* * * 19990929 Wednesday

Subject: [Survivalist issues]Passive (non-lethal), low-tech, woodpile protection strategies? ...

Can anyone provide insights re passive (non-lethal), low-tech, woodpile protection strategies?

The opportunity for "early" Y2K marauders to abscond with precious resources is a concern when property is unattended.

Non-lethal dissuasion would be the most desirable approach--pre-Y2K! More "stringent"--post-Y2k--approaches are welcome, too!

Thank you in advance for thoughtful input!

Regards, Bob Mangus

P.S.: Wood stacked 1-wide (18"-22") AND criss-crossed on ( 4' by 4' ) heavy-duty pallets in an 8' by 8' by 6' (height); tarp-covered.

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-- Robert Mangus (rmangus1@yahoo.com), September 29, 1999

Answers

store in a building with locks that are hard to break. Put it in a fenced area with guard dog. Put in area where no one has access.

-- chicken farmer (chicken-farmer@ y2k.farm), September 29, 1999.

I agree with the above answer, out of sight out of mind.

You might get a non see though fence that is tall enough to keep people from seeing the wood. You could then buy some barb wire to cover the fenced in area if things get dicy later, but I would wait to install that.

Fencing around your whole property is a good idea.

-- Helium (Heliumavid@yahoo.com), September 29, 1999.

If there is a local present nearby, give him free firewood and in return ask that he keep an eye on your property. See if there's anything else you can think of that he might like to have or need. Good neighbors and good fences.

Use barbed wire.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), September 29, 1999.

At a minimum, chain a dog to it (not a labrador, they'll want to play). Remember, most thefts are thefts of opportunity. Deny the opportunity.

-- James (jpeet@u.washington.edu), September 29, 1999.

One of my concerns is that every house in this neighborhood has a fireplace and chimney. Some have converted to gas fireplaces, however. On the other hand, of the hundreds of homes, less than a dozen have less than a cord of firewood (seasoned or unseasoned). According to the others who have less than a cord, neighbors have taken firewood that was stacked in open sight in good times. So I've been wondering how will they view my two cords gas or electricity is off for a few days?

I expect the honest neighbors would want to buy some of my firewood at first (during the first day or two of gas and electricity being off). The yuppies that can pay will get the same price as if they had gone to 7-11: $10 for an arm load and $5 for a box of matches. Those who can't pay or do need help will get what I can spare. I'm willing to sell and give away up to one cord, but that's all. Of course, I'll distribute flyers with maps to the nearest shelter to the neighborhood on day one.

Before the rollover, I will have some one distribute for me a copy of the UTNE Y2K reader and other materials to the entire neighborhood in December. These materials will include phone numbers and web addresses of local places to get Y2K supplies, firewood, water barrels, and lots more. Following Koskinen's lead (grin), I have arranged for a local Y2K supplies retailer to hit the neighborhood with his flyers sometime in October. So having a local Minnesota Smith is not such a bad thing after all.

Fencing seems like a good idea if you have money. Concerned about my dogs going over the fence, I recently got estimates to get my 4 foot chain link up to 8 feet (less than 1/3 of an acre). The best estimate was $2500. Too expensive for me. Still, I will be moving wood off the unfenced driveway into the fenced back yard. I'm also getting a dog door so the dogs can go out and corner thieves on their own accord. Of course, this requires posting warning signs every 7 feet or so on the fence.

Back in the old days when Y2K discussion was run more by survivalists, some suggested various alarms such as Shomer Tec's firing device that fires a blank shotgun shell when wire is tripped. Where I live, this is considered the same as owning an illegal fire arm such as a sawed off shotgun or an automatic weapon. The local penalties are the same. Shomer Tec also has a glow stick device that is also activated by a trip wire. Still, someone will need to be there to say hello to their neighbors.

On the other hand, you can put the wood piles near a solar powered or normally powered security light (one that activates by a motion dector). You can find a variety of these kind of lights at Hechingers, Home Depot, etc. They sell for less than $30 usually (solar may be more expensive) but installation by an electrician may be a hundred bucks or more. The point of these security lights are to keep honest people honest, but you may also need to be around to greet your neighbors.

I plan to have some "clean" firewood and newspaper logs in the house. I don't know how much I can afford of the clean firewood, but I doubt that I would voluntarily stick around for a few more days if things had gotten so bad that my neighbors had taken all my firewood despite the dogs. I assume that the dogs would be dead in such an event and that the police were not responding to my calls or communications. I would like to think that such terrible events are unlikely to unfold.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), September 29, 1999.

A person with as wrench can open any chain link fence gate in about 1 1/2 minute. So can a someone determined with a hack saw---taking a hammer and beating a bend in the bolts works for the first--don't know about the 2nd--I covered my wood with dull green tarp and it is surprising how it tends to blend in.

-- catherine plamondon (thinklike@theif.com), September 29, 1999.

We use compressed sawdust logs, which are bug-free and have to be stored indoors. We keep them in the garage (attached).

My mom is a reluctant GI (she's even started pestering her friends about getting ready, which is a BIG change) and really didn't want wood in the garage. She wanted it out on the deck where it looks nicer. You bet, Mom. So we gave her a token pile where it looks nice, and the rest in the garage. Hey, we're making progress.

Our best woodpile protection is not how we store our wood, or whether we have heavy weapons to defend it, but that nearly all our neighbors have wood of their own. Your best protection comes from living near people you can depend on, and who (like you) are prepared for problems. (I realize that for many this is a dream.)

-- bw (home@puget.sound), September 29, 1999.

Catherine,

I have no doubt that people can get through even a tall chain link fence, a tall stockade fence, or whatever. During the South Central Los Angeles riots, regular people got through the bars and gates barring entrance to stores -- in less than five minutes. A fence helps keep honest people honest. Concealing the wood with a tarp sounds like a good idea and keeping it inside the house is an even better idea. But if you live in the wrong place and the unlikely happens, you might also consider that it is time to grab the bug out bags and get going. If things get even worse, people will have smelled and seen the smoke coming out of the chimney and it won't be long that they are coming into the house. Of course, some folks may be well armed in that event.

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), September 29, 1999.

Well, this brings up a question that's long been puzzling me about my own situation. My source of water is a spring that feeds two 8,000 gallon cisterns, the lids of which are at ground level in my side yard. Because of this year's drought, the water supply is low. Everyone else in my immediate area has a well. A creek runs through the town. But I am concerned that I may have the only source of potable water around. I'm storing water, of course; but my supply is still small, enough for my family for maybe 2 weeks. Folks will need water long before they need food. What are my options, beyond trying to convince my neighbors to prepare? Any suggestions appreciated!

-- Faith Weaver (suzsolutions@yahoo.com), September 29, 1999.

Start a new thread faith, cuz you may not get many answers, given that this is a thread for firewood.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), September 29, 1999.