Speaking In Tonguesgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
I think there's a confusion among churches that one should receive the gift of the Holy Spirit & that this should be made manifest by speaking in tongues. As a Catholic, my view has been that, speaking in tongues is a gift from the Holy Spirit. What is really the teaching of our Lord, Jesus Christ, about speaking in tongues?
-- Mucha Matambanadzo (chumielobb@yahoo.com), October 14, 1999
Mucha,Excellent question. You're right, there is much confusion over speaking in tongues. Perhaps I can add some insight for your consideration.
First, a few scripture verses:
Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
Acts 10:46 "The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in other tongues and praising God."
Acts 19:6 "When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. "
Speaking in tongues refers to someone speaking in a language that is initiated and empowered by the Holy Spirit and one that is not known by the speaker. It is an evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is a sign to both the one baptized and to others that the Holy Spirit has come upon them.
In addition to being a sign, it is also a gift of the Holy Spirit. It has a function and purpose in the Body of Christ.
1. 1 COR 14:4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself.". So speaking in tongues is intended to edify or build us up, to strengthen us as believers. Specifically, it provides nourishment to our spirit. Just as we exercise and eat food to strengthen our physical bodies, we need to exercise and nourish our inner man or our spirit. We accomplish this through reading God's Word, prayer, worshiping and speaking in tongues.
2. 1 COR 14:14 "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. If you are praising God with yor spirit . . ." So speaking in tongues, which is also referred as praying in the "spirit", is used to pray and to sing to God. It is a wonderful way to worship God to sing in other languages as the Holy Spirit flows through you.
3. ROMANS 8:26 "We do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will." Praying in other tongues allows the Holy Spirit to pray through the believer in accordance with God's perfect will. What a powerful weapon for the church! I find that the more I pray in the spirit, that occasionally, the Holy Spirit changes what was a clear sounding language into more of a groaning and weeping. As this first began to happen years ago, I realized that is what Romans 8:26 was referring to.
4. Reading the entire chapters of 1 COR 12-14 will provide insight into the primary role of speaking in tongues as it relates to the Body of Christ. When the church is gathered together, the Holy Spirit can initiate a divine message to the church through someone who speaks in tongues when it is accompanied by another who can interpret the message (which is a different gift). I'd provide the scripture verses, but it is rather lengthy, so just read the chapters I referenced and I think you'll see. These messages can be encouragements to draw closer to God, rebuke over unrepentant sin or prophectic insight into future events.
So we can see that speaking in tongues has many purposes. But can every believer speak in tongues? I believe the answer is 'yes'. While not everyone will be used to bring messages to the Body of Christ through tongues, everyone can speak in tongues as a prayer and worship language. This is supported in scripture.
In addressing the gift of tongues as it is used in the chruch, Paul states in 1 COR 12:30, "Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? . . .". He states here that the Holy Spirit is the One who decides which gifts and through whom they will operate in the church. But Paul also addresses tongues in the life of EVERY believer as a prayer and worship language when he says in 1 COR 14:5 "I would like every one of you to speak in tongues."
I hope this helps.
-- David Bowerman (Dbowerman@blazenet.net), October 24, 1999.
To All,A couple of points I would like to make here, I will attempt to keep it short.
First, Mucha you are correct, there is quite a bit of confusion when it comes to the Holy Spirit Baptism and the Gifts of the Spirit in the life of the believer. It saddens me mostly when I read or hear individuals outright attacking this precious experience, sometimes I am downright amazed at the comments of people when it comes to this part of the Holy Scriptures. I do not claim to have a corner on the truth in regards to this experience, but I will say that it has been a major part of my life and believe that a lot of Christians have not taken the time to understand the Holy Scriptures when approaching this subject.
Second, I do want to address a common misconception, even by people who call themselves Pentecostal, when talking about the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and one which I think David has made unwittingly. The majority of the subject in I Corinthians when talking about Tongues is referring to the "Gift of Tongues" and not the "Baptism in the Holy Spirit". The difference? The "Gift" of tongues within the context of the other nine gifts as mentioned in I Corinthians is put into operation at God's will the Tongues received at the Baptism in the Holy Spirit can be called upon by the individuals own will. I can pray in tongues at any given moment. Just because I am Baptized in the Holy Spirit and can speak in Tongues does not mean the Spirit of God is moving me to give a public message in Tongues to the entire church via the Gift of Tongues. This distinction is very important when interpreting the Holy Scriptures particularly when it comes to the passages in 1 Corinthians.
Now, with this insight, we can better understand how Tongues at the Holy Spirit Baptism is for every believer, and that the Gift of Tongues is not for every believer, this is why Paul asks the question, "do all speak in Tongues?" (referring to the "Gift of Tongues") and the answer is no, not every believer has the "Gift of Tongues" per 1 Corinthians, but every believer should have the Holy Spirit Baptism as evidenced by speaking in Tongues, per Mark 16:17, Acts 2:1-4. Two different experiences!
As I said before, I am trying to keep this short, but this is such an awesome experience with many testimonials to give I could go on all day. I hope my 2 cents has helped someone, I will continue to check this thread to see if there are any further comments or questions.
Faithfully His,
-- Barry Hanson (obci2000@yahoo.com), November 10, 1999.
Barry, your point is exactly was I was attempting to make as well. Simply to point out that there is a different functioning of tongues in the life of every believer as a prayer language received when one is baptized in the Spirit and the Gift of tongues which is designed to function in the body of believers as a divine message inspired and initiated by the Holy Spirit. Since I was not as clear, thanks for your added perspective.
-- David Bowerman (dbowerman@blazenet.net), November 10, 1999.
To David:It is refreshing to hear another brother of like faith! Keep up the great work :o] God bless.
-- Barry Hanson (obci2000@yahoo.com), November 11, 1999.
If there is a thing I outright agree with you all is that this is a very very very confusing topic. Someone recently said that the 3rd. millenium will be that of the Holy Ghost , meaning that the two first ones were of the Father and the Son (in terms of theological research). Indeed, all the thing with pentecostalism is to my view very poorly studied (of course for it being a relatively new movement, begining with american protestants in the end of last century). St. Thomas, for example, says very little about these things, and, as far as I am aware, pentecostalist phenomena were absent from church life from the first christians day until nowadays (the end of the last century, if you include protestant pentecostals, or up to the 1970s, with the appearence of the Charismatic Renovation movement, if you want to restrict to the Catholic World).I have very little knowledge of these topics, so I apologise if I say any nonsense. But Catholic Pentecostalism has been looked upon with mixed emotions inside the Church. Left-wing catholics (those conected with Liberation Theology for example) hate it outright, considering it "alienating". But even "conservative" catholics, while praising the good work the movement is doing, especially calling back people who were seduced by protestant pentecostalism, raise their eyebrows for example as far Liturgy is concerned. This week in Brasil our Episcopal Conference are having a meeting with the "singer-priests" (thay have become real pop-stars! One of them, Pe. Marcelo, is setting new records in CD selling), to recall them to separate more clearly the show from liturgy, so that the Holy Mass not be burried under the shoutings, tongue-speaking, etc.
This is a really complex problem, so complicated that many people, like myself, feel the same mixed emotions inside themselves. Seizing back people from protestant pentecostal is not only good, but it seems that the singer-priests are the only ones able to that nowadays. Their public is made up in majority by poor and illiterate people with little or none formal religion education. These people couldn4t care less about Dogmas, theology and all that is Rational in our faith. They are very suffering people, many unemployed, sick etc., and they go to religion to find emotional relief. The highly emotive environment of these kind of pentecostal celebrations are THE thing they feel they need. No wonder the protestant pentecostals are the fastest growing denominations in Brasil and in the thirld world in general, stealing people both from the Catholic Church and from traditional protestant churches (like lutheran or baptist).
On the other hand, exactly this emotion-only, noisy approach to our faith, where there is little if any place for recollection, silent individual prayer and contemplation, not to mention the showbiz-like fashion the Mass has been turned into, raises many concerns.
One of the things that is making Vatican officials concerned is exactly this thing of the Holy-Ghost gifts. While they are not rejected, it is sometimes difficult to tell them from pure and simple histery. Here is in play the same psychological phenomena that made the Church so carefull when it comes to authorise exorcism. While the church is not rejecting the existence and direct action of Satan in the World, She knows very well that most of the claims of diabolical posession can be easily traced down to individual or collective hystery.
It is interesting to note that one of the ways to tell supernatural (Satan or the Holy Spirit) causes from natural (hyperexcitation of the psychi) to both posession and tongue-speaking phenomena is the diference between "glossolalia" (the speaking of strange -not kown- tongues) and "xenoglossia", which is the speaking of foreign, existing languages, not known to the speaker. The glossolalia phenomenon (mumbling incomprehensible things) is well known in psychology, and has been verified in many situations completely outside religious affairs. It is almost always connected with states of trance, which are common in pentecostal celebrations. If catholic pentecostals are moved by the Holy Ghost, who is moving protestant pentecostals, hindhuists and spiritists? Yeah, I don4t think this is an easy question at all...
If anyone out there can give us references to documents dealing more profoundly with this matter, please do!
-- Atila (me@somewhere.com), November 13, 1999.
Dear Atila:I have a great "Document" to point you to, its called the BIBLE :o] - I understand completely where you are coming from. Growing up attending a fundamental Baptist elementary school, I heard first hand how people outside of the Pentecostal movement view this move of God and claim it to be the work of the Devil. Hearing all this talk I decided to search the Holy Scriptures for myself to see if what was being said was true. Well, for 20 years now I have been filled with the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues and must say I have had a most exciting life! Looking back now I am so glad to have followed the simple teaching of the Bible and left behind the rituals and traditionalism of men!
Reading your comments reminded me of the life of Jesus, how he went to the "unlearned and ignorant" - how the whole Christian faith started with these same type of people you call:
"suffering people, many unemployed, sick etc., and they go to religion to find emotional relief."
Apparently, " stealing people both from the Catholic Church and from traditional protestant churches (like Lutheran or Baptist)" (as you put it) is an easy thing to do because the Pentecostal message is meeting a need in a persons life that the afore mentioned organizations were unable meet? Maybe, if you stopped looking at the situation with the bias you have been brought up in you would realize that it is God that is touching these people for real. You recognize this is the fastest growing movement of this century but fail to acknowledge that it could be of God - to me this is more confusing than the issue under discussion. I am not arguing with you, I'm simply thinking out loud here, I am very happy with my station in life and the place the Holy Spirit has lead me and where He continues to lead me, if you find yourself in a similar situation I praise the Lord. One thing I will never do is criticize your experience with God, if you feel the need to do so about my experience you have the right, my only caution is one day you may find that you have been fighting against the Holy Spirit the whole time.
Another thought I want to address, you state:
"On the other hand, exactly this emotion-only, noisy approach to our faith, where there is little if any place for recollection, silent individual prayer and contemplation,"
I am sorry if this has been your experience with Pentecostal services, all I can say is that this is not true across the entire movement. Just as you would correct me if I were to make giant sweeping generalizations of the Catholic Church. People who hold their faith precious, tend to make accusations of other groups that differ from their own, which in most cases are made out of a lack of understanding concerning that group. For instance, I am not Roman Catholic, and I could make the accusation that all Roman Catholics pray to Mary. This would be a sweeping generalization made because of my lack of understanding concerning the Roman Catholic tradition. Since coming to this forum have learned that this is not the correct understanding of the Roman Catholic tradition and therefor refrain from making this generalization. Back to my point, I am Pentecostal and have been in many a service where silent reflection was observed, I find this as exciting as when I am on my face weeping because of the awesome presence of the Holy Spirit or when I am dancing because the joy inside makes me want to rejoice!
Finally, the reason this is so confusing is because people simply will not read their own Bible. I can only speak for myself, I am not confused, if you are personally I suggest you read your Bible, it is there black and white, Peter said on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:39) that the promise of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit was for them, their children, "even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Mark 16:17 says that Tongues "shall follow them that believe."
My only question is Atila, Do YOU believe?
Sincerely,
-- Barry Hanson (obci2000@yahoo.com), November 13, 1999.
Roman Catholic Church is in false doctrine (false religion.The Roman Catholic Church practices satanism,has satanic symbols(pagan symbols =Babylonian symbols and gods.Check out (www.temcat.com).The pope is called the vicar of god replacing Jesus.Roman Church has blasephemed against God ...>>>the Pope has taken over the title Father and many priest are called rabbi.....(Matthew 23:8-9)...there is only one father and one rabbi(teacher) and they are both in heaven.and preist and the pope have forgivven peoples sin like if they have that authority ...Blasphemy!!!!You are to confess to the Father in HEAVEN in Jesus name and Repent of your sins turn your back on sin and never go back walking in spirit and in truth meaning living the word not just talking it .Roman Church has accepted the pagan way of life not Jesus way.Roman Chruch has change the sabbath from Saturday to sunday ....Day of worship to the sun god (babylonian /pagan god.Check out the laws of the Jesuits ...Holy Roman Empire led by The roman church are permitted to kill christian and protestants.The Pope was once sitting on a chair with a inverted cross behind em ...in the pope`s sermon on the mount where 80,000 listened (www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1360.cfm )I pray and hope you catholics get out of that church go to a chruch where they acknowledge The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit in truth and in spirit.Where ever you are at right now close your eyes and pray to the father in jesus name and ask him to show you the truth and to give you his salvation which only comes by accepting Jesus christ as your only!! Lord and savior ....I ask that you guys do some research on the Roman Church , the Vatican , Babylonia ,New World Order,Holy Roman Empires,and most of all please live your life in constant prayer and fasting ,turning your back on this world and its pleasures,keeping the commandments doing the works of the Lord Jesus Christ.....I am not here to make friends ...i`m just here to tell the truth and possibly gain a brother/sister in christ ...like Jesus said in Matthew anyone that accepts and lives the word of God and keeps his commandments shall be called his brother ,his mother,his sister.....God bless u all dont get offended by the truth for the truth shall set u free ....the truth slices and cuts but after that comes healing in Jesus name and you will be free and stronger in faith.These are the end times people please do your research on the New World Order and the people involved.....which includes the Roman Catholic Church....The pope even said it out his own mouth that there is a New World Order coming in which he wants to lead.Take Heed ...please these people have no love for u like Jesus has ....these people plan on wiping out 80% of the population and sustain a population of 500million.Our own leaders are involved look it up please so you too can be prepared.
-- Rick Rivera (wrbjk@aol.com), October 22, 2002.
Alright, pepe, let's break this down point by measley point, shall we? What the heck you're doing coming to a Catholic forum telling us we're all satanists is beyond me but hey, who'm I? Just a lowly Catholic. Let's plow, oh little confused one~"Roman Catholic Church is in false doctrine (false religion."
Well, given that it's the only church that can trace it's roots back to the person that started Jesus' church, I'd have to say that's false. (see list of popes)
"The Roman Catholic Church practices satanism,has satanic symbols (pagan symbols =Babylonian symbols and gods.Check out (www.temcat.com).The pope is called the vicar of god replacing Jesus.Roman Church has blasephemed against God ...>>>"
Ok, instead of arguing this with you, just look at this page.
"the Pope has taken over the title Father and many priest are called rabbi.....(Matthew 23:8-9)...there is only one father and one rabbi (teacher) and they are both in heaven."
And just what is a priest if not a teacher of the teachings of Jesus and ways of God?
"and preist and the pope have forgivven peoples sin like if they have that authority ...Blasphemy!!!!You are to confess to the Father in HEAVEN in Jesus name and Repent of your sins turn your back on sin and never go back walking in spirit and in truth meaning living the word not just talking it ."
Please see quote from Jesus~John 20:23: "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." and commission to Peter in Matthew 16:19, He says, "whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." To further explain that~Of course Jesus' death on the cross accomplished the forgiveness of all sins. What the apostles are doing is discerning the state of repentance in the hearts of people and taking the action that is appropriate both for the salvation of the individual and the health of the community of the church. (Taken from this page.
"Roman Church has accepted the pagan way of life not Jesus way.Roman Chruch has change the sabbath from Saturday to sunday ....Day of worship to the sun god (babylonian /pagan god.Check out the laws of the Jesuits ...Holy Roman Empire led by The roman church are permitted to kill christian and protestants."
This argument has been bantered around so much, there's no point in going into that with you. Trust me on this one, my father was a Seventh Day Adventist so, I've heard it all before, ok?
"The Pope was once sitting on a chair with a inverted cross behind em ...in the pope`s sermon on the mount where 80,000 listened (www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1360.cfm )"
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, there's another thread around here somewhere with that in it and guess what? I'm the dork that brought it up. I don't have time to look it up so, go find it and you'll see the explanation on that one.
"I pray and hope you catholics get out of that church go to a chruch where they acknowledge The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit in truth and in spirit."
Gee. And here I thought the church I go to DID acknowledge the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit everyday. Hence the whole "everything we've done here, we've done through Christ, our Lord" thing at the end of the Mass.
"Where ever you are at right now close your eyes and pray to the father in jesus name and ask him to show you the truth and to give you his salvation which only comes by accepting Jesus christ as your only!! Lord and savior ....I ask that you guys do some research on the Roman Church , the Vatican , Babylonia ,New World Order,Holy Roman Empires,and most of all please live your life in constant prayer and fasting ,turning your back on this world and its pleasures,keeping the commandments doing the works of the Lord Jesus Christ....."
Right back atcha, buddy. Do a little research before going off half cocked with your accusations.
"I am not here to make friends ...i`m just here to tell the truth and possibly gain a brother/sister in christ ...like Jesus said in Matthew anyone that accepts and lives the word of God and keeps his commandments shall be called his brother ,his mother,his sister....."
If you believe in God, we already ARE your brothers and sisters in Christ.
"God bless u all dont get offended by the truth for the truth shall set u free ....the truth slices and cuts but after that comes healing in Jesus name and you will be free and stronger in faith.These are the end times people please do your research on the New World Order and the people involved.....which includes the Roman Catholic Church....The pope even said it out his own mouth that there is a New World Order coming in which he wants to lead.Take Heed ...please these people have no love for u like Jesus has ....these people plan on wiping out 80% of the population and sustain a population of 500million.Our own leaders are involved look it up please so you too can be prepared."
Well, now, don't YOU be offended when I tell you that it's time to take your medication cuz the little purple fuzzy elephants are crawling out of the wall again, man.
Peace.
-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), October 22, 2002.
RickHave mercy! I am not a Catholic, but have recently come to this forum while looking up something. I do not agree with everything the Catholics teach, but there is a way to discuss these matters.
Have a little charity.
1co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
1co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
1co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Have mercy with people as the Lord has done with you. We all deserve Hell, we are all unrighteous in and of ourselves. It is Christ which has perform the great work in us! The Spirit must reveal unto us all the Truth, we can't stick it down someone's throat.
Praise God!
-- Tim (tlw97@cox.net), October 22, 2002.
There is a great study that could be done with the idea of tongues. But this is all I will mention.FACT: No one has ever spoke in tongues like at Pentacost.
FACT: Jesus was filled with the Spirit, and I don't recall Him speaking in tongues.
FACT: 1co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
-- Tim (tlw97@cox.net), October 22, 2002.
Tim,Thank you so much for sticking up for the Catholic's against that erronious post.
You mentioned a few things that I wanted to either touch on, or inquire further about.
You said, "FACT: No one has ever spoke in tongues like at Pentacost."
I would like to question this "FACT", because it seems that it would be quite dificult to give proof either way. I have heard of people being given the gift of tongues in order to evangelise in languages they had never known. Read a few of the lives of the Saints. Many were given this gift, as on Pentacost.
"FACT: Jesus was filled with the Spirit, and I don't recall Him speaking in tongues."
However, the Advocate was not with the Apostles until Christ had Asended into His glory. For it is writen that if Christ didn't leave, the Advocate would not come. And as it also is writen, there are several different types of tongues, one being angelic tongues. And since Christ converses daily with angels, it goes without saying that he had spoken tongues - maybe just not on earth. Furthermore, how many times had the Gospel writers said, as John, "25 And there are also (37) many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written." So, who knows? Jesus might have spoken in tongues? "FACT: 1co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."
This is just one type of toungs, like the angelic tongues. The key word in this phrase is "unknown". For the Apostles all spoke in known tongues and this is apperant because all those being evangelized were amazed that each heard the Appostle in their own language.
Hope this helps a bit.
Thanks again. In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), October 23, 2002.
Oh, I just wanted to mention.The Catholic Church does NOT teach that one must speak tongues to be saved, or even as an indication that one is Full of the Spirit.
"There are many gifts, but one Spirit."
Just to be clear. The "gift" is just that: a gift.
In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), October 23, 2002.
Jake"I have heard of people being given the gift of tongues in order to evangelise in languages they had never known." - I can believe this has happened, but I take the day of Pentacost to be that they spoke normally, but everyone heard each one of them in their own tongue. I just believe that that was a special day, and not the ordinary...
"if Christ didn't leave, the Advocate would not come" - You are correct, my mistake.
"This is just one type of toungs, like the angelic tongues" - the reason I mentioned the "unknown tongues" is because the major of people [well that I have heard] want everyone to speak in tongues at church - and there is no interpreter. I personally do not believe that we have that gift any more because of the following verses, if even if we did - they don't do it right according to I Corinthians 14.
1co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 1co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
Verses, why I believe we do not have the gifts now, nor should search for them:
1co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
Mt 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Mr 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
Our sign:
Lu 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
-- Tim (tlw97@cox.net), October 25, 2002.
Tim,Thank you for your honesty. You wrote a few good points down that I have to agree and comment with:
But first I'll have you know that my mother, Theresa, knows far more about this subject than do I. And I hope that she will post - to clean up my mistakes, if I make any :)
"...the reason I mentioned the "unknown tongues" is because the major of people [well that I have heard] want everyone to speak in tongues at church - and there is no interpreter."
Were these Catholic Churches? Normal Catholic Mass does NOT include this at all. But there are certain healing services or special teaching seminars held outside of the Mass, within which this ocurrs. And there is a great teaching on the gift, and the first step in recieving this gift is being baptized in the Holy Spirit. This Baptism doesn't necessarily mean that you will recieve this particulare gift (for there are many gifts but one Spirit), but the gift is always recieved within this context. Now, there are also different kinds of tongues as we had talked about, and normally when a speaker is teaching on the gifts of tongues and askes every one to try, once they have been prayed over for the Baptism of the Spirit, they usually begin by speaking in angelic tongues. That is, they are speaking in tongues to God and not man. I think this is also normal practice because usually every one at the service speaks English and it would be quite futile to speak in tongues for evangelical or prophetic purposes when one doesn't need to reach out to others in a different language. But, when there is a prophetic word - on the norm it is acompanied by an interpreter.
We know a few things about the gift of tongues from Scripture, as you had pointed out.
One point is that St. Paul wished that everyone could speak in tongues. Therefore, we know through this, that the gift is important and still existing.
Another point is that, as Paul teaches us, while the gift of prophesy is for the believer, the gift of tongues is for un-believers (in this particulare instance Paul is talking about the gift of tongues for evangilization, as apposed to angelic tongues). This shows the importance for tongues, especially for missionaries.
And we also know that he liked prophesy better because it built up the Church, while tongues builds the person up (the particular type of tongues Paul speaks of here is the angelic type - that is between God and you). But there must be a balance, because in order for the Church to be build up, each individual must also build themselves up.
In my opinion, much like yours, I do believe that in certain instances too much emphasis is put on this gift. So much so in some cases that I think the gift is forced, and that the apperant reciever is merely babbaling to "fit in". But such is the case in all things. There are always going to be abuses. I wouldn't go so far as to say that ALL tongues are false, but there are those who will stretch the truth. I think this is a work of the devil to try and smuther out those who really do indeed have the gift. And in reality, the truth is available to those who would look hard enough. There are surely modern Saints who are missionaries evangelizing in tongues unknown to them, in order to draw the hethen to Christ.
It is a gift in itslef nowadays to look past all the phonies and acknowledge the authentic Power of God. The devil has a stronghold on certain parts of our faith, but evidence and historical extrapolation would indicate that if the Apostles did it, then we also are doing it.
I do hope that my mom posts for further clarification on this powerful gift from God. But in the mean time, I would also suggest reading or listening to Fr. Hampsh. He teaches on the gift of tongues and it might be beneficial to hear him.
In Christ.
-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), October 26, 2002.
The truth about "tongues" for Tim, Jake, Jake's mom can be found in an old thread at http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002vPi
-- Cross (References@For.Thee), October 27, 2002.
I was a little out of control ...I apoligize for that.I`m sorry for the way i did it ...I am not sorry for telling truth..May God Bless You all with his HOLY SPIRIT !!!. catholics.These words are not my own but from God himself (the BIBLE).Being born agian >>>>Jesus replied,"with all the earnestness I possess I tell you this:Unless you are born again,you can never get into the Kingdom of God.....What I am telling you so earnestly is this:Unless one is born of water and the SPIRIT,he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.Men can only reproduce human life ,but the Holy SPIRIT gives new life from heaven;so dont be suprised at my statement that you must be born agian."(John3:3,5-7). Knowing the Holy Spirit >>>He has put his brand upon us-his mark of ownership-and given us his HOLY SPIRIT in our hearts as uarantee that we belong to him,and as the first installment of all that he is going to give us(2 Corinthians 1:22)......worldy,pagan,sinners,...but you are not like that.You are controlled by your new nature IF you have the SPIRIT OF GOD living in you .(remember that if anyone doesnt have the SPIRIT OF GOD living in him ,he is not a Christian at all!!) Yet ,even though Christ lives within you,your body will dies because of SIN;but your spirit will live ,for Christ has pardoned it.And if the SPIRIT OF GOD ,who raised up Jesus from the dead,lives in you,he will make your dying bodies live again after you die,by means of this same HOLY SPIRIT living with in you...(ROMANS 8:9-11)....If you Love me ,Obey me ;and I will ask the Father (in Heaven!) and he will give you another Comforter,and he will never leave you .He is the HOLY SPIRIT,the SPIRIT who leads into all TRUTH.The WORLD at large cannot receive him,for it isnt looking for him and doesnt reconize HIM.But you do ,for he lives with you now and some day shall be IN YOU....but when the Father(in heaven) sends the comforter instead of me -and by the comforter Imean the HOLY SPirit-he will teach you much ,as well as remind you of everything I myself have told you."(John 14:15- 17,26)....(1 Corinthians 7:22..>>>....If the Lord calls you,and you are a slave ,remember that Christ has set you free from the awful power of sin,and if he has called you and you are free,remember that you are now a slave of Christ.)1Corithians12:12,13>>>>>Just as our bodies are composed of many parts and all parts are needed to form a complete body,so it is with Christ`s Body(body=the real church ...the real church of christ is lead by the spirit not by mens thoughts and ways)..continue...Christ`s body ,the church .It too is composed of many parts,and we are the parts.All of us-Jew and Gentiles,slaves and free-have been baptized(with fire..> holy ghost baptizm) unto the one body in the same SPIRIT,and the one HOLY SPIRIT has been poured out for all of us to drink.)Galatians 5:18-26>>>>>When you are guided by the HOLY SPIRIT you need no longer force yourself to obey JEWISH laws.But when you follow your own wrong inclinations your lives will produce these evil results:impure thoughts,eagerness for lustful pleasure,idolatry,spiritism(that is,encouraging the activity of demons),hatred and fighting,jealousy and anger,constant effort to get the best for YOURSELF,complaints and criticisms,the feeling that everyone else is wrong except those in your own little group--and there will be wrong doctrine,envy,murder,drunkeness,wild parties,and all that sort of thing.Let me tell you again as I have before,that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit THE KINGDOM OF GOD! But when the HOLY SPIRIT controls our lives he will produce this kind of fruit in us:love,joy,peace,patience,kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness and self control;and here there is no conflict with Jewish laws,Those who BELONG TO CHRIST have nailed their natural EvIL DESIRES to his cross and crucified them there.If we are living now by the HOLY SPIRIT `s power ,let us follow the HOLY SPIRIT `s LEADING in EVERY PART OF OUR LIVES.Then we wont need to look for honors and popularity ,which lead to jealousy and hard feelings......Again I`m sorry for the way i spoke the first time around ....may GOD TRuly Bless everyone here With his Holy SPIRIT so we can live his word not just preach it ...for one that does not live the word will not go to heaven ....1Thessalonians4:16-18>>>for the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with might shout and with the soul stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of GOD .And the believers whoare dead will be first to rise to meet the Lord then we who are still alive alive and remain on the earth will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the LOrd in the air anfd remain with him for EVER.So comfort and encourage each other with this news.(RAPTURE!!!) ask your self do you want to be a part of it??...I certainly would look in to all truth after asking the Lord for his Holy Spirit.For this is not a game ...many will be called but few will be chosen ...The ones that will be chosen must walk in spirit and in truth ...that is not only doing good deeds..For Jesus him self says that in the book Of matthew...we must also keep thy commandments ,love one another ,love the lord with all heart ,mind body and soul,....Praying and fasting so we dont fall into temptation for the spirit is willing but the body is weak....find a church where you see people being healed and set free ...where everyone is praising the lord ..with their mouth for Psalms150 instructs us to ....a church where actually see the manifestation of the HOLY SPIRIT ..and church where the FULL gospel is preached....,<<,very important ....I love you guys i dont want anyone to stay when the Lord comes for his Church....God Bless and once agian I`m Sorry for the way I spoke in that other Post...forgive me just like your heavenly father forgives you.... Matthew18:35...Please stay awake to whats going on around you ....these are the end times ...dont wait til the end...Take care and god bless....
-- Rick R. (wrbjk@aol.com), November 01, 2002.
1John 2:3-17>>>>>And how can we be sure that we belong to Christ? By looking within ourselves:are we really trying to do what he wants us to? Someone may say ,"I`m a Christian;I am on my way to heaven;I belong to Christ."But if he doesnt do what Christ tells him to ,he is a LIAR. But those who do what Christ tells them to will learn to love God more and a more .That is the way to know whether or not you are a Christian .Any one who says he is a Christian should live as CHRIST DID. Dear Brothers ,Iam not writing out a new rule for you to OBEY,for it is an old one you have always had ,right from the start .You have heard it all before.Yet it is always new,and works for you just as it did for CHRIST Jesus ;and as we obey this commandment ,to love one another ,the darkness in our lives disappears and the new light of life in CHRIST JESUS shines in. Anyone who says he is walking in the light of CHRIST Jesus but dislikes his fellow man,is still in darkness.But whoever loves his fellow man is "walking in the light "and can see the way.I am writing these things to all of you ,my little children,because your sins have been forgiven in the name of JESUS our SAVIOR,I am saying these things to you older men because you really know Christ,the one who has been alive from the beginning .And you young men,I am talking to you because you have won your battle with Satan.And I am writing to you younger boys and girls because you too,have learned to know God our True FATHER.And so I say to you fathers who know the eternal GOD,and you you young men who are strong,with GODS word in YOUR Hearts,and have won your struggle against satan;Stop LOVING THIS EVIL WORLD and all that it offers you,for when you Love These Things YOU SHOW THAT YOU DO NOT REALLY LOVE GOD;FOR ALL THESE WORLDLY THINGS,THESE EVIL DESIRES-CRAZE FOR SEX,THE AMBITION TO BUY EVERYTHING THAT APPEALS TO YOU ,AND THE PRIDE THAT COMES FROM WEALTH AND IMPORTANCE-THESE ARE NOT FROM GOD!!They are from this EVIL WORLD ITSELF.and this world is fading away ,and these EVIL,forbidden things will go with it!! but whoever keeps DOING THE WWILL OF GOD WILL LIVE FOREVER!!!! Revelation 21:7-8>>>>Everyone who conquers will inherit theese blessings,and I will be his GOD and he will be my SON. BUT Cowards who turn back from following me ,and those who are unfaithful to me ,and the corrupt,and murderers and the immoral, and those conversing with demons,and idol worshipers and ALL LIARS-their doom is in the LAKE that burns with FIRE and SULPHER.This is the SECOND DEATH.".....Forget about speaking toungues ...make sure you are right in the eyes of Jesus ....the eyes of man (priest,Rabbi,fellow christian,worldy person).>>>...i said JESUS!!!!....Matthew 3:11- 12>>>>He shall baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT and with FIRE.He will separate the chaff(The people that didnt follow him the one must follow him ,sinners,etc,)and he shall store away the grain(the followers of Christ that have pleased him and Obeyed his every command ,,,the ones who are full of his spirit ...always walking in obedience to his word and his commands ...and The Holy Spirit`s leading!!!).......Matthew 18:3-11>>>>Unless you turn to GOD from your SINS and become as Children(that is obeying his every command like child with parent and HUMBLE)you will NEVER get into the Kingdom of Heaven.Therefore anyone who HUMBLES himself as this little child ,is the greatess in the Kingdom of Heaven. And any of you who welcomes a little child like this because you are mine ,is welcoming me and caring for me.But if any of you causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose his faith,it would be better for you to have a rock tied to your neck and be thrown into the sea."woe upon the WORLD for its EVILS.Temptation to do wrong is inevitable but woe to the man who does the tempting .So if your hand or foot causes you to sin ,cut it off and throw it away .Better to enter heaven crippled than to be in HELL with both of your hands and feet .And if your EYE causes you to sin,gouge it out and throw it away .Better to enter Heaven with one eye than be in Hell with two.....meaning stay away from everything and everyone who causes you to sin ....for the spirirt is willing but the body is weak.....another thing you must do is pray and fast for this gives us strength to resist temptation.....be consistent with your prayer life for that is the only way to have a close relationship with our Savior Jesus.....also keep thy commandments ....if you slip and sin becuse your not being consistent in prayer then fall back on your knees and ask your father in HEAVEN (not preist or rabbi )....the one who forgives is in heaven ....ask him for forgivness and stay consistent in prayer and fasting and practice what the way of life the NEW Testament teaches .....if you feel u are not sure of whether u r saved or not ....please pray to Father in heaven in Jesus name ....and ask him to truly come in your heart and show you the way the truth ...and when he does please accept his leading ...you`ll feel it right in your heart ...Remember always ask the Lord for Confirmation ....for satan to comes as an angel of light ....but its only to destroy you......Every negative thought that comes in your mind rebuke in jesus name and dont accept it ...dont entertain those evil desires ,negative thoughts that always leads you to do something that you regret.....ASK the Lord Jesus TO SHow you the Truth and The way ....he wont fail you nor forsake you.....alll he ask is that u be patient and obey his laws and follow him until he has answered your prayer ..he does things his way and its always for our own good ...to make us stronger in faith and in his Love ...God Blesss YOU ALLL ....Jesus Loves YOU ...No one comes to the Father in heaven if not through ME(JESUS)....Look for Him and you shall Find Him ......Remeber this is a choice one must make ....Jesus never forces himself upon anyone because of (free will )thats how much he respects us and loves us .....please dont wait and put it off for some other day ...for soon will be too late ....Jesus said he will come for his church (rapture)...after 2days .(A day to God IS 1000 years)....two days=2000yrs.....2000 yrs were completed in the year 2001....any day now Jesus may come for his Church which is everyone who follows him in spirit and in truth ...obeying,praying,fasting,doing his work,keeping thy commandments and being faithful to him til he comes ....(James 1:12>>> Happy is the man who does not give in to temptation for a great reward awaits him afterwards ...he will get the Crown of Life that GOD has Promised to those who love him..<<(OBEY HIM).....Anyone who calls himself a Christian but doesnt control his sharp toungue is just fooling himself and his religion inst worth much.<<>>>The Christian who is PURE and without FAULT,from God the Father `s point of view,is the one who takes care of orphans and widows ,and who remians TRUE to the LORDJesus...not SOILED and DIRTIED by his contacts with the WORLD......Read Hebrews chapter 13.....(Holy and obedient lives)...Eternal Life Is yours if YOU want it ....if you give up your life(worldly life,) for Jesus....you shall have it ...but if you try to hang on to some of the worldy ways and try to get by as you (or me) are ....only HELL awaits you (or me) ....Jesus LOves YOu enough too to die for you ....i bet if i took a bullet for you ...youd be very greatful ....right...Jesus took upon all the sins of the world so u and me may have eternal life ...its a free gift but we must take care of the gift by obeying and praticing his word every DAY...if we dont then we are only fooling are selves when we say we are Christians and we are going to Heaven ...please read and Sudy your bible NKJV....and see for your self ...for must follow GODS words not mans thoeries...Walking with Jesus is the ONly way to Heaven ....who do you want to walk with Satan and go to Hell or Jesus and go to Heaven ....lets wake up ...and do this right ....for it s the way he wants us to walk(His will) .....not our way ....he does understand everything you are going through ...heck he created you ....take some time out and talk with him each day and practice what u learn when reading new testament ....God Bless YOU aLLL...
-- Rick.R. (wrbjk@aol.com), November 01, 2002.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-8 >>>>(1)Finally then brothers,we urge and exort in The Lord Jesus that you should abound more and more,just as you received from us how you ought to walk and to please GOD;(2)for you know what commandments we gave you through the Lord Jesus. (3)Ford this is the WILL of GOD,your santification;that you should abstain from sexual immorality; (4)that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, (5) not in passion of lust,like the Gentiles(worldly person,pagan)who do not know GOD; (6)that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter ,because the LOrd is the avenger of all such,as we also forewarned you and testified. (7)For God did not call us to UNCLEANNESS ,but to HOLINESS!!!.....(8)therefore he who rejects this does not reject MAN ,but GOD, who has also given us HIs HOLY SPIRIT. AMEN!!!!Glory to GOD!!!Praise JESUS!!!....Nothing dirty shall enter the Kingdom Of Heaven ! Only clean, holy,servents shall enter ......we need to concentrate on whats sin so we dont do it and whats holy so that we may Do what God wants us to DO....Revelation 22 :11-15 >>>>..(11)>>He who is unjust ,let him be unjust still;he who is filthy;let him be filthy still;he who is rightous ,let him be rightous still;he who is HOLY,let him be HOLY still."(12)>>"And behold,I am coming quickly,and My reward is with Me,to give every one according to his WORK.(13)>>I am the Alpha and the Omega,the beginning and the end,the First and The Last...(14)Blessed are those who DO his commandments,that they maay have the right to the TREE OF LIFE,and may enter through the gates into the city...(15) but outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,and whoever loves and practices a LIE.......Revelation 21:26-27>>>And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it(27)>>But there shall by no means enter it anything that DEFILES,or causes abominations or LIE,but ONLY THOSE who are written in the Lamb`s Book of LIfe......You are either gonna live for Christ Jesus or not ...their is nothing in between .....you are either God`s property or the Devil`s ....no other choice ...scripture says this clearly if you read the bible then you know what I`m talking about .....(Romans12:1-21>>>And do not be conformed to this WORLD,but be transformed!! by the renewing of your mind,that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and PERFECT WILL OF GOD!!!...(12:3)>>For I say ,through the grace given to me ,to everyone who is among you,not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think,but to think soberly,as GOD has dealt to each one a measure of faith...(12:4) >>For as we have many members in one body ,but all the members do not have the same function....(12:5)>>so we being many ,are one body in Christ, and indvidually members of one another....(12:6)>>Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us ,let us use them ;if prophey,let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;(12:7) >>or ministry,let us use it in our ministering ;he who teaches,in teaching;(12:8)>>he who exhorts,in exhortation;he who givess,with liberality;he who leads;with dilligence;he who shows mercy,with cheerfulness.(12:9)>>Let love be without HYPOCRISY,Abhor what is EVIL,CLING to what is GOOD>(12:10)>>be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love ,in honor giving prferance to one another..(12:11)>>not lagging in dilligence,fervent in spirit,SERVING THE LORD JESUS;(12:12)>>rejoicing in hope PATIENT in TRIBULATION,continuing steadfastly in PRAYER!!!(12:13)>>distributing to the needs of the saints,given to hospitality .(12:14)>>Bless those who persecute you ;bless and DO NOT CURSE.(12:15)>>Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep .(12:16)>>Be of the same mind toward one another .Don not set your mind on high things,but associate with the HUMBLE.Don not be wise in your own opinion.(12:17) >>Repay no evil for evil,Have regard for good things in the sight of all men .(12:18 >>If it is possible ,as much as depends on you,live peaceably with all men.(12:19>>>Beloved do not avenge your selves but rather give place to wrath ;for it is written .."Vengeance is MINE,I will repay it,"" says the LORD JESUS ....(12:20>>>Therefore "If your enemy is hungry,feed him;If he is thirsty;give him a drink;For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head"...(12:21>>>Do Not be overcome by Evil,but Overcome Evil with GOOD!!!!.......God BLESS ALL YOU BEAUTIFUL CREATIONS OF GOD ....Ipray that you too will be called a brother ,a sister,mother father ....of Christ for any one who keeps thy Fathers commandments and obeys thy HOLY SPIRIT LEading wich is God`s Leading .....shall be called a brother ,sister ,mother of mine ...<<,Book of MATTHEW .....Pray and fast for the spirit is willing but the body is weak ...if you truly do want to go to heaven you will stay consistent in prayer and fasting and constantly follow the leading of the HOLY SPIRIT ....obeying thy commandments and staying away from sin!!! and this evil world whos god is Satan ....GOD FAther in heaven is GOD OVER ALL but the bible says that GOD gave Satan authority in this world so dont be decieved dont be ignorent .....READ and STUDY thy BIBLE NKJV....practice all you learn and do everything Jesus tells you to do .....all is in his hands but you must take the steps ...you must do your part ....if not he cannot be glorified in you ....get on your knees and ask Jesus to come into your heart and bless you with the spirit of truth Holy Spirit with fire ....ask him to forgive you of all sin and to wash you with his blood ...the only way to get clean is with his blood ....accept him as your savior and turn from your sin ...that includes Adultery with the eyes ....he knows that it is hard ...temptation that is but we have no excuse ....the bible tells us what to do if we only take the time to read and study it ...and practice what it teaches us .....for the road to hell is wide .....but the road to heaven is narrow......Jesus said himself out his own mouth that we all have what it takes to go to heaven ....we Jesus to clean us and lead us ....once cleaned please pray and fast consistently or you will fall into sin agian ....he loves all of us but he HATES OUR SINFUL Lives ....we must let him teach us and lead us .....its not about ash wednesday or not eatig meat on good friday ...its about trusting and obeying JESUS and NO ONE ELSE.....God Bless AND amy you FIND JESUS....Tonight!!!..
-- Rick R. (wrbjk@aol.com), November 01, 2002.
huh?!
-- ... (...@....com), November 01, 2002.
Cor. 13:8-10. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.Does this mean that tounges have already ceased or when the Lord comes back they will cease ? Just curious to know.
-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), November 02, 2002.
Dear Oliver, the gift of a prayer language {tongues} is given, as are all other gifts, for the building up of the church. When Christ comes in all glory, bringing with Him His Kingdom, tongues, as all other gifts, will not be necessary, therefore, ceasing. All that will remain will be His consuming Love, which is He Himself, our Lord. In Jesus, Theresa
-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), November 03, 2002.
ok the reason I brought up the question is because there seem to be a lot of claims that toungues died out very early on say around 100 AD as a practice and then only came back in modern times. Is their any truth to these claims ?
-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), November 04, 2002.
Hi. Sorry to just jump in the middle of the discussion. I don't have a response to the lst question. I'm sure someone here will have it.I am a Christian and am studying the Holy Spirit and the Baptism of the Holy Ghost...and specifically the gift of tongues. I have never experienced the gift and truly want to understand if indeed the gift should be a regular part of my life...if so...why am I not experiencing this gift. I am fully open to the Lord and live a consecrated life. I am seeking His full will and desire His Spirit's infilling...I believe I am indwelled...and have felt His blessed precense many times...but not once have I experienced this...maybe someone who has been where I am can tell me...should I be worried??? Will this occur???? What must I do to experience this? Doesn;t look like the early Christians did anything except accept the Lord Jesus...I'm a bit confused on the subject.
-- Jemmie Reynolds (jchf6230@garbersoft.net), November 16, 2002.
Thanks Chris. Appreciate your words. I guess hearing of these accounts from friends and reading them on line begins to raise questions about one's own spirituality...those involved seem so sincere in their faith and so inthused regarding the gifts they seem to enjoy so much. Even my own grandmother told me before she died that she once spoke in tongues when she was young. Just leaves me wondering about these things...guess I'll always be a bit curious. Thanks for your incouraging words. I have no doubts that if I remain attuned to Him and His prompting all will be well.Your bro in Christ. Jemmie
-- Jemmie Reynolds (jchf6230@garbersoft.net), November 16, 2002.
You have a warm heart Chris. Thanks for contributing to a friendly atmosphere 8-)Olly
-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), November 17, 2002.
hello Jemmie, The gift of the heavenly prayer language, tongues, is a great enhancer for ones' prayer life. I received the gift in 1978, with a group of Catholics, and have been using it ever since. It only develops and gives aid to deep communication with God, as one yields more to the Holy Spirit.The main focus we must keep though, is not on the gifts-but on the Giver of the gifts. It is He, Christ Jesus, from whom all good things come, and the gifts are only meant for the church's sustenance until He comes, at which point the gifs won't be necessary and only Love will exist. Therefore we must keep love and simplicity as our foundation.
Going back to the gift of tongues, let me give you 2 websites of Catholic international speakers I know well, who have good teaching on the gift.
This is Linda Schubert's {www.linda-schubert.com} or you can e-mail her at { linda@linda-schubert.com} and here is Father John Hampsch's web { www.claretiantapeministry.org }.
Recently especially there has been re-emphasis and teaching circulating in Catholic/Christian circles on the gift of tongues, as it is a threshold gift for the other gifts, which we will need to be equipped for the times ahead of great spiritual activity. It's a great way for the Holy Spirit to communicate with us, and to lead us in the prayer He wants us to pray, especially in interceding for the Church's needs. As we develop it a window of vision opens , it helps sharpen our discernment of the Father's will.
I received it after I received the release of the Holy Spirit. I had a desire for it, so I sat in my prayer chair with the Lord and asked for it. I began by repeating "Alleluia", {you have to open your mouth, the Holy Spirit will NOT do that for us!}, and before long I was saying phrases. If you are sincere in wanting His gifts for His purpose, to glorify Him and not yourself,He is faithful and desires this for us.
I don't want to oversimplify this, there is the gift of prayer language for one's own self, and there is speaking in tongues for a community, and there is singing in tongues. There are 4 levels of tongues, each gets deeper, the last one Jubilation, which John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila, and other saints had. I have recognized different kinds of tongues, for instance when I'm sensing I need to do some fighting a temptation {either for myself or someone else}, my tongues is different.
Our Holy Father John Paul told an audience of 3000 priests at the international Charismatic priests/leaders retreat in '96 that he received the gift of tongues when he was 12. I hope this helps, be sure to check these websites out. Theresa
-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), November 17, 2002.
Thanks Theresa. I appreciate the information. I will check out the sites. I like hearing from folks who have spoken in tongues..it's always interesting to hear the accounts of their first experience!I'm curious...when you received this gift, were you among others who spoke in tongues...or did it occur in you as a personal, isolated, experience without others around you speaking in tongues? I know that question sounds "loaded" and I don't mean for it to be...it's just that I have yet to speak with anyone who has received the gift who was not surrounded by others speaking in tongues. I would find it most interesting to speak to someone who experienced the gift without "influence" from others around them... that is, someone who has never heard others speak in tingues...(like myself)
Thanks again. Jemmie
-- Jemmie Reynolds (jchf6230@garbersoft.net), November 17, 2002.
Dear Jemmie, I've met people with all kinds of different experiences. I'm not surprised at all at any of them, the Holy Spirit blows as He will! For me though, I was attending a "Holy Spirit and You" seminar, it was a 21-week course, {at that time we were so hungry for God we attended it 3 times!}. There was much anticipation for the night of the 'baptism in the Holy Spirit', and we were prepared to let the Holy Spirit do as He would, not to expect any particular thing, or compare our experience with anyone else's.I prayed with a small group of about 20. I didn't receive tongues that night, but the next night, in my own personal prayer time, I did.
I've heard of people receiving it in the car, while shaving, at a prayer meeting. One nun said she was at a prayer meeting and heard the people singing 'like angels', and she thought it was so beautiful 'she just joined in'. Many many times the Holy Spirit saw fit to grant people this gift while they were alone, with no knowledge or preparation,just divine intervention, I've heard this alot from people. This is marvelous to me, as there was no pre- conceived ideas or prejudices against it. It's a gift, freely given, for our benefit.
There are other web sites with other info you may be interested in, I'll find one later on this afternoon when I get home from work.
Let's keep our eyes on Jesus, and just spend time with Him, He'll grant us what we need, at just the right time. He is so good and faithful. Theresa
-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), November 18, 2002.
Hey Theresa:One thing I REALLY love to do is pray quietly in my prayer language during the recitation of the Rosary, and all the while focusing on the mystery. I love it!
Love,
Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), November 19, 2002.
Theresa, that sounds awesome. All I know to do is remain open...and focused on Jesus. Thanks.
-- Jemmie Reynolds (jchf6230@garbersoft.net), November 20, 2002.
^
-- ^ (^@^.^), November 23, 2002.
I agree that there is much confusion. I myself am constantly told that it is wrong to speak in toungues, and that it is not a gift from the holy spirit, but a possesion from the Devil. This idea is completely wrong, as you read in other answers. What i do when i am confronted with people who beleive that speaking in tounges is a possesion, is quote a few Bilbe verses, tell them that like every denomination, we have our beleifs, and pray for them.
-- Jason Lamar Hancock (pacodude3@yahoo.com), November 24, 2002.
YES I DO THINK THAT IT IS CONFUSION AMONG CHURCHES ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES. TONGUES IS NOT JUST ANY OLD THING THAT YOU CAN FORCE YOUR SELF TO DO IT IS SPIRITUAL GIFT. IT'S NOT A RELIGIOUS THING IT'S IF YOU BELIEVE AND WANT TO RECIEVE THE GIFTS OF TONGUES. IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS THAT ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST A MIGHTY RUSH OF WIND FILLED THE CHURCH AND THEY WERE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST AND SPOKE IN OTHER TONGUES AND PEOPLE THINK THAT IT IS FAKE BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THE GIFT AND IT IS NOT BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE TAUGHT AND IF YOUR WERE TAUGHT THAT TOUNGES ARE FAKE THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE TOUNGES ARE FAKE. TOUNGES ARE A LANGUAGE THAT ONLY GOD CAN UNDERSTAND AND WHEN YOU SPEAK IN TOUNGES YOUR ARE PRAYING AND WHAT THE DEVIL CAN'T HERE HE CAN'T TRY TO DESTROY SO THATS WHY GOD HAD THE DAY OF PENTECOST COME ALONG IN THE BIBLE. SO IF YOU WANT TO RECIEVE THE GIFT OF SPEAKING IN TOUNGUES JUST CALL ON JESUS AND ASK HIM FOR THE GIFT OF TONGUES BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO WANT THIS THING. DON'T JUST THINK YOU ARE GOING TO GET TOUNGUES JUST TO SEE IF THEY ARE REAL BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT BECAUSE GOD KNOWS YOUR THOUGHTS AND IF HE KNOWS YOU AREN'T FORREAL HE WILL NOT GIVE YOU THAT GIFT. THATS JUST LIKE IF SOMEBODY WERE GOING TO BUY YOU A GIFT AND BEFORE YOU GET THE GIFT YOU TALK ABOUT THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THAT GIFT AND YOU SAY THAT YOU DON'T LIKE ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE THEN THAT PERSON WON'T GIVE YOU THAT GIFT. THANK YOU TURSHAWN GILBERT
-- Turshawn Gilbert (Turshawn@lycos.com), January 17, 2003.
good morning, Turshawn. Yes it is a precious gift, lately I've been seeing it sustain many peoples' prayer lifes. When we don't know what to pray, the gift of praying in the Holy Spirit, tongues, helps us greatly, and yes God does receive it for it comes to Him purely, as through a filter.I go into tongues at times when I sense the enemy would interfere, he cannot understand the language, it's our own personal prayer language between God and ourselves. It stirs up and 'activates', if you will, the motions and healing and empowering actions of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. It's an awesome gift I wish we had more teaching on it from the Sunday pulpit.
-- Theresa Huether (RodnTee4Jesus@aol.com), January 17, 2003.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Dear reader when was the last time you have seen Acts 2:41 happen in a so called "tounge speaking service" where soul were being saved.
Why don't you try any of the other gifts, as raising of the dead, drinking deadly poison, or taking up serpents.Mark 16:17,18
You don't need to seek a sign just serve the Saviour.
The great commision Why do those so called preaching who speak in tounges need an interpriter when they preach in other countries.
Is it real or not? No
-- J. Rosales (JerRosal@aol.com), May 06, 2003.
Hi J. Rosales.I read that the following verse may not be an authentic Scripture in the Gospel according to Mark:
"Why don't you try any of the other gifts, as raising of the dead, drinking deadly poison, or taking up serpents.Mark 16:17,18 "
Not all of the original translations contain it.
rod.
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 06, 2003.
Dear Rod,The passage yopu reference reads,"These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 06, 2003.
How can you recognise if some one is truely speaking in toungues or just trying to impress the congregation around them, surely god is the onlt one which can interprete
-- Donald Munro (munrodo@bp.com), June 16, 2003.
Donald,There is another and even greater gift of the Holy Spirit is the ability to interpret messages in tongues (gift of intrepretation). So that is one way to know if someone if really bringing a message to the congregation from the Holy Spirit. Another aspect to consider is the speaker could be just babbling nonsense or worse yet, speaking a message in demonic tongues. For that, God provides a gift known as the discerning of spirits. Someone who has that gift can know the source of a manifestation, whether it's from God, from the flesh or from the devil.
God places all of these gifts in the Church to complement each other and to provide checks and balances. He hasn't left us unequipped.
Now, that's in reference to speaking in tongues in the congregation as a message, it needs to be interpreted. If there is no interpreter present, the speaker needs to remain silent or pray for the interpretation themselves so they can bless and build up the congregation which is the purpose of the gifts as exercised in the Body.
And then there are tongues as Paul described in which we speak just between us and God as prayer or worship. That is only interpretable by God, for Paul tells us no one knows the words spoken, they are mysteries to man, known only by God.
Dave
-- non-Catholic Christian (dlbowerman@yahoo.com), June 16, 2003.
God is the only one who can PROVIDE an interpretation, just as He is the only one who can PROVIDE the gift of tongues. But He provides such gifts through human instruments. When God provides such spirtitual gifts to a community of believers, He provides what is necessary for their proper use. Thus when a message is given to the community in tongues, God provides the interpretation through another member of the community. Not all uses of tongues require interpretation - only direct messages to the congregation, delivered through an individual. Prayers of worship in tongues, either private or communal, do not call for interpretation. However, all uses of the charisms of the Holy Spirit in the community are subject to spiritual discernment, which is another gift of the Spirit given to the community to ensure the validity of the gifts which are being used. God covers all the bases."For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the discernment of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues" (1 Corinthians 12:8-10)
-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 16, 2003.
I too am a convert, who came from a Charismatic background. Therefore, I am now a Catholic charismatic. Many of my Catholic brothers and sisters are curious about speaking in tongues and other gifts of the Holy Spirit when they find out I used to be Pentecostal. However, I feel that the important thing is our mission to the world, not how "special" we are because we speak in tongues (or have any other gift of the Spirit) and someone else doesn't. That's just pride, which of course, is a sin.The advice I would give [my advice and my opinion only…not authoritative] to people that are curious, or actively seeking the gifts of the Holy Spirit, is to USE CAUTION. What I mean by that is: if the Holy Spirit wants to bless you with any gift...He will. HOWEVER, He usually does this because He is calling you to DO some sort of ministry with this gift. That's why… unless you are totally willing to go anywhere and do anything…you may not be ready to ask the Holy Spirit for such a gift, if it means you will then be accountable to use it! Remember, the people at Pentecost were empowered to enable them do their mission...they also died horrible deaths as martyrs (excluding St. John, of course.) They were ready and willing to take it “all the way”.
In my experience, if a person has asked the Holy Spirit for His gifts, he or she better be prepared to receive and use those gifts. They aren't just given to a person so that he or she can say they have them. There's a responsibility that goes along with them. If a person isn't serious about ministry, he or she should hesitate to ask Him until they are.
P.S. To Gail...I also use my prayer language while praying the Rosary. I thought I was the only silly convert that did that. :0)
-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 22, 2003.
Hi Paul.I can't figure out why I would have mis-quoted the Scriptures in my previous post. It would be best if it were deleted. I'm still scratching my head over such an error on my part!
rod.. .
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), June 22, 2003.
I'm sorry am not going to attempt answering your question or any in the earlier discuss.But i want to make a contribution. Though i appreciate our attempt's at learning this way,but i want to draw our attention to the fact that the most important thing is our desire to know and obey God,if that is in place God will use various way's toget to us the answer we need to our questions and PREPARE US TO BE USEFUL TO HIM NOW ON EARTH AND WORHTY TO INHERIT HE'S KINGDOM when he comes. This should be our all consuming desire to go after him,then we will understand him,his word,the truth and all the other thing's.it might take sometime and experience,but God will be faithfull to help a soul hungry to please him.
-- femi adeolu (femiadeolu@yahoo.com), November 12, 2003.
All,First things first. At 2 Tim 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I will assume that we all accept this to be true. That being the case, we all have to humbly accept the Bible's teachings and as true Christians, follow the instruction given to us. Does that mean simply accept something without understanding? No, we see at Genesis 18 when God wants to do away with Sodom and Gomorrah, Abraham has a discussion with God asking that if He found 50 righteous men, would He destroy the two cities. The discussion finishes with God agreeing that if even 10 righteous men were found he would spare both cities for the sake of those men. This shows that our God is open to reason and that we should learn from this and reason from the Scriptures. The apostle Paul also believed this to be the right way as at Acts 17:2
As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said.
So to the topic at hand. The Gifts of the Spirit are clearly taught in the Bible and are supported by a number of Scriptures, therefore we have to accept this as the truth. At Acts 2 at Pentecost, we have the account of the Tongues of fire appearing on the apostles' heads. It may be worth reading the whole chapter before continuing.
A few questions:
1. Why? Why were the apostles speaking in tongues?
At Pentecost, many were gathered, all speaking different tongues (languages: nearly all Bibles render the word as tongues but its meaning is languages). Jesus had given an important instruction, that of spreading the good news to all (Acts 10:42). This would be much easier to achieve if the apostles spoke many tongues (languages). The Bible is quite specific on this point, emphasising that all who were gathered heard the apostles in his or her own native tongue, men's languages. So we see that this gift had a purpose.
2. How were the gifts passed on? This may take a bit of reading, but remember to read in context. Some times Scriptures can be misleading if taken out of context.
The gifts were passed on either by the laying of hands from the Apostles (Acts 8:14-17), or in their presence (Acts 10:44). Read through the texts that others have mentioned, and you will find this to be true. At Acts 8:14-17, we see that the apostles were being sent to the new congregation so that they may recieve the Holy Spirit.
3. What is the common denominator with the gifts, and recieving the Holy Spirit?
The apostles.
4. Would these gifts continue forever?
See 1 Cor 13:8, but please read the whole chapter. Chapter 12 also describes the gifts, it is worth reading 12 then 13 to understand the message being conveyed.
5. What then separates God's people from everyone else?
See 1 Cor 13 and John 13:34-36.
So what does the Bible teach us? Faithful brothers and sisters of that time recieved the Holy Spirit either by the laying on of hands of the apostles or in their presence. When faithful brothers and sisters of that time recieved the gift of tongues, the language they spoke was not known to them, but it would be known to at least one group on the planet as the gift of tongues was to be used to spread the good news and as a sign of God's favor toward the Christians. We also know that the gifts would cease, presumably with the apostles' deaths as they were the ones who passed on these gifts. We also know that Jesus himself gave a new commandment, the one to love one another. He even went on to say that this would be the way that Christians would be known by all men. This view is echoed at 1 Cor 13. The Bible teaches us that although all these gifts would cease, one thing would remain, love and by this love would God's people be known.
Ask yourself this: If tomorrow your country goes to war and you are called up for service, would you fight to defend your country?
If you answered yes, would you kill a fellow brother in the name of this war? And whose commandments would you be following?
One last question. What do you think about those who claim to speak in tongues, are they following the teachings from the Bible or those of men? And where is this power coming from? See 2 The 2 for the answer.
-- Sebastien Garrioch (sebastiengarrioch@hotmail.com), December 04, 2003.