Board of Directors are furious about these allegations and plan on suing along with the players who categorically deny these outrageous claims.

Of course recently Kluivert, Davids, and Frank De Boer were all named in another sexcapade while on duty with Holland the night before a Friendly in Denmark. These stories too are reported to be false, and I read that De Boer and Kluivert were going to sue. Davids meanwhile just laughed this situation off.

Kluivert by the way was handed a 1 match suspension for abusing the referee in this contest on Sunday that Barca lost.

He has also been linked with a 20 million bid to Liverpool. Hopefully he is smart and does not go there as Liverpool play shit football. Jari Litmanen rots away there as they do not play a technicial or skillful game.

-- Anonymous, January 23, 2002

Hey! Now I realize: the game Rick was talking about was a Mexico vs Holland game on the 19th. NOS Teletekst and Ajax.nl announce a U.S.A. vs Holland game, which would be awesome!! Still strange, tho: a football team never plays two days in a row...

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

Hmmm... Ajax.nl now has it, too: USA vs Holland, 19 May, somewhere on the east coast, kick-off time 8:00 PM.

Weird. Any news in American media?

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

Just found the first mention in the Dutch media about the Holland vs U.S.A. game. But it's only causing confusion, I guess. NOS TeleTekst reports that Holland will play a friendly game against the U.S. on 19 May (!?!) and that the game will be played in a city on the east coast (?!).

May 19 and East Coast, eh...?

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

Hmmm... we don't have a general "Ajax Players In Their National Teams" thread (HINT, Mr Webmaster...), so I'll post it here...


Mido and Egypt have had a bad start: they lost their opening game in group D against Senegal, 0-1. Mido did play the full game and received a yellow card. We can probably offer you a link to a match report of our friends at EgyptianPlayers.com soon...

A disappointing start, too, for South Africa, with former Ajax and current Germinal Beerschot Antwerp player, Aaron Mokoena. Mokoena played the full game against Burkina Faso, but South Africa could not do better than a 0-0 draw.

This afternoon, there'll be another intersting game for Ajax fans, as Hatem Trabelsi and Tunisia take on Zambia.

Over here in Holland, the Africa Cup games are live on Eurosport, but they took that from the cable in Amsterdam, so I can't watch. Oh well, not much time for it anyway... :-/

-- Anonymous, January 21, 2002

I'd like to see Jean Tigana of Fulham get a shot at being the Oranje's manager.

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002


From the Fifa site:

Mexico, Netherlands Plan Friendly

Mexico plans to play a World Cup tuneup match against the Netherlands in the United States on May 18. Mexico plays Colombia in Mexico City on May 12. Its other upcoming matches include against El Salvador in Pasadena, Calif., on Jan. 19, Guatemala in Pasadena on Jan. 21, Yugoslavia in Phoenix, Ariz., on Feb. 13, and Romania or Georgia in San Francisco on Feb. 27.

All the other US games are in California...so your odds on getting to the game look good!


-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

Ajax USA long-time member Rick Liebling has tipped us off that the Associated Press is saying that Mexico will play Holland in the US on May 18. No city given. Let's hope it's true!

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002


His coaching record is patchy to say the least. Inheriting Hoddle's Chelsea he rode momentum created by the former boss, and he almost destroyed Newcastle (his name is mud on Tyneside). On top of that, his reigns we're littered with back-room politics and ego clashes...something the Dutch National team has finally got rid of. Final reason...he walked out on Holland weeks before the WC in America, destablising the entire team.

JC and MvB are the dream ticket...Hiddink should be "plan B" even if they need a "caretaker" 'til after Japan because he's under contract with Korea.

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

In response to Rich's hint... ;-)

The latest official news is that Dick Advocaat said "no thanks", but you already that. He has, by the way, now admitted that he turned the offer down because Rangers won't let him go. Apart from that, all I read are some opinions and rumors. Here's two interesting ones for you. This is from TeamTalk.com:

"Stevens wants Dutch dream team

Schalke's outgoing Dutch boss Huub Stevens says that Holland should appoint Marco van Basten and Johan Cruyff to lead the Oranje. Stevens, who is leaving Schalke at the end of the season to take up the reins at Hertha Berlin, says that the KNVB should appoint two of the former players from the glittering history of the nation to lead them out of the doldrums.

Cruyff was probably the most skillful player Holland has ever seen and went on to manage Barcelona, although he is adamant that he would never take over the national team's coaching duties, while Van Basten was the greatest striker of his generation and played for AC Milan before having to call it a day because of injuries.

But Stevens says that the Cruyff-Van Basten partnership would work wonders, especially if the elder statesman takes up a co-ordinator role.

Talking exclusively to TEAMtalk, Stevens said: "The example Rudi Völler shows, that an inexperienced coach can still do a good job. I only know Marco as player, the problem is that he has no official coaching qualifications. But together with Johan Cruyff, they would make a great team."

But if they do not want to become the Dutch dream team, Stevens thinks that a foreigner could do the job, he says: "That would also be a solution, look at England under Sven Goran Eriksson. For me personally, in spite of the opinion of my fellow countrymen, a German coach also could do the job." (Original article on TeamTalk.com).

And this one right here, is from OneFootball.com:

"Van Gaal accused in anti-Gullit conspiracy"

Marco van Basten has urged the Dutch football federation (KNVB) to appoint Ruud Gullit the next national team coach and labelled Louis van Gaal's influence in appointing a successor "weird". He said: "I don't understand why he has anything to say at the KNVB. He's leaving, isn't he?"

The former Holland star also slammed the KNVB for persisting in their efforts to prise Dick Advocaat from his job at Rangers. The Ibrox chief is set for further talks about his future with Rangers chairman David Murray on Friday.

The committee set up to select a new coach comprises KNVB chairman Henk Kesler, a board of directors, and outgoing coach Van gaal, whose presence, according to Van Basten, is unnecessary.

"I can't understand how Louis van Gaal still has a voice in such an important decision," the former Ajax and Milan star told De Telegraaf. "After everything that he has recently said and done, it's weird that the KNVB still listen to him.

"I really don't understand why he still has anything to say at all at the KNVB. He's leaving, isn't he? How come he then plays a part in the appointment of his successor.

"And why is somebody like Ruud Gullit not a candidate?" Van Basten continued. "Doesn't he also have the appeal, the authority and the quality required for such a position? Apparently Gullit wasn't even considered, and that is really sad.

"It's all about four factors: appeal, football know-how, influence on the players and an adequate feeling for discipline. In this regard, Johan Cruyff would have been the best candidate, but he wasn't interested in the job.

"Because we are also living in 2002 and this squad is in need of a fresh breeze, the names of Rijkaard, Koeman, Gullit and myself came up. Of this group, Koeman and Rijkaard are still under contract at clubs and Van Basten has to get his coaching certificate first. Then you get to Gullit.

"Then there's the fact of whether he would or wouldn't do it. I can't believe his candidacy wasn't even considered – that says quite a lot about the people who have to make such an essential decision. They apparently don't see what the norms are at this level.

"I've watched all the developments from the sidelines. I'm not part of a group, I don't have any connections and I don't have any interests in this. From this independent position, I have seen things happen which I really can't grasp."

Van Basten continued his astonishing outburst with a pointed attack against Van Gaal. "Take, for example, the importance that was suddenly given to the game against Denmark [last November]. It's rather odd that such a friendly was only taken seriously by one man [Van Gaal] – because there was only one thing at stake and that was the reputation of that same man.

"I'm not really surprised that not a single player felt it as something of a challenge. It would rather have proved someone has the wrong mentality, if a player prepared like a soldier for such a nothing game. That's why Van Gaal was the only one who made miscalculations in how to approach that game.

Van Gaal quit as national coach last month, citing irreconcilable differences with his squad after Holland failed to qualify for the World Cup. The friendly against Denmark, which proved to be his last game in charge, was overshadowed by rumours his players attended a late-night party involving a well-known Danish stripper.

"This stands apart from the breaching of the rules by a few players. That's out of order and Van Gaal should have taken action in the appropriate way," Van Basten added.

"However, he then kept talking about the mentality of his players, so suddenly all the good ones had to suffer along with the bad. That's why I still don't understand why not a single player stepped forward to correct the coach, while they were publicly embarrassed.

"While we are talking about a nothing game, Louis van Gaal was allowed to make mistake after mistake." (Original article at OneFootball.com,/a>).

-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

I hope Cruyff takes a leading or advisory role with the Oranje. He is needed no if's, and's, or but's about it. Anyway, I wanted to know if any of our friends from Holland (perhaps Menno) keep us updated on the Oranje coaching situation?



-- Anonymous, January 17, 2002

Article from DailySoccer.com:

Cruyff eyeing Dutch co-ordinating role? AMSTERDAM, January 15 (DS) Holland legend, Johan Cruyff is available for a co-ordinating role around the Dutch national team, according to the chief editor of Dutch football magazine 'Voetbal International'. Speaking on the television programme, 'Voetbal Insite' last night, Derksen said that Cruyff is not interested in a place on the Holland bench, but a 'Beckenbauer role' would appeal to Holland's greatest ever player. Franz Beckenbauer performs the role of ambassador for both Bayern Munchen and German football. But while Cruyff himself said in October that such a role was impossible at Holland giants, Ajax Amsterdam, he indicated that it could be performed for the Dutch team. In that case, Willem van Hanegem, Marco van Basten and Frank Rijkaard are already rumoured as being the principle candidates to become Cruyff's technical staff. Last month Cruyff said, "above all else the KNVB shouldn't think that all the problems in the world would be solved by appointing a new manager. The whole structure needs to be examined. You have to ask yourself seriously how this could have happened and of course you have to make sure that it doesn't happen again. The new people need to have football knowledge, but also charisma. As manager of the national team, you are also the ambassador of Dutch football". As far as naming the new manager is concerned, time is running out for the KNVB who promised to present their new man before the draw for Euro 2004 takes place in Porto, on January the 25th. Cruyff has himself suggested a Frank Rijkaard and Marco van Basten combination, but this appears unlikely even after the KNVB's number one choice, Dick Advocaat decided not to take up the post.

Hmmm....sounds interesting. I like the idea of Cruyff taking a leading role in Oranje. He's got the crdibility with the players, the technical know how, and would be a morale boost after all the indignation of the Ireland debacle. A nice little warm up in Portugal (Euro 2004), and then we can lay some ghosts to rest in Germany (WC 2006). This assumes of course there isn't an ego based blow up between the KNVB and JC in between.

-- Anonymous, January 15, 2002

Looks like Advocaat won't be taking the KNVB job (assuming it was offered to him as it appears to have been). Any ideas who the next choice might be? Gullit? Supposedly, the KNVB wanted to have a coch in place before the 2/13 friendly with England but Advocaat turning the job down might change that timing. In any case, the KNVB shouldn't let timing of a friendly dictate the decision.

-- Anonymous, January 14, 2002

I was reading today that Marco Van Basten is very unhappy with the KNVB's handling of the "new" manager.

Van Basten feels that Ruud Gullit should be selected for the position, that the KNVB is playing games, and he went on to attack Van Gaal's contiuned involvement with the selection of the new manager, as ridiculous. (I agree if this is true) He also took time to rip Van Gaal's views on how the players were not totally committed.

Other reports that I have read are that Advocaat is really being pressured by the KNVB to take the position again, and leave his current post as Director of Football at Rangers.

We will see about this, but I applaud Van Basten for letting Van Gaal have it. Van Gaal has really pissed me off lately as he continues to use the press for his own methods. Again his reputation has been damaged big-time with the incredible failure with Holland, and he is a desperate man.

-- Anonymous, January 11, 2002

Hi all, first time posting. I'm not that much of an Ajax fan (my favorite Eredivise team but my club team for various reasons is Liverpool). I am however a huge Oranje fan. Not being at the WC is a bitter pill to swallow but after much mourning and looking for a silver lining (which may be clouding my thinking!), I've decided that not being there may, in the long-run, be a good thing. If nothing else it's a wake-up call, I too am sick of the "beautiful football over winning football" outlook. Of course I want to see beautiful football but at this point I'd like to see the Oranje win something (Ok, Euro '88 was great but that's getting old).

It will be interesting to see who the next coach is. I woudn't mind seeing Hiddink back but that's unlikely as he'll be with South Korea at least through the end of the WC. Actually, I'd really like to see Jean Tigana of Fulham get a shot but it's extemely unlikely that the KNVB will even consider him as he's not Dutch. But he's done a great job at Fulham (and Monaco before that), likes attacking football, and he would be a breath of fresh air into Dutch football. Won't happen of course.

-- Anonymous, January 03, 2002

I read another Van Gaal article today that quoted VG as saying that he was offered the head coaching role of another country that has already qualfied for the World Cup.

I say to Louis, please stop tooting your own horn! You are a legend in your own mind! He has lost a lot of credibility throughout Europe with his disastrous spell in charge of Oranje. With the vast array of talent at his disposal he failed, so why would any other country want him?

Van Gaal is his very own public relations machine. I used to like him, and still think that Barcelona made a huge mistake forcing him to resign, but Holland is a top 5 side and their failure is his too.

-- Anonymous, January 02, 2002

Rich, I think this article might be the one you're refering to. It's from OneFootball.com.

Dutch FA chief wants arrogant stars axed ---------------------------------------- Tuesday 18th December 2001

Dutch FA (KNVB) chairman Jeu Sprengers has launched a scathing attack on the national team, claiming that Louis van Gaal's side failed to qualify for the World Cup because of their arrogance.

"It's a question of mentality. The Dutch players simply have far too high opinions of themselves," Sprengers declared during Tuesday's KNVB meeting.

"Having let ourselves down in the 2000 European Championships, the performances in 2001 have been absolutely woeful," he snapped.

"After this latest failure we have to start addressing the problem – and that is one of mentality. There are countries like Italy, England, Spain, France and Germany who are now above us in the rankings, and that shouldn't be the case."

The KNVB chairman has no say in choosing Van Gaal's successor. That job goes to the Dutch professional football association chairman Henk Kesler – but Sprengers was keen to offer his advice.

"As chairman I would like to make an urgent appeal to the professional football association to appoint a national coach who is able to get the best out of the players available," he said.

"We need a coach who will put his foot down and only agree to work with the players who offer their complete commitment.

"I think there are too many players who just go through the motions. I have to wonder whether these are the sort of players we want representing Holland.

"First and foremost it is about winning, then winning and winning," insisted Sprengers.

"In our country we still have great knowledge of the game. It is just a shame that that knowledge seems to be so scattered. For some reason people don't think that there is any need to co-ordinate ideas.

"We are always looking for things to disagree about instead of showing a willingness to cooperate and share knowledge. There is more division than unity, and that is a fact.

"The Cruyff-Jansen school of thought is always clashing with Van Gaal- Adriaanse school, and then there is the Advocaat-Michels way of thinking which is somewhere in between. We all need to start pulling in the same direction," he concluded.

Sprenger's attack comes just 24 hours after the former Holland coach Guus Hiddink launched an astonishing tirade of his own on Van Gaal.

"Under his management Holland did not win a single important game," said South Korea boss Hiddink. "Of course Van Gaal is responsible for his team's failure."

Comparing Van Gaal's spell in charge with his own, he added: "When I took over, I changed the entire staff. That new system worked right away, because we qualified for the World Cup.

"And we played a good tournament. Then Rijkaard came after me, and that was successful too. After him Van Gaal took over, and it all went wrong."

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

I read that Van Gaal is not an option for Manchester United coaching position. According to the United Chairman Peter Kenyon, Van Gaal and his advisers have put that rumor out.

The United board feel that Van Gaal has lost a lot of respect after his disastrous spell with Holland. I must agree, and it proves that VG is a legend in his own mind.

I also read that Guus Hiddink ripped VG a new a**hole by putting all of the blame on his shoulders after the aforementioned World Cup failure.

Finally, certain KNVB members have voiced their concerns and disappointment with this situation as well. They (Sorry I cannot remember the names of these individuals) cannot believe this crisis considering the wealth of talent that Holland produces and that there is no excuse that Holland is not in the tournament. One quote was the players must think of only winning, winning, and winning when weraing the Oranje kit.

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

Yeah... There's a short interview with Danish nude model, Kira Eggers, in the paper today, in which she says that it's not true and that she feels guilty for causing this by saying that "what had happened in the hotel was her secret". She says she was in the hotel bar with six other women, saw some Holland players there, but never got in touch...

-- Anonymous, December 19, 2001

I can understand your frustration with Oranje, but in this case this story is false according to many reports.

Regarding Kluivert he must get it together. Drink driving is stupid, and when will he learn? His life off the pitch has been somewhat a disaster. I think he has such talent, but he must grow up.

Regarding Van Gaal he is a master spin doctor, and he is just looking to deflect some of the blame for Holland's failure. I think he lost the plot in at least 3 of the qualfication matches to be honest with you. The first match home to Ireland he picked guys that should never have been there (Bouma, Witschge to a name a pair) although I will admit he had his hands tied with the numerous injuries to a lot of the main players. In the home game against Portugal why was Vennegoor of Hesslink playing while Hasslebaink was not in the squad? Finally the Ireland game in Dublin with his subsitutions? Bottom line is a poor job by Van Gaal.

Overall there is no excuse for the coach or the players as this team could very well have lifted the cup, and not even qualify is the biggest failure in World Cup Qualification history.

Its all so very hard to accept, and the misery will start again for me in June, or is it the end of May?

Finally a question for UEFA & FIFA. What is going on with the bogus seeding for all competitions? Holland not seeded for Euro 2004? Look at their track record its speaks for itself. Regarding the recent World Cup Qualfication I say to be paired with Portugal and Ireland was not right either when looking at some of the other pitiful groups. Portugal and Holland are two of the top 5 sides in the world and they are paired together? This is a scandal!

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

It's a complete disgrace. Disgusting.

I'm not talking about them fooling around with those birds as such. I don't care about that and it's not worth a media scandal. What I really hate them for though, is the fact that Louis van Gaal announced a few weeks before the Denmark vs Holland game that this game was gonna be crucial to him. He was going to decide whether he'd stay or not based on the attitude of the players in that game. They knew that - and they couldn't even act as professionals on the night before that game! Amazing. That's a humiliation and a complete lack of respect towards Louis van Gaal. It's a stab in the back.

Van Gaal's words about the attitude of the players (at his farewell press conference) can be interpreted in a completely different way because of this.

Jesus, what a bunch of losers, betraying the man who made them big. (Question: how many Champions League and World Cup finals did they play anyway with those so called 'bigger clubs' they're now playing for?)

If I was the next Holland coach, I would send all those guys a letter saying: "Thanks very much and good luck at Barcelona, Juventus or wherever you are playing. I'll find better guys than you. 'Better guys' in several ways."

I really had it with those guys. They're completely out of touch with reality. Apparently it's too much to ask to show some respect for Louis van Gaal, not even to mention dignity. I don't give a shit if they want naked chicks on the table, but not when on the night before a game in which they're representing me (and 15 million other Dutchmen).

In the mean time, Mr Kluivert was caught again for 'drinking and driving'. Jeeezz, has that guy lost it or what? That's the third time, for crying out loud! The first time he was stopped by a car with an innocent man in it (who is now dead), this time he was stopped by the police before something like that could happen (thank God). The next time I hope he will be stopped by a big fat tree. Idiot.

Time for the next generation, I say. Let's start all over again.

-- Anonymous, December 17, 2001

Well it's nice to see several Dutch players (alledgedly) "scored" in Denmark! And we wonder why we're not going to the WC...does the word "proffesional" ring any bells?

Article from DailySoccer.com:

Kluivert and Co. alledgedly involved in Copenhagen strip scandal ---------------------------------------------------------------- AMSTERDAM, December 13 (DS) Dutch football could to be on the verge of another scandal after the Danish daily newspaper, BT claimed that three Dutch international players were involved in "nightly indulgences" with a number of strippers. Well-known Danish stripper, Kira Eggers and Danish businessman, Kim Laudrup told BT that Frank de Boer, Edgar Davids and Patrick Kluivert partook in an erotic party the night before Holland's friendly match with Denmark on November the 10th. Eggers claims that Laudrup and a number of women were present when she stripped for the international players in a suite in the Marriott Hotel in Copenhagen.

The news was given vast amounts of space in yesterday's BT with the heading, 'Scandal before international - Dutch stars warm up with stripper,' and was featured on a Danish TV news programme last night. The Danish media claim that there is a link between this affair and Louis van Gaal's resignation as Dutch manager, as he noted the lack of professionalism amongst his players.

The director of the hotel, Hans-Peter Bachofner said that the suite was occupied that night, although he cannot say by whom. He also said that he doesn't know if a model performed there. The three players strongly deny the claims. De Boer said, "I at least want this rectified." Kluivert who had been caught drunk-driving in Spain last week said, "this has been completely made up."

The KNVB (Dutch FA) have said last night that they are aware of the claims. The KNVB director, Henk Kesler chose to conduct an internal investigation and deny that the incident occurred. Kesler said that, "On Louis van Gaal's arrival at the hotel at 11 o'clock, the players left the bar." The Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf today noted that in van Gaal's resignation press conference last month he said, "I was waiting for a sign from the players, in order to decide whether I'd stay on as manager." Later on he said, "I didn't get those signals in Copenhagen." He continued by saying, "My ideas of how to prepare for international matches, were not always the same as a number of the players."

-- Anonymous, December 13, 2001

This is not Ajax related strictly, but you may find it interesting to know that Huub Stevens (formerly at Roda JC; now at German side Schalke '04 from Gelsenkirchen) is the main candidate to become the new Holland coach, according to most of the media...

-- Anonymous, December 01, 2001

Without wanting to drag out this latest trend of conversation on this particular subject,

I just want to pass on this news that Jonge Oranje U19 is still in contention for the Euro Championships, see link :

Amsterdam, November 15th, (DS) -- The Dutch under-19 side booked their place in one of the eight play-offs for the European Championships after a 2-1 victory over France yesterday. Holland topped their group and will now meet Ireland for the right to play in next year’s championships in Norway. Nicky Hoffs and Michael Jansen scored for caretaker manager, Andre Wetzel’s side.


-- Anonymous, November 15, 2001


-- Anonymous, November 15, 2001


Even the Irish are confirmed now! Which clowns did they have to get past to qualify?????


-- Anonymous, November 15, 2001

This is no fun...

Those Belgians and the f&%$#@#*& Germans did qualify for the World Cup. They always do.

That sucks.

Well, as long as they know that we have a potentially better team than they have! ;-)

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001


Oooops....good point!

That reminds me...in the second final...didn't the game turn after Jon Bosman got sent off against FC Mechelen (the team he had already signed for to start the following season)?

Conflict of interest???

Surely not!


"Getting a bit old and memory slipping" Rudy

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001

Point well taken, Rudy. But just for the record... You wrote: "PSV won the European cup the year Holland finally got the German "monkey off their back" in Euro '88."

Let's not forget about this tiny little Dutch club that played *two* European finals right before Euro 88: in 1987 and 1988, one of which was decided by a guy who did reasonably well in Euro 88... :-)

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001

Holland lose again...time for more soul searching....

I don't share Menno's sentiments on the "Oranje" because to me winning "something" is equally important for Ajax or Oranje.

Firstly, the reality is that it's not really a choice, when Dutch club sides do well in Europe, the national team blossoms. Fword's and Ajax's dominance in the early seventies led to the strong '74, and '78 world cup performances. PSV won the European cup the year Holland finally got the German "monkey off their back" in Euro '88. Ajax in the mid nineties set the stage for the latest Holland team.

As for the Dutch "malaise", I think it's the obsession in "techinque" and "tactics" (versus the Germanic "mind set")...that's where the problem lies. The French (and many others) have the technique and tactics...but they also have the "sang froid" or killer instinct that true champions need. If you support Holland you just have to accept it I think...it's not going to change.

I personnaly think it all goes back to the infamous day in '74, where we scored against Germany in the final before they had even touched the ball. It was like kids standing on the precipice of something momentous and they didn't know what to do. Instead of "doing the business" and burying the Germans they decided to "take the p!ss" by toying with them......a VERY bad idea when your playing them. As we all know...."Kaiser and co." got annoyed rather than intimidated and turned the game around. We should have won, everyone knew it, our crop of players were the best in the world, and these moments come so rarely in a lifetime....but we blew it. I think since then we've had a national psychosis and attitudinaly (sp?) and have hidden behind a form of soccer snobery i.e. "we don't need to win, because we know we're better...we just want to score beautiful goals", it's summed up perfectly by Cruyff's quote (I'm paraphrasing here) "In fact we won because everyone remembers our football from '74, not Germany's".

Like I said, if you're going to support Holland...that's just the way it is. A bit like loving beautiful, cultured, culinary Paris but having to put up with grumpy Parisians (my wife is Parisian before I get any hate mail!).

Anyway, fingers crossed maybe Euro '04 will be different....and then there's the W.C. in Germany.........we always do well there......


Rudy ("still dreaming")

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001

Hey Bill,

Yeah, I was just very annoyed by the way they let it happen again, but your're right: Ajax is a thousand times more important to me than the national team. Frankly, I don't care about Oranje that much. I've been to only three Holland games in my life (two friendlies just because someone invited me along - plus one QC qualifier, during last year's 'Ajax USA In April' trip). It doesn't give me any feeling at all.

I never stay home for friendly games, I hardly ever watch qualifiers unless it's a really crucial one (like the away games in Portugal and Ireland...). I get the 'spirit' when the big tournaments start (and they're participating). But I really hate the Oranje crowd (too provincial, too carnavalesque - YES, Jim, I know I asked you to paint my face in Eindhoven...) and if I would have to choose between Ajax winning something and Holland winning something, there's no doubt: I'd go for Ajax.

I don't have that 'Holland thing' at all, but I can get very annoyed by this country's manic focus on what they think is 'quality'. Even when it comes to Ajax, only one thing is just as nice as a great 6-0 victory: a completely, utterly UNdeserved shit victory by one 'stolen' goal in the last minute of stoppage time, which should have been disallowed, but the referee was blind. Winning the 'German way' is almost as much fun as winning in glorious style.

Also, I'd really like to win on penno's once... :-( I remember how it feels (Ajax, World Cup against Gremio, 1996): as if your head and heart are exploding. It feels better than seeing your team score a normal field goal, but I can hardly recall the feeling anymore...

Anyway, I'm better now - thank you very much.

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001

Hi Menno I know how it feels to always hear excuses for the failures - I have lived with that since the world cup of 1970 in Mexico, when we let the Germans back into the game due to 2 disasterous substitutions by Sir Alf. Since that time the good days have been a long time coming - and now it could be our turn again. However Menno, the question is often asked in England whether a fan given the choice would rather see his team or the country do well. The answer has always been the club. Given the same choice what would be your choice ?. Whilst it hurts when the country is defeated, I bet it always hurts twice as much when Ajax is defeated. The Times in England are saying Van Gaals's head is on the block and his time as national coach are numbered for this one and also because of his 4-4-2 tactics. Having said that, I am unsure whether too much credability can be put on this as in the same article they stated that van der Vaart played on the left-wing at Ajax.

-- Anonymous, November 14, 2001

Menno, Don't kill yourself over this. It's easy to say, but hard to digest, for I'm sure. Maybe the romantic period of Dutch football is over. You know, that swagger and that style, the mystic and the attitude. Never having won The Big One, but came close or so many times. 1974. 1978. 1992 vs Denmark. (I know, it's "only" Euro) 1998. And of course, still fresh in our minds, 2000 & 2001. Is the (here we go..) dreaded 4-3-3 obsolete ? But wait, let's ask ourselves, can the Dutch really play any other style ? And be quite as successful ?

Remember that success is what you make of what you envision as successful, And in the eyes of the Dutch media, well, as I sense from your post, the jury is out that Oranje has *proven* to be the better team without scoring more goals than the opponent.

That's art, fellas.

Winning is not art. Winning is business. Art is the sacrifice of the mundane for passion, of what you believe in.

Of what you envision as successfully expressing your beliefs.

I've not read the book recommended by Jim, so I won't try to pretend to know the answers. After all, that's the million dollar question.

But if it weren't for its style and its adventures and its attacking nature and all that total football stuff, where would we be ? I might be a Spanish fan, Ben might be an Irish fan, Jim might be an Italian fan and who knows who might be that dreaded German fan...

Maybe we're all romantics, hopeless romantics, It's the classic tale of romance with a double edged sword. Maybe we're all hoping that art and style can truimph over the dull and the conservative, For they came pretty damn close many, many times.

Make no mistake of it, my love is still intact, For I will NOT have it any other way, - maybe I'm a true, hopeless romantic - ...but I will continue to dream that one day Oranje will truimph, by playing the way only they know how to play,

As a final thought, just look at France. For many, many years they were drew the *admiration* & *sympathy* of millions for their style and heart but never won anything big, until that fateful day in the summer of '98, the strangest thing happened and saw to it that the next Pele suffered a seizure and shocked the entire Brazillian team. Since then, France went on to conquer the footballing world. In a stroke of bizzare luck, that day marked the end of the might and mystic of Brazillian football and gave birth to the new masters of the world, France.

It could easily have been Holland, don't you agree ?

Am I still dreaming ?


-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

I really like the way the Dutch/Ajax play football. It's like they are not playing football or something. From what I have read, they are like beings from a more modern football civilization. This was true and is still a little bit true today. One thing I really hate though is that when losers think they are potentially better. If you lose, you lose and that means the other team was better than you. Its that plain and simple. Why don't you just accept that you lost and the other team was better. Why don't the Oranje change their attitude to something potentially better. I want you guys to succeed and be World Cup Champions. But if you keep on using this reason when you lose, I'll just have to say "damn those potentially better Oranje football losers". Don't let that potential stick to you all your life. I agree, winning is the art. There are no points for second place when you know you are the best. Damn, and I was looking forward to seeing the Dutch in Japan next year. I even had my orange jersey ready. WAKE UP Holland!

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Menno's brutally honest post might surprise some people. If an American summed up a post with "I hate America" to a U.S. Soccer forum, he'd get bashed from a thousand directions. But there is so much history to Holland's schizophrenic performance on the world's soccer stage, and so much complexity to any thoughtful Dutchman's attitude toward Holland's chronically underachieving nature. There is just as much complexity in Menno's comment.

I am extremely grateful to my old friend Neil Sherman for his great recommendation of Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football. You can learn more about this book on Amazon, but don't order it from Amazon! They can't get it! Order it from AbeBooks.com!)

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Now the Young Oranje joke is over as well...

I don't want to see the orange colour and I don't want to hear anyone talking about the 'Oranje' team for the next couple of years.

Holland: please play 300 friendly games behind closed doors, without boring us with it on TV. Please piss off with those ugly orange shirts and leave us alone for at least 24 months.

C.U. at Euro 2004 (or not - whatever). If you're still in the "penalty missing mode" or in the "losing despite we're potentially better mode", please give me a call, so I know I don't have to watch Euro 2004 either. Please let me know when you've discovered that mysterious thing that makes you win, instead of "losing despite being a potentially better team".


-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

So, Young Oranje screwed up for the European Championships as well. With Van der Vaart and Heitinga in the starting line-up (and Hersi subbed in later in the game), Young Oranje lost 1-0 in Derby, against Young England.

As usual, the Dutch media as well as coaches and players claimed that England "was not better than us, technically and tactically". Yeah right. I've been living in this country for 26 years now (I *am* 26) and I've been hearing that shit ALL MY LIFE.

We were potentially better than Germany in '74, we were potentially better than Argentina in '78, we were potentially better than Spain in the qualification campaign for '82, we were potenially better than Belgium in the qualification campaign for '86, we were potentially than Germany in '90, we were potentially better than Denmark in '92, we were potentially better than France in '96 and potentially better than Italy in 2000. And of course we were potentially better than Ireland and Portugal in 2001.

That's becoming a really pathetic Dutch thing: we're always (technically and tactically and potentially) the best team, according to ourselves. Well, why don't we stop wasting our energy on becoming "potentially the best" for a change, and pay some more attention to converting chances, scoring penalties, defending well- deserved leads and actually fucking BEATING the teams we can "potentially" beat.

Shit country.

We keep thinking that playing football is the art. It's not. WINNING is the fucking art. And firing the ball straight through the net from the penalty spot.

I hate Holland.

-- Anonymous, November 13, 2001

Now the 'big guys' screwed up, Holland is watching 'Young Oranje' instead. They're failed to qualify directly for the 2002 European Championships for U21 teams and are now playing two play-off games against Young England. The first game was on Saturday, in Utrecht. Result: 2-2. Rafaël van der Vaart, Andy van der Meyde and NAC loanee Youssouf Hersi were in the starting line-up. Van der Meyde was later replaced by Johnny Heitinga, who made his debut in Young Oranje, coached by Mark Wotte.

Young Oranje was the far better team in the first half and took a well-deserved 2-0 lead. The first goals scored by - yes, he also does it when wearing orange - Rafaël van der Vaart. The second goal was a tip-in by FC Utrecht striker Dirk Kuyt, after a Van der Vaart free-kick had bounced back from the post.

In the second hald, Holland was absolutely shit and England equalized. I think it was a guy named Dunn who scored at least one goal. He was also by far the best England player, but I have to admit: both teams didn't look to promising for the future...

The second game is tomorrow, in Derby. Andy van der Meyde has the flu and will not travel to England (hope he'll be better by Sunday, for the NAC game...).

-- Anonymous, November 12, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

Saw the whole debacle in an Irish bar here in Toronto, over twenty shots...all fluffed....aarrgghhhhh! Menno is right, there were four important games, we didn't win any. Anyway, having partied with the Irish in USA '94 I can't think of a nicer bunch of people to go out against.

This generation of footballers have really frustrated me as a fan. They seem to be able to show the razzle dazzle at any time EXCEPT when it really matters (except for Bergkamp v. Argentina in '98). Since the European Cup in '95, they've blown every "critical" match...France in Euro '96, Brazil in WC '98, and Italy in Euro '00. Infact, if I think back to the European Cup in '95, I would argue that the substitution bringing on the "non-Dutch" Kanu was what really unsettled Milan and led to the scramble where Kluivert scored.

This generation lacked the "sang froid" that saw France become world- beaters.

On a more positive note at least all the English fans I know will now stop referring to the 4-1 win against Holland in Euro '96 as the "best England performance" in living memory, which was bugging the hell out of me (especially as I was there!). ;o)

Good Luck Ireland! Roll on Euro '04!

Rudy (still in mourning)

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

Well, that was it then...

The World Cup of 2002 in Japan and South Korea will be the first World or European Championship since 1986 in which Holland will not participate. As a Dutchman, I find that a shame and I will definitely miss the excitement of my country participating when the tournament starts.

Holland's elimination is generally considered unbelievable, disgraceful and disastrous here in Holland. It is also seen as 'The End Of A Generation': the large part of the former Ajax crop (the De Bpers, Van der Sar, Davids, Kluivert) will be too old to still win the World Cup of 2006. We can start all over again, building a new Oranje team. This is, indeed, goodbye to a generation.

A few thoughts about this qualification campaign itself...

Playing in a group with Estonia, Andorra, Cyprus, Ireland and Portugal, you know in advance that it's all about four games: two against Ireland and two against Portugal. Holland did not win a single game out of those four. Fair conclusion: we're not good enough and we don't deserve to go.

I really think that. Alright: Holland started playing football too late - and, more importantly, too little. Holland should have won the away game in Portugal (taking a 0-2 lead and giving it away in the last ten minutes: 2-2). This game in Ireland should also have been won easily. They should have scored at least two in the first 25 minutes and should *never* have allowed Ireland to win the game while playing with ten.

But in the home games against Ireland and Portugal, Holland simply did not deserve more than the single point they grabbed. They were taken by surprise by Ireland, who took a fully deserved 0-2 lead. Holland was lucky that a shot, deflected by an Irishman's back, went in to make it 2-2. Against Portugal, it looked as if Portugal were playing with fourteen players. Holland had no chance in the world, was humiliated and was taught a lesson, both tactically and technically.

Therefore, I don't agree with what most commentators said yesterday: "Ireland is unbeaten at Lansdowne Road for fifteen games. Holland has not screwed it all up over here; they had already screwed it up in the home games against Portugal and Ireland." That's not true. In those home games, there was simply nothing more in it for Holland. The single point they grabbed was lucky enough. They *did* screw it up yesterday at Lansdowne Road. This was a game they should have wrapped up before half-time. They didn't, just like they gave Portugal the chance to come back.

There's only one conclusion: during the crucial phase of this campaign (away to Estonia, Ireland and Portugal), this Holland team was in good form, they were optimistic, self-assured and and they had almost all the stars to their availability. They ended up doing exactly as bad as they did in the home games: one out of two against Ireland and Portugal - not even to mention the fact that they were 2- 1 down in Estonia, some fifteen minutes before time. Not exactly convincing.

It sounds weird to say that this team lacks quality, but you should note that there's more to quality than brilliance only. In football, there's only one rule: 'quality' and 'winning' are equivalents. This Holland team is not good enough.

-- Anonymous, September 02, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

And what about Melchiot & Reizeger? Also played tonight. I was not a big fan of Melchiot at Ajax, but I thought he played well against England.

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

Here's a quick update of what the 'international' Ajacieden did this midweek...

First of all: HOLLAND. Holland beat England, 0-2 at White Hart Lane. No Ajacieden in the team. Former Ajacieden: Van der Sar, Overmars, Davids and Kluivert.

A day earlier 'YOUNG ORANJE' was demolished by Young England: 4-0. Van der Gun and Van der Meyde were in the starting line-up; Van der Vaart was on the bench. Don't know whether he was brought on.

FINLAND won a friendly game against Belgium in convincing style: 4-1. Jari Litmanen scored one goal from the penalty spot; Petri Pasanen played the second half.

Nikos Machlas was replaced in the 58th minute of GREECE's game against Russia, which ended 0-0.

ROMANIA and Slovenia played 2-2. Cris Chivu played the full 90 minutes. GEORGIA had a succesful visit to Luxemburg, winning 0-3. Not sure whether Arveladze played, or was even with the group...

(Round-up info from Ajax.nl)

-- Anonymous, August 16, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

I Listened on the internet radio at work. I swore for about fifteen minutes at the end, people came into my office to ask if I was alright.

Absolutely bloody terrible, after dominating for 80 minutes!

Now we're in a scrap for a play off berth....unreal!!!!

-- Anonymous, April 01, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

Jesus Christ... this was... amazing. Still can't believe it. They give it all away in six minutes' time. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

-- Anonymous, March 29, 2001

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

As you've all read on Ajax USA, there's an Ajacied in 'Oranje' again. And that's the way it should be. We're talking about Richard Witschge, who did not want to play for Holland anymore after a conflict with former coach Guus Hiddink, back in 1997. Louis van Gaal invited him back, and Witschge accepted the invitation.

He was in the starting line-up against Ireland, this Saturday. He did... well... shit, really, like the rest of the team. Ireland were dominant throughout the entire game, they took a 0-2 lead, but gave it all away in the end: Jeffrey Talan (Heerenveen) and Giovanni van Bronckhorst (Glasgow Rangers) scored, to make it 2-2.

Coach Louis van Gaal has stated that Witschge "is always a candidate for Oranje", so he'll probably be part of the team again, from now on.

-- Anonymous, September 04, 2000

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

Remarkable little fact:

As you people know, a man called Louis van Gaal is now the new national coach of Holland. He revealed his first selection this week, with which he will analyze Euro 2000 first. There were a few surprises: he invited some dibutants, such as PSV players Bouma and Van Bommel, but since Aron Winter has resigned as an Oranje player, there is NO Ajax player in the Dutch team anymore.

Van Gaal tried to change Dennis Bergkamp's mind (he retired as well), but he didn't succeed. Bergkamp is sure about his decision.

Well, at least people can't accuse Van Gaal of being focused on Ajax only... ;-)

-- Anonymous, August 13, 2000

Response to Which Ajax players play Oranj (Dutch National team)?

A wee year later we can add Chivu and Lobont to this list and remove Dani (I told you Menno!). Chivu played an excellent tournament with Roumania. The bad thing about this is that loads of Italian clubs want to buy him. The latest news/rumour (today) is that Inter Milan is interested in him. Let's hope Ajax can keep him!!!

-- Anonymous, July 02, 2000

Response to which Ajax players play national for dutch?

Well... thanks Bastiaan, who is - by the way - a very good friend of mine: you're absolutely right about Van der Sar (he's playing for Juventus - sorry about that) and about Davids too (he's an Ajacied as well), but you're wrong about Dani: he's actually played his first international game for Portugal. I have to admit: I was drunk when I wrote my contribution above... Still, for a drunk it's not bad, is it? THANX MAN.

-- Anonymous, September 16, 1999

Response to which Ajax players play national for dutch?

Menno, I have to correct you on some points. First, Van der Sar didn't leave Ajax for Barcelona but for Juventus. Second, to the best of my knowledge Dani isn't an international for his own country. And was mister Edgar Davids not also an Ajax player when he played in our national team for the first time? Whatever, let's hope Ajax will beat Dukla Banska Bystrica on thursday,

regards, Bastiaan

-- Anonymous, September 15, 1999

Response to which Ajax players play national for dutch?

Well eh.... none, at the moment, or maybe Aron Winter. But there's a specific reason for that. In the France 98 team there were three Ajacieden left: goalie Edwin van der Sar and the De Boer bros. Right after the tournament they left Ajax for Barcelona. More interesting is the question: which Holland players, wherever they might play at the moment, are in fact Ajacieden? Well, hey ho - let's go (all of these players got their first Holland caps while being an Ajacied): Van der Sar, Frank de Boer, Ronald de Boer, Clarence Seedorf, Dennis Bergkamp, Wim Jonk, Marc Overmars, Patrick Kluivert, Michael Reiziger, Frank Rijkaard (the coach!), Johan Neeskens (second coach). Got the picture? And what about Knopper, Nieuwenburg and De Cler, playing for the Holland-under 21 team? Here's another interesting question: which foreign Dutch players are internationals for their country? Well, what about Machlas (Greece), Arveladze (Georgia), Dani (Portugal), Gronkjaer, Tobiasen (Denmark; Laudrup used to be too, but he retired from the national team) and of course... Johnny O'Brien (US of A). Not bad, I would say.

-- Anonymous, September 14, 1999

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