Are fuel purchases being watched?

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just got this off roleigh martin's site. can anyone confirm???

From: gravesfarm

Folks, Pardon my French, but I am PISSED! I was just running around town finishing up the last few of my preps- mainly fuel, and 'extras'. I stopped at our local "gas n go" and filled 2 6 gallon containers with kerosene. Went in to pay for it, and was informed that NY State Law now requires them to keep a record of all kerosene purchasers. I had to SIGN for it! They also wanted to know where I lived. The convenience store clerks were apologetic, and one was a bit upset that the State cares about this, but they insisted it had to be done. It's a shame my handwriting has gotten quite so bad... the bureaucrats will have a heck of a time reading my name! Next time I doubt that I'll be that truthful- I have a feeling quite a few disney characters are going to be buying kero in our area from now on. Anyway, in my opinion, this has gone too far! Whats next- ID required. THAT ought to be interesting- most of the purchasers in this area are Amish, who carry NO ID, ever.

[snip]

-- lou (lanny1@ix.netcom.com), September 22, 1999

Answers

it would be really funny, as long as they don't require ID, for everyone to put the name of their local representative and the address of local city hall (or, around here, a Congressional address).

-- sarah (qubr@aol.com), September 22, 1999.

Not defending this, but just a thought: Isn't kerosene an ingredient in some homemade bombs?

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), September 22, 1999.

* * * 19990922 Wednesday

lou:

Could you please provide a URL for this item?

sarah:

Good idea: use a "name of {a} local representative and the address of local city hall (or, around here, a Congressional address)"

Thinman:

"Not defending this, but just a thought: Isn't kerosene an ingredient in some homemade bombs?"

Shut-up, PLEASE!?! Ingredients could also be: gasoline; soap; fertilizer; aluminum; et al. Get real!

This item gives real gravity to the Y2K situation. It also provides grist for the diversionary government mantra of straw-man "terrorism" as a premise for doing just about anything government(s) want in the name of national security--and "protecting our children."

Regards, Bob Mangus

* * *

-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), September 22, 1999.


What was the price of the Kerosene($1.15 or $1.55) . What did the pump look like? Here is what I found last year.

All kero for home use will be colored red which indicates that it will not have the road tax assessed. Last years govt.

If you don't pay road tax for the kero, it is colored red. Some of the people with portable kero heaters(kerosun toyoset, ect.), should not use the red kero because it puts a clog in your wick. When the place sells clear kero the user should pay the road tax because the biggest user(other than delivered home kero) are trucks. If you pay the road tax, use the fuel for your home heating, and have receipts, you(as a home owner without a semi-truck) could deduct the "road tax"($0.39/gal) from your income taxes, that you paid when you filled your kerosene cans . It is a lot of trouble and you have to wait for the tax refund.

In my area of NY, many of the gas stations make extra income by selling kero to home owners(not truckers). They have a deal where they will set up a "clear Kero" pump with a ring located on the bottom of the pump which will not permit the nossel to fit into the fuel tank of a truck but will allow you to fill up your fuel can. They may also have a fence around this pump which only allows you to walk next to them. Example(Hess stations exit 15 and 18 of the Northway(I87)have this set up.) The catch is that you can not buy more than 20 gallons at a time and must indicate that it is for home use. On the form that you signed it states that you will be using it in your home use and not in a semi-truck).

Is it a lot of trouble? Yes. but why should you have to pay the road tax for clear kero when you can deduct it off your taxes next april. Just sign the form and forget it but remember to not buy 100 gallons in any one week. That will indicate that you are using it for your semi-truck. If you need that quantity, have it delivered to your house's basement like everyone else.

Ned

-- ned P Zimmer (Ned@nednet.com), September 22, 1999.


Are fuel purchases being watched?

Uh oh, the tin foil brigade are marching again.............

Rather than figure that there was a reasonable explanation for it, you just had to give it 'conspiracy theory' status and post it here. Who's next.......Okay, I got one........last week I applied for a credit card and they insisted that I give them my real name.....can you believe it!!

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 22, 1999.



Didn't Hillary just buy a place in NY? Her address would be a good one to use.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 22, 1999.

Craig,

F### you, too, you snot-nosed little punk. Don't you have anything better to do than attack, attack, attack anyone who expresses the least distrust in an increasingly violent, insolent and overbearing Federal government? Ridiculing these people is all you seem to "offer," on this and every post you put your poisonous little stain on. Why don't you get a job? Or IS this your job?

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 22, 1999.


He's not worth it Liberty. We wouldn't want him getting any bonuses for inciting a riot now would we?

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 22, 1999.

Tin Foil Brigade Member ... and darn proud of it!

Creed -

I shall not automatically think an idea is crazy just because I have been told it is.

I shall seek information from a wide variety of sources and shall come to my own conclusions, not just swallow those of others.

I will delve into subjects that don't fit into sound bites and seek to find my own answers to questions that puzzle me.

I will realize that when someone tries to ridicule an idea, a person, or a source of information, it is probably because they don't have facts they can use and must resort to the primitive but often effective technique of ridicule. I simply discount the source of the ridicule and proceed with my mission.

I shall carry my head tall, and wear my Tin Foil Hat proudly as I march to a different drummer.

To truth!

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), September 22, 1999.


Linda, Glad to see you with chin up in this thread! Stretch those wings wide. Sincerely, Stan Faryna

Got 14 days of preps? If not, get started on your Y2K preparations now. Click here.

Have you read Sally's essay, "Bean Theory"?  Click here to get to the Y2K Kitchen.

Have you checked out the TB2000 Preparation Archives recently? If not, click here.



-- Stan Faryna (info@giglobal.com), September 22, 1999.


No riot, just one wannabe jr. thoughtpolice cadet nursing a fat lip, if I could have my way.

Granted, his "Swedish Chef" thing on the above threads is kind of funny - but again, this guy is all about picking at people and tearing them down; he can't do anything without attacking someone else. He needs a vigorous ass-kicking, and more conventional psychotherapy, in that order.

Sorry everyone, if I flew off the handle; but I'm really sick of this dork popping into threads and poking people in the eye - usually in response to some really useful or interesting information, as on this thread. Flint, Y2kPro and the rest are just as bad; all stink bugs, abusing the anonymity of cyberspace to project their pathetic lack of self-esteem.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 22, 1999.


The point is : its none of their Damn business. Fake names are the best way to go. In my area, I've been to auctions looking at guns and if you pay cash, you don't have to give your Drivers license number (used if you write checks), so I am John Koskinen to the local auctioners.

I decided to buy/store gas in 5 gallon containers because the 2 companies I checked with said they send records to the state of all tank owners (in case of spills). The plastic containers were less than a dollar/gallon of storage, the tank about $1.20/gallon of storage. Its not much fun having 30 5 gallon containers, but they're in 4 different bulidings (not the house) and unlikely to be noticed like a tank is.

This government intrusion has got to stop or it'll be as much a "black market" in the US as it currently is in Russia --- people will find a way.

-- Jon Johnson (narnia4@usa.net), September 22, 1999.


Jon,

"...so I am John Koskinen to the local auctioners." I like it a lot! Imagine John Koskinen travelling all across the nation buying guns and kero.

-- RUOK (RUOK@yesiam.com), September 22, 1999.


Finally getting back to this after several hours. Robert, you kind of completed my incomplete thought. Yes, I was thinking of the terrorism angle; again, not to defend what's being done, but suggesting a reason. If the government is expecting terrorists to crank things up for the millennium, this might be part of creating the paper trails for investigations after the fact. Maybe I'm mistaken, but after Oklahoma City, wasn't there some tracking of bulk fertilizer purchases, too?

-- Thinman (thinman38@hotmail.com), September 22, 1999.

Liberty........you just don't get it do you?

There is a lot of very valuable Y2k material posted here that I appreciate.......

There is also, however, a very unbalanced 'there is something evil under every rock' mentality that abounds here with some folks...........now that is acceptable....called freedom of speech......but everytime I comment on it you have a hissy-fit.

I am not critical of most information......but there is so much inuendo that flys around here with no substance that it is really sad.

The guy is rambling on about 'quite a few disney characters are going to be buying kero in our area.....' that he hadn't even stopped to consider that there might be a very reasonable explanation for what happened.

There are enough evil elements of government to go around Liberty........but some of you aren't happy unless the rest of us consider EVERYTHING government to be pure EVIL. God help the man or woman who actually spells Klinton with a 'C'!!

How is it that if I tell you something like 'My spirit was quickened in a dream last night, and I saw death and destruction rein over all the cities on the Eastern Seaboard.....ad nauseum......' you would take it seriously and defend it because it was all part of the big picture.........however if I state that I believe Y2K will not be quite as severe as some expect because of (whatever factor) you scream, whine and sulk and call me a troll??

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 23, 1999.



One last thing Liberty.......what the hell are you talking about, 'abusing the anonynimity of cyberspace'??

I have always used my real email address and name and where I live......I've even posted my full name and where I work etc. from time to time.......how is this anonymous?

How about you? You're a real tough guy aren't you.....uh.....whoops.....sorry, you're not, you're hiding behind a fake email address and name.

You, accusing me of hiding behind anonymity........hehehehehehehehhehehehhehehehehhe

-- Craig (craig@ccinet.ab.ca), September 23, 1999.


I think Steve Martin said it best in an old song of his, "Criticize things you don't know about"

-- Paul (magaloo@hotmail.com), September 23, 1999.

Folks I'm the one who made the orignal post. Found it on Gary Norths site and then followed it here. Interesting route! Anyway, I DON'T CARE what it could be used for. My point is simply this- it is none of their damn business who buys anything that is not illegal or controlled as far as age (tobacco and alcohol, and don't get me started on that). I wish someone would give me the rationale NY is using on this, because it's got to be interesting. As far as fuel tax, this stuff is sold as clear Kerosene, and costs about 40 cents MORE a gallon than diesel, so why would anyone use it in their trucks.

-- Linda (gravesfarm@juno.com), September 23, 1999.

Craig,

Admit to yourself you're a statist whelp. You just aren't comfortable unless Nanny State is watching over your cradle. You can't get to sleep without your Government Issue anal probe fully inserted. And when someone else objects to Nanny, as when she TRACKS OUR PRIVATE PURCHASES, or banking transactions, or rousts us out of bed on some professional stool-pidgeon's rumor, or "seizes" our cash WITHOUT CHARGING US WITH a crime, or burns down a neighbor's church full of children, and then lies to us about it, you perceive that your Nanny, your source of personal security, is being threatened. So you lash out. You latest response is incoherent: you make no rational objection to the original poster of this thread. Just what, precisely, is unreasonable about the post? You are far more incoherent than the religious doom-prophets you attempt to associate him with. He's not saying anything about "evil under every rock" - that's YOUR imagination running wild. He simply doesn't like the government collecting data on his private purchases; neither do his neighbors. How does that make him a "tinfoil"? Why are YOU so threatened when others try to shake off the attempt of government to micromanage their existence? And you are INSULTING. Why do you expect me to treat you like anything but the shit that your are, if you do nothing but insult and ridicule others in an apparent attempt to mask your lack of critical thinking skills? I mean...what...are all those...elipses about....anyway?! FOCUS, for godsake. Maybe you'd find out you actually have something to contribute (but I'm not going to hold my breath).

As for anonymity: I mean everything I say on this board, and would say no less in person, face-to-face. If you are as much of a whiney and insulting little prick in person as you are on this board, God help you come Y2k. Because no one else will. Especially not your beloved Nanny.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), September 23, 1999.


I am not in NY, I am in MO, so I am speaking from local experiance. Some states have old laws on the books about when Kerosene heaters were all the rage. Folks would come in and purchase the Kerosene in whatever they had handy such as a glass jar or any other thing they could find. You signed a sheet each time you purchased it saying that you understood about proper care and so on. It was basically a legal release. Some places in my neck of the woods still have you sign, some don't. Depends on whose working the counter. Some of the books are so old the dust on them is thicker than the book.

I have NO clue if this is even remotely related to NY, but this is something I have seen in my area for years. I wouldn't be to suprised to see the books come out more and more though because I did see someone trying to fill up a milk jug with kerosene the other day.

-- b (b@b.b), September 24, 1999.


linda,

i've asked around a lot of people up here in northern ny, and the reason for recording kerosene purchases is that it has to do with people trying to avoid paying road taxes for possible vehicle fuel purchases. truckers apparently could purchase this stuff, which is not taxed, and use it in their vehicles. i guess the state just wants to make sure this isnt happening. it sucks, but thats the way it is.

i originally posted this post by linda on here (off the gary north forum). its interesting how some people made such strong accusations of paranoia merely because it was ASKED why/if this was happening!

anyway, it turned out to be (i think) no big deal. but did make for an interesting thread.

-- lou (lanny1@ix.netcom.com), September 24, 1999.


Craig: Just an anecdote here, a bit of sage advice: I worked for the DOD for fifteen years. Citizens should ALWAYS question their government, ALWAYS (unless of course, you like the idea of a dictatorship or the idea of someone else pulling all the strings). When you STOP questioning or being suspicious of your government, they will take advantage of that. Read the Constitution and think about why it exists and why it came about. Thanks.

-- G (ghgillis@juno.com), September 25, 1999.

From: Y2K, ` la Carte by Dancr near Monterey, California

Even if the reason for collecting the address is unrelated to any government plans to use such lists as a good starting point to find "hoarders," the fact that they could be used for that purpose may recommend for purchasing the red kind which is more expensive.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), September 25, 1999.


I mean... pay the road tax.

-- Dancr (addy.available@my.webpage), September 25, 1999.

Today,9/28/99,I purchased 12 gallons of kerosene. The young lady behind the counter did ask that I sign a log type of document. The document was supposed to some how stop a business from purchasing the clear kerosene(I have to admit that at that point I had no idea of kerosene varieties)for other than residential use. She required no proof of identity and the signitures/addresses for the most part were illegible. It would be nearly impossible for the gov. to utilize this as an intellegence source.

-- Douglas Nolan (risknolan@netscape.com), September 28, 1999.

If anyone has noticed Craig sports an e-mail address from Canada. A Socailist State. So sure he is going to be uncomfortable with our American paranioa. I do bussiness in Canada and most of what I have noticed is that Canadians are NOT afraid of their government. They are used to being taken care of more though, but many don't want the care, because that means high taxes. Taxes most Americans would probably revolt over, but they can't really with out any guns besides hunting rifles and shotguns.

-- Robert (kilo101@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

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