Went to NG/ARMY RESERVE THIS WEEK END AND WE RECEVID Heave wep's 50's M60's saw's that is a wep that shoots a lot of rounds. granade launcher's . And more ,there were top ranking people there also. This is the first time that a transport unit has been armed with this type of fire power.. This happend in Missouri SW that is ... now I am worred ...! Because this is not normal. I can tell you this we are getting ready to deploy inside the U.S But we don't know what zone..

If this is a precurser to what is to come then look out....

We are normaly guarded by MP's and carry light wep's .. this is why I am upset. Most are upset in our unit.. don't know what is up but know it is not the norm.... Sorry about the spelling just a ground pounder.....

-- ARMY (ARMY NG@WHAT.ISHAPPING), November 15, 1999

Answers

Cool, did you get to take the M60's home with you?

-- Butt Nugget (catsbutt@umailme.com), November 15, 1999.

Diod thay giv ya bics to lit th fuz wit?

-- Mo (m@us.umm), November 15, 1999.

Hey Mo,

How about giving your best effort towards not being an asshole a for a day or two, eh?

-- cavscout (somepeople@re.jerks), November 15, 1999.

One cannot help themselves sometimes, but thanks for the laugh Butt and Mo.

-- ~~~~~ (~~~~@~~~.xcom), November 15, 1999.

You know I get tired of the one's that can't see when someone is telling you what is real . Is this what they call TROLLS or POLLYS. Don't care if YOU take this as fact or not it is your life. Don't know if it is going to come to pass. Just trying to tell what I see. And what I am living.. So take it as you will.. But if this is what is to come then remember what I and others said.. And if this is wrong then you can laugh at me/us and tell your grand kid's that you were right. If we are right then YOU can wish you could.. I am in the reserves and have been there . bet most of you that have a loser mind can't say that.. SGT MAJOR ...U.S ARMY. 21 YEARS THAT IS ,HAVE ANY OF YOU GAVE THAT AMOUNT OF TIME TO ANY THING.. THAT IS THE ONE'S WHITH THE MOUTH. AND BAD ,OH WELL SOUNDS LIKE KID'S TO ME.. I WILL NOT LET MYSELF GET UPSET . I HAVE SEEN MORE BAD A$$ES CRY TO MOM THAT YOU WILL EVER SEE AND IF YOU DO THEN I HOPE IT IS ME THAT YOU MEET IN BOOT CAMP... THIS IS FOR THE REST OF THE ONE'S THAT THINK THANK'S IT IS GOOD TO SEE THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING FOR THERE OWN... WILL LOOK BACK AND SEE LATER IF ANYONE RESPONDS..

AND IF ANY OF THE LOOSER'S WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO ME LEAVE YOUR E-MAIL ADD AND I WILL MAKE IT A POINT TO MEET YOU.

-- (ARMY NG@WHAT.ISHAPPING), November 15, 1999.

True or not? I don't know, but it sounds believable to me. It makes sense that many officers would be there to see over-supervise the issuance. Typical of anything out of the ordinary-can't be too careful. Why not just issue M-16's? Well, maybe they'll have to guard all of those trucks loaded with food and fuel from raving mobs; therefore, more firepower will be needed. No other troops (MP's here) will be available because they'll be needed elsewhere. BTW, most of those weapons would be used for perimeter defence. Why issue in November? So they can get a little range practice going at the next drill in December.

If this story is true, it tells me a few things. The troops have been issued weapons that they probably have little experience with. This is dangerous all around-more for them than us. Having no experience with them, they won't be able to shoot them effectively and won't know how to use them very well tactically. Even if this story is not true, I wouldn't be surprised if something like this happened down the line.

Lastly, these guys may be scared because they may sense that they may have to do something that they are not psychologically prepared to do. Most of those officers will be. Let me tell you about military people in general. They follow orders, whether they agree with what's happening or not. If you don't think that I'm right, just think about Rommel, von Manstein, Gudarian, and most of the soldiers that went to Viet Nam.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 16, 1999.

BTW, I'm a big supporter of military people in general, but having read quite a bit of military history and been in the military myself, I do realize the reality of the situation.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 16, 1999.

NOT ALL TROOPS WILL DO WHAT YOU SAY. SOME HAVE ALREADY BEEN TALKIN ABOUT IT.. NO ALOT OF THEM HAVE. BEEN IN CONFLICTS THAT MOST WOULD NOT BELEAVE IF IF THEY SAW ME.. I HAVE NOT BEEN TO THIS SITE VERY MUCH BUT MOST OF WHAT I SEE IS WHAT WE FEEL. JUST TRYING TO GIVE THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL.. YOU KNOW I THINK WHY THE GOV / ME THAT IS , IS SO SCARED IS THEY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF IT COMES TO THAT... OH BY THE WAY KID'S I WENT TO A TRANPORT UNIT BECAUSE MY WIFE SAID THAT I WAS GETING TO FAR FROM HOME TO LONG .WITH THE KID'S AND ALL . BUT I AM AN AMERICAN AND I LOVE THIS LAND AND I WILL NOT SEE IT BROUGHT DOWN BY ANY ONE WHO IS UNJUST OR A , WELL YOU KNOW GOT TO GO TO BED .. SOME OF US HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING...

-- (ARMY NG@WHAT.IS HAPPING), November 16, 1999.

Read 'em and weep.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 16, 1999.

Taking a guess that the zone will be Kansas City,since it's in Mo. and on the 120 cities list for possible Martial Law.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 16, 1999.

Well Army NG -

For what it's worth - I'M scared! And I was actually telling my husband about what you posted - along with another thread about similar stuff - Ed(lizzardranch)-had posted it - ONE of the items was that a man from WV had stated that local reserve members were being offered a salary of 115K tax-free, to activate and report to large training bases. And they were not being told what assignment to expect.

I know the post because I printed it out, just as I printed out YOURS to show family and friends- (and I print out precious little) I just 'deleted' the 'responses'(chuckle); didn't want them to get sidetracked.

Thanks for the info.

I honestly think This scares me more than the nuclear scenarios.

-- doorbaby (tomG@heaven.com), November 16, 1999.

Take your pick. M60 is either a) a 52+ ton tank, or b) a 23 pound machine gun, cal 7.62mm. The 105mm howitzer on the Patton tank is NOT considered a grenade launcher-- it has (depending on the charge) a range up to 19,000 meters (11.8 miles). The Patton does carry a .50 cal AA gun.

I believe a couple of weekends drill with this tank will enable a novice crew to operate it effectively. Not even standing still. If the Guard is issuing these to local troops someone has gone off the deep end.

M60 Patton tank

The M60's layout and controls are very similar to the M48 seen in the last set of pictures. It is a bit roomier inside but not by much. The M60A1 has a 4 man crew and is armed with a 105mm main gun with a .30cal co-axial machine gun and a .50cal in the commander's cupola. The combat loaded weight of an M60 is 105,000 pounds.

M60 Series Tank (Patton Series)

The M60 Patton main battle tank is now primarily found in US Reserve and National Guard units, but served as the primary US main battle tank for two decades prior to the introduction of the M1. Developed from the M48 Patton series, the M60 was fitted with a 105mm main gun and manned by a four-man crew. Criticized for its high profile and limited cross- country mobility, this durable tank proved reliable and underwent many updates over its service life. Initially produced in 1960, over 15,000 M60s were built by Chrysler and first saw service in 1961. Production ended in 1983, but 5,400 older models were converted to the M60A3 variant ending in 1990.

M60 7.62 mm Machine Gun

The M60 Machine Gun has been the US Army's general purpose machine gun since 1950. It fires the standard NATO 7.62 mm round and is used as a general support crew- served weapon. It has a removable barrel which can be easily changed to prevent overheating. The weapon has an integral, folding bipod and can also be mounted on a folding tripod.

This hand carried weapon can be mastered in a reasonable time.

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 16, 1999.

Change that! I intended to say

"I don't believe a couple of weekends drill with this tank will enable a novice crew to operate it effectively."

-- Tom Carey (tomcarey@mindspring.com), November 16, 1999.

Army,

Thanks for your report. Don't let those polly-trolls rattle you.

I think I know your base...SW Missouri... that would put you in a position for either Kansas City or St. Louis most likely. With oil and fuel going into short supply, I suspect that they won't ship you too far away.

Can you tell us if they're storing much fuel? That might be a good tip off as to your assignment. If Kansas City, then you're a hop and a jump away and you won't need as much fuel. I had heard indications a few months ago that some NG units would be assigned to guard oil refineries/installations as well as key utility sites. Don't know how true that is for the utilities but one oil person indicated the Fed Emergency People had briefed them that this might be done if they felt the installations might be threatened.

Keep us posted, will you??? You're posts are VERY IMPORTANT!

-- R.C. (racambab@mailcity.com), November 16, 1999.

Army,

Thanks for your report. Don't let those polly-trolls rattle you...

I think I know your base...SW Missouri... that would put you in a position for either Kansas City or St. Louis most likely. With oil and fuel going into short supply, I suspect that they won't ship you too far away.

Can you tell us if they're storing much fuel? That might be a good tip off as to your assignment. If Kansas City, then you're a hop and a jump away and you won't need as much fuel. I had heard indications a few months ago that some NG units would be assigned to guard oil refineries/installations as well as key utility sites. Don't know how true that is for the utilities but one oil person indicated the Fed Emergency People had briefed them that this might be done if they felt the installations might be threatened.

Keep us posted, will you??? You're posts are VERY IMPORTANT!

-- R.C... (racambab@mailcity.com), November 16, 1999.

Most SMAJ's I have known were articulate people. They were capable of constructing a sentence that was both clear and syntactically correct. This person is a liar (IMO) and not a SMAJ (which is how one would have written it).

This is just another example of my contention that there are all sorts of people who would like to have your ear and opinion at this critical juncture.

This one happens to be a fifteen year old high school student (male) who wishes he could get the attention of his peers, but because he can't he will take pleasure in fooling those he can. Tomorrow he will be in class telling his friend how cool he is because he fooled so many people on this forum.

-- (...@.......), November 16, 1999.

PS , Army -

Take care of yourself. I want you to know that you're worth a hell of a lot more than you're paid( I have some military in my family...I know what you're all worth.)

-- doorbaby (tomG@heaven.com), November 16, 1999.

Teenager went to sign up for NG and wanted to do it immediately. For what it's worth, they won't take him till 1-2-00. Papers signed and he's to report 1-2-00 w/immediate training to take place in IL.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), November 16, 1999.

Well, Tom, it may be that they have more tanks than they have time. Looks like we're ALL running outta that commodity.

-- doorbaby (tomG@heaven.com), November 16, 1999.

@ and Cluarann: how do you know that about this guy? Or are you guessing?

And to @, I don't know about the SMAJ part (what does the J stand for?) but my husband was an NCO for a LOT of years and writes about like this guy does.

How many 15 yr old boys would even find a PASSING interest in this site? Not saying who it is one way or another, I am just wondering if ya'll have reason to know these things./

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 16, 1999.

...@...

When I was in, Sergeant Major was abbreviated SGM. If you'd like to refresh your memory check this link:

http://147.71.210.21/pcsm/ftbliss.htm

He sounds legit to me. What are your credentials?

-- cavscout (from@former.SGT), November 16, 1999.

Army NG,

The media stopped reporting on the gang activity. It became stale. This may be perhaps why the military preparations are intimidating. The gangs had some time back infiltrated the military and stole volatile weaponry. So they sit now, possibly still with these weapons or perhaps sold them to fringe cells from the Islamic faith, and quite obviously someone out there intends to at some point in history use those weapons.

So now a picture begins to form. A city such as L.A. or Chicago with too many gang members, military weapons, some have gone in league with foreign intelligences (An Illionis gang was busted for this) as terrorists.

You in the Guard aren't going to be hauling around grenade launchers to use on Ma and Pa, or on me, or your friends, nor on the folk in general in anyway.

It's just been a quiet media so you've lost touch with how volatile some of the major cities are and could quite possibly require uglier weaponry. Some of the street gangs will probably be acting as terrorists under the guidance of middle eastern intelligence.

So calm down. It's okay. You're not going to be asked to do dasterdly things to the American people.

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 16, 1999.

Just the fact that he writes in all caps tells me something.

-- (not@now.com), November 16, 1999.

ARMY NG@WHAT.ISHAPPENING

I believe you to be a troll and one purporting to be that which you are not, ie. a Senior NonCommissioned Officer and a Sergeant Major. I believe this not only because I know that one of the requirements to become a SGM is an AA degree that does not show in your writing, but because the weapons that you refer to are not considered "heavy weapons" in military circles. They are the basic arms that "any" Combat Service Support unit would be expected to have in it's vault for it's own Headquarters element's defensive protection. I am also curious as to why your unit would be being issued the M60 7.62 mm machine gun and the M249 5.56 mm "SAW" (Squad Automatic Weapon) that is the replacement for the M60 at the same time. Most units are turning in their M60s for upgrade to the M249. The grenade launcher that I must assume you are referring to would be the M203 40mm single shot attachment to the M16A1. Again, all of these weapons are simply the most basic ones allocated to every unit in the US Army, Transportation units included.

As an actual member of the Army National Guard and having been in the position of going into a hostile situation on American soil in South Central L.A. I would appreciate your not antagonizing an already bad situation with bullshit.

-- SSG Ken LaVine "Hattie's Old Man" (klavine@tco.net), November 16, 1999.

Ken,

they might be referring to an M-93 (i think) which is a repeating 30mm grenade launcher. Min range 75 metres (due to shrapnel) and I forget the max range. cycles at about 20-30 per min (if I recall correctly) One of my fraternal buddies is RA attached to a Reserve unit, makes it back to town once or twice a year was talking this weapon 2 years ago. Hand carried. He thought it was the cats **** because it put minimum Arty on a Hummer.

Night train

-- jes an interested ol footballer (nighttr@in.lane), November 16, 1999.

Ken,

You raise interesting points. I also wondered about having both SAW's and 60's in the same unit. OTOH, I knew a lot of old salty NCO's that were good soldiers but couldn't spell for shit. "Army" could have had a hard day at work and doesn't really care about grammar, syntax, etc. Either way, anyone who posts fraudulently here will be exposed eventually. I've been unjustly branded with the hideous "TROLL" label once or twice, so I'm not so fast to slap it on others. BTW, you seem to be the real deal; what have your training experiences been like lately, if you wouldn't mind sharing? Anything unusual? I realize you may be reluctant to reveal much since you (presumably) used your real name, but it would be interesting for the rest of us to know what the NG is doing in So. Cal. Thanks ahead of time for any input.

-- cavscout (cavscout@fix.net), November 16, 1999.

Hey Army, I am in Springfield, MO. Are you talking about the reserve station here in good ole' Springfield. I am very interested in talking with you! I have been trying to keep an eye out for anyone from around here to communicate with that is on this board and you are the first one. The e-mail address is real. Please drop me a line. Thanx

-- pizzaman (cjwarner@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

Personally, I want the information-however it may be worded. Picking apart a statement on the basis of improper use of grammar and the occasional mispelt word is elitist, condescending and pretty f**king petty. Let the one who has never hit a wrong key or held down a key a little too long or even just forgotten how to spell a word cast the first stone. Anybody? I thought not.

While we're at it, alienating serving members of the military is really intelligent. If Y2k (or other upcoming events) turn out to be as bad as we think, it makes a lot of sense to annoy the people that may have to put their conscience and patriotism-not mention their lives, on the line for us.

-- Greg Lawrence (greg@speakeasy.org), November 16, 1999.

I believe there is a National Guard post in Nevada,Mo. also.

-- Maggie (aaa@aaa.com), November 16, 1999.

I live in Idaho near Orofino and we have a NG armory up the road from me. Moved here from CA 5 months ago and the NG had two APC's and today they still only have two APC's no guns on the top. All is quiet on the Idaho front. I did get an interesting e-mail about the Marines and the urban training they have been doing. E-mail me for it. Gun confiscation looks to be looming??

Mike H

-- Snipe Hunter (SnipeUNblu@aol.com), November 16, 1999.

Weapons: Individual units could probably be issued any kind of weapon desired if none of these weapons were on their T/E (Table of Equipment). As for M60s vs. SAWs, it seems to me that most of the SAWs would already be issued to units that rated them. All of those M- 60s that were "replaced" would now be "excess", so if they wanted to issue MG's to any unit that didn't rate them, it would be logical to pull these out of "storage" for distribution.

Here's the Missouri NG link: not too informative, but worth a look http://www.mong.org/moarng.html

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 16, 1999.

Hey Night train! Valid point on the grenade launcher, but it's not the m-93, its Nomenclature is the MK (Mark)-19 40mm Automatic Grenade launcher. Based loosely on the browning M-2 .50 cal 'Ma Deuce', it has a max effective range of 1800-2000 meters. Considered actually by NATO to be a 'Heavy Machine Gun', with a cyclical rate of up to 700 rounds per minute. Weighs in @ 42 lbs unloaded, the bolt alone weighs in at a whopping 27 lbs!! It generates almost 700 foot-lbs of recoil and is not easy to learn in a 'weekend' I worked with it almost to exclusivity of other systems for two years active army. It is most definately not for the novice, if this is what the Guard was issued. But I will say this:boy-howdy is it accurate and fun to 'play' with! Of all the things I miss from the Army, I think I miss my MK-19 the most....

-- Billy Boy (Rakkasn@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

I am new to this forum, so excuse me if I'm out of line with this question: What is the meaning of all the roadside message boards in front of the NG Armorys, and The Church Of God headquarters, that read: Total Military Callup, Nov. 11-16, also I was in the army in the mid 60s, and I had a platoon Sgt whom couldn't even write his name, or read a map!. He was not by himself, for top couldn't read either. They recieved their rank during WW2, and Korea. I guess that it is whole new ballgame now, but the question is, does education make a better fighting man?. Take away the computerized weapons systems, what will you have?. Thanks, Walter.

-- Walter Bright (relief@coastalnet.com), November 16, 1999.

Army:

As a women with kids and no family in the military or reserves this info concerns me. In your honest opinon what does your gut feeling tell you about this training.. Excuss my ignorance, I am here to learn and protect my family for what events could or will happen( I need honest answers).. I would appreciate if you could e-mail me, I have additional questions.. Thanks Cassie

-- cassandra (american_storm@usa.net), November 16, 1999.

Paula,

"So calm down. It's okay. You're not going to be asked to do dasterdly things to the American people."

-- Paula (chowbabe@pacbell.net), November 16, 1999.

I agree. We are in this together. Whatever happens! It is getting weird out there tho.

-- Mark Hillyard (foster@inreach.com), November 16, 1999.

Guess some people have forgotten what happened at Kent State.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 16, 1999.

Preparing

Almost 18 yo son relayed to me last evening. It's a friend of his (not one of the ones I especially like) that's 19 and wants something cleared off his record, which I guess the sign-up is going to clear this off his record.

Now, any advice re: my son that's going to turn 18 in just over a month. Draft, etc. is it wise for him to sign up if such thing as a draft is announced so he could get placement in a specific branch of the service? Do you even wait to hear that they're drafting? Hard being a mother w/things developing and son turning the wrong age at the wrong time. So many memories but could use advice, as he's been asking and I don't have the answers.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), November 16, 1999.

cluarann: All he is really required to do once he is 18 is register for the Selective Service. Many young men do not even do that (my brother, who is now 27, "forgot".....) My husband joined the regular Army at the age of 17 in 1985. Dropped out of HS but they made him get his GED later. I really doubt there will be a draft anytime soon. This country tends to use the Reserves more often now (Desert Storm comes to mind) than they did in the past (Vietnam comes to mind, in which most reservists weren't called up, b/c LBJ didn't want to take them away from their families.)

I agree about the spelling, grammar, etc. Pick apart the weapons info all you want, but hey, I know supposedly VERY educated people who can't write to save their lives (my ultra-educated father-in-law comes to mind immediately). And like I said, the hubby was an NCO and still writes about exactly like this guy.

cluarann: so you are saying that you KNOW that this guy is a friend of your son's and is just making this stuff up?

Too weird......hard to know if anything is true w/out some verification either way...

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 16, 1999.

Impala, As one who lived through the anti-war demonstrations/chaos of that time, put Kent State in context. Intentional or accidental, the shootings at Kent State were unique. The NG doesn't go around shooting Americans or training to do so. It's a wonder something like that didn't happen earlier given all the tension and chaos that had been going on with the campus demonstrations for so long. It's the demonstrators and the organizers who provoked the situation and share most of the blame.

And think about this, after Kent State... the demonstrations ended... the kids went back to class and the organizers could not get any more mileage out of the "protest movement". I think the shooting served to wake everyone up to the fact that life is serious and the demonstration movement was destructive... even to the point of people dying. Suddenly, everyone realized "This ain't worth it!" Phil

-- PatrickHenry7 (patrickhenry7@hotmail.com), November 16, 1999.

Let me get this right. Every grunt in the US military machine including the Guard and cadets knows for a fact that they are going to be deployed in civil situations with heavy anti-personnel weapons.

And not ONE of them has the guts to go to a broadcast medium and put their name, rank and serial number behind their assertions?

Now that WOULD be scarey. If it were true. Prove me wrong.

-- Colin MacDonald (roborogerborg@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

claurann

Don't worry about the Selective Service Monster coming to grab your son. My Mother has been (or better yet was the head of the Selective Service Board for the state of New Hampshire for the past ten years +/-. Mom and the rest of her dafting buddies (sic.) were recently disbanded when congress decided to curtail the draft as cost-preventative measure

Now don't get me wrong, but people still have to register, its just that the mechanisms are no longer in place to quickly draft the required 250000 men up that the S.S. were ready and supposed to be able to deliver to Uncle Sugar. My advice on getting you boy in the service is have him wait 6 monthes to a year. Find out who the next Prez will be. I'm saying this as a ten + year vet who only got out this past April. Don't send your boy out to the service under the current "wag the dog" climate pervasive in both the armed services and the white house.

Just my $.02

-- Billy-Boy (Rakkasan@yahoo.com), November 16, 1999.

Hello Patrick Henry7:

Thanks for that comment. I agree with you. I guess what I am saying is that if the NG, Marines, Army, or 'whoever' is deployed, I expect to see a normal distribution of outcomes. If you say that the chaos of the anti-war movement was a unique event, then I say that any chaos due to y2k will also be a unique event on a much larger scale. If you say that you're surprised that it didn't happen earlier, then I agree too; that the probability of a Kent State-type shooting was at the lower end of the distribution curve. I think someone actually posted this (indirectly) the other day. It was the church pastor in Florida who had to deal with the Army and NG after a hurricane. Some of the teams were very helpful, and others caused alot of problems such as theft, and maybe a murder, if I remember correctly. One last thing, if you say that the NG isn't training for something like "crowd control", I can assure that the Marines are. That's why they are having these "urban warfare practices" all around the country. When I was in (83-87) we used to practice at a mock-up called "combat town". Guess that's not good enough these days.

Colin McDonald: Any soldier who refuses an order is punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). In a more informal context, any soldier who doesn't 'toe' the official position will be in for some harrassment at best and punishment at worst. IMHO, anyone would be a fool to give their personal details on the net.

PS I've got a juicy NG story, but I'll save it for another day.

-- impala (impala@wild.com), November 16, 1999.

Billy-Boy Thanks much, your input makes complete sense and will relay to son.

Preparing Info from my son is just this. His friend is 19 years old and wanted to get rid of something on his criminal record. They both went to the NG sign-up office together, so my son was w/him when this happened. The 19 yo wanted to go immediately after signing up, but the NG office said he's to report 1-2-00 and will be sent for training somewhere in IL. Can't tell you what bearing this has on anything just some input.

-- claurann (claurann@aol.com), November 16, 1999.

For what it's worth...My uncle retired a Colonel a few years back, after having served his entire life in the armed forces. The final few years were as a Colonel in the Reserves.

He and his wife are preparing for Y2K. He thinks there will be severe problems, and is especially concerned with how the public will react. According to him, the army is being prepared, and the reserves will be called out only if things get back...they aren't specifically training for the situation at this time. He fully expects looting and rioting. I believe what ARMY says. I believe the gov is preparing for this and this is all part of that. (wha?)

-- kritter (kritter@adelphia.net), November 16, 1999.

I know this is second hand, blah blah blah, but I have a pall who's an ex-marine. He still has contacts in the corps. Recently he was talking with a division level officer in SoCal.This officer told him that troops in his division had been practicing closing freeway off ramps in SoCal.They were doing so in full NBC ( nuclear,biological, chemical) gear.

-- Ralph Kramden (And@AwayWeGO.com), November 16, 1999.

Oh, OK Cluane, I thought you were saying you knew who the original poster of this thread was! Sorry, I were confoozed!

I am going HOME early today....I need to rest.

-- preparing (preparing@home.com), November 16, 1999.

WELL for what it is worth ,some might know me and I don't know if this poster is one I know.. And for the one's that think this is not real well it is . I don't know if things are going to get bad. I don't know if we will have to do things that are unspeakable. But I will tell you this we have the wep's now and we never had them before. As the m-60 go's I ment 60's as in MG . I look at these post and I think to my self.. What are some of them talking about. You know it is scary even if you are a combat solider. Do we think that we will be killing american people no we don't.. but do we think that they, the gov. is scared . YES... There are a lot of good poster's here and they are tring to tell you what they see and hear.That does not mean that we/they are always right.... But if you listen to what they have to say you might be shocked at what you can learn.... Thank's to all for standing up for me and we as it go's... I for one hope that nothing happen's but I feel that we/I/ all are not being told the truth... For what ever reason I do not no It might be out of fear . It might be from fear of the law. It might be from not noing.. who knows but what I do know is that THERE IS GOING TO BE A VERY BIG CHANGE IN WHAT ALL OF US SEE. GOOD OR BAD DON'T KNOW.. JUST TRYING TO GIVE INFO ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN.

-- (ARMY NG@WHAT.ISHAPPING), November 16, 1999.

On Monday morning I saw a piece on CNN concerning the National Guard being called out in California for the end of the year. I watched CNN on and off for the remainder of the day but the peice did not air again. I came to the forum thinking there would be talk of others seeing it but so far, nothing. I think the segment was squashed.

-- L. Arnold (adahi@muhlon.com), November 16, 1999.

ARMY NG, I agree with you: We're not being told the truth. And there's going to be a VERY BIG CHANGE.

Thanks for the post. This one post is worth more than all the press releases, spin jobs, con jobs, happy faces in front, tanks in back - all of their smoke and mirrors put together.

If you post again, I'll be looking for it.

-- doorbaby (tomG@heaven.com), November 16, 1999.

Army NG, Thanks for posting your info. Just to let you know, I have a friend in NG. He says they are preparing big time here. Won't go into details but I definately will read your posts in you continue. Thanks.

-- More Dinty Moore (dac@ccrtc.com), November 16, 1999.

Thanks NG keep us posted on anything of importance!!!

-- prepared (prepared@home.com), November 16, 1999.

For what it's worth. I know a young man who is in the National Guard here in California. When I asked he told me that he has been issued and is training with an M60 and that they are using rubber bullets. I got the impression that they will be deployed with rubber bullets.

When I asked he said his unit would be going to the bay area, San Francisco, during the roll over.

I couldn't get much more info than that out of him. When I asked what his superiors were expecting he told me that he could tell me but then he'd have to kill me. We had a good laugh.

sdb

-- S. David Bays (SDBAYS@prodigy.net), November 17, 1999.

L.Arnold - you asked about the CNN piece about Nat. Guard in Calif. See these threads (and others in the Military catagory):

City of San Francisco Is Ready for New Years Eve With: Fuel, Generators, Trucks, C130's, Blackhawks, Chinooks, Personnel, Shelters and Armories...

National Guard to be called out in DC for New Years

California: National Guard (Anecdotal Comments)

NG will be out in CA

link to CNN story- California cops, National Guard prepare for millennium trouble

Strong NG presence in Baltimore for rollover

DoD Year 2000 (Y2K) Support to Civil Authorities (PDF)

Funny.... I don't recall this much prep for previous 3-day storms. Guess my memory is slipping... probably a bad chip.

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 17, 1999.

Add another one: Nevada Calls out National Guard

-- Linda (lwmb@psln.com), November 17, 1999.

I was an economics and political science double major in college. The Role of Public Policy has always fascinated me. As I look at Y2K, I see it as the greatest public policy challenge ever encountered.

It seems to me, FWIW, that the government is having a VERY difficult time right now (and has all along) with formulating a clear policy on Y2K. I don't believe that it's a monster conspiracy, but rather, alot of people just trying to do the best they can. Unfortunately, for civil servants, the best just doesn't cut it. (Apologies and no offense to the civil servants out there).

Look at the record: All along, the White House has had as a policy to downplay the significance of Y2K - Thus the BITR analogy.

The Red Cross didn't quite get this message however, did they? They started distributing Y2K prep pamphlets early on. It was in writing, then. So then the Whitehouse has to at least come that far, and starts talking about long weekends.

The Senate and House certainly didn't initially play along with this. Look at the early stuff that came out from their reports! Much of it looked "doomerish".

The CIA released all kinds of info to its employees about having cash and expecting social unrest.

The NRC has waffled time and again.

Where has it all gone, then, as a public policy? Well the pressure to downplay publicly has seemingly won out. VERY CAREFUL scrutiny of the Senate 100 day report has to be undertaken before some of the true problems are realized.

It would appear that public policy has settled on this:

Keep the public calm. Hope for the best. As problems arise, attempt to keep them quiet, if they can't be, blame it on something else (terrorism, local gov't, public panic, etc.) Prepare all agencies for worst case outcomes - esp the military. But keep it extremely quiet to forstall panic.

At this point it is probably the best they can do! As a suburban dweller, I can tell you that the NG and military BETTER be preparing for the worst, because when the SHTF, they better be ready!

Listen, in July of 98, the president could have made a speech: "challenge ahead....ingenuity of the american people....unknown results....plan together and prepare....not unlike the settlers crossing the plains in covered wagons.....always prepared.....store one month's supplies....etc."

I know I would feel much more comfortable right now if ALL my neighbors had a month's food and water on hand. Would that be enough? I don't know, but it's one additional month before they knock on my door!

Butr guess what, everybody, he didn't make that speech. Why? maybe he's a DGI, maybe a DWGI. Maybe they did all kinds of modeling, and realized for other reasons that it would create too much unstability, when there was still a chance that things would come out fine. Was it to usher in the NWO??? I seriously doubt it. Just a bunch of people doing the best they can, with the info they had. Reasonable people can have differing opinions, afterall, right?

And, for the record, based on the info at my disposal, I reasonably disagree with the public policy as it has evolved.

At this point there's not much more they can do.

-- Duke 1983 (Duke1983@aol.com), November 17, 1999.

Dear Army, guess were all here because we are scared too. Just want to say that many of us appreciate the effort and sacrafice that you will be making, and want to express appreciation to you. You have a tough job guy. Take care.

-- Suzy (suzy@nowhere.home), November 19, 1999.

To our fellow GI's who are actual GI's: you probably should taper off on detailed public reporting of any military preps you see, IMHO. I'm very interested in that angle, too. But it's game time and there ARE people who would like very much too kill large numbers of us and terrify the rest. Loose lips really can sink ships. Not the mention the sling you'd be in if it got traced back to you.

I'm not trying for censorship here, everyone. Trying to defend the Defenders. I hope our .mil colleagues will continue to participate, and I hope they can find support among us when THEY get worried.

Secrecy is a weird thing for an open society in a dangerous world.

No good answers.

-- Lewis (aslanshow@yahoo.com), November 19, 1999.