Please Forgive, for all of those single young y2l aware guys out there, I have a bit of a conundrum for you. One of my many goals in life is to eventually marry and raise a family. now, I believe y2k will be at least an 8. assuming I am right, and social order is disrupted for a lenghty period, should I seek out women who were mature before y2k? matured during? perhaps those born afterwards? In the first case, the pros are that tehy would probably be educated, and close to my own age. but the cons: they could be badly traumatized, or in bad heatlh. In the second case, they would hav been immunized before y2k, but cons: they will hav grown up in possibly horrific conditions. and inthei third case pros: they will be survivors, or children of survivors, but I may not have much in common with them (imagine trying to explain the taste of a coke to a girl twenty years your junior!) I know this sounds like i'm appraising livestock or something, but I think from an anthropological point of view the issue should be addressed.

-- jeremiah (Braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999

Answers

(1) Prepare.

(2) Survive.

(3) Meet someone who has done the same...

-- Mad Monk (madmonk@hawaiian.net), October 09, 1999.

Let's turn it around, shall we? Suppose I'm a twenty year old GI Fem who has managed just fine, thank you. I'm as armed and dangerous as you are. I've got plenty of food. Or I can get it...(sleep well, tonight, hehehe...) Maybe I am part of a group already. What are YOUR qualifications? Why should I submit to your (ahem!) "authority"? Name one good reason why I should give up my freedom to become a S,F and D housewife? "Barefoot in Winter, pregnant in Summer"? (snicker) What if I have six smiling boyfriends already?

-- chairborne commando (what-me-worry@armageddon.com), October 09, 1999.

It's sex my lady! Sexual attraction is what keeps the species going and going and going! It appears you haven't got it!

-- bbb (bbb@bbb.com), October 09, 1999.

I know this sounds like i'm appraising livestock or something, but I think from an anthropological point of view the issue should be addressed.

Yes it does sound like your appraising livestock and it's very offensive. What makes you think you're going to be in any better bargaining shape than a women after Y2K anyway?

As long as you're an arrogant putz, you're a liability and a danger in a crisis situation. I wouldn't want you and I certainly wouldn't want children dependent on a parent like you.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), October 09, 1999.

Well Jere, you really know how to put your foot in it...."chicks" was a bad term to start out with....though I also think there was a wee bit of over reaction to your post as well...

#1 Why in the heck do you think "those single young y2k aware guys" would be the best source of info? I'd imagine they would be the worst folks to ask advice of. Better to ask older folks with succesful marriages and relationships, especially (if you hadn't already pissed them off) women.

#2 To try and answer your question: You likely should evaluate each potential partner on their own merits. I don't think you should assume anyone "mature" pre Y2K should be in worse health or more traumatized than someone younger...in fact if things are really bad (which I doubt but prepare for anyway) they will likely be in better health.

#3 Personally I'm 48, was married 7 years and have a 10 year old son, not currently "involved"...plan to keep it that way for a while too. It's tough enough preping for the well-being of my son and I without adding another soul to the mix at this late date. This isn't to say that some gal couldn't be a real asset to our preps (I know some with better preps than mine, some of whom are better shots as well) but I'm so busy now it would likely be a distraction. I'm not ruling this out entirely but not actively pursuing.

Post Y2K I definitly will be super cautious of whoever I might become involved with and would only consider a relationship after quite a long opportunity to get aquainted and to know this person. I don't see this as being any different from a guy or gals perspective. A time of great stress isn't the time to make these sorts of decisions which have long term implications. Having a partner in life is good, especially in times of change...two heads can be far better than one. I just urge caution and offer a bit of advice: Hope clouds observation (Frank Herbert, Dune). If you are desperate to be in a relationship you may choose poorly.

DCK

-- Don Kulha (dkulha@vom.com), October 09, 1999.

I know, I know, but it was MEANT to be offensive. Sometimes people can't take a joke. But, how many times have men been treated like garbage on network TV show like ally Mcbeal? (ie the "dumbstick" comments) I don't see any outrage over that.. but ONE little post, just ONE little post and WHAM! That aside, I think Don has a good point. "young single guys" are probably the last people to ask for y2k 'romance' advice, but then again, what could be funnier? And, no, i'm not desperate to be in a relationship, if anything y2k has opened my eyes to how many people men and women are spiled decadent and useless in our society. "a plague on both your houses!"

(see? i'm not desperate... I'm bitter, there's a difference)

-- jeremaih (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

Yes, you were offensive. Even a grown son of mine would know better. If you want a breeder, advertise for a surrogate mother. If you want a housekeeper, hire one. If you want sex... well, figure that out.

On the other hand, if you want a MATE who will truly become a part of you, then here are some suggestions.

Look around for couples who have been married awhile and seem to be happy and still in love, then listen and watch. Try to understand what it is that makes it work for them.

Start reading. There are good pre-marital counseling books out there. They will help you avoid making a mistake.

You should be able to recognize someone who is healthy inwardly as well as someone who is physically healthy. Start with "Changes That Heal" by Dr. Henry Cloud to help with this discernment.

Last, I highly recommend "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Josh Harris. This book will help you make a wise choice, rather than merely a sexual choice. Sex is great, don't get me wrong, but the divorce rate will affirm that 'sex appeal' can be deceptive and fleeting. Go for the whole nine yards boy!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

Does not "chick" derive from "chicos",the spanish for girl?Once a woman dries up and the breasts start pointing south,suddenly the woman's role as sexual attractor is not appealing.Tough it's a man's world and y2k will most likely remove any illusions to the contrary.Single women had better get a man now while there's still time.How will they get a man?With sex,of course just like they have been bred to do.

-- women.are .property (it's @man's.world), October 09, 1999.

more women need to take up shooting sports,once the aspect of brute strength is removed tyrany towards the distaff will be much harder.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 09, 1999.

thanks zoobie, another good tip on the prep forum!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

women are property... I suggest not even meandering anywhere near our daughters. There will be seven males ready to defend the females they cherish as daughters, sisters and friends.

You have a serious problem. You will never know the sustaining joy of sharing your innermost being with a soulmate. I suggest therapy, and get it quickly before you try to acquire some 'property' that takes zoobie's advice.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 09, 1999.

women.are .property

There's a use for guys like you....

as target practice for women like me.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), October 09, 1999.

Hi Mumsie!

You're invited over to my house for tea and target practice, care to join me?

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), October 09, 1999.

wow, i didn't expect a "y2k battle of the sexes" here, but that's cool . Most people, ladies, get offended because they want to be, ie if your aren't offended by something, you may not be a good woman or a proper feminist etc, whatever. As far as women's roles as sexual attractors.. well, like it or not that seems to be the way it is. But, the ladies DO have a point about guns being the great equalizer... to bad all the soccer moms and rosie O'donnell fans would have you collect beanie babies in your spare time. I help teach self defense, and the women are usually the best listeners. Guys, (including myself) have a hard time being corrected on things, and form bad habits easily. Women listen, but rarely get as physical, they are usually worried about "hurting somebody" in training, but, hey, these things happen. in a perfect world, everybody would have a partner, but the main catch 22 is this, women of little worth, (bar flies) are most avialable to men. Women of hihger worht, are usually interested in "proving" that they don't need a man. Hence, why would a guy chase after a woman who didn't want him? ah ha! But, I'm not saying this is all the womans fault, but if these so called "cool gun toting chicks" are around, i haven't seen any. (maybe i should more time at the range eh?)

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 09, 1999.

to the guy that remarked about women being property... I will expand upon Mabel's comment... you would be the door mat outside my front door.

-- (all-female@here.now), October 09, 1999.

Damn- I thought I was going to learn about poultry

-- (rick@home.xcom), October 09, 1999.

no kidding rick...instead a rant on chicks/guns/impotent sexually insecure male (singular)/and sexism. Hey J, my advice: 1)Stop going out to meet women at bars. 2)Stock up on one of the follwing, A)saltpeter or B)an BIG pile of Smut Mags. Post Y2K is going to be dangerous enough without letting the "little head" do the thinking for you....

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasn@Yahoo.com), October 09, 1999.

Jeremiah,

I've yet to meet a person who managed to form a succesful relationship, by using the "grocery list" method. You start with a list of "specs" when purchasing a new stereo or computer (or, I guess, cattle).

The best (or perhaps I should say worst) example I ever saw of this, was when a friend of mine took out a personal ad that read, "Where are all the Jazz loving women of [name of my city]". He seemed to have this notion that he and his new beloved would spend endless hours lounging around the Hi-Fi, listening to David Sanborn, and that that would somehow constitute having a life. Seems he was disillusioned because all the women he'd met in his age group would rather go to a Led Zeppelin concert, than go the local Jazz Club. He viewed that as "having nothing in common".

He found someone. It ended up being the ugliest, messiest most name calling divorce I've ever seen. Seems my friend had overlooked little things like he was frugal - she was a charge-card junky, he was quick to anger - she liked everything smooth and unemotional, he was pragmatic - she was romantic, etc, etc, etc. Of course my friend chalked the whole thing up to her "not really being that much of a Jazz fan, after all" (he was thinking "Be-bop", she was thinking "Kenny G."). Sigh. Some people never learn.

You wanna meet someone? Drop the preconceived notions. Forget ideas about "she's gotta look a certain way, she's gotta talk a certain way, she's gotta think a certain way". It ain't that simple. If it were, we'd all have happy marriages. Your perfect "other half" might just end up being the last person on earth you thought you'd end up with. Put yourself in the position to meet people, keep an open mind, and someone will come along that you will click with.

(The quickest way to tell that you are about to make a really big boo-boo, is if you use the "grocery list" method, and the other person actually LIKES being sized up, like a slave at auction. Time to run like hell. Just a side-bar comment)

You gatta ask yourself, just what is it I'm looking for? Am I looking for a "charm"? A breeder? A servant? Or am I looking for someone to share my life and my soul with? Most people DO end up getting what they're looking for, you know.

-- Bokonon (bok0non@my-Deja.com), October 09, 1999.

Bokonon, good advice, as usual.

Women are property, I guess we'd better start calling YOU "chick", since "chico" is spanish for BOY.

Besa mi cula, chick, y la de mi hija, mi madre, mis hermanas, mi hija political, y todos de mis amigas y parientes.

Chao, pendejo.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 10, 1999.

One of my favorite quotes from someone whose name I can't spell..."There are two types of people,men and human beings.Yet if a woman asks to be treated as a human being,she'll be accused of wanting to be a man."-Lady Simon du (Boov-wah)....sorry,I flunked right out of French and took japanese,which at least looks like it sounds(in romanji,at least)

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 10, 1999.

zoobs,

Thanks for the blast from the past - Simone de Beauvoir. Wasn't she hooked up with Sartre? Now THAT was a couple! How do you 'spose they met?

-- flora (***@__._), October 10, 1999.

I thought this was supposed to be about chickens.

-- no talking please (breadlines@soupkitchen.gov), October 11, 1999.

The only way to insure a supply of post-Y2K chicks is to barter with someone skillful enough to keep pre-y2k chickens-&-roosters alive. :)

-- Dennis Law (PaulLaw@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Al, zoobie and Bokonon,

A big cyber kiss to you guys!

(Al, I'm not sure what you said, but it sounded good, LOL)

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 11, 1999.

Mabel, it would be so great to actually meet one day! I'll bring my favorite licorice tea!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 12, 1999.

Mumsie and Mabel,

I too, would like to meet you both. Although I have a feeling my stomach would hurt afterwards due to the comic relief...: )

You two are a one, two punch!

scratchin'...

The Dog

-- Dog (Desert Dog@-sand.com), October 12, 1999.

I was first married at the tender age of 18 and have now lived almost half a century. My past includes both lovers and husbands (but not at the same time - lol.) I am also a mother of both a grown daughter and a son, who I have raised by myself for most of the past decade. Since the death of my last husband, I have remained "single." I work two jobs and have a sort of homestead. I build, repair, cultivate most of it by myself.

There are some things I have difficulty doing by myself - due to lack of strength, inadequate tools or lack of knowledge. Yes, it is true - a strong man with a tool box and a shop course is nice to have around, but I would not marry just to acquire that or to acquire support, security or safety. The key word is "acquire." I would be making a measured contract to gain something in exchange for pledge of payment of something. The exchange bargain could be limitations on my freedom, my self-will, expectations of certain services (cooking, cleaning, washing, sex, etc.) In such a relationship, the partners always "count the beans" to evaluate whether the bargain remains equal. It invariably never does.

The whimsy and romantic in my heart and soul waits for a relationship that defies a question of measurement and renders it absurd: The strength that passes from one hand to another along tandem strides; the quiet joy and delight that bubbles in the simple watching of the other; the type of relationship that evokes the tender aid of spoon to mouth from partner to mate in final days; and the ache that yearns for wholeness again, straining the boundaries of physical form.

In my maturity, I conceive of the potential of a relationship that would have such great mental, emotional and physical intimacy that I would be "completed" in my potential as a human female, friend, partner and mate. I believe in the soul mate and it is for him I wait.

Those men on this forum that limit their potential to the "bargain" they can make denegrade themselves. They contract or take what could be freely given out of love, thus aclaiming themselves "unloveable." We cannot love another until we, first, learn to love ourselves.

-- wildiris (wildiris@awaitin.awhile), October 12, 1999.

oh, that's cute; can't love another until we love ourselves" I ask.. Why? (when i say that I mean: Why should we love ourselves?) think about it... what could possibly lead young bitter men, like myself to spontaneously start "loving ourselves" when our entire culture fosters hatred? And, no, i'm not jumping on the 'society did it to me bandwagon' I helped. But, when people suggest that all I need to get normal is a little warm fuzzy in my life, I laugh. I've been there, done that. people, whether strangers, family or whomever, despite what they say could really giv a shit if you live or die. How do I know this? never seen anything to prove the contrary, except for my own naivete(sp?). I don't think everybody is viscious and evil, just that indifference rules. Otherwise we wouldn't cry when 15 little snots get it in colorado when a thousands of little kids starve in Iraq so we can save anickel on gas. Why the hypocrisy? Indifference. besides, the parents of those little Iraqi kids should have thought of that before they decided tolive in a dictatorship where their kids can be conscripted at will and sent to fight in stupid powers struggles.... hey, wait a minute! This sounds eerily familiar! but, then again, I'm degenerating myself for being bitter... yeah... right.... but, back to the subject.... ladies, when you boil it down, men treat women like garbage (y'know use for sex, dump when old, get another routine) because there is no incentive to do otherwise. get a "life partner?" nah, just get a life. Don't get me wrong, i've tried being nice before, treat em like people, real respect, be a gentelman, the whole 9 yards.... it got me shit. I waited, watched, and it's true, women like to be treated like shit, it gives them something to prove. And, because I refuse to submit (note I dodn't say accept) to this kind of paradigm, I get none of the benefits, and all of the derision. And you wonder why im bitter? You lousy bastards.... all of you. you lousy bastards.

-- jeremiah (braoponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 14, 1999.

Just an other victim.

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 14, 1999.

Hi, Mumsie,

Suffice to say, my female relatives, friends, and I don't give the guy kudos.

Al

-- Al K. Lloyd (all@ready.now), October 14, 1999.

My wife thinks that the best book ever written on relationships is "The Bridge Across Forever" by Richard Bach. (This author is the same guy who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull".) TBAF is not at all a bad book on this subject IMHO, but I think that Robert Heinlein, Ayn Rand, and Robert Ringer have at least as much to say on this subject worth pondering.

www.y2ksafeminnesota.com

-- MinnesotaSmith (y2ksafeminnesota@hotmail.com), October 14, 1999.

J.

Attitude. Man, it's all in the attitude. You can be a gentleman all you want, but if you have a bad attitude, you are out the door. Adjust the tude and you may find what you are looking for. Better yet, don't look and it will find you.

-- (cannot-say@this.time), October 14, 1999.

I'm still waiting to hear about how to hatch and raise chicks in 2000. (grin)

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), October 14, 1999.

well, duh, I know it's attitude.. and I was right about one thing, the bitter loner thing doesn't score many points... the shiny happy people reproduce tha fastest, otherwise, y2k wouldn't be a problem, and denial would just be a river in egypt.... so, I'll stick to bitter and survive thank you, maybe after a few dozen my lai massacres i'll be so PTSD'ed i'll not remember a thing and learn to be happy.... Or not.

-- jeremiah (braponspdetroit@hotmail.com), October 15, 1999.

jeremiah...you sound bitter. When I met my husband, I was horribly bitter. I decided that men were self-serving spineless sh*ts out to use women, and that I could play that game and use them more. I was bitter because I had been hurt/betrayed. Somehow, my husband saw past the attitude. We have been best friends for almost 22 years now. And guess what? We only went out for three and a half weeks before getting engaged, married three and a half months after that. Miracles do happen. I still choose him above all men on this earth and consider him irreplaceably precious.

mumsies can be compulsive advice givers, and I have one more bit of advice for you...

Become the kind of person you would like to marry.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 15, 1999.