goldmine.txt                                               1999-10-03



Gold mine, and various Index and options mentions from various Yourdon Y2K
forum thread posts.



Dates of posts are in [..]
Prices and estimates are of those dates, not "today".



URLs are abbreviated to the last 4 characters, which are unique, and are in
parenthesis (..).  Append to "http://www.greenspun......?msg_id=00"
Note: the last 6 characters are probably CASE SENSITIVE.



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STOCK OPTIONS



Jan 2000 WalMart (WMT) LEAP                      (various) (0gV2) [1999-04-04]



Dec 2000 SPX LEAP PUTS                              W F Ko (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     Large bid/ask spread; use limit orders



Jan 2001 IBM LEAPS Put Options                     freddie (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     Doubled (??)



Dec 2000 mini S&P 1325 Put ($3750)                  Dave W (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     Bought mid June. Time value evaporating. Intrinsic now ~$1850



Oct 2000 OEX 600 put (exp 10/15)                   David L (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     OEX Index now ~670; strike 600 selling at ~2 ($200)
     If OEX goes to 500 by 10/15, Put would be worth ~$10,000



??  300 GC call                                     Dave W (1TDW) [1999-09-25]



Short SPDR's or QQQ's?                                mike (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
SPDR's own S&P 500; traded on AMEX like a stock
QQQ's own NASDAQ 1000; traded on AMEX like a stock
DIA's own Dow 30 Industrials; traded on AMEX like a stock
     Usually are the AMEX volume leaders



S&P 500 options                                      Gregg (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     Liquid. Recommend using Clearing Member as broker
S&P 500 LEAP options                              Dan Hunt (04Ne) [1999-04-22]
     Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE)
     Get "American" style (exercisable at any time)



Mar 2000 (?) S&P 950 put option                      Gregg (1TDW) [1999-09-25]
     Cost ~$3000
     If in three months (~Dec 1999), if S&P at 900, option worth ~$23,000



Jan 2001 Put Options (general)                     freddie (1VQX) [1999-10-02]



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METALS OPTIONS



Feb 2000 Gold 300 calls (COMEX)              Harvey Wilson (1TTb) [1999-09-26]



"Gold Options"                                 David Butts (1UqQ) [1999-09-30]
     Bought monday (Nov 29?) for delivery mid Nov
     Paid $120 per option; in one day went to $1000.



Dec 1999 Gold 320 calls                             nospam (1VMU) [1999-10-01]



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MINES



Barrick



Battle Mountain Gold (BMG)
     2-3/16                                      Flierdude (1TTb) [1999-09-26]
     Gonna buy 20,000 more shares if under $2.50 Flierdude (1TTb) [1999-09-26]
     Up 60%                                      Flierdude (1TTb) [1999-09-26]



Caledonia Mining (CALVF)
     Up 126.7% (from where?). Has seen $8.00     Flierdude (1Tmq) [1999-09-27]



Durban Deep -- South African gold mine (DROOY)
     Durban Roodepoort Deep LTD ADR (NASDAQ)     Tom Carey (1Utt) [1999-10-01]
     Higher cost, but huge deposits                goldbug (1UGG) [1999-09-28]
      If price goes to 350 or 400, price will explode
     1.69                                        Flierdude (1TTb) [1999-09-26]
     ~$2 a share                         todays Tom Sawyer (1TcH) [1999-09-27]
     2-11/32 at 10:00est                 todays Tom Sawyer (1U24) [1999-09-28]
     will buy until at 5                 todays Tom Sawyer (1Ucj) [1999-09-29]
     up & down                                   Tom Carey (1Ucj) [1999-09-29]
      $9 in 1997 Feb; $1.50 in 1997 Dec; $3.72 in 1998 Oct; $1.25 in 1998 Aug
     comments                            todays Tom Sawyer (1VIy) [1999-10-01]
      DROOY, Barrick, NEM, HGCMY, Harmony



Franco Nevada (FNMCF) on Toronto exchange
     recommended                                   goldbug (1UGG) [1999-09-28]



(NEM)



Harmony (HGMCY)
     recommended                                   goldbug (1UGG) [1999-09-28]



Pan American



(VENGF) ?                                todays Tom Sawyer (1U7p) [1999-09-28]
(VNGF.OB) ?
     for putting play money into         todays Tom Sawyer (1Tmq) [1999-09-27]



Greenstone (GRE:T)                                     Jim (1Tmq) [1999-09-27]
Geomaque (GEO:T)                                       Jim (1Tmq) [1999-09-27]
Placer Dome (PDG-T)                                    Jim (1Tmq) [1999-09-27]



////////////////////
FUNDS



Canadian Central Fund (CEF) on NYSE
     Holds only gold and silver bullion



Franklin Gold Fund



Prudent Bear Fund (BEARX)
     www.prudentbear.com -- David Tice, Manager



Vanguard has a gold/metals fund                  Amy Leone (1UGG) [1999-09-29]
     primarily into mines -- 	www.vanguard.com



////////////////////
MISC



Pan American Silver Corp., Vancouver, B.C.             Ray (1Ucn) [1999-09-29]
     BILL GATES into 10.3% of it
     6-11/16, up 2/16 (NASDAQ)
     Other holdings:
      Chaparral Resources Inc (oil and gas in Kazakhstan
      Schnitzer Steel Industries Inc
      ICOS Corp (biotech)



What about Silver?
     Buffet and Gates                              Liberty (1UfZ) [1999-09-29]
     G/S Ratio                                          Ed (1UfZ) [1999-09-29]
      Ages past, was 16 to 1.  Has been 30 to 1 and as high as 70 to 1
      Should be about 16 to 1.
     G/S Ratio                                  Jim the WW (1UfZ) [1999-09-29]
      Historically 14 to 1. Today 56 to 1.  Silver a good bet



////////////////////
END

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 03, 1999

Answers

Damn A why are you gathering all this info? Are you mad because nobody is buying alpabet soup and you've cornered the market on A's.

-- David Lee Roth (Diver Down@Van Halen.ou812), October 03, 1999.

A!!!

You're doing a fantastic job, but for a lot of folks it may be too late...

from another forum

Ray Patten (10/3/99; 11:30:48MDT - Msg ID:15271) Possible Comex bankruptcy.

On Thursday, my commodity broker said that only market orders were allowed in the Gold options pit...no limit orders. I scaned my 38 years of commodity trading experience to try to remember a similar occurance, but I could not. I thought "These guys must be desperate." Then I looked at the numbers. As of Thursdays close, there were about 525,000 Gold calls outstanding. The floor traders or locals are the people who usually wright or sell us options. They have been getting our money for the last three years. As of September 21st, the committment of traders report said that the large traders were long only about 25,000 contracts. That means that the locals could be naked short over 400,000 calls. With an open interest of just over 200,000, where are they going to find the liquidity to get hedged. If Gold were to go up to $400 per ounce, their loss could be upwards of $4 billion. That could be enough to bring down the exchange.

I've had the idea for a long time that if Gold was ever freed, it would go straight to about $475 without a decent thechnical correction. It now looks to me like it will be there before the end of this month.

It's pay back time, but i'm not going to stay for the last tick. It may be that if the exchange closes, I may get nothing.

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 03, 1999.

Andy and all: I forgot to mention, that though Andy is not on that list I posted above, Andy, through his many posts, was the "cause" of probably most of those posts. So thanks, Andy.

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 03, 1999.

Andy -- the options exchange doesn't have to go bankrupt. They can just change the rules to screw all the Call holders. Just like they screwed the Hunt brothers in the silver futures market many years ago. :-)

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 03, 1999.

So, Andy, A, anybody: The Fed meets this week. Care to venture a prediction on a rate hike? I'm guessing no increase with a change to a tightening bias.

-- DaveW (dwood@southwind.net), October 04, 1999.

A,

you're probably right - the last thing the fed needs is comex to close so gold trading goes to london - next thing

oil will be paid and traded in Euros' s ha ha ha :)

Plus - number 1 priority is the stock market...

we will see, not looking good...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 04, 1999.

I'll go with that Dave but Europe on thursday will probably scupper that plan in their second volley over the USS Titanic when they raise THEIR interest rates... ho ho ho :)

GO DROOY!

GO HGMCY!

GO AU!

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 04, 1999.

Andy,

Your post included:

""These guys must be desperate." Then I looked at the numbers. As of Thursdays close, there were about 525,000 Gold calls outstanding. The floor traders or locals are the people who usually wright or sell us options. They have been getting our money for the last three years. As of September 21st, the committment of traders report said that the large traders were long only about 25,000 contracts. That means that the locals could be naked short over 400,000 calls. With an open interest of just over 200,000, where are they going to find the liquidity to get hedged. If Gold were to go up to $400 per ounce, their loss could be upwards of $4 billion. That could be enough to bring down the exchange."

Question: can you clear up the arithmetic? 525,000 gold calls, but only 200,000 open interest?

Then there's the other kind of question: for months there have been posts about all kinds of manipulators who have been shorting gold, but now, all of a sudden, it seems that it's the local traders at the COMEX!? Who's on first?

Jerry

-- Jerry B (skeptic76@erols.com), October 04, 1999.

Jerry,

The reason I steered clear of options on gold was prcisely because of the shenanigans going on now - it's now what you know it's who you know or how "big" you are! - I believe flierdude (mike) on this forum also has a few stories to tell. So I'm not an expert on Comex, the maths escapes me... but I've heard from many sources that they are getting ripped off... trying to collect...

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 04, 1999.

All I know is that in the FUTURES markets, one "open interest" is one long and one short. In the options market, you got four alternatives -- sell a Call, buy a Call, sell a Put, and buy a Put. So how open interest in the options markets is figured, I don't know.

And as we've seen, there are off-exchange transactions as well (the "forward" market), so those numbers showing many more calls than open interest could have something to do with that.

Even in normal times, you got to watch these carefully, and these are not normal times. For me, like Andy, I'm on the sidelines on these. (And not to mention that I should know about open interest vs Calls before I did get involved.)

-- A (A@AisA.com), October 04, 1999.

Anyone know if NEM is hedged or not?

-- Andy (2000EOD@prodigy.net), October 04, 1999.