You guys seem to be self-styled "experts". So what is it?

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), October 16, 1999

Answers

It's about $1.98, unless you buy a dozen or more -- and then you get a volume discount.

-- Ed Yourdon (ed@yourdon.com), October 16, 1999.

I smell TROLLLLL!!!

-- Porky (Porky@in.cellblockD), October 16, 1999.

Yes! It is pink... no.... it's blue! Well, maybe..... purple - yes, that's it... purple!

-- Kristi (securxsys@cs.com), October 16, 1999.

"Human nature" is an intellectual construction. An artificial limit. "Here: this coffin is just your size - try it out, just for fun. Get in..."

"Experts?" You need to get working on that self-esteem, brother. We all have a piece of the puzzle. Sorry, but I'm not going to qualify every assertion with "IMHO."

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 16, 1999.

I like your answer Ed.

But i'll bite:

Human nature is often experiential. When things are moving along in "safe" mode (i.e. no social or physical threats detected) most folks can and do take the time to follow those social norms in place in their society. Most times are that way. Everybody "plays nice".

The critical changes come when there is a "percieved" threat. The threat does not have to be real. One must only BELIEVE that it is real. At that time, the person's "true colors" emerge. They display one of several possible personalities:

1. The Rescuer: This person goes into "911" mode and tries to save everyone they know from the percieved threat. They will extend this effort to all they see. We see examples of this every day when natural disasters strike.

2. The Isolationist: This person responds to the threat by removing himself and loved ones from the locationof the threat. In doing so, this perosn hopes to alleviate most of the problems/dangers the threat imposes. They are willing to undergo many alternate hardships to remove themselves from the percieved danger. We see this in the refugees fleeing from real or imagined persecution.

3. The Profiteer: This person tries to take the percieved threat and exploit those affected by it through the marking up and selling of items that are percieved to be needed by those convinced of the threat. The profiteer often plans to get out of the "danger zone" at the last minute, hoping there-by to avoid the danger and still make a profit on the deal. If the percieved danger does not come to pass, the profiteer has still made his bucks and moves on to the next threat.

4. The Mole: This person finds themselves unable to cope with a percieved threat and so ignores it up until it cannot be dismissed. Often these folks do not show any reaction to a given threat until the "last minute". Their socially indoctrinated "beliefs" remain strong until such time as they are run over by the storm, so to speak. We see examples of this in people that are seen wandering the streets after a disaster in a state of shock. They can't believe that this could "happen" to them. They have no reserves in caase of tragedy. When hit with a disaster, they often have no way to come to grips with it and leave this life by their own hand. (i.e. the stock brokers in the twenties that could not bear to live with their losses.)

Now, I believe that most people are a complicated mixture of the types. When diversity comes, one's reactions to it are in direct correlation to the size of the PERCIEVED threat. I think, personally, that when the end of the year comes, there will be many who are not ready for the threat and will react in the only way left open to them: PANIC.

(I assume that this is where you were going with this question)

People that have no reserves due either to their own negligence or inability will find themselves willing to go to almost any length to secure what they need for survival. When they hit the end of the year with no money in cash, no extra food, and a gas tank near empty, they will react in some VERY unpredictable and in many cases DANGEROUS ways. As many of these "desperate" people gather together, they can often magnify and then justify their own fear and actions. Riots start that way.

I think, personally, that no matter what happens come the first of the year, that we are in for some very INTERESTING times.

And that's MY two cents worth.... (Guess that brings it to $2.99, huh ED?)

-- DavePrime (the-tv-guy@hotmail.com), October 16, 1999.

"An intellectual construction, an artificial limit."

So human nature's limits are the limits of intellect and imagination alone?

Then what seperates us from utopia is a choice. But in today's society there is no choice, right? We are all victums. Our choices taken away.

BTW, Liberty, my issue is with the word "expert" not the people in this forum.

Mr. Yourdon, Kristi... I like your answers. They make as much sence as the question.

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), October 16, 1999.

Typhonblue

And I have to go for the night, thought there might be a chance of finding out why you have an attitude.

Well here is a few thoughts on the matter.

Human nature is natural (duh) and just like looking at nature (biology and the natural sciences) there is no real difinitive way to understand human nature in a hundred words or less. But

When you look at the structure of language there are expressions such as the "rush of desire" "gravity of the situation" "Climb our own mountians" and "reflect on the situation" where you will see glimpes of human nature and the corisponding similarities to what you would term nature. Really Human nature and nature are one and the same, 15 billion years of evolution, we are dust from the stars and all the universe has the similar origin, follows the same laws and those universal laws are part and parsel human nature.

And Y2K could possibly be a rude awakening of this realization.

Hope this gets you pointed in the right direction.

-- Brian (imager@home.com), October 16, 1999.

Everyone has an attitude. Mine's just different then yours so it's noticable to you. (Different. Not better or worse.)

You could propose several explainations;

1. She's young. (the most oft used) 2. She's a bitch. 3. She's completely nuts. (understandable under the circumstances) 4. There is method in her madness. (an interesting supposition but one I niether confirm or deny.) 5. She's a pest. 6. She enjoys playing with people's sence of self. (if such a thing is possible.) 7. All and none of the above.

Another question: Is our society an accurate extension of human nature?

BTW, on the use of the phrase self-styled... How can anyone be anything but self-styled? Outside influences impinge upon self no more then self alows and accepts.

Is the above an accurate assumption?

Please excuse my questions. Just trying to learn

-- Typhonblue (typhonblue@hotmail.com), October 16, 1999.

Young lady, you and Rob Michaels need to have a long, soulful talk. After which the two of you will decide which of you will stop asking the hard, thought provoking questions. ONE of you is enough to stretch my skull to the danger point, and show me where my "box" is at the moment. TWO of you will be WAY too many..... LOL

Chuck

-- Chuck, a night driver (rienzoo@en.com), October 17, 1999.

It's an interesting question. After years of studying this question, living out my life, and praying with intense passion and humility, I've answered it for myself, generally speaking. When will you answer it for yourself (generally speaking)?

Sincerely, Stan Faryna

-- Stan Faryna (faryna@groupmail.com), October 17, 1999.

Prayer, study, and a mentor's help can begin to lead us to understand a slice of what human nature is. There's the human machine with it's mechanical personality and then there's sometimes something else bubbling in the depths.

-- Mara (MaraWayne@aol.com), October 17, 1999.

Typhonblue sometimes you're a real pain in the ass.

-- Mabel Dodge (cynical@me.net), October 17, 1999.

The (human)heart is deceitful above ALL things (even to itself) and DESPERATELY wicked; who can know it?

author: God....speaking through the inspired writing of the Jewish prophet Jeremiah.....

there are none good, no, not one! The jewish teacher Paul of Tarsus in Romans ch. 3

-- John Amphlett (vacajohn@jccomp.com), October 17, 1999.

Human nature is what humans do naturally, when unconfined by society, or custom.

-- Uncle Deedah (unkeed@yahoo.com), October 17, 1999.

It is human nature to attribute meaning to events. And to disagree on their various attributions.

Notice that animals, while they are often shrewd, and learn quickly, do not share this trait.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), October 17, 1999.

http://www.human-nature.com/

-- R (riversoma@aol.com), October 17, 1999.

Mans Nature:

part of the challenge we face with year 2000 is synonomous with mans nature.

Mankind is born with an unconditioned mind, much like an unprogrammed computer.

At this point we begin the programming process---usually our parents are the first immediate programmers in our lives. Garbage in-- garbage out. Then our teachers take over and the media and the rest of society. Until at some point are original unconditioned state becomes totally conditioned.

Our religion,values,politics,etc. "MAN IS BELIEF EXPRESSED"

the majority BELIEVE nothing will happen.

-- David Butts (dciinc@aol.com), October 17, 1999.

human nature is green, Green with envy. It isn't revealed except in times of emergency, danger or panic. Most of the time it is concealed by our selfish desire to influence others. The real person is in the heart. It is what we continually feed into our minds and that we draw upon in times of stress when our conscious mind shrinks to the size of a grain of sand and our emotions take over. It can be altruistic, but only if we deliberately overcome our "human nature". This can come about when the Holy Spirit lives in us.

-- HERB (HERB01@PRODIGY.NET), October 17, 1999.

[The Buddha speaks of his Awakening:] "Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of stress'...'This noble truth of stress is to be comprehended'...'This noble truth of stress has been comprehended'... "Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the origination of stress'...'This noble truth of the origination of stress is to be abandoned'...'This noble truth of the origination of stress has been abandoned.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the cessation of stress'...'This noble truth of the cessation of stress is to be directly experienced'...'This noble truth of the cessation of stress has been directly experienced.'

"Vision arose, insight arose, discernment arose, knowledge arose, illumination arose within me with regard to things never heard before: 'This is the noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress'...'This noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress is to be developed'...'This noble truth of the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress has been developed.'

"And, monks, as long as this knowledge & vision of mine -- with its three rounds & twelve permutations concerning these four noble truths as they actually are present -- was not pure, I did not claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its deities, Maras, & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & commonfolk. But as soon as this knowledge & vision of mine -- with its three rounds & twelve permutations concerning these four noble truths as they actually are present -- was truly pure, then I did claim to have directly awakened to the right self-awakening unexcelled in the cosmos with its deities, Maras & Brahmas, with its contemplatives & priests, its royalty & commonfolk. Knowledge & vision arose in me: 'Unprovoked is my release. This is the last birth. There is now no further becoming.'"

-- SN LVI.11

-- zoobie (zoobiezoob@yahoo.com), October 17, 1999.

Human nature is about 50% genetic, 50% cultural. The cultural and the biological are in a state of dynamic interplay with one another, each affecting the other.

Human nature is the what we do to get what we want with the things we've got. What do humans want? Biologically speaking, people want to be good Mommies and Daddies so their offspring can be fruitful enough to do the same. Basically it's just desire for sex and fear of death that drives our motivations. Both of these instincts are the way our DNA seeks to make as many copies of itself as possible.

Every so often, a great leader or thinker is able to transcend his or her nature and gets a glimpse of things greater than sex and death. Chances are, they get executed or assasinated and, in general, are greatly despised until long after their demise.

-- coprolith (coprolith@rocketship.com), October 17, 1999.

Chuck wrote: "...you and Rob Michaels need to have a long, soulful talk. After which the two of you will decide which of you will stop asking the hard, thought provoking questions"

Aw c'mon now Chuck! Runway Cat hasn't been here for most of the year to keep me company in asking "vexing questions", and now I have some companionship again :) This is great!

Typhonblue: This is the first post/thread I have ever seen from you and ya done good!

-- Rob Michaels (sonofdust@lol.lol), October 17, 1999.

It's doing what ever you think you can get away with.

-- MoVe Immediate (MVI@yepimhere.com), October 17, 1999.

Human nature: 1)an artificial designation that is the garbage can for all that is not understood about human behavior. 2)A cheap excuse (remember the joke about the scorpion wangling a ride across the river, stinging the taxiboat-animal..."I can't help it, it's in my nature?" 3) again, artificial, used by religions for at least 5,000 years to gain control of large numbers of people. 4)And for Ed...it's really 'a buck three-eighty', inflation, ya know! :-)

-- Donna (moment@pacbell.net), October 17, 1999.

Typhon,

Donna's answer shows what I was getting at.

>So human nature's limits are the limits of intellect and imagination alone?

No, you're starting with the assumption of some definite or substantial or predictible "nature," and I'm claiming it's a false concept. The concept itself has no reality other than intellect and imagination; it does not correspond to anything. The human nature that can be known is not the true human nature.

Liberty

-- Liberty (liberty@theready.now), October 17, 1999.

Uncle Deedah: "Human nature is what humans do naturally"

Simply the best answer!

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 18, 1999.

Human nature is to ask an open ended question and watch what happens.

Animal nature is what Deedah said.

-- (flakygirl@home.now), October 18, 1999.

flakygirl...Any parent of small children will tell you that it is human 'nature' to ask questions....lots of them...and not the easy to answer kind either. Kids do it 'naturally'.

Still think Uncle's answer was the best. He didn't specify narrowly, or use cluttered verbage, just distilled it with simple genius.

-- Mumsie (Shezdremn@aol.com), October 18, 1999.