A visit to the doctor and Y2K

greenspun.com : LUSENET : TimeBomb 2000 (Y2000) : One Thread

Yesterday I went to the doctor because of severe lung congestion, something that has long been a problem. Durning the visit I mentioned that I was a programmer and had concerns about Y2K and the availabilty of medical care. I asked if he could recommend a herbal medicine that had antibiotic qualities. He recommended Echinacea. He also gave me a prescription to fill which was an antibiotic. I filled the prescription yesterday afternoon and when I got home my wife noticed that the prescription was good for a refill by 10/05/2000. He obviously knows that I plan to get the refill before the end of this year and stash it away. For me it was a godsend.

If anyone reading this is familar with Echinacea and it's benifits I would love to hear your comments. This area of prepardness is in my opinion much neglected. We have two young boys and my greatest fear is dying on them in the middle of a Y2K crisis.

-- Ed (ed@lizzardranch.com), October 07, 1999

Answers

ED-I don't really know the botanical or chemical reasons for its efficacy, yet my wife and I have used Echinacea (known as nature's penicillin!) for a number of years. Viruses being viruses, colds and flu are only partly relieved, yet with a combined dose of 500mg of Vitamin C in the AM and again in the PM, the severity of an oncoming cold definitely diminishes. Echinacea alone seems to be effective for a wide variety of problems from cough, conjestion, cramping, etc. I appreciate how antedotal all this is, but lay in a supply for the upcoming "fun" and use it. It can't hurt and often helps a lot.

-- Bill (bill@SHF.com), October 07, 1999.

Ed,

Echinacea is great stuff. You can be fairly relaxed about the quantity you take, because there are no nasty side effects--although my understanding is that it shouldn't be taken for more than a few days at a time. If I feel a cold coming on, I will take a couple eye- droppers' full (liquid tincture is better than tablet form) 3x/day until I feel better. It can be taken straight (good topical throat antibiotic this way), or in juice for little kids. Subjectively, it seems to me that echinacea's effect is to blunt both the intensity and duration of a cold. To put it another way, you still get the symptoms, just less intense than otherwise and for a shorter period. For flu as opposed to cold symptoms, there's something better: an OTC product called Oscillococcinum [Os-sillo-ko-chee-num] made by a company called Boiron (no affiliation w/ them on my part...). Can be gotten at most stores that sell echinacea tincture, I would think. This stuff totally zaps flu bigs. Again, greatly lessens severity of symptoms--you know you've been sick, you just don't suffer nearly as much.

-- PH (ag3@interlog.com), October 07, 1999.


Ed-Forgot to mention. My wife and I are both Registered Nurses and while we would never ever recommend not taking a prescription antibiotic for the whole course of treatment, if you do run "short" at some future time, you can conserve some of the last days pills if symptoms have disappeared. Again use the Echinacea at this point for continued natural antibiotic. BTW my 12yo daughter has been maintaining status quo for the last three days on Echinacea after being exposed to a throat infection from 2 of her friends who were out of school for a week. She has a sore throat and swollen glands, but they are not getting any worse, and I would like her to fight it off herself and build her own antibodies, than kill it with an antibiotic. Also, in the spirit of this forum-splitting wood with an 8# maul will help stir up those lung alveoli and lessen the chance of future lung congestion. It's very satisfying to burn that piece of wood that took you so long to make small enough to go in the stove!!!

-- Bill (Bill@SHF.com), October 07, 1999.

Echinacea angustifolia

Medical Immune enhancer for skin diseases and general infections
A herb valued by North American Indians and frontiersmen of the USA, pruple coneflower became a famed remedy for snake bite and for cleansing and for healing suppurative wounds. Today herbalists regard it as one of the finest blood cleansers, especially for skin problems, such as boils and abcesses, associated with impure blood.
Echinacea has a deserved reputation for enhancing the immune system. Research shows that it stimulates the production of white blood cells, which fight infection. For this reason, the plant may be useful in treating viral infections.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
from: The New Age Herbalist
Richard Mabey author
Published by Simon and Schuster, A Fireside book.



-- Landscape Architect (balzer@lanset.com), October 07, 1999.


Ed Get Golden Seal Root in your Echinacea. Golden Seal is a natural antibiotic, It makes the Echinacea 100% better. All so do not get the one with alcohol,get it with glycerine extract

-- Pam Ramsey (Oct47@webtv.net), October 07, 1999.


"Again, greatly lessens severity of symptoms--you know you've been sick, you just don't suffer nearly as much."

Brandy, hot water, honey and lemon help with the suffering bit too.

Cheyanne pepper capsules have helped me out a lot this past year. Some of those, garlic and lots of vitamin C seem to kick butt on anything thats tried to creep up on me. I made a trip to Costco and bought big stocks of all the vitamins and herbal supplements I take.

DCK

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), October 07, 1999.


ED,

I just bought marshmallow root and a herbal health book.The book says about marshmallow root:

Marshmallow contains mucilag which helps expectorate diffact phlegm and relax the bronchial tubes.The soothing and healing properties of marshmalllow mucilage make the herb valuable for many lung ailments,especially asthma.Marshmallow is also a powerful anti- infllammatory and anti-irratant which makes it good for joints and gastrointestinall disorders.Marshmallow heals the irritations associated with diarrhea and dysentery.Used externally as a poultice with cayenne,it can be used to treat blood poisoning,gangrene,burns,bruises,and wounds.Marshmalllow contains 286,000 units of vitamin A per pound.It is also rich in calcium and zinc and has iron,sodium,iodine,B-complex,and pantothenic acid.

Primary applications

astma,boils emphysema,lung congestion,bleeding,urinary,bronchial infections,kidneys,wounds,infected.

secondary applications

breast problems,catarrh,dry cough,diarrhea,sore eyes,gravel,lactation,mucous membranes,stomach problems,urinary infections,burns(acid or fire),constipation,diabetes,dysenty,glands,intestines,liver problems,skin,and sore throat.

Book Today's Herbal Health---The essential referance guide by Louise Tenney,M.H.

Mabe it would help you.A friend of mine uses it for congestion and says it really works.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), October 07, 1999.


Ed, Echinacea is good. I like the Herbs, Etc. drops. You can actually take a couple of drops every hour if the cold is coming on, to fight it. (I heard their herbalist speak about this.) It is an herb that you can take for periods of time, but not month after month. Say, you take it for a couple of weeks, then stop for a week--like that. It's called "pulsing" the herb. Many herbs need to be pulsed.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

Some herbs like echinacea are more effective if extracted with alcohol. Vitamin C is definitely a plus/must. Garlic and cayenne can be taken all the time. They will lower your cholesterol.

-- Mara Wayne (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 08, 1999.

I worked for a healthfood store for 6 years. Echinacea is good and can be grown in your backyard. It is a pretty flower and obviously useful. I can never say enough about Vitamin C and drinking plenty of water. Every time I excrete, I drink more water. For Several years now I've been taking 10,000 milligrams of Vitamin C a day and never get sick. I realize you excrete most of it and 10 grams is overkill. I've been a Linus Pauling (pulitzer prize winner) follower for some time as he recommended megadoses of Vitamin C. Really the ultimate is 2 grams in the morning, 2 grams at noon and 2 grams before you go to bed. I take powder vitamin C of a pharmaceutical grade and buy it by the Kilo at about 45$ per Kilo or 2.2 lbs. I take it religiously 5 grams in the morning and 5 grams before I retire. You have to brush your teeth with baking soda to rid the acid from destroying the enamel of your teeth. The Am. Pm. usage gives me a brushing routine for good oral hiegene. My wife gets sick a few times a year and we can practically exchange body fluids and ZIP.....zero illness for me due to my excentric Vitamin C usage. It really makes you feel like your on some kind of buzz immediately when taking powder form. Most people get the runs after 4 grams. I certainly did for some time but my tolerance for it increased and no longer does diarrhea take place. I keep 10 lbs. of it with me at all times and it lasts for 3 yrs. It also eliminates free radicals from your body which promotes aging. That was Linus Pauling whole point. It is the fountain of Youth. I'm almost 40 and damsure do not look it. Don't forget to purchace mammouth amounts of baking soda if you buy lots of C. Whole Foods Market carries it in the Kilo Tubs.

-- Feller (feller@wanna.help), October 08, 1999.


My research on Echinacea found that it is useful for building up your immune system. As such it is useful to take when exposed to a viral infection as it can lessen the severity of the illness. I have been told that Echinacea can be taken on a continual daily basis without ill effects. I can vouch from personal experience for the effectiveness of Goldenseal as a natural antibiotic. I have used it several times to cure respiratory baterial infections and once for a gum abcess that came up over a weekend. Goldenseal does not seem to cause yeast/candida overgrowths in the intestinal tract like most antibiotics often do. Goldenseal should not be taken on a continual basis as it can lower your immune system after long term use. Take it like you would an antibiotic ( 3-4 times a day for 10-14 days). I've known two families that have given both herbs to children over the age of six with no ill effects.

Hope this helps.

-- G.S. (hateyo@netscape.net), October 08, 1999.


ED, READ THIS!!!!

Go to www.silversolutions.com

Ed, this is by far "THE" best answer to your problem! I always used to get pneumonia once a year. Since I applied www.silversolutions.com advice for the last 5 years, NO MORE PNEUMONIA! Go to it right now and get educated about the best antibiotic in the world!

PS. Your doctor does not want you to go to that web site!

-- freddie (freddie@thefreeloader.com), October 08, 1999.


Ed-- i also highly recommend echinacea.when taken at the first signs of a cold or flu, it will usually zap it within a coule of days before it even gets started. i also agree with Mara that(as opposed to many supplements) it is best to use echinacea that also contains alcohol extract.also try to get a standardized product if possible. i prefer the liquid tincture. refrigerate after opening. to test if the brand you bought is effective, put a couple of drops on your tongue. it should cause a distinct numb taste after a minute- otherwise it is not effective. to build immunity in the absence of infection, halve the adult dose and stay on the remedy for two weeks at a time; echinacea loses it's efficacy when taken continually;it is better totake it for two weeks at a time, alternating with two weeks off. good luck ed-- i hope your winter is illness free.

-- dory (crtwheel@eburg.com), October 08, 1999.

where can you get echinacea seeds?? please somebody email a location to my address, Imay not be back to this forum for a bit, thanX

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 08, 1999.

Echinacae is an awesome herb. It is native to the prairies of the midwest. The common name is Purple Coneflower. All parts of the plant have medicinal value with the highest concentration being in the seeds and roots. It is an excellant preventative. I take masses of it whenever flu season hits or I am getting ready to travel. It is also really good for gum problems and tooth aches. It is most potent in tincture form (soaked in alcohal and strained). As a capsule only the freeze dried kind is worth anything as it has a very short shelf life. You can also drink it in a tea.

Golden seal is a good antibiotic but rare and expensive. Garlic works great, cayenne (capsicum) capsules work better. Nature is full of antibiotic and antiseptic herbs. Lavendar, for example, makes a very strong antiseptic wash. As does sage. Find out what grows in your area. If you tell me where you are I can probably find out for you. My e-mail is real.

Here in the Northwest coast we have usnea. Incredible herb. In general the worse an herb tastes the stronger a medicine it is. When getting herbs into kids it helps to have lots of honey on hand.

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 08, 1999.



Ed,

If you're a nurse then you know about rheumatic fever - the antibodies made against the strep bacterium that attack the body's own heart valves. Letting a child's own immune system take care of the problem sounds great but this is the risk you run.

Feller, Linus Pauling won the Nobel Prize twice, but never the Pulitzer as far as I know.

Disclaimer - I'm an MD and therefore, obvously, part of the conspiracy, but there's my opinion.

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), October 08, 1999.


I have chronic sinus infections, and I've spent a minute or two explaining Y2K to my doctor at each visit. He moved back to New York recently, but gave me a big bag of Zithromax and Augmentin (antibiotics) to hang onto in case they're in short supply next year. Echinacea is good stuff, but I would suggest using it three weeks on, three weeks off. While it does help to boost your immune system, it would be better for those with recurring infections to stock up on the antibiotics usually used. Ask your doctor for some of the samples in the closet. The drug company sales reps will re-stock the closet next week, and you really need to have several courses of the drug on hand.

-- Hilda (I'm@n RN.com), October 08, 1999.

Ed, your greatest fear is also mine.

From what I understand, echinacea is an immune system stimulant, it has been described as a 'call to arms' for your immune system. My husband and children take echinacea, and it seems to help them to have less severe and shorter bouts with colds and respiratory problems. I don't find that it has that effect on me, my guess as to why is that I don't get respiratory problems until I get run down and / or stressed out, and the only thing that helps is to rest up.

Another herb I have read about but never taken is astralagus. This herb is known as an immune system regulator. It will act to stimulate the immune system, or to tone it down if it is overactive. This indicates that it may be safer for extensive use, as an overstimulated immune system can cause problems.

Do a search for Grapefruit Seed Extract. I've been taking this for Candida overgrowth, and it has been helpful. It's being touted as an effective broad spectrum antimicrobial.

Thyme is a potent antibacterial. It can be drunk as tea (i teaspoon of dry herb in a cup of hot water, let steep at least 10 minutes, add honey if desired). The essential oil (just a few drops) can be put into a hot bath. The essential oil or a teaspoon of the dry herb can be put into a pot of water and heated. Put the pot of hot water on the table, drape a towel over your head and hang over the pot, breathing in the steam. Lavender also has antibacterial and antiviral properties. The dry herb or essential oil can be used for baths or facial steam just described for thyme. Ditto for lemon essential oil.

When I've had a cold, I've made garlic, lemon and honey tea. Squish a clove of garlic into a cup, add the juice of half a lemon (a teaspoon or two of cider vinegar could be subsitiuted if no lemons) and a teaspoon of honey, and fill the cup with hot water. The garlic is antibiotic, and the honey and lemon are astringent and soothing for a sore throat. If you're sick, don't stint yourself on the garlic, make yourself positively reek!

I have been told that goldenseal can accumulate in the body over time, and build to toxic levels. It is also being overharvested. I'm told that Oregon Grape root extract is a viable substitute for goldenseal, having antibiotic properties.

If you take prescription anitbiotics, try to eat fermented food like yogurt. It replaces the beneficial bacteria in the intestine that are killed by the drugs. Probiotics can be purchased at health food stores and can be stored for a time also, check the label for details.

These are ideas for anyone to research further. I'm not a professional herbalist, I can only pass on what I have learned so far, and some things that work for me. This info is out on the web and can be searched for, or the local health food store will have information.

Be Healthy

-- Bingo (ecsloma@pronetisp.net), October 08, 1999.


Dr. Ned,

One quick thing-- it was Bill who is the nurse. Ed was the person asking for additional info about herbals with antibiotic qualities.

I was wondering, though, about a few things--Have you encountered many "GI" (get it) patients? How about GI colleagues? What is your view on y2k?

--

Others of you out there-- were you able to find a "GI" doctor? A few who've already responded seem to have.

Thanks,

nogiinmyhmo

-- nogiinmyhmo (nogi@inmy.hmo), October 08, 1999.


Right, it was Bill.

Couldn't tell you about GI patients or colleagues - I'm out of the doctor business, I write software now.

-- Ned (entaylor@cloudnet.com), October 08, 1999.


nogi - In my experience, you don't generaly have to find a GI doctor to be comfortable about a medication supply. Most doctors I know of will write an extra antibiotic prescription; that's done quite regularly for people traveling overseas, etc. Usually it's just a matter of asking. While I have heard of several doctors declining to prescribe extra for something that they do not consider life- threatening, or pooh-poohing Y2K concerns, IF they're pressed by a patient, none I know have refused in the long run to supply at least some extra of a regularly taken medication (high blood pressure, etc.)

The most confrontational doctor-patient issue I've heard of is a friend whose Dr. refused to cooperate in her obtaining extra of medecine she must have. After his refusal she just said, "All right, if that's how you feel. Will you please sign this form here saying that I asked for this because of my concerns about Y2K disruptions and you refused?" He wrote the prescription. From what I've seen, it depends more on how well patients "hang tough" than anything else.

Now the insurance companies are a whole 'nother matter. Anyone will likely have to pay for any extra prescriptions out of their own pocket.

Also, if anyone is not planning on getting extra of medications they take regularly because it isn't necessarily life threatening if you must go without them, still be sure to ask your doctor what the safest way to withdraw from the medication is, if it ever does come to that. Often you must be "weaned" off a med to be safe and can't just stop cold turkey. Our doctor has been very good about educating his patients re all potential aspects of any medication, but unfortunately most need to be asked. A pharmacist can often help you with this information,too.

-- Bonnie Camp (bonniec@odyssey.net), October 08, 1999.


Ned-the doctor, this is Bill the nurse. You're of course absolutely right about potential heart valve problems following a strep bacteria infection. I would not want anyone to think they should not follow an active antibiotic regime if prescribed by their physician. However, I also believe strongly that the development of drug resistant bacteria is the result of an overprescribed and overused antibiotic society. How many times were you asked for an antibiotic from a patient who was suffering from a cold/flu? The majority of people do not understand the difference between a viral infection and a bacterial one. I appreciate your concerns for my daughter and can report that after three days of "home" remedies (and very careful monitoring!) her throat shows no redness and her swollen glands have returned to normal size. Bill

-- Bill (Bill@SHF.com), October 08, 1999.

Ed, I always buy the ricola cough syrup and losenges with ecinachea. It contains about 30 other herbs in it also. Sometimes it's hard to find but you can have them order it at the pharmacy. Get's my children over the colds, flu, etc....

-- Terri (me@home.cm), October 24, 1999.

Moderation questions? read the FAQ